Huckabee: Gays Haven't Crossed Civil Rights Violence Threshold

Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee was on The View Tuesday talking about same-sex marriage and declaring that gay rights are not civil rights because gays have not had violence inflicted upon them like Blacks have.

HuckabeeSaid: "People who are homosexuals should have every right in terms of their civil rights, to be employed, to do anything they want. But that's not really the issue. I know you talked about it and I think you got into it a little bit early on. But when we're talking about a redefinition of an institution, that's different than individual civil rights. We're never going to convince each other...But here is the difference. Bull Connor was hosing people down in the streets of Alabama. John Lewis got his skull cracked on the Selma bridge."

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[postman606]

I love it when one of these NeoCon, Bible-Thumpers wakes up and finds out they have a gay son or daughter. That's when their whole belief system knocks them on their a@s.

[slaxx]

i think it's just their way of denying those urges they have.

[kjstjohn]

I belong to a church that accepts gays. And by "accepts" I mean we hired a gay associate pastor. A whole bunch of our members are the parents you reference--Southern Baptists who got knocked on their @ss when their kid turned out gay. You know what? Not one of them thinks it was a bad thing to get knocked down. Now THAT is grace.

[hyjanks]

I think Huck desperately needs to read something besides the Bible to, you know, get a little more information about religions in general.
I'd suggest a reading of any good book on comparative religion. In such a book he will find that since the dawn of recorded history there have been at least 10,000 gods and nearly as many religions.
Maybe--just maybe--after seeing this fact for himself, he'll agree that his religion is not the only one out there, even now. And if he comes to that conclusion, maybe he'll entertain the thought that the entire universe shouldn't abide by the beliefs of HIS particular god.
Then again, forget I even wrote this comment . . .

[kjstjohn]

I love The World's Religions by Huston Smith. I don't remember or not if that is the book where I read about a South American(?) tribe that identified homosexual boys in their childhood and trained them to be astronomer priests.

[looseisnotlose]

I don't think that tactic would get much mileage with Huckabee, since the Bible acknowledges those other religions. Humans have been making up religions since the beginning, that understanding is implicit in the first two commandments. In a way, the Bible condemns religiousity, anyway.

WHAAT? How can a religious text condemn religiousity? There's a consistent theme (even in the old testament) of the problem of clinging to religious traditions in the absence of true love and for your creator and your fellow man. This even applied to many of the traditions set up _in the Bible itself_.

Point is, you're not going to back anyone down off their choice by pointing out that they have a choice. That only works on people who grew up into a system without really questioning it. You think you're going to show Huck a book on comparative religion and he'll shrug his shoulders and say "Shucks, these guys believe in stuff too. What should I do with myself now?" He's a licensed minister. He's taken classes on on comparative religion, as most of them do.

If you want to back him off a position, you should demonstrate that it is hurting people. I wouldn't bother throwing random religions at him in hopes of dislodging the one he used to professionally espouse.

[KeepMeLearning]

It is a civil rights issue for EVERYONE when religion dictates politics. That is why our Constitution specifically outlines the separation of church and state. These are the ideals upon which our country was founded, and Prop 8 violates this tenet.

If Prop 8 is not removed, civil rights for everyone are at risk.

[slaxx]

the CA supreme court ruled today to hear oppositions to prop. 8. keep your fingers crossed.

[hardlyhikin]

Redefinition of an institution?

Didn't we change the institution of marriage when we allowed interracial marriages?
Didn't we change the institution of marriage when we stopped treating women as chattel (i.e. as the property of men)?
Didn't we change the institution of marriage when we started marrying for love and not for property and social status?
Didn't we change the institution of marriage when we stop allowing polygamy?

The institution of marriage has changed (and evolved, Mike) throughout our history. Give it up. In this more enlightened age gays are going to have all the rights that you and I are entitled to.

[luvobama]

Exactly. What happened to fidelity and staying married for life? What are the statistics on having affairs? What is the divorce rate? I would think these pretenders would be doing something about those two little problems and make my marriage safe.

[noseysniper]

It was redifining marriage when interracial marriage WASN'T allowed. Whites didn't invent marriage.

[looseisnotlose]

Like noseysniper said, BARRING interracial marriage was the real change. Interracial marriage has been going on for all of recorded history. People have married for love for thousands of years, and people can still marry for property or social status today.

I don't really care what happens with this California thing, as long as the government does not in any way try to codify "love" into the legal system. That will be a dark day when we rely on the government to define what love is.

So, gay marriage advocates, please don't ask the government to recognize your love. Ask them to recognize your social contract. Gay marriage opponents, don't rely on government to set the standard as to what a marriage is. You'll be delivering your children and grandchildren into a nightmare.

[onthelam84]

Violence threshold? Hate crimes against gays happen all the time - unless they're reported as hate crimes by the police they go unregistered to the Feds (and most cops don't report them as such). I was lucky - when I had my nose broken and numerous ribs broken by an angry mob of gaybashers for just walking down the street - the police officers who found me blacked out, face down on the pavement called it for what it was, a hate crime. But apparently more people need to be beaten up WITH acknowledgement before they begin to consider us equals - or maybe he's hoping it just happens more often....

[valkyrie607]

It bears repeating...

"Don't compare! ALL suffering is intolerable."

--Elie Weisel

[kjstjohn]

THAT is good.

[luvobama]

I love and admire that man!!

[shrinkess]

I heard him speak and have read some of his books. What a hero!

[Nikola Tesla]

We dismiss the divide between the Gay community and the Fundamentalist Christians, including the Black church, at our peril.

The most vulnerable Americans are the Gay African Americans who need the Gay community to stand up for them and denounce all bigotry, including that practiced by minorities against their own.

[postman606]

I'm reading another thread where Huckabee says he envies Sarah Palin and he has written a book named "Do The Right Thing". I kid you not, now the man wants to be black and a women.

[slaxx]

huck wants to be a celebrity. next he wil tell us that he's the messiah.

[i approve this message]

he wants the paparazzi to take pictures of him when he's lounging by the pool...

[hardlyhikin]

When did having one's skull cracked become the basis for a civil rights claim?

Seems to me if a group or class of people are being denied the same rights the rest of us enjoy then that group is having their civil rights denied. What part of "civil rights being denied" doesn't Governor Huckabee understand?

Religious groups may not approve of people who cheat on their spouses but they don't deny them the right to marry. They may feel that the purpose of marriage is to procreate but they don't annul the marriages of couples who can't, won't or don't create children. Racists may feel that it's wrong for interracial couples to marry but we long ago decided that they don't have the right to impose that belief on those couples.

No church should be required to marry any couple they disapprove of on religious grounds but that doesn't mean those couples shouldn't be able to marry at some other church or some other legal venue that has no ethical problem with marrying them.

And just for the record, Mike, gays have been getting their skulls bashed for their sexual orientation for a long time, it's only been a relatively few years since that has been a socially unacceptable response to homosexuality.

[RationalityPlease]

It depends on where you live--unfortunately hate crimes against LGBTQ folk are STILL "socially acceptable" responses in many quarters of our fair nation. And while law enforcement has come a long long way in many areas of the country, in MANY places, good luck if you think the police or local sheriff will help. They may be the ones beating you.

[slaxx]

the california supreme court has ruled to hear oppositions to prop. 8.

yey...duh...

[kjstjohn]

When did that happen?

[i approve this message]

today

[Topfeeder]

The religious right is trying to do the same thing with gay rights as they did with reproductive rights, make it about God and stymie the intellectual and factual debate. Stall and meanwhile poise the Christians to oppose others that don't share their views, ie., traditional Christian family values. If you don't agree with them you are a degenerate and ungodly. Essentially, they are creating a culture war and they believe they will win because they are on the side of God.

The Republicans used a similar tactic with the Iraq War. If you didn't agree with it you were unpatriotic.

[mounthood]

Myself, I believe in equal rights for everybody except evangelicals.

[luvobama]

I believe in equal rights for everybody except those who spit in public. If I were queen that bad habit would be punishable by 10 years hard labor.

[MechaMike]

Gays have faced a lot of persecution in America and abroad. No its not exactly like African American Civil rights movement of course but it is A civil rights movement.

In colonial America, gay men were castrated if they were found to be gay and lesbian women had some of the cartilage removed from their noses.

Heck some gays along with "witches" were burned at the stake.

Until recently gay sex was illegal and people could be fired for being gay (in many states they still can be).

When homosexuality was considered a mental disorder, many gays were institutionalized and some received electro-shock therapy and others were lobotomized.

There have been hate crimes where people have been killed just for being gay (Matthew Shephard, Lawrence King).

During the Holocaust at least 50,000 gays were rounded up and put in concentration camps and at least 10,000 were executed.

In many Middle Eastern and African countries, gays can be imprisoned and executed just for being gay.

You can use google images and see pictures of gay teen males in Iran hanging dead from nooses.

How dare people say that gays haven't been persecuted or that their struggle is not a civil rights struggle.

[Nikola Tesla]

Unlike the AAs civil rights struggle, prejudice and violence against gays is universal.

[Madmac]

Is this the same as the Commander in Chief threshold?

[MizzJada]

"I don't know any gays who are arguing that it IS. It's not the SAME, that is true, and that is obvious. The lynchings and police actions and legal racism and ghetto-ization and slavery did not happen to the homosexual community, or to any other community, the way it did to the black community. Homosexuals always had the option to "hide" who they were, and although I feel this forced denial of the self is a very potent kind of oppression, I'm not going to pretend like it's equivilant to the black struggle. "

Perhaps you should read back though the responses. .There are plenty of gays here alone who feel its the same thing.. You won't even have to go back 5 pages to see that.. They are arguing it here and all over TV and its not right.. You're turning people off making that claim.. I came to this board today merely to offer some advice and I am so pissed at the ignorance and arrogance up in here that I now hope gays never have the right to marry... I hope it eventually gets shot down in every state.. When you stop the ignorant arrogance maybe I'll change my mind..

[ContraEgoiste]

"I came to this board today merely to offer some advice..."

Suuure you did sweetie.

(shhhh, should sombody tell him the jig is up??)

[Nikola Tesla]

I think she is "concerned".

[antaeus]

I thought Dobson laid you all off. Are you here working for free?

[postman606]

It took you a couple of hours posting on a blog to come to the such an epiphany. Yeah, right.

[Nikola Tesla]

Oh boo hoo!

[GG1983]

Congressman John Lewis, mentioned by Mr. Huckabee, said this, "the government's exclusion of our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters from civil marriage officially degrades them and their families...I have fought too hard and too long against discrimination based on race and color not to stand up against discrimination based on sexual orientation."

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Dr. ML KIng, Jr.

There are many gay and lesbian African Americans and there were many gay members of the African American Civil Rights Movement. Inequality hurts us all. We cannot - must not - let the forces of oppression divide those of us who fight for freedom, equality and all of our civil rights.

http://quasisuspectclass.wordpress.com/

[luvobama]

Nicely stated. thank you.

[Nikola Tesla]

Is he reta_rded?

Gay men are targeted everyday everywhere around the world.

Most places never investigate their deaths once they have determined that they are gay.

[noseysniper]

lol Right.

[Nikola Tesla]

This is you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissocial_personality_disorder#ICD-10_Criteria_for_Dissocial_Personality_Disorder

[Nikola Tesla]

More of your kind of fun:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-493570/Gays-tortured-hanged-says-Iranian-minister-meeting-British-MPs.html

[klmebane]

do u not believe that gay people are targeted every day? i don't understand your response... there are many things that don't get talked about in this country because of our obsession with ourselves. our celebrities sex lives are more interesting than human rights violations around the world. just because you haven't heard about a problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist. it just means you haven't looked hard enough for the information.

[RationalityPlease]

And lesbians, and bisexuals, and transgender and queer and questioning folk, and, lots of straight people mistaken for being LBGTQ....