SoCal Toys 'R' Us Shooting Leaves Two Dead

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GILLIAN FLACCUS | 11/28/08 09:24 PM | AP

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PALM DESERT, Calif. — Two men pulled guns and shot each other to death in a crowded toy store Friday after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said. Scared shoppers fled but no one else was hurt.

The violence erupted on Black Friday, the traditional post-Thanksgiving start of the holiday shopping surge, but authorities indicated the shooting wasn't related to a shopping frenzy.

Riverside County sheriff's Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez said the fight was not over a toy. He said handguns were found by the men's bodies, but he released little other information. He would not answer a question about whether the shooting was gang-related.

Witnesses Scott and Joan Barrick said they were checking out of the store when the fight began between two women, each with a man. The women were near the checkout area, but the Barricks did not think the women had purchases.

One woman suddenly started punching the other woman, who fought back as blood flowed from her nose, Scott Barrick, 41, said.

The man who was with the woman being punched pulled a gun halfway out of his pocket, then shoved it back in, he said.

"He pulled his gun right next to me. I turned to look for my wife, and she was already hiding," Barrick said.

"I was scared," said Joan Barrick, 40. "I didn't want to die today. I really didn't want to die today, and I think that's what we were all thinking."

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The other man pulled a gun and pointed it at the first man but forgot to cock it, Scott Barrick said. The first man tried to run but was blocked by the line of people, then ran back toward the store's electronics section as the other man fired his gun, he said.

The first man reached a dead-end in electronics, turned around and ran toward an exit, pulling his gun and firing back, he said.

"He went up to the cash register, he went to put his hand on the thing and he just went phoomp," he said, indicating the man fell.

He said he did not see what happened to the other man.

Palm Desert Councilman Jim Ferguson said police told him two men with handguns shot and killed each other.

"I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys "R" Us?" he said. "I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper."

Ray Turner, 20, said he was two aisles away when two women began shouting and screaming at each other and he had a clear view of the fight until a crowd clustered around them. Both women had children, he said.

"We thought it was just a fight and then someone yelled, 'He's got a gun. He's got a gun.' You really couldn't see nothing because there was a crowd," Turner said.

Rafael Gomez, 11, said he and his father had been in the store about 20 minutes before the shooting but were in a nearby Pizza Hut when they saw people pouring out of the store screaming.

"We just saw them running and crying. I was kind of scared," Rafael said. "We got lucky."

Toys "R" Us issued a statement expressing outrage over the violence.

"We are working closely with local law enforcement officials to determine the specific details of what occurred," the statement said. "Our understanding is that this act seems to have been the result of a personal dispute between the individuals involved. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to associate the events of today with Black Friday."

The Barricks and others remained at the scene long after the shooting because investigators would not allow cars to be taken from the parking lot until a crime-scene reconstruction was completed.

Palm Desert is a resort town about 120 miles east of Los Angeles.

PALM DESERT, Calif. — Two men pulled guns and shot each other to death in a crowded toy store Friday after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said. Scared shoppers fled but no ...
PALM DESERT, Calif. — Two men pulled guns and shot each other to death in a crowded toy store Friday after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said. Scared shoppers fled but no ...
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- Mystic01 I'm a Fan of Mystic01 20 fans permalink

All this during the season when we celebrate the birth of the Prince of peace, who taught us to live non-violently and to get rid of our weapons, because "he who takes the sword shall die by the sword."

And does anybody still think concealed weapons laws are a good idea?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:00 PM on 11/30/2008
- steve12 I'm a Fan of steve12 14 fans permalink

Getting a concealed weapons permit in California is generally very difficult.

These guys obviously were breaking the law, just concealing a gun. I am curious as to whether drugs or alcohol were involved. There must be more to this story than what we're reading at present.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 PM on 11/30/2008
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Is that what Jesus taught you? I believe he missed more than a couple of truants. I'd rather ki// by the swode than die by it, given the choice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 PM on 11/30/2008
- InedaName I'm a Fan of InedaName 9 fans permalink
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Over the last few years the Christmas season seems to bring out the absolute worst of humanity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:10 PM on 11/30/2008
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Sad, the guys should have at least let the women finish the fight in regulation before going to suddendeath.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:20 PM on 11/30/2008
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Ok so i assume these were hispanics.­And why does the story only focus on the first guy.I mean geesh,i wanna know what happened to the other guy as well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:19 PM on 11/30/2008

Just curious "Freedom" ....WHY do you "assume they were hispanics"??

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:22 PM on 11/30/2008
- suec03 I'm a Fan of suec03 11 fans permalink

Check KESQ TV website for local coverage and witness accounts of what happened.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 12/01/2008
- samaire I'm a Fan of samaire 15 fans permalink
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Why would you take a gun into a Toys R Us? At least shooting each other saves everyone the hassle and expense of a trial-idiots!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 PM on 11/30/2008
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I notice some pro-gun posts on this thread, and I have a question. If, as so many pro-gun people argue, having guns protects people, and to quote a previous post here, "when you outlaw the guns, only the outlaws have guns" WHY does the US have the highest murder and violent crime statistics in the western world (by several multiples in most cases)? What's the cause of this, if it's not the gun laws?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:43 PM on 11/30/2008

Guns are not the problem people with no self control are. If you think gun bans stop crime your glib. D.C. 's crime rose when they banned guns and Austrailia had the same results. Violent people do violent things gun or no guns. Gun bans disarm law abiding citizens because most murderers and criminals do not legally purchase weapons. Guns cause crime like flies make trash.
Obviously these two men were not law abiding citizens by evidence of their violent display. I own and carry a weapon for defence of myself and my family please do not lump me together with gang members and criminals.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:32 PM on 11/30/2008
- RogHol I'm a Fan of RogHol 4 fans permalink
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Dear freedm...
People with no selfcontrol will be avilalabe over the forseeable future so you have to focus on gun control in the end anyway...
And yes, gun control helps if you give it time...
In USA it may take some years before you see any results...
Unnecessary deaths are stupid deaths. and of course, destructive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:59 PM on 11/30/2008
- jalowe1957 I'm a Fan of jalowe1957 40 fans permalink
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Another day, another televised and megaphoned depiction on the evening news of the complete breakdown and its by-products, a blowback consequence of societal ills.

Pathetic, isn't it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:30 PM on 11/30/2008
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I don't agree with some of the ignorant association with "so cal" and meth on this board. This incident took place in the Inland Empire, which DOES happen to have the largest meth problem in california, if not the entire country. However, it doesn't drastically bleed into LA, or San Diego, or really anywhere else in Southern California. It stays pretty planted in the I.E. A good reference film to watch on this for those interested would be "SPUN". A pretty crazy film.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 AM on 11/30/2008
- suec03 I'm a Fan of suec03 11 fans permalink

Don't forget that there is also a serious meth problem in California's Central Valley. It is a rural phenomenon, where meth is manufactured in out of the way places like barns and farm houses, not just in the mobile homes and motel rooms you see on TV.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 AM on 11/30/2008

Scientifc research has proven gun loving men have very little self-esteem. And the weapon somehow prolongs their tool, so we can expect some impotence as well. All these ingrediences in a materialistic society where he who has the most toys wins although he still dies. The place where they had the argument doesn't matter. Not being able to solve this peacefully like grown up men would do is just sad and stupid. I mean, your parents bring you up, you have a job and a family and then you lose your life at Toys R Us over some disagreement? Pathetic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:04 AM on 11/30/2008

I have a gun and my self esteem and tool are just fine thank you. p.s. I love people not things.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:44 PM on 11/30/2008
- steve12 I'm a Fan of steve12 14 fans permalink

I see no problem in having a gun. I do see a problem in having a gun on your person, unless you're hunting or target practicing. Concealed weapons have no place in a toy store.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 PM on 11/30/2008
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

I think Massad Ayoob said it well--if guns were a phallic substitute--no male would buy a J frame or SP101 snubby

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:07 PM on 12/01/2008
- Js420 I'm a Fan of Js420 2 fans permalink

I've lived here for 7yrs, moved from NoCA. There's a HUGE meth problem here. Damn gangsters & drug addicts all over the place. But in this Republican territory where they wont spend money on public safety or rehab. this problem will unlikely go away

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:47 PM on 11/29/2008
- suec03 I'm a Fan of suec03 11 fans permalink

I'm aware of the meth problem in Southern California and the Central Valley. Are you saying there isn't a meth problem in Northern California?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:58 PM on 11/29/2008

I wonder what those disgusting women will tell their children, on how they started a fight in Toys 'R Us and got their fathers killed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:28 PM on 11/29/2008
- ranch111 I'm a Fan of ranch111 7 fans permalink
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SoCal, the happiest place on Earth because it's sunny everyday!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:38 PM on 11/29/2008
- ranch111 I'm a Fan of ranch111 7 fans permalink
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I see the pattern of violence. Don't shop where ignorant tools shop en mass.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:19 PM on 11/29/2008
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There seems to be several individuals that are blameworthy here, given the limited "information" supplied. A woman initiated verbal 'violence'. A woman initiated physical violence. A woman responded in kind. Her(?) husband(?) let it be known that he was armed with deadly force. The other man attempted to kill him with his gun. The first man ran and only fired when cornered, and possibly already mortally wounded. Whatever happened to wood toys w/o batteries?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:30 PM on 11/29/2008
- tomas0808 I'm a Fan of tomas0808 9 fans permalink

The realization is hitting people that The American Fantasy is coming to an end and it's stressing them out, even the gangsta's. The Wal-Mart tragedy, this, there was another mall shooting here in Wa state where a 15 yr old kid got killed. You can be sure the MSM will be harping on these events for weeks and the right wing will latch onto it and try to parlay that into an Obama's soft on crime stance. Don't buy it. The Repubs caused this financial mess and the crime that comes along when the unsustainability of it is exposed

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:15 PM on 11/29/2008
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