Stock market doesn't flinch despite economic data

digg Share this on Facebook Huffpost - Stock market doesn't flinch despite economic data stumble reddit del.ico.us RSS

JEANNINE AVERSA | November 25, 2008 05:26 PM EST | AP

Compare other versions »
I Like ItI Don’t Like It
President-elect Barack Obama appears on a television screen on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, Tuesday Nov. 25, 2008. (AP Photo/Richard Drew)

WASHINGTON — Bad news was no news to the battered American economy Tuesday.

The government released a triple dose of discouraging data: The economy shrank over the summer even more than previously believed, and consumers reduced their spending by the largest amount in 28 years. During the same period, home prices fell to levels not seen since early 2004.

"Consumers and businesses were like deer in the headlights ... frozen," said economist Ken Mayland, president of ClearView Economics.

Most of the numbers were updates of previously released figures, and the revisions indicated that economic conditions were growing worse.

But Wall Street barely flinched and actually recorded its third straight day of gains, something that had not happened since the financial meltdown began almost 2 1/2 months ago. The Dow Jones industrials closed up 36 points, following a two-day rally in which the major indexes soared more than 11 percent.

The updated reading on the economy's performance from the Commerce Department showed the gross domestic product shrank at a 0.5 percent annual rate in the July-September quarter.

That was weaker than the 0.3 percent rate of decline first estimated a month ago, and it marked the worst showing since the economy contracted at a 1.4 percent pace in the third quarter of 2001, when terrorists attacked the U.S. and the nation was suffering through its last recession.

GDP measures the value of all goods and services produced within the U.S. and is considered the best barometer of the country's economic fitness.

Story continues below
advertisement

The new GDP figure matched economists' expectations, but nevertheless underscored just how quickly the economy deteriorated as the housing and credit crisis intensified. The economy logged growth of 2.8 percent in the second quarter.

White House press secretary Dana Perino called the lower GDP figure "troubling" and said $800 billion in new government efforts announced Tuesday should help spur more consumer spending by expanding the availability of loans and credit cards at cheaper rates.

Meanwhile, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. said the list of banks it considers to be in trouble shot up nearly 50 percent to 171 during the third quarter _ the highest level since late 1995.

The FDIC also said that commercial banks and savings institutions suffered a 94 percent drop in third-quarter profits to $1.7 billion. Except for the fourth quarter of 2007, it was the lowest profit since the fourth quarter of 1990.

The FDIC does not reveal the institutions on its "troubled" list, but on average, about 13 percent of them end up failing.

Nine banks failed in the third quarter, reducing the FDIC's deposit insurance fund to $34.6 billion from $45.2 billion in the second quarter. Both figures are below the target minimum level set by Congress.

Twenty-two banks have failed so far this year compared with three for all of 2007, and more failures are expected.

Elsewhere, the New York-based Conference Board said its Consumer Confidence Index for November rose to 44.9, from a revised 38.8 in October. Last month's reading was the lowest since the research group started tracking the index in 1967, and Americans' views on the economy remain the gloomiest in decades as they grapple with massive layoffs, slumping home prices and dwindling retirement funds.

To revive the economy, President-elect Barack Obama says a top priority will be working with Congress to enact a massive stimulus package that he says will generate millions of new jobs.

The new, lower third-quarter GDP reading mostly reflected an even sharper cutback in spending by consumers and slower sales growth of U.S. exports.

American consumers _ the lifeblood of the economy _ slashed spending in the third quarter at a 3.7 percent pace. That was deeper than the 3.1 percent cut initially reported and marked the biggest reduction since the second quarter of 1980, when the country was in the grip of recession.

Consumers have grown nervous about spending because of job losses, declining investment portfolios and sinking home values.

Underscoring the strain, the report showed that Americans' disposable income fell at an annual rate of 9.2 percent in the third quarter, the largest quarterly drop on records dating back to 1947. The government's initial estimate had showed a record 8.7 percent decline in disposable income for the quarter.

Sales of U.S. exports grew at a 3.4 percent pace in the third quarter. That was lower than a 5.9 percent growth rate initially estimated and marked a sharp slowdown from the second quarter's blistering 12.3 percent growth rate. The deceleration reflects less demand from overseas buyers coping with their own economic problems.

Home builders slashed spending at a 17.6 percent pace, marking the 11th straight quarterly cut and fresh evidence of the depth of the housing slump.

Also Tuesday, a report on home prices and downbeat earnings results from homebuilder D.R. Horton showed further deterioration in the housing market. The Standard & Poor's/Case-Shiller U.S. National Home Price Index said that home prices tumbled a record 16.6 percent during the third quarter from the same period a year ago. Prices are at levels not seen since the first quarter of 2004.

Fort Worth, Tex.-based D.R. Horton Inc. reported a nearly $800 million loss in its fiscal fourth quarter on slower home sales and more than $1 billion in charges amid a battered housing market.

To help revive the economy, the Federal Reserve is expected to lower interest rates when its meets on Dec. 16, its last session of the year. Last month, the Fed dropped its key rate to 1 percent, a level seen only once before in the last half-century.

So far, though, the Fed's rate reductions _ a $700 billion financial bailout package and a flurry of other radical actions _ have been unable to break though a dangerous credit clog, restore stability to financial markets and help the sinking economy.

The nation's unemployment rate is at 6.5 percent, a 14-year high, and is expected to climb. Employers have cut payrolls every month so far this year. The total number of unemployed in October was just over 10 million, the most in 25 years.

Given all the bad news, consumers are likely to make still more cuts, probably ensuring that the economy continues to shrink for the remainder of 2008 and into 2009.

WASHINGTON — Bad news was no news to the battered American economy Tuesday. The government released a triple dose of discouraging data: The economy shrank over the summer even more than previou...
WASHINGTON — Bad news was no news to the battered American economy Tuesday. The government released a triple dose of discouraging data: The economy shrank over the summer even more than previou...
Filed by Dave Burdick  |  Report Corrections
 
Comments
907
Pending Comments
0
iPhone App Promo

Want to reply to a comment? Hint: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to

View Comments:
Page: « First ‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Next › Last » (16 pages total)
- LWkcma I'm a Fan of LWkcma 5 fans permalink

DUH

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 AM on 11/25/2008
- ljc I'm a Fan of ljc 109 fans permalink

I doubt if anyone is surprised by this. I remember HRC saying that when Bill got in the WH they found that the debt was twice as much as Bush I was telling the American people. I guess that things are probably three or four times worse than Jr. says.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 AM on 11/25/2008

That is a scary thought but I suspect you are right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:47 AM on 11/25/2008
- andvoodoo2 I'm a Fan of andvoodoo2 120 fans permalink
photo

If that is the case this time, then the American people should hold Bush accountable and he should face CRIMINAL charges for lying to the American people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 AM on 11/25/2008
- K-Dog76 I'm a Fan of K-Dog76 8 fans permalink

andvoodoo2,

Sorry but the statute of limitations is something like 7 years, this would have happened over 16 years ago.

And I have news, you can't "hide" the economy... it not like the country has a single bookkeeper. So much of the economy is in the public sector and not ecen overseen by the government, so its impossible for the president to stash the receipts or something...

Think it through, really, there is no need for another witch hunt.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 PM on 11/25/2008
- K-Dog76 I'm a Fan of K-Dog76 8 fans permalink

ljc

Yeah Bush I had a secret spreadsheet with the "real numbers" on it...

give me a break

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 11/25/2008
photo

I think President-elect Obama and the Fed are falling into a trap here. They have positioned themselves in the political centre because they don't really know what to do. Yes some industries need to be bailed out and restructured. However, the present crisis state is an oportunity for the corporate elite. They have already emptied out the cookie jar and are now being giving the oportunity for more cookies. America has a stigma that will be her undoing. The stigma of "socialism". Americans see it as a threat rather than an instrument of society. This stigma has been propagated by the corporate elite. With the entire federal treasury on the line, Obama needs to nationalize the affected industries, restructure and stabilize them, and resell them to the private sector with new rules in place. End of problem, as the taxpayers and treasury will get at least some of their money back.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 AM on 11/25/2008
photo

lol
The government does such a good job running "businesses", it should take on more. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were what? hint: government sponsored enterprises. Who had oversight? Um, the Congress? The executive branch?
How is Amtrak doing, by the way?
I hear the post office is a couple billion in the red this year.
What year is it the Medicare will be broke?
I think they should run those new business with the same coherence as the federal tax code.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:54 AM on 11/25/2008

Interesting idea. The IRS sure knows what we peasants make and how we spend it. Maybe it is time to set the government attack dogs loose on the government.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:12 PM on 11/25/2008
- K-Dog76 I'm a Fan of K-Dog76 8 fans permalink

Rumple,

Exactly the reason to be a libertarian.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:39 PM on 11/25/2008
- MNinWI I'm a Fan of MNinWI 16 fans permalink
photo

Run for office then & change everything-see how well that goes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:23 PM on 11/25/2008

I concur. I suspect it's because socialism and communism are synonymous in many people's minds, which is a misconception. Socialism is an economic system, like capitalism, while communism is a political system, like democracy. Once the American public stops listening to the corporate elite via the MSM we may yet sort out this mess.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 AM on 11/25/2008
- K-Dog76 I'm a Fan of K-Dog76 8 fans permalink

actually mishap communism is very much an economic system as well as a political system. In fact its moore of an ideol.ogy than anything. It is similar to socialism in the redistribution of wealth, accept that the government is the soul controller of the economy. In fact, Marx saw socialism as the bridge between capitalism and communism. Communism is meant to replace capitalism through a period of socialism.

Here read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:38 PM on 11/25/2008
- gcw I'm a Fan of gcw permalink

Yep, trap resembles Iraq war, doesn't it? Jump into it without a plan. Fear being the guiding factor. Panic being a well-worn tool. Deregulation brought this on and therepubs still talk less regulation. Beat that!

And, once trapped, the new admin will have to finish out some of the bad stuff Bush is installing now. Talk about a lame duck bailing out his pals! Some lame duck presidents just bail out their jailbird friends. This one spends America on his pals. What a legacy!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 AM on 11/25/2008
- GaBu I'm a Fan of GaBu 23 fans permalink
photo

I sure hope things change.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 AM on 11/25/2008
photo

"...the country is almost certainly in the throes of a painful recession."

??? What part of increasing unemployment, Wall Street crashes, bank failures/b­uyouts/tak­eovers, do you NOT understand???

I'd say we are wayyyyyy past "almost certainly" and well into "absolutely".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:41 AM on 11/25/2008
- mero909 I'm a Fan of mero909 31 fans permalink
photo

If there is a 4th quarter drop in GDP growth, then yes, we will be in a recession. Until then... no.

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm

Definitely feels like a recession, but it's caused by fear more than actual negative GDP growth.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 AM on 11/25/2008
- WhatsLeft I'm a Fan of WhatsLeft 13 fans permalink
photo

Can someone please tell me why the banks haven't lowered the interest rates on home mortgages? Hasn't the Fed lowered the rates for intra bank lending? It seems to be logical that if intrestes rates on mtgs. were around 4% people could buy homes again. What am I missing?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:41 AM on 11/25/2008

Even a 4% mortgage is out of reach if you don't have a job or are worried that you might lose the one that you do have.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:42 AM on 11/25/2008
- WhatsLeft I'm a Fan of WhatsLeft 13 fans permalink
photo

True. Maybe it is too late for it to work anyway.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 AM on 11/25/2008
- K-Dog76 I'm a Fan of K-Dog76 8 fans permalink

TruePatriot,

If you don't have a job, you really shouldn't be buying a house and you should be selling or renting out the one you have. Get a second job if you are worried about losing the one you have. They aren't hard to find, part time employment is much easier to come by than fulltime with benefits.

I rented my place out for a year when I lost my job and it kept me from losing it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:28 PM on 11/25/2008
- MikeGuy I'm a Fan of MikeGuy 3 fans permalink

The bad debt is still out there. Banks that issued the mortgages are most certainly no longer holding them (having sold them long ago in bundles), and have no incentive to lower rates. They got theirs already! The hedge funds holding the bundles of bad debt can't trace back to homeowners.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 AM on 11/25/2008
- LHoney I'm a Fan of LHoney 42 fans permalink
photo

So if you default, stop paying your mortgage, no one comes to take your house??

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:22 PM on 11/25/2008

The interest rate on intra-bank lending is whatever the Fed says it is. The interest rate for mortgages is based on whether the lenders think the will mortgage will default. Right now, that is very likely, so mortgage interest rates remain high.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 AM on 11/25/2008
- K-Dog76 I'm a Fan of K-Dog76 8 fans permalink

WhatsLeft, BlackbirdHighway,

Long-Term memory here should solve a few things. Mortgage rates in 1990 were 9.5% or higher the entire year, in 1982 they were at 15%... they are currently fluctuating between 6 and 6.5%. Interest rates are still pretty darn low.

Interest rates at 4%??? Where does the bank get the money to loan at 4%. Banks need investors (savings accts, CDs and other paper) to be able to loan the money in the first place. A 4% yield does not inspire people to save money, they would be at inflation risk. So instead people through their cash in the stock market where returns were better...

It used to be if you saved money you made money, then banks began lending for next to nothing and that is a major part of the problem now. If there is no way for people to make money by saving it, banks won't have the capital to lend.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 PM on 11/25/2008
- GaBu I'm a Fan of GaBu 23 fans permalink
photo

Seem Barry is a bad word around here.

Causes people to get a hu ff y.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:47 AM on 11/25/2008
- CaptD I'm a Fan of CaptD 19 fans permalink
photo

I'd like to suggest that the NEW Fed also consider "jump starting" the recovery ASAP, here is how:

1. Allow each taxpayer to withdraw $10,000 per person or $20,000 per family from their IRA's TAX FREE in 2008 & 2009. This would be something that is easy to understand, fast to sign into law and would help our economy NOW.

2. Give home owners the same low rates that the big banks are getting so they can make their homes energy efficient using Solar panels and Solar hot water heaters. This will save the US much "wasted" energy and create jobs now.

3. Start increasing rates on Banks that are not loaning money out; it does no good to help bank if the Banks are not helping Americans get loans .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 AM on 11/25/2008

It would be good to hear some relief plans for those that might actually deserve some help.

Today, i joined the ranks of unemployed from a wealthy, profitable "American" company, being over 50, and watching my 401k get hammered, denial of retirment options after many years of loyal & productive work makes me wonder what plans will be for me and my family ?

Unfortunately, like many others today our retirement dreams are shot. We now have the wealthiest (American) companies on the planet tossing productive, tax paying, responsible employees out on the street for cheaper "resources" anywhere else but in the U.S.A.

And where's our American plan ? Where's our relief ? Trillions upon trillions $$$s of bailout, relief, etc..... and minimal to no accountability. Is this the Plan ? Is this "our" dream ?

CaptD, we need more than a plan based on how things are being run today. Wish us all good luck we have precious little left the way things are going.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 AM on 11/25/2008
- GerryS I'm a Fan of GerryS 39 fans permalink
photo

the ostrich with it's head in the sand is always the last to know about the grass fire,

or that it's fanny is on fire-----------

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 AM on 11/25/2008
- GaBu I'm a Fan of GaBu 23 fans permalink
photo

Profound and exactly what I'd expect from you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 AM on 11/25/2008
- GerryS I'm a Fan of GerryS 39 fans permalink
photo

you too-

GaBu See Profile I'm a Fan of GaBu I'm a fan of this user permalink

I sure hope things change.

Reply Favorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 AM on 11/25/2008

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:47 AM on 11/25/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
photo

Obama's Health Care Team: They Mean Business

Today the Obama transition office will announce its health care policy team. As expected, Tom Daschle will be leading it. According to sources closes to the transition, he'll be joined by a set of analysts including Lauren Aronson, Mark Childress, Dora Hughes, and Jeanne Lambrew. Harvard economist David Cutler will be serving as a part-time, outside advisor, reprising a role he served during the campaign. Among the other outside advisers are Jonathan Blum, Rahul Rajkumar, Terrell McSweeny, and Jenny Backus.

--Jonathan Cohn

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/11/25/obama-s-health-care-team-they-mean-business.aspx

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 AM on 11/25/2008
- GaBu I'm a Fan of GaBu 23 fans permalink
photo

So Govt. wants to get car loans back on track again.

Yet Govt. seem pretty comfortable with letting the 'big 3' fail.

Thus govt. seems to want us to buy Asian and European cars.

Govt. sucks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 AM on 11/25/2008
- Rebecca I'm a Fan of Rebecca 37 fans permalink
photo

Geeze, this Republican financial rollercoaster is getting tiresome.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:35 AM on 11/25/2008

Barry will save you, just have "faith."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 AM on 11/25/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 233 fans permalink
photo

But who's going to save you?

:]

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 AM on 11/25/2008
- argent1 I'm a Fan of argent1 16 fans permalink

Is Goldwater back from the dead?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:49 AM on 11/25/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
photo

You know things are bad for Republicans when they start quoting Thomas Sowell.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 AM on 11/25/2008
photo

As a libertarian, I've enjoyed several of his books over the years. Why wouldn't anyone quote him?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 AM on 11/25/2008
photo

I feel "audacity" and also there are great things about hope like that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 AM on 11/25/2008

"Audacious," maybe?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:38 AM on 11/25/2008

I keep reading and hearing news of the worsening economy. The common measuring stick seems to be Wall Streets reaction. Why would I, or anybody else, trust the credibility of Wall Street. The Dow may be an important barometer for many things, but I submit that it is intellectully lazy for reporters to continually refer to it as though it were the font of all wisdom.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 AM on 11/25/2008
- SailFree I'm a Fan of SailFree 29 fans permalink

Why? Because it consists, in the main, of people behaving in their own best interests. The question you should ask is why should you trust the credibility of government agents and the news media, most of which now seem to have lost all credibility by acting as partisan ideologues, shilling for their favorite candidates rather than reporting news reliably and impartially. For one example...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:39 PM on 11/25/2008
Page: « First ‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Next › Last » (16 pages total)
Comments are closed for this entry

 You must be logged in to comment. Log in  or connect with 

Connect