SoCal Toys 'R' Us Shooting Leaves Two Dead

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GILLIAN FLACCUS | 11/28/08 09:24 PM | AP

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PALM DESERT, Calif. — Two men pulled guns and shot each other to death in a crowded toy store Friday after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said. Scared shoppers fled but no one else was hurt.

The violence erupted on Black Friday, the traditional post-Thanksgiving start of the holiday shopping surge, but authorities indicated the shooting wasn't related to a shopping frenzy.

Riverside County sheriff's Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez said the fight was not over a toy. He said handguns were found by the men's bodies, but he released little other information. He would not answer a question about whether the shooting was gang-related.

Witnesses Scott and Joan Barrick said they were checking out of the store when the fight began between two women, each with a man. The women were near the checkout area, but the Barricks did not think the women had purchases.

One woman suddenly started punching the other woman, who fought back as blood flowed from her nose, Scott Barrick, 41, said.

The man who was with the woman being punched pulled a gun halfway out of his pocket, then shoved it back in, he said.

"He pulled his gun right next to me. I turned to look for my wife, and she was already hiding," Barrick said.

"I was scared," said Joan Barrick, 40. "I didn't want to die today. I really didn't want to die today, and I think that's what we were all thinking."

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The other man pulled a gun and pointed it at the first man but forgot to cock it, Scott Barrick said. The first man tried to run but was blocked by the line of people, then ran back toward the store's electronics section as the other man fired his gun, he said.

The first man reached a dead-end in electronics, turned around and ran toward an exit, pulling his gun and firing back, he said.

"He went up to the cash register, he went to put his hand on the thing and he just went phoomp," he said, indicating the man fell.

He said he did not see what happened to the other man.

Palm Desert Councilman Jim Ferguson said police told him two men with handguns shot and killed each other.

"I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys "R" Us?" he said. "I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper."

Ray Turner, 20, said he was two aisles away when two women began shouting and screaming at each other and he had a clear view of the fight until a crowd clustered around them. Both women had children, he said.

"We thought it was just a fight and then someone yelled, 'He's got a gun. He's got a gun.' You really couldn't see nothing because there was a crowd," Turner said.

Rafael Gomez, 11, said he and his father had been in the store about 20 minutes before the shooting but were in a nearby Pizza Hut when they saw people pouring out of the store screaming.

"We just saw them running and crying. I was kind of scared," Rafael said. "We got lucky."

Toys "R" Us issued a statement expressing outrage over the violence.

"We are working closely with local law enforcement officials to determine the specific details of what occurred," the statement said. "Our understanding is that this act seems to have been the result of a personal dispute between the individuals involved. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to associate the events of today with Black Friday."

The Barricks and others remained at the scene long after the shooting because investigators would not allow cars to be taken from the parking lot until a crime-scene reconstruction was completed.

Palm Desert is a resort town about 120 miles east of Los Angeles.

PALM DESERT, Calif. — Two men pulled guns and shot each other to death in a crowded toy store Friday after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said. Scared shoppers fled but no ...
PALM DESERT, Calif. — Two men pulled guns and shot each other to death in a crowded toy store Friday after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said. Scared shoppers fled but no ...
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- RusStyles I'm a Fan of RusStyles 22 fans permalink

This is a clear sign of a sick society. And instead of seeking common-sense, long-term solutions to man's inability to control his/her temper or to be more civil to their fellow man, too many people--especially in the land of the home and brave and 2nd Rights amendment BS--offer more (concealed) guns as an option or in some cases, an actual solution to the mounting body count... This mindeset is why--post Nagasaki--so many other countries felt the need to develop nukes; when they should have never been developed from jumpstreet. One would think that after so many wars and genocidal invasions that man would have wised-up..­.Not only do guns continue to be legal inspite of their inherent stupidity, we make it easier for someone to get an handheld killing machine than to get a driver's license. No accredited training prerequisite, no mental health backgound check or psych evaluation, no competency test. That's stupidly insane!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 PM on 11/29/2008
- JoeBlough I'm a Fan of JoeBlough 60 fans permalink
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Bring back the draft and soak up the violent people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 AM on 11/30/2008
- suec03 I'm a Fan of suec03 11 fans permalink

How do you have "unit cohesion" and avoid civilian atrocities when you have reckless violent hotheads in the military?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:50 AM on 11/30/2008
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There is a very strong correlation (1.00) between having a gun and shooting someone and not having a gun and not shooting someone. If these dolts had no guns, it would have stopped at a fistfight. The irony is that both carried a gun to "defend" themselves against a gun, yet both ended up dead as a result of this strategy. Fact is that the only people who ever seem to need a gun are the same people who would use one against a human being in the first place.

SOT

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 11/29/2008
- BlueZoo I'm a Fan of BlueZoo 44 fans permalink

The stupidity of these acts just scream: The gene pool has just been enhanced!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:58 PM on 11/29/2008
- suec03 I'm a Fan of suec03 11 fans permalink

These men were in a toy store. Chances are great they left behind their own living children. Stop thinking Eugenics. That was what the Nazis believed. Think instead about where we are failing children that they would grow up to be so hypersensitive that they would not think through the consequences of their actions before brandishing or using a firearm in a crowded toy store.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 PM on 11/29/2008
- dphilip I'm a Fan of dphilip 41 fans permalink

I am a concealed wepons license holder and have been for 20 years. I take a gun evrywhere it's legal to take one. I have never been exposed to a situation that required it. Some situations I have been in I would heve been justified if I had used it. However, that is an option of LAST resort and luckily I had other optiions. I have been armed in the presence of multitudes of people in public. They never knew I was armed and that's how it is supposed to work. If I was in public and a violent situation occured.,I would evaluate whether my drawing a weapon would help or escalate the situation? Would I be further endangering innocent lives? If it became clear that unless I did take action that innocent people certainly were going to be hurt then I would do whatever I had to do to prevent that ..If you are ever in a violent situation that an armed citizen could eliminate, are you saying you would rather take your chances of dying?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 PM on 11/29/2008

It's a shame that anyone has to carry a concealed weapon in any modern society.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 PM on 11/29/2008
- suec03 I'm a Fan of suec03 11 fans permalink

The two men certainly believed they needed to carry concealed weapons for protection. Look where that got us. There is no way to ensure that every person carrying a concealed weapon has the good judgment and temperament every day to be trusted carrying a weapon in public. Even good people can snap under pressure--losing a job, home foreclosure, death of a child, etc. I would not feel safe in a society where any yahoo had a right to carry a concealed weapon in public without going through a stringent background check, including psychological, and having to prove a present credible threat to their safety.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 11/29/2008

You seem to be a little more level-headed than some others who carry concealed weapons. And part of that is that you are probably licensed and took a course on how and when to use a gun. I know people whose logic would be to show their "concealed" weapon in a desire to let it be known that they will use it. Problem is when someone else has a concealed weapon (licensed or not), they will be more likely to use it as well once they know a gun is involved, which was the situation here. Imagine if this had happened in London. Chances are the news story would have been about two women who got into a fight, which led to their husbands jumping in and all of them having bloody noses. And it would still be disgusting that anyone would do this in a toy store in front of kids - let alone their kids! But at least they'd all live to see their kids grow up and hopefully learn from this foolishness. Instead, they're stuck with these moms who started it in the first place.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:20 PM on 11/29/2008
- DragonMama I'm a Fan of DragonMama 17 fans permalink
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actually, hopefully CPS gets involved as these children are clearly NOT in a safe and stable home environment - this looks like one of those cases where a foster home or even a group home would be a more sane environment than their family of origin.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:09 AM on 11/30/2008
- bobncar I'm a Fan of bobncar 3 fans permalink

MSNBC commented on the shooting as ...."an aberation. as this is an upscale community with mostly high income retirees." Yep....it is, ....but just goes to show you the insanity of (1) our gun laws, and (2) the insanity of this stupid idea of 'balck Friday' where sanity doesn't exist. I was in this same store two days before and there was no one in there to speak of. What makes the Friday after Thanksgiving so special other than it's hyped by the big corporate stores for profit. bah humbug!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 11/29/2008
- defdes I'm a Fan of defdes 4 fans permalink

"an aberation. as this is an upscale community with mostly high income retirees."­....and allot of localities with gang members and meth users.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 11/29/2008

That store just as easily could have been full of law-abiding concealed handgun permit holders and nothing would have happened. Why? Because they are all socially adjusted LAW ABIDING people, not violent thugs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:00 AM on 12/04/2008
- FatherWolf I'm a Fan of FatherWolf 21 fans permalink

"An armed society is a polite society"

Only in the fantasies of the gun nuts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:55 PM on 11/29/2008
- exxman I'm a Fan of exxman 6 fans permalink

When you outlaw guns only outlaws have guns.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:59 PM on 11/29/2008

Check out last year's homicide statistics in... oh, let's say, Japan (we can pick other places too), we might have a more productive discussion after that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 PM on 11/29/2008
- Kenji I'm a Fan of Kenji 18 fans permalink
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"...after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said."

Did those women really erupt? Did they also spontaneously combust?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 PM on 11/29/2008

I've read comments about this event at both AOL and HP. While clearly the commenters at AOL are more racist, the contrast between the sites is not as stark as I thought it might be.

Be that as it may, I want to say that this event could have been so much worse. Other shoppers, kids, could have been killed in this shootout. I suspect, that all the talk about the death of the shooters making the planet a better place or that this was a Darwinian moment, would be tempered by the loss of truly innocent lives.

And, as to bad behavior in public, I recall how badly behaved adults sometimes were while watching their kids play Little League baseball (Nothing against Little League).

Metal detectors for Toys R Us? Where are we headed?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 PM on 11/29/2008

Two women. In a brawl. In a toy store. In front of children.

I hate to say it, but our country is going in the wrong direction. This is the kind of mentality we are dealing with.

It is a cultural thing, and alot of it stems from a mind set that is aggresive, assualting, loud, confrontational, and hostile.

A lot of it is derived from images seen and passed down in popular culture - especially rap and hip-hop. Sayings like "I will beat a bitches ass" and "I will f*** you up" and stuff like that. People hear it all the time and feed into it and it is not cool. It is savage and barbarian.

For to long this kind of media has been defended as "People talking about there streets and what they know."

That is a crap. If you sing about it 20 million times, it becomes glorification and you choose to revel in it. And I do not blame poverty, because past immigrants like Irish, Polish, and poor Jews were poor but rose above it without glorifying it in their popular culture.

People are afraid to speak against it because people play the race card and will make racisrt allegations instead of being accountable. At least Bill Cosby has the guts to come out and tell people to be responsible.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:44 PM on 11/29/2008
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I guess next we have to insust on metal detectors in toystores to protect innocent people from the crazies who want to virtually imprison the rest of us. How insane this story is: parents going to buy their children toys for Christmas--to celebrate the birth of Christ, Prince of Peace. What planet are we now living on because I no longer recognize it sometimes.­..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 AM on 11/29/2008
- ohioan73 I'm a Fan of ohioan73 24 fans permalink

Seems like an isolated incident. I don't think we'll have to wear riot gear and bullet proof vests to go shopping on Black Friday just yet but every little bit of caution helps.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 AM on 11/29/2008
- KDay I'm a Fan of KDay 2 fans permalink

What's the big deal? Seems like they took care of business. Talk about poetic justice!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 AM on 11/29/2008

KDay. Right! "business" of America!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:52 PM on 11/29/2008
- dphilip I'm a Fan of dphilip 41 fans permalink

...and if it turns out they weren't "Americans" after all? What if they were actually here Illegally?­..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 11/29/2008
- bluekatz I'm a Fan of bluekatz 13 fans permalink

The more you sit back the more you see how phucking stup!d people are around the holidays. If they are not ki ll ing they are stealing. WTF? Toy R US. These 2 women regardless of whether it was personal should have taken their crap to the parking lot instead of in the store. What makes this ridiculous is the n*tjobs ki ll ed themselves and all they had to do is stop the women from fighting. Just ridiculous.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:13 AM on 11/29/2008
- claptrapa I'm a Fan of claptrapa 7 fans permalink
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How disgusting. Americans and their guns.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:40 AM on 11/29/2008

I hope the rest of those rednecks will do the same!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:13 AM on 11/29/2008

Give it time......­.....no loss to the planet.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 AM on 11/29/2008
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