Huckabee: Gays Haven't Crossed Civil Rights Violence Threshold

Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee was on The View Tuesday talking about same-sex marriage and declaring that gay rights are not civil rights because gays have not had violence inflicted upon them like Blacks have.

HuckabeeSaid: "People who are homosexuals should have every right in terms of their civil rights, to be employed, to do anything they want. But that's not really the issue. I know you talked about it and I think you got into it a little bit early on. But when we're talking about a redefinition of an institution, that's different than individual civil rights. We're never going to convince each other...But here is the difference. Bull Connor was hosing people down in the streets of Alabama. John Lewis got his skull cracked on the Selma bridge."

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Comments

[ohmetoo]

What an outrageous statement by huck "that gay rights are not civil rights because gays have not had violence inflicted upon them like Blacks have". Surely he reads the papers, there have been countless murders, acts of vengence, threats and verbal and physical harm in recent history because people were not like him! Granted there wasn't enslavement, but come on now there has been persecution a plenty, and now the prop 8 insult.

Fix this now! The state issues marriage licenses, and whom ever honors gay unions preform the ceremony of their choice.

We must get religion out of politics NOW, or churches can pay the penalties, or contribute to society as a whole, paying both property and income taxes, just like any business period.

[CBS]

I am hoping the support in the form of funds from the Mormon Church for Prop 8 will call their tax exempt status into question..­.at least here in Cali. The state could use their taxes to help offset the budget shortfall.

[Topfeeder]

Yes!!!

[TheBlackCat]

I also agree that tax exemptions should be exempt when they become political organizations. HOWEVER...

...I can think of no quicker way for the Democrats to lose power than to push for taking tax exemption status away from religious institutions.

Sometimes the right choice is just not the feasable one.

[kissmygrits]

Matthew Shepard might disagree if he was alive to argue with you, a--hole.

[bigtroubletrin]

exactly my thoughts. not to mention all the other examples. i guess enough gay people havent been mangled for him, yet.

[tedbear]

Huckabee is another two-bit preacher who will say anything to attract the Republican evangelical right. He doesn't believe anything he says, he is a player. A player folks, it is written all over his smirk., and you folks of the religious right are the playees!.

[CBS]

The leaders of the 'gelicals are interested in wallets not God or their flock (what an insult to sheep to call them that, but there you are)

[Sammy00400]

One problem with this issue is that gay-rights activists are basically telling people who hold traditional marriage as between a man and woman that they are fundamentally wrong.... and always have been. This isnt the first time this has happened, and wont be the last. But there are two ways to do it. One is to force the change onto people. The other is to bring people around to change on their own. The best thing that could have been done to beat prop 8 is on a TV commercial showing several very sad little kids talking about how homophobes wont let their parents get married. Sure it would been exploitation. But if this issue is about families then why not do it?

[luvobama]

You can hold your marriage any way you want.

Now try letting others do the same.

[steamboat]

I agree with you. In otherwords if I don't agree 100% 100% of the time with gays, then I'm labeled anti-gay. And thats baloney...­......and why only go after white churches. ALL groups in California voted for Prop 8. And African-Americans voted 70%. Mexican-Americans 53%. But I'll tell you why they won't protest in front of predominant black or mexican churches . They won't take that garbage. The protesters will get their a*s's kicked and they know it. And they won't get the sympathy from the media which they get if they protest evangelists and mormons, whom the mainstream media hates.

[ContraEgoiste]

Since when are human rights something to be voted on??

[ContraEgoiste]

..."are basically telling people who hold traditional marriage as between a man and woman that they are fundamentally wrong..."

Post a link to an article or person that has said so. We'll wait.

Making up stuff much??

[MizzJada]

"I say, let the states decide and if we put a referedum on the ballot and if the people say it's ok, then let be. If the people say no, let it be.....'

I agree!!! If you don't want out opinion then keep it in the courts!!!

Now I could care less who has the right o marry and who doesn't.. I say give them the right, its not affecting my marriage - however cut that crap out about how we have to be on yoru side becuase of our struggles.­. FIGHT YOUR OWN BATTLES!! STop looking to blacks to do it for you..

[TakeBackAmerica]

Oh my God - you ARE a white Republican trying to sow dissent here. No self-respecting aware black person would say something that ridiculous. Be gone - you have no power here!

[luvobama]

Been saying it all along.

[mentallectual]

As a black male, I am offended by MizzJada's comments. She seems to forget that many people helped black people achieve equal rights in this country. Please know that many black Americans DO support gay rights and will stand shoulder to shoulder with you to achieve equality. Fight on!!

[luvobama]

She is not black. nor is he a she. It's so obvious he's a closet case and is getting quite desperate in his faux attacks on his own kind.

I was never aware of how many tortured closet cases there are until this proposition. Check out how long he's been on this thread soaking up all the gay attention he can get.

[TheBlackCat]

Great post! I am a straight, married person of faith, and I ALSO want any homosexuals reading this to know that I, like you, am a firm believer that silence and inaction in the face of another's oppression makes one culpable for that oppression.

Support the Human Rights Campaign!

[politicalmama]

thank you metallectual, thank you black cat. the solidarity y'all express brought tears to my eyes. we've all got to support each other when it comes to confronting injustices. thanks, metallectual, for reminding us all of that history of alliances in civil rights, in abolition (and it's something we all have to keep fresh every day, as the alliances we work so hard to build can be divided). i'm a bi, married (yes, to a man), white woman--and am keenly aware that i if i had fallen in love with a different person i'd be without a lot of rights that i currently enjoy. so i really appreciate TheBlackCat's comment about being silent in the face of another's oppression--that's precisely how you join the oppressors.

I wonder (if MazzJada is who she represents herself to be) if there's anyone in the closet in her family....

[steamboat]

Prop 8 was in CALIFORNIA. It was the people of California who voted for Prop 8. So it baffles me that people protesting what the folks of Califonia voted on are running through churches and harrassing citizens in states OUTSIDE of California because of how Californians voted.

[ContraEgoiste]

So, do you believe someones right to equality should be voted upon or a persons equal rights be a fate acompli?

That is the difference.

If back then the south had voted on the equal rights of blacks would they have them now?

[politicalmama]

were you not paying attention? plenty of the funding for pro-prop 8 work came from outside california. and from organizations with branches in CA and other states. of course, so did plenty of the no on prop 8 money.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1852263,00.html?imw=Y

what happens in one state is important in other states. let's not pretend CA is another country.

[ContraEgoiste]

"FIGHT YOUR OWN BATTLES!! "

You seem to forget history. If it wasn't for the whites helping, the CRM would not have succeeded. And specially if it wasn't for the whites in power who sided with the right thing to do. That is very petty and small of you.

[postman606]

Not long ago there were states in the Union where interracial marriage was illegal. To right the obvious wrongs done to others is a noble battle, and certainly not for the weak and morally bankrupt. Obviously you need to remain on the sidelines.

[MeltonCartes]

His are such weak arguments.

So, going from Abraham having two wives (and the other polygamists of the Bible) to monogamy somehow doesn't affect the "institution" of marriage today. Clearly, this institution is less static or immutable than Huckabee and his friends want us to believe. And Joy forgot to mention miscegenation.

As for violence, "Gee, Mike, how many whacks does it take for a struggle to become a civil rights struggle?!?"

Buh bye, Mike.

[cactusgal]

I just don't understand this at all. Is he saying that marriage is a God-given right and that God specifically forbids gay marriage? What about atheists? Should they also be forbidden to marry since they don't believe in a Supreme Decider? And since when does the level of persecution determine whether ANYONE is entitled to civil or God-given rights?

Either some of that 110 lbs Huckabee lost was brain matter, or he's speaking in tongues. What a load of crappaloni !

[kjstjohn]

I think Huckabee has run some thoughts together. Translating, I think he is saying that gays do have some individual civil rights; the institution of marriage should not be modified to include gays; and the black civil rights movement is different from the gay civil rights movement because of a history of violence against blacks.

[cactusgal]

That may be the case and he's entitled to his opinion as a private citizen. I personally don't put much stock in biblical interpretations from former governors/­politician­s any more than I do interpretations of the Constitution coming from former Baptist preachers.

And when it comes to comparing the level of violence toward blacks or homosexuals as it relates to civil rights, I sure as heckabee don't want a lecture from a straight white guy. Huckabee's trying to wear too many hats and none of them fit.

[RickMcd85]

The fact that this guy is a contender for President in 2012 is almost more frightening than the prospect of a Palin candidacy. Huckabee is probably more dangerous, because while Palin is obviously the embodiment of ignorance to most Americans, Huckabee has a certain charm and friendly demeanor that can be appealing to many. The man won multiple primaries. What a major set back for progress this man would represent. Obama 2012!!!

With that said, I know Huckabee is a homophobe, but I do have to admit in general he seems like a decent person. Like, he'd be a cool person to have as the friendly-b­ut-amusing­ly-old-fas­hioned-nex­t-door-nei­ghbor, but I'd certainly no way in hell ever want him to be involved in national politics.

[adampap]

yeah it is rather frightening. huckabee wants a theocracy. hey that rhymes, could be his campaign slogan.

[GTFOOH]

No? Just ask Matthew Shephard!

[ContraEgoiste]

Huckleberry is either actually dumb or playing dumb by using circular logic.

The violence inflicted on blacks wasn't just because they were black, but because they were seeking EQUALITY. Until then, blacks were not counted as a whole person but just 2/3 of one, and as such they could not vote, etc. As long as blacks continued to be subservient they were more or less tolerated althou abused. The whole thing exploded when they sought equality, the racists whites couldn't concieve of that and lashed out in an attempt to stop them.

Blacks were not seeking equality because violence was perpetrated. Violence was perpetrated because they were seeking equality Huck.

The gay movement is the same one of seeking equality, period. And that is why is compared to the Civil Rights movement. It could also be compared to the womens rights movement. Or any movement where marginalized people seek the same rights as every one else.

[PuddinPie]

Under the constitution blacks were considered 2/3 of a human being for the census and in determining the number of House members a state was allowed. There has been a long and grim history of violence towards blacks in this country one of which you might have heard of chattel slavery. The violence after slavery continued. Laws were created to deter blacks from voting. We were not subservient we were OPPRESSED. What we saw during the Civil Rights movement was a public manifestation of the continuing violence and oppression blacks had to endure through out the south and previously endured in all of the United States. We were seeking equal protection under the constitution. We were also seeking the right to self-defense through our legal system, in otherwords justice.

[MizzJada]

"Blah blah blah. You are proof enough that our education system is in dire need of reforming.

You are clearly not up to speed on the issues. You are more interested in sticking up for yourself and interested in your people and not looking at the impact as a whole that the CRM and the black community have made on our history. That doesn't just include black people. What the CRM did impacted us ALL. You have no concept of social injustices outside of your own bubble. That is depressing and frankly hateful in it's own right.

Grow up."

BLAH BLAH BLAH - I must be onto something because 70% of my people voted against you in the most LIBERAL state in the country... Maybe thats what you need to be thinking about instead of if I'm educated or not...

Even when I look at the impact as a whole I still don't see how our struggle for freedom and the right to be treated as HUMAN equates to a gay persons right to get married.. I don't see it and blacks as a whole don't see it..

So as I "grow up" perhaps you should "smarten up"...

[Scandalouscandice5]

I am not gay but thanks for assuming that only gay people stick up for gay people. You are truly i-gnorant.

Of course you don't see how the CRM impacted us all. All men, all women, all humans. Of course you don't get that.

You live in a me, me, me, I, I, I mindset. until you can look at all people as humans, then you will continue to stay in the dark.

[LunaNik]

Sorry, sweetie, but Massachusetts is the most liberal state in the country.

P.S. When you're replying to another's post, you should click "reply" under that person's post. That way, your response will show up under the post of the person you're answering, not 150 posts later.

[Scandalouscandice5]

Yep. Mass is pretty blue. I should know I live there. And was at the courthouse when the first gay marriages took place.

And you don't have to be gay to support love.

[postman606]

Glad to know you speak for Blacks as a whole. As one you do not speak for let me say this, it is impossible to quantify the level of injustice done to a group of people, especially if you are not a member of that group. But more importantly, gay men and women have contributed in this society in every way, including the ultimate sacrifice, giving there lives in combat.
Therefore it makes perfect sense that they should enjoy the basic rights expected by every other man and women. If you are indeed A.A. there was a time, in many states, where you could not have married a Caucasian.

[luvobama]

He is not black.

[kjstjohn]

Listen, everybody. MizzJada has two central and related themes. First is that gays should not assume black support just because blacks have been through the Civil Rights struggle.
Second is that gays are going to have to earn black support and if they don't they will be defeated by blacks across the nation.

This kind of talk is extremely insensitive and does not bear repeating more than once or twice. Please do not respond to MizzJada as this encourages her to keep on repeating these hurtful points. Lets keep the discussion going among people who have a sense of good will towards one another.

Thank you.

[kjstjohn]

One more thing. NOT responding MizzJada will help you to refrain from responding to her in kind. When we are discussing something as serious as black civil rights and gay rights, I think it is very important to try to lift each other up. People who are persistently disruptive are best ignored after several attempts have been made to communicate with them on the level.

[Scandalouscandice5]

You got to feel sorry for those with no concept of humanity outside of themselves and no desire to learn. That's all she is and all she ever will be.

[LunaNik]

Good point.

[ContraEgoiste]

"First is that gays should not assume black support just because...­"

If that is the case then is not only faulty logic but petty. The CRM would not have succeeded if it wasn't because the intervention of conscienious whites and whites in power.

"just because blacks have been through the Civil Rights struggle."

Nope, women as well as every minority group that landed on our shores had to fight for their civil rights. Yes, the abuses meted on blacks has no precedence in the US history except perhaps what was done to the Native americans, but they were not the only civil rights movement in the US and definetely not the world.

"Second is that gays are going to have to earn black support...­"

Beyond petty but obtuse in a blackmail sort of way. Sad, since of all people she(?) should understand a fight for equality.

[Scandalouscandice5]

Women had been thrown under the bus to religion at the same time gays were. There are historical aspects to women oppression being tied to new religions forming and defeating their competition by creating new rules. Gay was out and women rights were out.

[klmebane]

i seem to recall gay people standing with blacks during the civil rights struggle trying to help them get treated equally... so any black person who would say they are happy that some people, who helped them get where they are, don't have equal rights is asinine. i agree with you though, we shouldn't give whoever that is the misguided notion that people are actually listening.

[rharris513]

Why is Huckabee so insistent that marriage is not a civil right? And the permanance of marriage as an institution is simply not true. The Bible's greatest figures were polygamists, and even in this country the institution of marriage was only between a man and woman OF THE SAME RACE. The definition of marriage keeps changing but essentially is a CIVIL CONTRACT between two adults as recognized by the STATE!

[wdw102]

you are right, just gay marriage is not recognized by most STATEs including CA!

good

[Scandalouscandice5]

Most people don't have a concept of their religions origins.

God is not hateful, organized religion is.

http://rictornorton.co.uk/homopho1.htm

[adampap]

have you read the old testament? god has killed more people than any human could ever hope to.

and as for religions origins they almost all go like this:
they are centered around a god or gods that almost certainly don't exist, who spoke to prophets that probably never existed and inspired the authorship of holy books which contain countless contradictions about moral and scientific claims, and documented events for which there is no archaeological evidence and which may or may not have taken place dozens or even hundreds of years before the authors who wrote about them were born.

[MizzJada]

"As we point out to you, "next time" will be in the courts."

Use your head!! It was in the "courts" before the whole Prop 8 ballot question.. How did that turn out?? I would Imagine the same will happen in Mass and Connecticut very shortly.. Everytime the courts get involved on a state level the question will move to a ballot so the citizens can decide...

"Your attempt to hold up the votes of a block of citizens as some kind of cudgel is repulsive and un-American. If you or anyone else votes for marriage equity, then it will be because you are doing the right thing, not because you are doing someone a favor."

Perhaps it would do gays some good to remember this instead of assuming you've got the balck vote because of our Civil RIghts struggles.­..

[Scandalouscandice5]

Blah blah blah. You are proof enough that our education system is in dire need of reforming.

You are clearly not up to speed on the issues. You are more interested in sticking up for yourself and interested in your people and not looking at the impact as a whole that the CRM and the black community have made on our history. That doesn't just include black people. What the CRM did impacted us ALL. You have no concept of social injustices outside of your own bubble. That is depressing and frankly hateful in it's own right.

Grow up.

[GG1983]

Actually, although it has not been widely reported, Connecticut voted down a ballot referendum to conduct a constitutional convention which would have enabled them to amend the constitution as the voters did in california.

[antaeus]

You "imagine" the same will happen in Massachusetts "very shortly"?

It has now been years since same-sex marriage arrived in the commonwealth. There is no sign that New Englanders are ready to take the lead in enshrining discrimination into their constitutions.

Stop harping on your false argument. Nobody "assumed" the support of black evangelical Christians.

[Scandalouscandice5]

It's good for the local economy too!!

[socalbrat84]

AND what about Matthew Sheppard you A**hole! Would that not be considered violence?! Stupid Huckabee. Stupid.

[Lolotehe]

God bless. Thank you; I was just going to ask.