Rachel Maddow, Dahlia Lithwick On Obama And War Crimes (VIDEO)

On last night's Rachel Maddow show, Maddow engaged Slate's Dahlia Lithwick in a discussion on how Barack Obama might tend to some of the more morally troubling aspects of the outgoing Bush administration -- issues like torture and detention and rendition. Initially, Lithwick says, she was optimistic that an Obama administration would follow through on promises to close Gitmo and bring a halt to the practice of torture. But there's been some hedging.

"I've been waiting for war crimes tribunals to get sexy," Lithwick quipped,. "For folks like me, who have been covering Padilla and covering Moussaoui, covering Gitmo, covering waterboarding for years, we were waiting for this moment for [Obama] to say, as he said, days after the election...we're closing Guantanamo...and within hours, they kind of pulled back on it a little bit." Lithwick noted that the camp is taking a "turn the page" line on potential prosecutions, that it wasn't a matter the Obama team "wanted to expend capital on." "My feeling is," Lithwick said, "if you don't want to expend capital on war crimes, what do you want to spend it on?"

I've long been a fan of Lithwick's, and my heart on the matter is very much in alignment with hers -- torturers should be punished. Abrogations of legal rights must not be tolerated. Nevertheless, I get the distinct impression that the Obama camp has always been of the mind that they could either jump out on January 20, 2009 and start repairing the damage of the Bush administration or set out on a broad campaign of investigations and hearings to elucidate and punish wrongdoing, but that they could not do both, and so were going to follow the former path.

Moreover, while I feel pretty strongly about loudly holding Obama to his promise to end these evil practices and close Guantanamo Bay, I don't recall the campaign promising anything about prosecutions or war crimes tribunals. There's always been a strong, undercurrent theme of reconciliation in Obama's rhetoric. On balance, I'm satisfied with reconciliation playing a part in future governance, but as someone who's long been convinced that the nation was dragged into a moral cesspool by men like David Addington and John Yoo, I'll admit it's a bitter pill.

Lithwick is more bullish on the choice of Eric Holder as Attorney General. "He's been a lifer at Justice, he really cares about the Department. I think it broke his heart, what happened to the Department under Alberto Gonzales, and I have the sense that he's going to fight the good fight."

Comments

[Charmed]

Did Obama get sworned in and I missed it?

[kdublya]

Drop Bush/Cheney off at a superfund site.

[loper2008]

We need to do something about Bush/Cheney war crimes but I have no idea what to do.

[Yermammy]

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/ http://capusawc.org/
Glad you asked. The capusawc site is brand new and not quite done yet, but there's stuff there to get you started. Thanks for asking. We patriots can make this happen! YES WE CAN!

[Yermammy]

Wow... Just wow. I'm so in love with this Country right now! We've got to KEEP this debate going. This is too important to let up on. Andrew Johnson was impeached in THREE DAYS. The verdict doesn't even have to be IN to STOP the pardoning powers (to rebut what BLinCincinnati just said). Once the Impeachment proceedings START, the pardoning powers are rendered NULL & VOID. Waiting until AFTER they leave office is not only foolish, it allows all the pardons to STAND. Please, baby jesus, would people just READ a little about the law and the Constitution and leave the armchair for football. The good thing about it, though, is even if they escaped Impeachment, there's PLENTY of avenues to prosecute these criminals. And pardoning only shields them from FEDERAL prosecution. There's still State, local and International laws that can be used (and we WILL).

[ReesieKitty]

I agree that whatever policy is officially enacted regarding war crimes and their potential prosecution, it will happen AFTER Obama is sworn in. I don't think he needs to tip his hand about what they plan to do, just to hold the hands of supporters. I am betting it will come down first to a fact-finding commission, similar to 9/11, and then we'll see what happens. Don't forget, there are going to be boatloads of mid-level people at Justice and other departments who will be able to speak MUCH more freely under a new administration. I think all sorts of things will come out in due time. I do think crimes were committed and I'd like to see them prosecuted, but at the same time, I think our main priority there should be to have trials for prisoners if needed and get them processed and close Gitmo. Once that's done, go after the criminals- but there are a lot of people who have been imprisoned long enough.

[Telemachus]

What ReesieKitty said. I don't know offhand what the statute of limitations is on these crimes, but if it's due to run out before 2011 on any of the suspects, the first thing to do is extend it. Keep these guys sweating for a while.

[Yermammy]

There are no statute of limitations on First Degree Murder. That's what Bush, Cheney, Rice, Addington, Yoo and Rumsfeld will be accused of. Vincent Bugliosi wrote a book on the subject. Very thorough.

[OldKnute]

Yes ReesieKitty,

I agree.

We are well aware of what gets out into the Media and that alone, is a House of Horrors. As you say, what further will come out in due time as Obama sets the climate for truth to be heard?

In due time,,, to be sure.

The argument given for the pardoning of Nixon is but a small example. (Comparatively) Supposedly,, for the GOOD of the Country. I disagreed completely with the Nixon Pardon. The Law should be the Law, cornerstone of a sought after and desired “Equality” as a people and as a Nation.

I mean,, look the mess,,, Torture, Gitmo, Rendition, violations of airspace, falsifying reasoning for war, failed attacks in Somalia, Lebanon, abductions in foreign countries, the manipulation of the Media, Outing CIA oppertives, NO WMDs, NO Yellow Cake, The break in at the Niger embassy in Rome, False Intelligence to Germany, France, England and America, Abramoff, Oil Leases for sale in Iraq, The whole Justice department debacle, NO Bid contracting, Secret Prisons, Credit Market manipulations, Bailouts gone wrong, Blackwater. Katrina, 9/11 itself, bin Laden, deceptions of al Qeada Iraq connections, Enron, Proto Bay, Scooter Libby, Corporate Welfare the integrity of the American Foreign services restoration of Constitutional Law.

You are right, Kitty.

In due time.

These examples, are just off the tope of my head.

May God help Obama,,,, AND US,, just to sort through it all.

All the best

Knute

[peacegurl48]

Give the man a chance to get in the friggin' White House!

[lovesds]

LADY PLEASE SHUT UP. OBAMA IS GOING TO DO THINGS HIS WAY.

[zizyphus]

Dahlia would look better with a more sophisticated hair style. The long curls are just incongruous on her. I can't hear what she is saying for all that hair.

[honeydiva]

Lawd, please help the shallow.

[wonder6789]

I DIG her hair. Bohemian Marie-Antoinette.

[BLinCincinnati]

All during this segment I'm sitting there thinking:

"Come on... you are both smart people. Do you REALLY think Obama would even give a hint of persuing war crimes or other issues against Bushies... while Bush is still in charge and has the Pardon pen?"

You do it AFTER you are in office.

[jigisup]

Very good point!