SoCal Toys 'R' Us Shooting Leaves Two Dead

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GILLIAN FLACCUS | 11/28/08 09:24 PM | AP

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PALM DESERT, Calif. — Two men pulled guns and shot each other to death in a crowded toy store Friday after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said. Scared shoppers fled but no one else was hurt.

The violence erupted on Black Friday, the traditional post-Thanksgiving start of the holiday shopping surge, but authorities indicated the shooting wasn't related to a shopping frenzy.

Riverside County sheriff's Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez said the fight was not over a toy. He said handguns were found by the men's bodies, but he released little other information. He would not answer a question about whether the shooting was gang-related.

Witnesses Scott and Joan Barrick said they were checking out of the store when the fight began between two women, each with a man. The women were near the checkout area, but the Barricks did not think the women had purchases.

One woman suddenly started punching the other woman, who fought back as blood flowed from her nose, Scott Barrick, 41, said.

The man who was with the woman being punched pulled a gun halfway out of his pocket, then shoved it back in, he said.

"He pulled his gun right next to me. I turned to look for my wife, and she was already hiding," Barrick said.

"I was scared," said Joan Barrick, 40. "I didn't want to die today. I really didn't want to die today, and I think that's what we were all thinking."

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The other man pulled a gun and pointed it at the first man but forgot to cock it, Scott Barrick said. The first man tried to run but was blocked by the line of people, then ran back toward the store's electronics section as the other man fired his gun, he said.

The first man reached a dead-end in electronics, turned around and ran toward an exit, pulling his gun and firing back, he said.

"He went up to the cash register, he went to put his hand on the thing and he just went phoomp," he said, indicating the man fell.

He said he did not see what happened to the other man.

Palm Desert Councilman Jim Ferguson said police told him two men with handguns shot and killed each other.

"I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys "R" Us?" he said. "I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper."

Ray Turner, 20, said he was two aisles away when two women began shouting and screaming at each other and he had a clear view of the fight until a crowd clustered around them. Both women had children, he said.

"We thought it was just a fight and then someone yelled, 'He's got a gun. He's got a gun.' You really couldn't see nothing because there was a crowd," Turner said.

Rafael Gomez, 11, said he and his father had been in the store about 20 minutes before the shooting but were in a nearby Pizza Hut when they saw people pouring out of the store screaming.

"We just saw them running and crying. I was kind of scared," Rafael said. "We got lucky."

Toys "R" Us issued a statement expressing outrage over the violence.

"We are working closely with local law enforcement officials to determine the specific details of what occurred," the statement said. "Our understanding is that this act seems to have been the result of a personal dispute between the individuals involved. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to associate the events of today with Black Friday."

The Barricks and others remained at the scene long after the shooting because investigators would not allow cars to be taken from the parking lot until a crime-scene reconstruction was completed.

Palm Desert is a resort town about 120 miles east of Los Angeles.

PALM DESERT, Calif. — Two men pulled guns and shot each other to death in a crowded toy store Friday after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said. Scared shoppers fled but no ...
PALM DESERT, Calif. — Two men pulled guns and shot each other to death in a crowded toy store Friday after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said. Scared shoppers fled but no ...
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GUN SELLS ARE UP I HEARD WILD WILD WEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:09 AM on 11/29/2008

Constitutional rights or not, any normal, sane person doesn't need a gun. If the NRA would not be so powerful, you could be on your way to a safer, more modern oriented society. But you remain in the stone age, and many more will get killed until you come to your senses.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:00 AM on 11/29/2008

Maybe we should exchange it for the communist manifesto. Last time I checked I can kill someone without a gun.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:21 PM on 11/30/2008
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

Nor does a normal sane person need to post here on Huffington Post or on the internet, but then again, I am prejudiced--I collect books, DVDs and guns and I enjoy both target shooting and the fact that if I have to go through another Rodney King riot or when SoCal gets another destructive quake or wildfire, I have the tools to defend my family.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 PM on 12/01/2008

You have nothing to fear from a normal, sane person whether they have a gun or not. Unless you are a criminally insane person, who tries to assault the normal, sane person who has a gun. Then you may learn the consequences of a person's inalienable right to self defense.

Stone Age? This is no Stone Age. In the Stone Age, the biggest and strongest ruled. In the modern age, tools allow a 90 year old grandmother can defeat a 19 year old thug.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:12 AM on 12/04/2008

Well according to California Law, the two women who started the fight could be charged with Felony Murder and be eligible for the Death Penalty

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 AM on 11/29/2008
- mathme I'm a Fan of mathme 32 fans permalink
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Great, that makes sense, too. I think it's fairly safe to say that everyone involved made poor relationship choices.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 AM on 11/29/2008
- rektruax I'm a Fan of rektruax 18 fans permalink
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Good... More air for me!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 AM on 11/29/2008

and who pays for the care of the kids. The air they breathe doesn't cost anything, its free.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:07 AM on 11/29/2008
- Smurfaveli I'm a Fan of Smurfaveli 76 fans permalink
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For this reason, I go no where without my registered .40 caliber Smith and Wesson SW99. I'm licensed to carry it concealed and have no intentions to stop. I grew up in a bad neighborhood where I was robbed twice and now live in Metro Detroit. Having my weapon on me has already saved my life once.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:35 AM on 11/29/2008
- mathme I'm a Fan of mathme 32 fans permalink
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I'm sure that both of those people were happy to have their guns, too. They both managed to take down their shooters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:39 AM on 11/29/2008

Before we launch into the More Gun Control issue.....I doubt seriously that either gun fired was a legally obtained firearm.
(if neither of these guys had had a gun they might have stabbed each other repeatedly or beat each other with clubs.....how do you stop the urge/necessity/desire to harm each other?)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 AM on 11/29/2008

"I'm sure that both of those people were happy ..."

I am sure none were happy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:03 AM on 11/29/2008

Too bad you have to live like a prisoner in your shitehole.

If you ever have enough money or time go visit the modern world but leave your gun behind, please.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:14 AM on 11/29/2008
- dphilip I'm a Fan of dphilip 41 fans permalink

Your comment was quite foolish. It is his firearm specifically that allows him to leave his "shitehole"
Sigmund Freud: "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarted sexual and emotional maturity"
Does this accurately describe you? I suspect it probably does..You are likely projectecting your inability to defend yourself or others from physical confrontations by dismissing those that can and will as the "intllectual weak". "I'm too smart to defend myself with force"..indeed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 11/29/2008
- FatherWolf I'm a Fan of FatherWolf 21 fans permalink

And it you had been present at this incident, what do you think you would have done?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 11/29/2008

Absolutely nothing but watch. From cover. This was a social situation taken to the asocial level. There is nothing anyone other than the actors could have done to improve this situation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 AM on 12/04/2008

Right on. I also live in the metro detroit area and carry for the same reason. I rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Its funny how these people think banning our rights will make the world safe. As if criminals will quit being criminals because they can't legally buy guns. btw I carry XD9 or sp101

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:26 PM on 11/30/2008
- hildutus I'm a Fan of hildutus 6 fans permalink

I thought carrying concealed weapons was supposed to keep such things from happening.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 AM on 11/29/2008

well it kind of did, they shot each other to death

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:12 AM on 11/29/2008
- dphilip I'm a Fan of dphilip 41 fans permalink

No. it just gives you the option to defend yourself if it does....
Would an ambulance on every corner prevent car accidents?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 11/29/2008
- FatherWolf I'm a Fan of FatherWolf 21 fans permalink

Tell us -- who was defending himself in this case?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:58 PM on 11/29/2008

Just like a police force is supposed to stop crime.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:28 PM on 11/30/2008

No doubt illegal immigrants that should not have been in California in the first place.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:25 AM on 11/29/2008
- meede I'm a Fan of meede 37 fans permalink

And you know this for fact or are you adding to racial situations everywhere through speculation and rumor. You don't know so don't say it. People with your knee jerking racial comments cause many problems, fights.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:53 AM on 11/29/2008

I have lives in southern California most of my life, these individuals are not American citizens.

"The victims were identified as Alejandro Moreno, 39, of Desert Hot Springs, and Juan Meza, 28, of Cathedral City".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:23 AM on 11/29/2008

No doubt? Then you must have more information than has been reported in this story. Or do you simply assign all acts of violence to illegal immigrants, because legal citizens never commit crimes, right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:58 AM on 11/29/2008

This incident puts a new meaning into the concept of "holiday spirit". Americans have become the rabid animals of consumerism of the modern Romanesque world we deserve.
Be proud people, be proud.
This relfects poorly on all of us as a society, just like the poor $7.50 per hour Wal Mart employee who was trampled to death in the suburbs of Long Island by insane consumers all for cheap Chinese crap.

What's next?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:44 AM on 11/29/2008
- rzzza I'm a Fan of rzzza 22 fans permalink

if you read the article you would know this was a personal dispute and not about consumerism-it just happened to occur in a toys r us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:54 AM on 11/29/2008
- mathme I'm a Fan of mathme 32 fans permalink
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That's what toys r us said, so way to accept that as the definitive answer. They both happened to be in the store on black friday, near the check out, but they weren't there to shop. They were just strollin' the toy store. Right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 AM on 11/29/2008
- suec03 I'm a Fan of suec03 12 fans permalink

I wonder whether any of the involved parties had indulged in the kind of holiday spirits that come in a bottle? It was a four-day weekend and some people do drink more on holiday weekends.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:48 PM on 11/29/2008

I remember the good old days when men were courageous and duked it out ,,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:36 AM on 11/29/2008

back then you could beat each other up and men usually would up shaking hands.

Now they have to attend a funeral.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:41 AM on 11/29/2008
- rzzza I'm a Fan of rzzza 22 fans permalink

real men would have broke their women up and tried to keep them in check, not escalate the violence.

and real women would not break out into a fistfight infront of their children in the first place

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 AM on 11/29/2008

Yeah, I remember all of those stories about how the Mafia used to duke it out during prohibition. People like Machine Gun Kelly, John Dillinger, and Baby Face Nelson all got their fame by beating people up with their fist and shaking hands afterwards.

Oh yeah Billy the Kid, Doc Holiday, and Jesse James were also good fist fighters too, they just gave them guns to make the movies more exciting.

Yeah, those were the good ol' days. Oh wait none of those people weren't minorities so their senseless violence gets glorified

Dream On

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:33 AM on 11/29/2008
- Dannydel I'm a Fan of Dannydel 19 fans permalink
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And when men weren't afraid to tell people where they live. You must be embarassed eh? I'll bet you're a right wing 'Christian God Botherer' who lives with his mum in some broken down tenement in New Jersey.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:53 AM on 11/29/2008
- Tenley I'm a Fan of Tenley 15 fans permalink

Actually, the elite good old men shot each other in duals

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:22 PM on 11/29/2008

Oh! for the future days. When we can all get along.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:24 PM on 11/29/2008
- marko77 I'm a Fan of marko77 33 fans permalink

yeah, "it feels good to be a gangsta......"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:24 AM on 11/29/2008

Exactly. When "keepin it real" goes wrong

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:47 AM on 11/29/2008
- suec03 I'm a Fan of suec03 12 fans permalink

"Keepin it real" seems like an ego trip that doesn't take into account the possible consequences on your own family when you resort to violence.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 11/29/2008
- rzzza I'm a Fan of rzzza 22 fans permalink

look truthaboutiraq, you seem to have a dislike for americans but let me tell you: civilization trades safety for convenience all the time. Think about all the deaths caused every year by automobiles. Yet that is a risk we as society accept, we trade safety for the convenience of driving.

same thing with guns, a few thousand deaths every year is an acceptable sacrifice to me in exchange for the guaranteed right to bear arms. These two particular people did not use their right in a responsible way, but that doesnt speak to the millions of americans who responsibly exercise their right to bear arms.

I know this is a liberal site and i myself am quite liberal, but on gun rights i am downright rightwing, i believe in it wholeheartedly and no amount of annual deaths will convince me that it is a right that should be taken away.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:58 AM on 11/29/2008
- archanjo I'm a Fan of archanjo 32 fans permalink
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Once upon a time I was shopping in a late night convenience store on the South Side of Chicago and the police burst in, because, unbeknown to me, a robbery had been reported in progress.

I was in the back at the cooler getting my Arizona Iced Tea(Green with Ginseng) when I heard them yell "Every one with a gun, drop it." I heard that about 8 guns hit the floor and there were 5 of us there and I was unarmed.

Now I, a radical, with a shady background of paling around with in Hyde Park with Weatherman types, Black Panthers, white working class revolutionaries and Sandanista supporters believe absolutely in the right to bear arms. But surely, going shopping with 9mm and Tech-9 pistols to buy Iced Tea is a bit over the top.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:19 AM on 11/29/2008

Hey, I am all for Americans having more guns........the more the better.........

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:27 AM on 11/29/2008

WE will just stand by and watch..................certainly won't be going there on vacation anytime soon

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:29 AM on 11/29/2008

same thing with guns, a few thousand deaths every year is an acceptable sacrifice to me in exchange for the guaranteed right to bear arms.

If the majority of your society will agree to this statement you must be living in the stone age. I know the background with the 2nd amendment and stuff, but why are you people so hung up on firearms ? We have a much lower death rate in all European countries and of the reasons is guns are not so easily bought. We are no better people than you, there is enough crime in Europe as well, but a huge majority would never agree to the right of bearing guns for "normal people". Justice is done by the police, period. To accept a few thousands deaths every year is more than cynical, it shows little respect for life.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:37 AM on 11/29/2008
- rzzza I'm a Fan of rzzza 22 fans permalink

what do you do when the police are no longer trusted by the community to dispense justice? As an american i know my early american history, when local militias loyal to britain during the revolutionary war would run amok killing colonial revolutionaries.

In modern times, some police departments are still notoriously corrupt and are known for abusing a large segment of society theyre charged with protecting. Think LAPD, or civil rights protests during the 60's. We're getting into a bit of a farfetched scenario here but i think you know where I'm going with this.

I'm 100% pro-2nd amendment rights

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:53 AM on 11/29/2008
- rzzza I'm a Fan of rzzza 22 fans permalink

we accept death in exchange for convenience all the time, you wouldnt call that cynical. the pharmaeutical industry is responsible for annual overdose deaths, nobody is saying we should ban drugs. Because we know that drugs do a lot of good despite a few thousand people misusing them. Same for cars or boats or guns.

im not being overly cynical i think its just the right dose of cynicism and realism here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:13 AM on 11/29/2008
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 187 fans permalink
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Gotta have something in one's pants to feel the man

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:22 AM on 11/29/2008

Wow. I respect the police, but I don't trust them.

I don't accept your premise. Banning guns won't stop violent deaths.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 AM on 12/04/2008

Internet shopping here I come.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:58 AM on 11/29/2008
- Tinkeraw I'm a Fan of Tinkeraw 2 fans permalink

No kidding!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:35 AM on 11/29/2008

Okay, have your stupid shootouts, I don't care. Just don't do it in a Toys 'R' Us where all the kiddies are gathered around.

Combined with the deaths directly associated with shopping, it makes me feel pessimistic about humanity. And this is coming from someone who shouldn't be so cynical yet.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:50 AM on 11/29/2008
- rzzza I'm a Fan of rzzza 22 fans permalink

i dont see why children should be sheltered, in the words of george carlin...enough of this child worship. We're all children, we're just children that have been on the earth longer.

someone shooting at me, i don't stop to think if children are around before i try and defend myself.

what were they supposed to do, stop and say "ok we'll kill eachother but lets do it at a preodrained place and time, where children arent present." it doesnt work that way, unfortunatly, if these people were capable of such rational thinking they wouldnt be shooting at eachother in the first place.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:16 AM on 11/29/2008

OH MY GOD, TOO MANY SICK PEOPLE IN THE WORLD.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:46 AM on 11/29/2008
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So what were the two women fighting about, anyway? Who got the last Malibu Barbie? Pathetic! That two people would lose their lives over something as idiotic as this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:25 AM on 11/29/2008
- suec03 I'm a Fan of suec03 12 fans permalink

KESQ TV website says the two dead men at the Toys R Us have been identified. One is from Desert Hot Springs and the other is from Cathedral City.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:53 AM on 11/29/2008
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