Huckabee: Gays Haven't Crossed Civil Rights Violence Threshold

Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee was on The View Tuesday talking about same-sex marriage and declaring that gay rights are not civil rights because gays have not had violence inflicted upon them like Blacks have.

HuckabeeSaid: "People who are homosexuals should have every right in terms of their civil rights, to be employed, to do anything they want. But that's not really the issue. I know you talked about it and I think you got into it a little bit early on. But when we're talking about a redefinition of an institution, that's different than individual civil rights. We're never going to convince each other...But here is the difference. Bull Connor was hosing people down in the streets of Alabama. John Lewis got his skull cracked on the Selma bridge."

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[MechaMike]

Gays have faced a lot of persecution in America and abroad. No its not exactly like African American Civil rights movement of course but it is A civil rights movement.

In colonial America, gay men were castrated if they were found to be gay and lesbian women had some of the cartilage removed from their noses.

Heck some gays along with "witches" were burned at the stake.

Until recently gay sex was illegal and people could be fired for being gay (in many states they still can be).

When homosexuality was considered a mental disorder, many gays were institutionalized and some received electro-shock therapy and others were lobotomized.

There have been hate crimes where people have been killed just for being gay (Matthew Shephard, Lawrence King).

During the Holocaust at least 50,000 gays were rounded up and put in concentration camps and at least 10,000 were executed.

In many Middle Eastern and African countries, gays can be imprisoned and executed just for being gay.

You can use google images and see pictures of gay teen males in Iran hanging dead from nooses.

How dare people say that gays haven't been persecuted or that their struggle is a civil rights struggle.

[MizzJada]

Actually, although it has not been widely reported, Connecticut voted down a ballot referendum to conduct a constitutional convention which would have enabled them to amend the constitution as the voters did in california.

Which basically means they voted no to have DELEGATES come in and change the constitution without voter input..

However if an amendment putting it to a STATEWIDE ballot question were to be put on the ballot as it usually is 4 years after the court decision where EVERYONE can vote on it - you won't be any more successful than you were in California!!

[cmfrey]

Do you want your rights put up for a popular vote?

[postman606]

Thank you, I think she has begun to take them for granted.

[ContraEgoiste]

So human rights are to be voted upon and are not unalienable?? heh, Go read the constitution.

So what would have happened if we had let the south vote on the civil rights of blacks instead??

[christianmama4change]

Blacks are 10% of the vote in California, Latinos make up 18% according to Nate Silver http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/prop-8-myths.html. The whole blame blacks for the ban of gay marriage is tired. Like it or not - most blacks and latinos believe marriage between a man and a woman establishes continuity of society. Not to mention the 72% white vote that supported the ban in a liberal state.

[cmfrey]

You're the one bringing it up.

[zenlikejen]

Are you harboring some guilt or something? No one here's talking about Prop H8 .......

Oh, and I'd also like to mention I really don't give two sh!ts which group voted which way or what most blacks & latinos think of gay marriage. Every *single individual* who voted for it should be ashamed.

Now, would you like to comment on the story you were posting from? Do you feel us gays need to suffer more violence before someone recognizes that the right to marry is a f'n CIVIL RIGHT?

[RickR]

I agree 100% with the statements that Huckabee is driving a wedge between gays and African Americans. Expect rhetoric like this to get louder in the coming days. It is only going to get uglier. Huckabee is stating that the GOP is not going to drop the religious right, they're only going to hug them tighter and attempt to drive Americans against each other.

The majority of Americans REJECTED this when we elected Obama.

Don't fall into the trap of arguing the "sense" of what he is saying.

He (and the GOP) doesn't care about gay Americans.

He (and the GOP) doesn't care about African Americans.

They care about one thing, and one thing only- POWER. And sleazeballs like Huckabee will stoop to anything to get it and hold it.

[astein1]

Everyone knows that gay is the new black.

Think about it.

[noseysniper]

Fail.

[christianmama4change]

I beg to differ on this one - Huckabee got elected governor with 48% of the black vote in his state - obviously they thought he cared though a republican. Also during the primaries, he was the only Republican to attend the black forums for presidential candidates. Though I am an Obama supporter - I do appreciate Huckabees efforts and yes I'm black.

[christianmama4change]

When was the last time a gay man/woman was pulled over and shot though unarmed?

[luvobama]

Are you missing the bigger picture on purpose? Please try not to fall for the normal republican line of non reason. I know we have had to listen to it for the past 8 years, but Change is on it's way. Don't miss it.

[cuomofied]

Um, it may be just shy of hyperbole, but he has a point. Do we live in a time of sexuality profiling? Didn't think so. I'm not defending Huckabee by any means, but I understand his misstated and misguided opinion.

As for your hurling of insults, sice you're so progressive, how is making a generalization supposed to prove your point that making generalizations is wrong?

It's not non-reason, it's an open dialogue. Your reasoning for not questioning authority or opinion seems to be quite Roveian, though.

Change is on the way - don't wreck it.

[jeg]

I'm sorry, you appear to have a very slanted opinion of what constitutes a civil rights violation. We'll ignore the beatings, the taunting, the mocking... and go straight to what these ammendments really say:

Because of arbitrary factor "X", we're going to deny you the same rights as another married couple possess. Because of factor "X", you are a lesser being, with fewer rights than your fellow citizens.

And that goes against everything that the civil rights movement, the women's suffrage movement, and indeed, the founding of this country, was based on.

Finally, that factor "X" is not based on a civil law or rationale, but a religious one, makes it even more of a violation of the basic principles of this country.

[Makesense]

thank you for that question. a lot of gays who compare their struggle to what blacks go through in this country do not know what beeing black means. a lot of gays are white and all the cursing on the small percentage of california blacks over prop 8 is them showing their true rasist rainbow colors. they are not what they seem.

[luvobama]

No one is doing any such thing. You just make it up as you go along. Always making sure you get some gay attention. I find you an interesting study.

[klmebane]

you seem to be ignoring the existence of people who are gay AND black... like me. the struggles are comparable. not identical, but comparable. blacks were denied equality, gays are still denied equality. i don't understand what the debate is if we ignore religious aspects (which shouldn't be involved in making laws of man anyway, according to jesus)

[postman606]

Is that the ultimate test one has to take in order to be granted basic rights?

[zenlikejen]

I'm sorry - is this a contest? Who is persecuted more? You want a trophy? What level of violence do I have to suffer before you see me as equal?

While it certainly won't rate on your "violence" meter - when was the last time you were afraid to hold your mates hand in public? Have you been fired for being black? Denied housing? Denied benefits? I highly doubt it as you've had those protections put in place for you...so I guess since you "got yours", F all the rest?

Yeah, if you wanna compare horror stories, I'm sure that even at this place in history you can still claim "victory" - you must be proud! The difference between you and me.....I always have and always WILL continue to stand up for *your* rights - even if it's the right to think I'm not worthy of the same protections YOU take for granted.

[Scandalouscandice5]

"It is very important that the state makes sure that they are not denying the same kind of rights that have historically been denied, because when I think about a same sex couple not being able to visit each other in the hospital, when I think about them not being able to transfer property, or to pass on benefits, I think that’s contrary to what most Americans believe, and that’s why I’m going to change it when I’m president of the United States."

Barack Obama

"I've stated my opposition to this. I think [Prop 8 is] unnecessary. I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage. But when you start playing around with constitutions, just to prohibit somebody who cares about another person, it just seems to me that's not what America's about. Usually, our constitutions expand liberties, they don't contract them."

Barack Obama

[Leah McElrath Renna - Huffpost Blogger]

I would like to see him say that to my friend Judy Shepard's face.

[Scandalouscandice5]

To any mother, father, son, daughter, brother, sister, aunt, uncle, grandparent that supports their loved ones.

[Makesense]

This issue is one that I agree 100% with conservatives and Mr Huckabee. Yes on prop 8.

[postman606]

How do you feel about gays in the military?

[walleymr]

Personally, I miss the guys I dated that are now stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[adampap]

um why? that doesn't makesense

[CBS]

Very likely it will be overturned as unconstitutional because it took an existing civil right away. If allowed to stand it would mean that the voters in CA could take away any rights held by any group. There is a flaw in the way it was written. Am sure you and your ilk will try again though.

[ctekin]

Good for you. you are as wrong as they are.

[cuomofied]

I don't agree with him, but how is a deep seeded belief "wrong"?

Ignorant, yes. Wrong, no. This is the divide we must conquer, but with reason and open arms, not elitist attitude and shoddy rhetoric.

[steamboat]

I'm NEUTRAL..........I'll respect whatever the law says on this issue. How's that?

But I do want to comment and hope it isn't censored like it was before. Because I do respect (and learn) from other people's response to my questions/comments.

Why all these protests in states OUTSIDE of California because of how Californians voted? Why break into a Delphi Township, Michigan church and harrass the people there?

Also, ALL groups in California voted FOR Prop 8...African-Americans 70%, Mexican-Americans 53%....So why only protest in front of predominant WHITE-attended churches? Is it because the mainstream media hates evangelists and mormons, but won't say a word v. the black and hispanic churches in California?

[steamboat]

Evidently I'm on to something because NOBODY wants to answer my questions

[TheBlackCat]

As for people disrupting church services, I think there is no excuse for that.

I WILL explain why people protest at white churches and not black or hispanic ones. I used to live down south, and almost any time I did anything there were evangelical protestors. When I went to Church (Catholic) they were outisde telling me I was an idolator and going to hell. When I went to school at UF, they would protest in Turlington Plaza, because my school teaches evolution. When I went to a rock concert, they were there telling me I was going to hell (I'm not sure why, having fun?). When I went to a marijauana legalization conference, they were protesting us for our vice. On Halloween, they protested us celebrating "the Devil's Holiday"

In my 5 years down south, I was NEVER harassed by a black or hispanic church group. Every single time, all the protestors were white evangelicals. Althought blacks and hispanics may VOTE as religious conservatives, they don't get in your face about it. They don't come to YOUR church and demonstrate...but the white evangelicals do.

Now I don't think 2 rights make a wrong, and I would not protest outside an evangelical church. But I hope this explains why OTHERS do.

[ContraEgoiste]

Why then should have the North intervene with what was happening down south then??

Because wrong is wrong and is up to the whole of the US to fight wrong within its borders.

Once again, Should equal rights be something that should be voted on or something that we ALL have automatically??

[christianmama4change]

I think the protests at Saddleback and the Mormon churches are because they were part of the main organizers supporting traditional marriage. I listened to some stories on NPR and there is some tension between some gay activists and the black community. Like I said earlier - tons of Obama supporters voted for traditional marriage in California and Florida.

[zenlikejen]

Fair enough...

We protested here in KC last Saturday - why? Gays make up a small percentage of the population - when you put up issues involving OUR lives up for a popular vote, we will NEVER have the numbers on our side to make any kind of difference. What happened in CA was a shock - and should have been a wake up call for ANYONE who could have their rights taken away, because what they did set a dangerous precedent!

I'll say it again - and since I have to keep repeating it I must be in the minority when I say, I don't care what color you are - every last individual who voted on that is to blame and should be ashamed. I would say since the mormon church made such a show of how much money they raised to promote Prop H8 - it would stand to reason that those who opposed it would protest in front of mormon churches (and since FOF is layong off people thanks to all of the money *they* wasted - there's the reason for anger against them, too)...and wouldn't you agree that you're going to see more white faces coming from the mormon church than, say a southern baptist church?

[realpolitic]

Many gays probably have encountered violence at one time or another in their lives, although I would stop short of comparing the struggle for same-sex marriage to the civil rights struggle for blacks that fought for basic rights like voting and eating in a diner. Now if one is fired for their sexual orientation I would say that is a civil rights issue.

[MizzJada]

"Blacks were not seeking equality because violence was perpetrated. Violence was perpetrated because they were seeking equality Huck."

Look at this here.. You're so busy trying to ride out coattails that you make ignorant statements like this.. Are you really saying here that there was no violence against blacks before the Civil Rights movement?!!? Try reading about the movement you are trying to desperately to piggyback before you try to own it..

And others are in here questioning if I'M educated?!?!

[CBS]

I just find you annoying

[ContraEgoiste]

hmmm, seems like we're arguing with a child with a child's understanding of history and logic, it may not be worth the effort.

Yes blacks were being abuse as ALL disfranchised groups are (EG: Native Americans), But the explosion of violence of the 50's and 60's into the 70"s was spurred because of the fight for equality.

One more time.

The violence inflicted on blacks wasn't just because they were black, but because they were seeking EQUALITY. Until then, blacks were not counted as a whole person but just 2/3 of one, and as such they could not vote, etc. As long as blacks continued to be subservient they were more or less tolerated althou abused. The whole thing exploded when they sought equality, the racists whites couldn't concieve of that and lashed out in an attempt to stop them.

[postman606]

3/5

[poizinniv]

I'm not sure I agree with you on this. It sounds like women (and young girls) were regularly raped, men were lynched for minor crimes. Slaves were regularly beaten and not fed very well, probably all while working from dusk till dawn. I'm not sure how these things don't qualify as violence and hate. I'm sure there were some places that it sucked LESS to be a slave, but I'm sure most of the time they were regularly on the receiving end of violence. Being whipped if they didn't work fast enough, etc.

Now, I think the violence probably did escalate a bit when they started fighting back and didn't take it meekly anymore. But that's probably because the white man decided they were being defiant and only more violence would teach them a lesson.

I'm a white woman so obviously can only speculate, but to say that they were not subject to high amounts of violence before their push for civil rights just sounds CRAZY.

[Aywaller]

You just decided today to start posting this divisive stuff? Looked at your profile and it seems the only thing you're interested in is sowing the seeds of division on this thread.

Interesting moniker, MizzJada. Trying to be black, much?

[luvobama]

Trying to be black, female and straight.

Failing big time on all three.

[klmebane]

nobody owns civil rights. they belong to every american equally. every american should have the same rights as every other american. property, marriage, hospital visitation, medical decisions, etc.

[steamboat]

Without sounding like a wiseguy I have a question/comment for everybody and I'd like to hear your responses:

Ok, why is Huckebee so bad for his comment but Barack Obama when he ran for US Senate from Illinois started his campaign and did alot of his campaigning from the Salem Baptist Church on the southside of Chicago. You say so what. Well the pastor is one of his best friends, state sen. Rev. James Meeks. Who always runs plays at his church depicting gays as "deciples of Satan, the gutter people, people with the devil through them." Obama never ever critized Meeks. The liberal Chicago Sun-Times even did a headline story criticizing Meeks's plays. All my fellow Chicagoans on this blog know this is a fact.

[Scandalouscandice5]

Obama personally doesn't believe in gay marriage but so far to my knowledge has not campaigned against it.

He has also spoken out against prop. 8. And his church supported gay marriage and is hailed as very progressive as a black church that supports the gay community.

[Aywaller]

Meeks and Huckabee are both wrong as two left shoes on this issue. What does that have to do with Obama? You say that Meeks and Obama are "best friends." Didn't you get the memo? That kind of "association" smear didn't work in the election and won't work now.

[steamboat]

Obama announced his candidacy for the US Senate in from Meeks's church. And came back there several times during the campaign............I still remember how liberals went after republicans who visited Robert Jones University, Jerry Falwell, etc........so why the double-standard?

[Mekarri]

I am a black woman and I think two adults of the same sex should be able to get married. The intolerance of the American people is shameful, just as it was when they did all kind of unforgiveable things to the black race. Its is really shameful for blacks to feel this way and be willing to help take away people civil rights just because you are cowards and ignorant This was done to my grand parents and their parents. I would never disrepect their memory by being so closed minded and hateful. I don't care who is gay, straight or stupid if you treat me with respect then I have absolutely no problem with you. I believe in live and let live.

[priusdriver]

If only more people were as intelligent as you... keep up the fight.

[kjstjohn]

You are a beautiful person, Mekarri. I am a white, straight woman. If we don't take care of each other, what do we have in this life?

[cmfrey]

Thank You! We're all in this together.

[luvobama]

You represent most of America. Thank you.

[ContraEgoiste]

Not gay myself, but as someone who strongly empathise with the disfranchised and aids in their strugle,

Thank you for your humanity.

[CBS]

The man is good with repartee and witty banter but he is extremely ignorant on a variety of subjects. The great thing about the Obama presidency is that it is going to raise the bar on everything. The contrast between the intelligent and competent people who O is appointing and Huckabee will be apparent to anyone with eyes and a brain

[EdMuse]

The reason the dozens/hundreds/thousands of violent crimes against gays doesn't register with Mr. Holier than Thou is because he, in the back of his mind, believes they deserved it. He obviously has forgotten the Holocaust which cost tens of thousands of gays their lives. The man, like the rest of the Republicant party, is in denial.

[Scandalouscandice5]

He to this day has never apologized for the comment about all people with AIDS being isolated on their own island.

I wonder what Ryan White's mother must have thought about that. Or the rest of the so called good Christians with similar mindsets.

[antaeus]

Beware of white evangelicals and Mormons here trying desperately to sow discord between gays and African Americans. Don't fall for it.

[kjstjohn]

Thank you, antaeus. That bears repeating every few pages.

[kjstjohn]

And, BTW, I am an evangelical Christian but I follow Jesus' example which, in some respects, is antithetical to the writings of Paul and others posing as Paul.

[Chaucea]

Yep, the whole 'the black vote caused prop 8 to pass' myth was well proven as a myth--fivethrityeight.com has an article on that very thing:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/prop-8-myths.html