Franken Camp: Coleman's Lead Down To Double Digits

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First Posted: 11-21-08 01:23 PM   |   Updated: 12-22-08 05:12 AM

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Aides to Al Franken's campaign said on Friday that the deficit they face against Norm Coleman in their Senate recount is now less than 100 votes.

"It is fair to say that Norm Coleman's lead is now in the double digits," said Marc Elias, a lawyer for the campaign. He added, more optimistically that, "there are more Democratic areas with votes left to be counted than Republican."

The Franken math is not official. They are basing their findings both on the 51.1 percent of the state-wide recount that they have completed, but which is not reported by the Secretary of State, as well as a portion of the 800-or-so contested ballots that they believe will be easily resolved.

The dwindling margin separating the two camps, however, is making for high political drama. If Franken's numbers are to be believed, the Democratic challenger has more than halved his deficit with just over half the recount completed. The election, in short, could be decided by a single digit difference, though there is no telling if the margin will continue to close at the same pace.

All of which has upped the ante when it comes to contesting each and every vote. For the first time since the recount commenced, aides to Franken made a specific example of what they thought was a concerted effort by the Coleman campaign to frivolously challenge very specific ballots. Holding up sample ballots for members of the press, Elias noted that on ten separate occasions the Minnesota Republican had contested votes simply because the individual backed both John McCain and Al Franken.

"It must be heartbreaking that there were people who voted for John McCain and not Norm Coleman," he said. Elias went on to note that each side had likely challenged many ballots where the intent of the voter was clear. But in this instance, he added, the Coleman campaign's challenges seemed "more pattern-istic than over-exuberant."

If, in fact, the election boils down to a matter of determining the intent of a handful of voters, observers say that the campaigns could resort to court order for what would be, in effect, a second recount. In this instance, the Court would look at a much narrower batch of ballots and -- ostensibly -- have a specific set of standards for counting for whom the vote was determined.

Aides to Al Franken's campaign said on Friday that the deficit they face against Norm Coleman in their Senate recount is now less than 100 votes. "It is fair to say that Norm Coleman's lead is now in...
Aides to Al Franken's campaign said on Friday that the deficit they face against Norm Coleman in their Senate recount is now less than 100 votes. "It is fair to say that Norm Coleman's lead is now in...
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I have caught a great deal of flack for saying this on a previous post, but I am more convinced than ever that elections this close should be decided by a coin toss.

Recounts are based on the highly dubious proposition that the result of the recount more accurately reflects the will of the voter than does the original count. But there is no logical reason why that should be so. If Coleman "won" the original election by 200 votes and Franken "wins" the recount by 200, all you can say with any certainty is that you have two DIFFERENT results. There is no reason to assume that either result accurately reflects the will of the voter; they could very well both be wrong. If you then recounted the recount, you'd probably come up with yet a third result.

The truth is that while voters have intent, the cast votes do not; they are what they are. Even assuming an absolutely flawless election process, both voters and vote counters make mistakes in voting, tabulating and reporting votes. All election results are at best an approximation of the "intent" of the voter. When an election is this close, the "winner" is often just the result of random chance.

I believe that every vote should count as much as anyone else, but when an election is this close just counting and recounting votes provides absolutely no assurance that every vote will be correctly counted.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:12 PM on 11/21/2008
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I think if its close again, you should always have a 3rd count, period.
(Though I am rooting for Franken!)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:19 PM on 11/21/2008

Except that the second count is done more carefully with representatives from both sides inspecting every single ballot. The recount is arguably more accurate, particularly when there are many ballots that are a hundred percent clear in their intent, but which a machine failed to count properly (which there have been examples of).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:24 PM on 11/21/2008
- arvada I'm a Fan of arvada 60 fans permalink
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The important thing is AL wins,no matter how you count it or how you flip it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:25 PM on 11/21/2008
- HmblDog I'm a Fan of HmblDog 2 fans permalink

if you pay for your lunch and the waitress says you owe more and you think you paid the correct amount should you both take a look at the money you put down on the table to determine who is right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:25 PM on 11/21/2008

Wrong analogy. Here's the right one -- if you pay for your lunch, the money is put in the cash register with all the other lunch money, and THEN the waitress says you owe more --how the hell do you recount what you previously paid?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:25 PM on 11/21/2008
- GypsyRose I'm a Fan of GypsyRose 52 fans permalink

Hillary Clinton just accepted the SecState post, per NY Times, happening right now......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 11/21/2008
- MIMom I'm a Fan of MIMom 109 fans permalink
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I thought it was supposed to be after TurkeyDay?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:11 PM on 11/21/2008

Well that's settled...­hopefully.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:12 PM on 11/21/2008
- mdmpo I'm a Fan of mdmpo 18 fans permalink
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Cool.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:12 PM on 11/21/2008
- levibatgirl I'm a Fan of levibatgirl 284 fans permalink
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Ok then.

Hillary it is!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 11/21/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 498 fans permalink
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Good.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:15 PM on 11/21/2008
- kay I'm a Fan of kay 172 fans permalink

The only time I've ever listened to Franken was when I tried Airamerica, on line.

It was this really long piece on Social Security. It was good, too. Just a great explanation. It went on and on.

I thought "this station isn't going to make any money' :)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:09 PM on 11/21/2008
- SurferKit I'm a Fan of SurferKit 179 fans permalink
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I loved listening to Al on Air America. But he has a job waiting for him in the senate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 11/21/2008

LOL...sad, but true. Smart people discussing issues intelligently doesn't generate ratings.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 11/21/2008
- Ammobob I'm a Fan of Ammobob 36 fans permalink

We expect no more from the DEMS and AL F. And we also expect no more from NORM C. Being pragmatic, I've been stocking up on popular calibers and encouraging all like minded individuals to purchase their ASSAULT WEAPON now. A dealer in FAYETTE-NAM reported he could sell 100 AR's a day if he had them in stock. GUN BUSINESS is booming! Even in NJ! Go figure....­....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 PM on 11/21/2008

The fact that you're proud of this says a lot about you Ammo. Stay classy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:11 PM on 11/21/2008
- Ammobob I'm a Fan of Ammobob 36 fans permalink

I'm a firm believer that the 2nd should have been 1st.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 11/21/2008

What is the appropriate caliber for snipe hunting? I am going with Dlck Cheney.

Any advice Bob?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:11 PM on 11/21/2008
- Ammobob I'm a Fan of Ammobob 36 fans permalink

Duck when he turns to shoot.....­...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 11/21/2008

Don't forget to buy security blankets.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:11 PM on 11/21/2008
- Ammobob I'm a Fan of Ammobob 36 fans permalink

Bushmaster brand, right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 11/21/2008
- arvada I'm a Fan of arvada 60 fans permalink
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Actually, gun sales are down nice try nutter

Just because the N.R.A. puts out a press release,doesn't make it so

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 11/21/2008

Ummm, no. Gu n sales have been at an all time high since Obama was elected and id iots out there beleive the pro paganda put forth by g un manufacturers that he is going to take away our gu ns.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:29 PM on 11/21/2008

Don't forget to tuck your gun in at night and make it say its prayers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 11/21/2008
- EllisWyatt I'm a Fan of EllisWyatt 21 fans permalink
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Watching the Al Franken show in the U.S. Senate next year just might turn C-Span into a Nielsen ratings winner.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:07 PM on 11/21/2008
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YUP! Sh-it may get done for once.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 PM on 11/21/2008

Can you believe it? I thought people were joking on this forum about a coin toss to determine who wins the election. I did a google search. It's true, a coin toss is used in Minn. to determine winners during a tie election. This is insane.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:01 PM on 11/21/2008

Election laws are funny things, aren't they?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 11/21/2008

ever since I saw this, Ive been checking the Star Tribune and Coleman's votes have been going UP. Don't be jerking me around HuffPost!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 PM on 11/21/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 498 fans permalink
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As ballots are reviewed, some that were not counted will be counted for BOTH candidates. Both can expect votes to go up. It's the difference between the counts that maters, not the counts themselves.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 PM on 11/21/2008
- MIMom I'm a Fan of MIMom 109 fans permalink
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You know you enjoy it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:09 PM on 11/21/2008
- wm1066 I'm a Fan of wm1066 33 fans permalink
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Its the Strib thats jerking you around. They haven't reported fairly since the new owners took over.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:19 PM on 11/21/2008
- gcallaghan I'm a Fan of gcallaghan 52 fans permalink
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You go, Al.

Now, say it.

You're good enough. Your smart enough. And, doggone it, people like you!

Go ahead say it.

This time mean it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 PM on 11/21/2008
- emmaspeaks I'm a Fan of emmaspeaks 3 fans permalink

Must be something about that first name.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 PM on 11/21/2008

Please,please say 'fewer than' rather than 'less than' for those of us who are old enough to care!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:58 PM on 11/21/2008

Thank you. That's one of those common errors that bugs the piss out of me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 11/21/2008
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That one, and the egregious misuse of "myself" when "me" is the correct usage.

It's rampant.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:01 PM on 11/21/2008
- DemAbroad I'm a Fan of DemAbroad 3 fans permalink

If one considers "100 votes" a unit benchmark, then it is proper to say "less than 100 votes," just as it is proper to say "less than 100 dollars."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:09 PM on 11/21/2008

Maybe, but in this case, I don't think 100 can be considered a benchmark. At the very least, it would be highly arbitrary when counting votes, since a 100-vote differential isn't practically any different than a 2-vote differential. The winner is still the one with the most votes. So I'd argue that "fewer than" would be preferable here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:19 PM on 11/21/2008
- MIMom I'm a Fan of MIMom 109 fans permalink
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Is "gramm" short for grammar?

Funny...th­ought I had left college...­. :-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 11/21/2008
- GLaB I'm a Fan of GLaB 3 fans permalink

THE lead IS LESS THAN 100 votes.

THE...IS LESS

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:17 PM on 11/21/2008

Billo's head is gonna explode if Franken wins and most of the sheep at fixednoise will be on a suicide alert. lol

Franken was the only candidate I really, really, really wanted to win, much like I really wanted Webb to beat Macaca Allen in the '06 midterms ...

take care, blessings

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:57 PM on 11/21/2008
- Progress08 I'm a Fan of Progress08 22 fans permalink
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Remind me to mail a box of razor blades to FOX News when Al wins.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:23 PM on 11/21/2008
- Ammobob I'm a Fan of Ammobob 36 fans permalink

This is going to be good. The last time the Congress, especially the Senate, was in Fillibuster control was in 1975 and the DEMS had it then, too. It lasted thru the Carter Administration. This is going to be GOOOOOOD!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:57 PM on 11/21/2008
- helenwheels I'm a Fan of helenwheels 550 fans permalink
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even if Al loses, our party still cleaned the GOP's clock, and you have to just deal with it. S U C K on it, tro//ie.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 11/21/2008

It SURE is! Just wait until we Republicans stamp our feet like petulant children.

We'll show them what for, right Bob?

PS Are you a builder? My treehouse needs a new roof.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 11/21/2008
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Ammoboob can't even build a decent straw man.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 11/21/2008
- Ammobob I'm a Fan of Ammobob 36 fans permalink

Just makes sore feet unless it's cold in the tree stand.....­......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 PM on 11/21/2008
- proggirl I'm a Fan of proggirl 103 fans permalink
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Why do you want your government to screw up?
Even if you dislike your elected officials and disagree with their policies, isn't it in everyone's best interests for things to go well?
This "I can't wait for the administration to screw up just so I can blame the opposition" attitude speaks volumes about you. It's our country and your country too, Ammobob. Stop acting like a spiteful child just because you didn't get to keep all the toys this time around.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 11/21/2008
- aubrey8 I'm a Fan of aubrey8 5 fans permalink

Better be damn sure to put 5 armed guards on those ballot locations 24/7 Al !

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 11/21/2008
- yorkie I'm a Fan of yorkie 5 fans permalink

THE GOP IS SINKING SHIP FAST,,,will lose next 2-3 or more election cycles ,,,,GO AL GO !!! Count the votes!!!!! CLOEMAN IS HUCKSTER FIRST FOR NORMIE NOT MINNESOTANS! the rt wing ding bats have not a clue on why they are losing,,,,,in fact only by hook and crooks that BUSH won in 2000 and 04,,and PAWLENTY won by unusual 3 in race and in 04 did not get over 50%,,,,lets hope in 2010 the gerrymandered districts like the 3rd and the 6th are changed to correct them ! BACHMANN AND PAULSON are rt wing duds ,,,,,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 11/21/2008

I am afraid it seems the funny guy aint gonna make it. But it is certainly a very tight race, so who knows. Must be one of the tightest races in history, anywhere, ever.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 11/21/2008
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