Huckabee: Gays Haven't Crossed Civil Rights Violence Threshold

Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee was on The View Tuesday talking about same-sex marriage and declaring that gay rights are not civil rights because gays have not had violence inflicted upon them like Blacks have.

HuckabeeSaid: "People who are homosexuals should have every right in terms of their civil rights, to be employed, to do anything they want. But that's not really the issue. I know you talked about it and I think you got into it a little bit early on. But when we're talking about a redefinition of an institution, that's different than individual civil rights. We're never going to convince each other...But here is the difference. Bull Connor was hosing people down in the streets of Alabama. John Lewis got his skull cracked on the Selma bridge."

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[INALdem]

Everything about Mike Huckabee makes me sick to my stomach.

[TheBlackCat]

There are some pretty angry people on here harping that the gay struggle is not equal to the black struggle.

I don't know any gays who are arguing that it IS. It's not the SAME, that is true, and that is obvious. The lynchings and police actions and legal racism and ghetto-ization and slavery did not happen to the homosexual community, or to any other community, the way it did to the black community. Homosexuals always had the option to "hide" who they were, and although I feel this forced denial of the self is a very potent kind of oppression, I'm not going to pretend like it's equivilant to the black struggle.

Look, in the "who suffered the most in America" contest, blacks and Native Americans win. No one is trying to take that away from them, no one is trying to minimize what they have gone through and what they continue to go through.

But the fact that blacks have had it harder that doesn't mean the gay struggle DOESN'T MATTER, or that it's not still a struggle for civil rights. We don't stop prosecuting rape because murder exists. We don't stop fighting asthma because cancer exists. And we don't say mistreatment of gays is okay because blacks have been treated worse.

[ContraEgoiste]

Bingo. and thank you.

I think that there is a Rovian movement instigated by the cons to use this issue to drive a wedge between the cohesivness we have achieved with this election.

[kjstjohn]

Spot on. I think some white Repubs are posing as black women to stir it up with gay posters.

[TheBlackCat]

I think you are absolutely correct, that the Republicans are feeding the fires of "gays vs blacks" in a classic divide and conquer strategy. Let's not let them win!!!

[TheBlackCat]

{{sorry if this is a double post}}

I think you are absolutely correct. I think this whole "gays vs blacks" thing is a very Rovian Republican "divide and conquer" strategy, and I really hope that our side does not fall for it!

[slaxx]

THANK YOU. i think you make too much sense for some people on here.

[i approve this message]

well said.

[mercury613]

Finally, some well-spoken common sense about this issue. Thank you.

[NancyinBalto]

I just sent a comment to Huckabee via his website to let him know how I feel about his ignorance and bigotry. Please join in the fun. You know he won't be reading the Huffington Post today.

www.mikehuckabee.com

[AlligatorShuz]

Huckbee is entitled to his opinions. His comments were not bigotry or ignorance! You should ask Rev. Joseph Lowery, Congressman John Lewis, Rev. Jessie Jackson and many others from the TRUE CIVIL RIGHTS STRUGGLE WHAT TRUE BIGOTRY IS....

[Nikola Tesla]

When an openly gay man gets elected president you can make that claim.

[steamboat]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha.....Mos­t of those folks you mentioned are homophobic.

[kathy001]

Just another justification for the bigotry. It's not as bad as it was for Blacks. It's not as bad as it was for Native Americans. Competitive bigotry. How original.

[slaxx]

actually i think i recall john lewis calling not giving gays and their families equal rights bigotry.

do your homework.

[Excitedforfuture]

So how many years to women need to be in abusive marriages before they earn the right to equal pay?

And for that matter, there is still violence against black, jewish, hispanic people. When is that enough? Since when did being beaten and violated serve as the measure of when someone deserves their civil rights?

[adamsmith3]

I think that one can compare gay rights in general to black civil rights. But, specifically, comparing the fight for a term, marriage (since civil unions provide all the state benefits, it's fighting for a term at this point), to black civil rights is a joke and an insult to the black civil rights movement (from slavery, to voting, to desegregation, to interracial marriage).

[ContraEgoiste]

Seems that this is the new marching orders of the right wing brown shirts, to inject divisivness in this issue in either an attempt to gain the favor of minorities or just cause havoc. Same as their CHAOS thing back in the primaries.

a) No one on the left is accusing the black population of being their fault. This is something that the right is doing to seek divisivness.

b) Both the Civil rights movement and the gay movemets are about equal rights, as were the women's movement, etc.

The fact that one group was more trampled and abused that the other doesn't change the fact that both are fighting/fought for equality.

[luvobama]

All of you tr@lls, see the above post. I don't see where there is anything left to argue about.

[slaxx]

civil unions do not provide the same benefits as marriage; often times they are unenforceable. this alone is the only reason why gays want the word "marriage.­" as long as they provide the same rights and are not seperate an unequal, gays could care less what you call it. plus civil unions give no federal rights.

and you're missing the point when you compare the gay civil rights movement and the black civil rights to see who had it worse.

[lescargot]

If it is the word, give them the word.
Fight to make cicvil unions the same as marriage, in terms of benefits, federal rights, all you ask for. Take the weapon away from them.

[Nikola Tesla]

The fact that you are insulted speaks volumes.

[postman606]

The comparison of any group of people battling for basic rights is valid, and once again gays are simply using the template of the civil rights movement to advance there cause. It has been said here, by many, that NOBODY is comparing how gays suffered in comparison to blacks. You and a few other posters keep missing that point.

[luvobama]

Willfully missing the point.

[kathy001]

What was the boy's name who was tied to a fence and beaten to death because he was gay? How many people have to die or be physically harmed before we call it violence? And why does anyone have to suffer violence in order to qualify for their civil rights?

And Huckabee thumps his bible with the best of them. I'm sure Jesus is so proud of him.

[Excitedforfuture]

His name was Matthew Shepard and he was killed in Wyoming simply for being gay! At his funeral, Reverend Phelps and his followers carried signs that were derogatory and hurtful to Matthew's mother, who was there buring her child!

These people do not represent Christianity!

[Vkness]

Agree! Why do we have to suffer to be equal? Why does it have to get soooo bad in order for things to change for the good of the country? Why does someone have to experience violence before they are viable? Lame, Hucky really lame.

As soon as some one points out how much money can be made by letting everyone marry, the POVs will change. Cha Ching!

[JWoode]

His name was Matthew Shepard and he hung on that fence for 18 hours.

"Shepard suffered a fracture from the back of his head to the front of his right ear. He had severe brain stem damage, which affected his body's ability to regulate heart rate, body temperature and other vital signs. There were also about a dozen small lacerations around his head, face and neck. His injuries were deemed too severe for doctors to operate. Shepard never regained consciousness and remained on full life support."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard

[AlligatorShuz]

William"Bill" Bailey LYNCHED IN ATHENS, LOUISIANA
Wayne Douglas Bailey lynched in a Texakaner, Texas jail in 1980
Read the Book 100 years of lynchings.­...

[AlligatorShuz]

In November 1919, Magnolia, Columbia County, Arkansas a cheering WHITE MOB of several hundred burned a 50 year old BLACK MAN Jordan Jamerson ALIVE AT THE STAKE IN THE TOWN SQUARE....­.

[kathy001]

Way to go, you guys. I asked a question and JWoode answered it. This little competition to see who has suffered the most only diminishes the suffering of the victims you are so proudly beating upon your chests.

[christianmama4change]

Someone comment on this - both Clinton and Obama were against gay marriage and for gay civil unions. So maybe gay activists will also target protests at Obama? just curious.

[postman606]

It is one of the things he has stated I don't care for, but let me say this, I think he is intelligent enough and open-minded and can grow and have a change of heart and mind.

[ContraEgoiste]

Unfortunately leaders seeking to be elected have to say things they may not privately agree on to satisfy the close mindeness of religious folk.

That is why I'm all for the separation of church and state, and no religious test of elected officials. They can privately pursue it.

[luvobama]

This may come as a shock to you, but Obama had to play it safe to get elected. The religious in this country, dems and repubs have used the gays, g uns and god as political footballs for quite some time.

[DEADLEE]

So what is the magic number of gay people that need to be beaten or killed for Huckabee to believe we have crossed the violence threshold? One person- let me repeat!! ONE PERSON beat or killed is too many!! I have to laugh at Huckabee who thinks a lady who gets her cross thrown to the ground is more important than a gay persons life. Huckabee is a JOKE!!!!
MEASURE OF A MAN AINT A BULLET TO THE CHEST
BASHIN HOMOS -ANOTHA BROTHA DEAD
I'M THE CHOZEN-MOSES-I OPEN THE SEA OF RED
ORANGE YELLOW GREEN BLUE VIOLET
RED ORANGE YELLOW GREEN BLUE VIOLET

[DrEight]

"But when we're talking about a redefinition of an institution, that's different than individual civil rights." So we're talking about redefining an institution that discriminates against a specific group based solely on their sexual orientation. That is different from individual civil rights how? So when marriage was redefined to allow blacks to marry whites, that was different because blacks were beaten more? When the governmental institution was redefined to allow women to vote, that was different because women suffered more violence? I gotcha' Huckabee. What you're saying is we need to go out and beat gay people so that they deserve the rights they are denied? Got it.

[Makesense]

Some people here have accused me of hating gays. I don't hate gays. I like them but dislike the concept of someone being gay so I do not support it.

[postman606]

Wow that made less sense then anything you've said.

[luvobama]

What concept do you dislike? Do certain feelings make you uncomfortable? I heard that is very normal for someone repressing their true self.

Come out of your closet. It's warm and filled with fresh air out here.

[Excitedforfuture]

Being gay is not a choice -- it's not a fad that someone chooses because they think it's cool!

[EileneLepht]

That is true for most gays but people like Anne Heche have proved that is not always true. Some people DO choose their lifestyle.

[slaxx]

we live in a society. of course there are things that we don't like about other people. it's about tolerance; in order to live in a society we have to put up with things may personally disagree with. however, your position is strikingly intolerant because being gay isn't a choice unlike some of the things i personally dislike, like when people take no responsbiblity for themselves or are intolerant, violent, mean, greedy, etc.

[JWoode]

I dislike okra.

I also dislike people who are old enough to know better, but choose ignorance instead.

[Excitedforfuture]

Okay, so I've been on Huffington Post for months now. I got banned, I think because I was defending gay people and also stating that I am a Christian. Apparently, someone was offended by someone believing that God would not condemn a gay person, since he was the one who created them.

So someone banned me from making comments because I am a Christian democrat who believes that showing love, kindness and acceptance for the human race has no right to talk?

Confused!

[Tomasekbride]

Christian bashing is the fault of the Christians for being so closed minded and intolerable. Homosexuals are born gay. You can decide to be Christian or not. You can also decide to be a pain in the secular arse christian or an open minded how Jesus would have lived Christian. Give me a break, Huckey

[slaxx]

no one should be bashing anyone for whatever reason.

and i would be hesitant to call those people "christians" anyhow.

the bible in fact says very little about being gay. and it makes no mention of lesbianism. it was written at a time when they had little knowledge of reproduction and they thought that sperm was all that was needed for life - they thought that the baby just grew in the woman - they didn't understand the contribution of the egg, hence the prohibition on sodomy and male m.ast.erba­.tion.

jesus himself said nothing about gays - those scriptures were written later on by MEN who had their own agendas. personally, i also think that the scriptures probhibiting male s.ex were written to protect men from male r.ape.

"Whatsoever you do to the least of your brothers, you do unto me."
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God."
"Love your neighbor as yourself."
"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

[klmebane]

there are also two particular stories in the bible that come to mind when someone says "god will send gays to hell."

I Samuel 16-20, 1:19-27
The Book of Ruth

in the first example, it was a moving story about the love between Jonathan and David. a quote from it: "your love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women." Yet Israel celebrates David as its greatest hero.

in the second example, the story also speaks of a woman's love for a woman passing the love of men.

i could keep going and talk about some of the other scriptures that are used to justify homophobia and discrimination against gays: like Leviticus, Genesis, Judges, Romans, I Corinthians, and I Timothy. i'll wait till someone asks for those, though.

[christianmama4change]

Actually there's no evidence of being born gay - scientists are urgently looking for the gay gene. Nothing's surfaced yet, we looked through some of the latest research in my graduate sex therapy classes.

[postman606]

Actually since DNA is relatively new I think the evidence is begining to trickle in on the side of homosexuality at birth.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Homosexual-by-Birth-41918.shtml

[JWoode]

What evidence is there that people are born heterosexual?

[luvobama]

Here's a novel thought.

How about believing the 100% of the gay population who will tell you they were born gay. Why wouldn't you believe them? I'm straight and I do.

If you and I are both straight and I have no problem with gays and you do, WHY? What separates you and I? Why are you concerned when i don't think it's my business who someone else loves and wants to make a family with.? WHY WHY WHY?

[Nikola Tesla]

That you made up.

[slaxx]

there's no evidence that people are born straight either.

[suekzoo]

I guess Huckabee has never heard of Matthew Shephard.

[slaxx]

or teena brandon.

[Excitedforfuture]

I agree -- but be careful -- I got banned for making a comment exactly like this one!

[mindnumbed]

or moses cannon

[Scandalouscandice5]

"It is very important that the state makes sure that they are not denying the same kind of rights that have historically been denied, because when I think about a same sex couple not being able to visit each other in the hospital, when I think about them not being able to transfer property, or to pass on benefits, I think that"s contrary to what most Americans believe, and that"s why I"m going to change it when I"m president of the United States."

Barack Obama

"I've stated my opposition to this. I think [Prop 8 is] unnecessary. I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage. But when you start playing around with constitutions, just to prohibit somebody who cares about another person, it just seems to me that's not what America's about. Usually, our constitutions expand liberties, they don't contract them."

Barack Obama

[RickMcd85]

It doesn't matter if it it's the will of the people to stop gay marriage. When it comes to a civil rights, one group of citizens do not have the right to remove rights of another group of citizens.

The courts are there to protect the civil rights of Americans. If the people of a state abuse their power and remove the civil rights of other citizens, it is the duty and responsibility of the courts to correct that. This is not "judicial activism", it is the courts doing their job by ensuring that all Americans have equal rights.

We would not allow voters to take voting rights from African Americans, or driving rights from people with green eyes, or marriage rights from people who were Jewish.

It is the same with gay marriage. We, the people, do NOT have the right to take marriage rights from them.

Gay marriage is an inevitability. This is an unfortunate setback, but the history of America is one of progressing freedom and civil rights. After the Revolution, only white male property owners could vote. Gradually, more and more groups fought for and won freedom. A few decades ago, interracial marriage was illegal in many states. Gay marriage, like every other civil rights struggle in the entirety of American history, will succeed. Conservatives, as always, will stall it, but there is not a single instance in American history when they actually won, and they aren't going to start now.