Scientists: Revolutionary Device Can Harness Ocean Currents To Power The World

Daily Telegraph:

A revolutionary device that can harness energy from slow-moving rivers and ocean currents could provide enough power for the entire world, scientists claim.

The technology can generate electricity in water flowing at a rate of less than one knot - about one mile an hour - meaning it could operate on most waterways and sea beds around the globe.

Read the whole story: Daily Telegraph

Comments

[pentagonbomber]

This is why oil has collapsed from $150 a barrel. Folks, the landscape is changing. The Arabs overdid it and made us all hate them and made us search out alternative fuel sources.

And as it turns out, many are cheaper than oil. Much cheaper.

http://theliepolitic.com/

[jferguson]

Windpower can be cheaper. What else?

[KillTheMessenger]

Electricity does not replace oil easily without infrastructure investments which we have not made, yet. There is, currently, absolutely no economic link between the price of oil and the price of other forms of energy. But thanks for playing.

[InspiredByTruth]

In other words, electricity CAN replace oil with infrastructure investments which have yet to be made. There is already serious discussion about a new "smart grid" and converting car fleets to electric over the next decade, so this tech could play an important role in that transition.

[joebaggadonuts]

Baloney. Prius provides motive power through electricity powering the electric motor in the hybrid. It uses less oil to move the same miles over its lifetime as other similar weight vehicles. Thus, over a lifetime of use, it requires less oil, lowering the price of oil by lowering demand. Or rather it could if every car used less oil or if there were less cars, or any of a hundred other facts existed that could exist today but for folks claiming that it will take ten years to do something useful. Individuals with solar panels can provide partial power for their houses too, for example, replacing some of the reliance on the grid until it is restructured.

Kennedy asked America to put a man on the moon in ten years. America responded with a man on the moon four years early, and in so doing created a better education system than existed and a stronger military too.

Glass half full? 'nuff said.

[3dtrix]

You can't paint your house with electricity or make medicine from it - oil is precious for its complex chemistry and myriad uses, but to burn it for heat or transportation is profligate waste.

[bomec]

This technology has already been in use for decades in France. The type of dam / power plant is called a "centrale maremotrice," and there is one at the estuary of the Rance River in Brittany, where the tides are very strong, as they are at Mont St. Michel not far away. It would seem to me that similar strong tides in the Bay of Fundy in Canada might similarly be harnessed to produce electricity.

[KillTheMessenger]

This is not about dams, at all. Please read the article and don't judge by the photograph.

[Foreground]

As I understand it, the technology in question is designed to take advantage of *weak* currents, which hasn't yet been done effectively. It'll work better in strong flows, certainly, but if it proves as effective as it claims in areas of relatively weak water flow, we can utilize a lot more area for power generation with significantly less large scale impact than current hydroelectric technology of similar generation capabilities.

But as said by others, we have to wait and see the results of tests to see if this is really as efficient as it claims to be, especially considering that things that stay in one place at the bottom of a large, natural source of water would be susceptible to a myriad of natural stresses, including but not limited to rust, burial and habitation by aquatic life. I imagine that this would be somewhat less viable in areas where the generators may end up covered in coral or seaweed, for example.

[MalloMel]

I'm just wondering... who would own the patents on this, and would the energy industry buy up those patents in order to suppress this.

[KillTheMessenger]

It does not matter who owns patents because this thing does not work. So the patents are useless.

[InspiredByTruth]

Which explains why similar systems are now be worked on in other countries, and why the government is funding this project, because "it doesn't work" and of course you know more than them because you are spamming a discussion thread on it.

[frappe]

I so look forward to the day when oil is only read about in history books.

[tryharder2think]

well - most likely you nor i will be alive to see it.

i hope and dream about a day like that but everything we make is a petro by product of some sort.

plastic world...

[Troubledwawa]

An interesting idea that should be pursued.

[jferguson]

There are some problems here. controlling marine growth? maintenance? This seems to be another one of those ideas which seems so good on the face of it but is impractical because of the labor (yes LABOR) required to keep it running.

There may be some substance which could coat the cylinders and so keep them totally free of marine growth? What is it? I assume that when the barnicles build up, these devices would lose their efficiency.

Wind farms require maintenance, but the larger the windmill, the lower the maintenance cost per kWhr.

It looks like this scheme requires hundreds of relatively small cylinders. How can the method for extracting the energy from the vibration be made almost maintenance-free?

Don't hold your breaths on this one.

[ClevelandTom]

Talk to the ocean shipping people. They have generally eliminated the problem of encrustation of ship hulls. I believe it is some copper compound. I'm guessing the same could apply to these generating devices.

"Wind farms require maintenance, but the larger the windmill, the lower the maintenance cost per kWhr. "

I suppose that is true but it seems to me that the same economies of scale would apply to "farms" of these cylindar devices.

[jferguson]

Ships stay clean by moving at 15 knots and not spending any time sitting - it costs too much. Living on a boat has made me sensitive to this issue. Cuprous paint with biocides works better than no paint, but only if the boat is moved frequently or the bottom cleaned, monthly in tropical waters.

In appraising maintenance requirements for a mechanism, count the moving parts. Although one of the early wind farms, at Alta Monte pass east of Oakland, still operates, as I understand it ,the mills which fail are no longer repaired because the maintenance cost exceeds the return from the energy produced by a failed mill. This is what happens when you have a generation method involving moving parts but which produces little power per element. If the power extraction method was solid-state AND the tubes required no bearings, and they could be coated with something marine growth really hates - so far unknown substance, or ecologically unacceptabel, then maybe this could work.

In this case, it is entirely in the implementation.

[InspiredByTruth]

The cost to construct these is extremely cheap in terms of construction and materials, so building in redundancy with additional grids would not be a problem. The marine issue is not even a blip on the radar, let alone a problem, and I doubt you live in a boat, just like I doubt your other ridiculous comments you claim came from a peer review. How many posts are you going to keep spamming here trying to dampen enthusiasm for this new tech with baseless and unfounded criticisms? Go tell the scientists at Michigan your "theory" that horizontal plastic tubes on the seabed will slow the earth's rotation. I bet I could hear the laughs from New York .

[Cambridge9]

In northern France the River Rance estuary (between Dinard and St, Malo) has been in focus for the last 30 years because of the dam and it's generators which use ocean/river flow to produce electricity. While I admit that the tides in the English Channel are some of the highest in the world, it is beyond belief that the power of the tides are not harnessed in more parts of the world.

[ClevelandTom]

Actually, it isn't that surprising. In order to harness tidal energy for a turbine, you need a fairly narrow inlet from the ocean such as a river estuary. However, such locations are also likely to be harbors and using it for that and energy production can't coexist ... at least not until this new technology described in the article.

[Lemastre]

Any device more efficient than windmills deserves attention. I wonder whether such a scheme couldn't be made to respond to air movements, an environment devoid of the problems of the marine environment. Moving parts in salt water require considerable maintenance owing to encrustation with living organisms and salt corrosion. And then there's the problem of transporting the electricity to shore without great losses.

[SanderO]

Rubbish, ALL these devices would disturb the laminar flow, cause turbulence and "cancel" the energy it would seem. No?

[rektruax]

Perhaps you should read the story... No?

[whatsthatsound]

My thoughts exactly!

[tryharder2think]

ok SanderO what kind of scientist are you?

[Egalitare]

Well, you just plug in the flux capacitor and...PRESTO!

[frantaylor]

http://asmedl.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=JMOEEX000130000004041101000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=Yes

"VIVACE (Vortex Induced Vibration Aquatic Clean Energy): A New Concept in Generation of Clean and Renewable Energy From Fluid Flow"

Alas I don't have a subscription, it's impossible to tell if this is snake oil or not without reading the paper. Is there anyone out there who has read it and can comment?

[RButler]

For years, I've been wondering why the big focus on wind power when water has more energy available per square meter plus we've used water before in hydroelectric dams years ago. I live in California with a long coastline that if water was used to generate electricity we'd be in energy heaven. Who or what do you suppose would try to slow or block this technology? That's the question. I wonder how PVC pipe holds up in salt water or something like it that isn't metal that corrodes.

Imagine if we had unlimited electricity available from tidal generation. We could power cars, high speed rail, do away with natural gas and oil which could be made available for other uses besides fuel. Abundant electricity at low cost plus conservation and high efficiency electrical devices would really allow for an exciting future. And a clean future. That sounds more promising than most of the other proposals we've been hearing. Ethanol was a bad idea. Hybrid cars are only an interim fix. I don't know if solar power would ever become a large scale solution.

[bbridges1962]

Yes, I grew up in Richmond County, North Carolina. We had an energy company that used the current of the Pee Dee River. I always wondered why we couldn't use the ocean's powers. There is much power there to be harnessed. One of the posters was concerned about corrosion, and that should be a concern. I was in the Navy and I know the damage salt water can do to ships. But, on the other hand, we are pumping the earth dry of oil...it will only be a huge lump of coal one of these days. Wind and/or water energy would be a great idea, but I don't think the earth is large enough to hold enough solar panels to be an option.

[gmsand]

Similar technology was used nearly 100 years ago on the Columbia River in Washington State. I have often wondered why it was abandoned in favor of high-head dams in areas that are not in need of flood control or water storage for irrigation. I am glad to see a 21st century rethink of an old idea. We need more of this type of thinking...it will be our salvation.

[KHAAANNN]

Small dams were abandoned in the early 50's when oil supply skyrocketed and energy production was monopolized on a regional level, and the experience of the Depression in the 30's with many of the small, local power companies failing caused a rethink that resulted in the concept of a "Natural Monopoly" that would be guaranteed a minimum ROI (currently %15) in return for being state-regulated (a system that has COMPLETELY broken down due to greed and cronyism.)
Originally, these "Natural Monopolies" were not allowed to be publicly traded companies, and that too changed in the 50's. This is the central problem with these companies, they are driven by their STOCK PRICES and management's greed, while being guaranteed a profit by the public. This is a VERY bad system and has resulted in a power grid that is crumbling under it's own weight as the power companies have no incentive to perform maintenance or undertake new energy ventures that may threaten their monopolies.
Using many, small, decentralized, power production systems is FAR preferable to the massive, centralized systems we now have, where a single failure brings down the entire power grid in a region.

[KillTheMessenger]

OMG... another article that does not pass the laugh test. So first they claim they can make energy at 1 knot. Then they give you an efficiency at 3 knot. And then they assume that you don't know that the energy that can be extracted from a flowing medium scales with the third power of the velocity. In other words, the theoretical difference between 1 knot and 3 knots is a factor of 27. So if the device can produce 51W at 3 knots, it is limited to producing 2 W at 1 knot, IF it had the same efficiency at all velocities, which is highly questionable!

2 W per square meter of ocean floor is 10 times less than what mediocre solar sites can deliver. Of course, those mediocre solar sites would be right on top of your roof and not somewhere on the ocean floor...

Go home people, there is most likely nothing to see here.

[ClevelandTom]

Have you read the paper on this device? Have you read the peer reviews of this paper? I haven't and I gather you have not either. Until you do that, I suggest your skepticism is overdone. Unless you happen to be a manufacturer of wind turbines.

[KillTheMessenger]

I was referring to the article which is among the worst pieces of science reporting imaginable. In general I do not believe much in large scale marine operations because they are insanely expensive and you can look at any number of real world marine projects and you will find that I am right.

In general, I will give you the following advice: if someone says they can do something now for x dollars per unit of anything, assume that it will take them thirty more years to make it work in reality and then it will cost ten times as much as they initially claimed.

[Big0725]

Unfortunately your solar panels have a MAJOR drawback. It's called night!

[KillTheMessenger]

At least they work during the day. This thing is hypothetical and will most likely never work.

:-)

[protagonia]

KTM,

What do you see as the most viable alternative energy source?

Sunlight? Wind? Advancing the containment field technology for Cold Fusion?

[KillTheMessenger]

"What do you see as the most viable alternative energy source?"

Conservation.

"Advancing the containment field technology for Cold Fusion?"

Cold fusion does not require containment. It also does not work. And the containment of plasma in Tokamaks is an essentially solved problem. It's not the reason why we don't have commercial fusion reactors. But I don't want to write a tome about a failed technology like plasma fusion.

[Fastcad]

'Go home there is nothing to see here'

New technologies are a series of failures that accumulate into a success.
Alexander Graham Bell in his own words failed over 1000 times before he found carbon filament for the light bulb.

Ocean waves have potential to supply most of our energy for electrical and transportation fuel we need only to keep pounding away and leave no stone unturned.

DTM do you work for a power company?

[captainigor]

"Alexander Graham Bell in his own words failed over 1000 times before he found carbon filament for the light bulb.

Uh. . .I believe it was Thomas A. Edison who invented the incandescent lightbulb.

Alexander G. Bell was the telephone guy. . .

[NorthernCross]

My wife likes this, but she's just an Obama supporter. This seems a bit un-American to me.

[Jezdukowski]

You're kidding, right?

[bbridges1962]

Yes, I was being a smart a$$ in the first sentence, but only the first sentence.

[bbridges1962]

Yes, it's more American to fight Iraq for oil we are never going to see. This is not supposed to save the world, it is another source of energy...that's all. If we utilize ALL of the wind and water current options...and possibly clean coal. Face it, folks, we are going to pump the earth dry one day...then what?

[protagonia]

Your wife is "JUST" an Obama supporter??

What a pleasant household yours must be.

Could this "just" be your TV and radio programming, come to betray you as most programming is designed to do? It is your future too, you know.

Or, perhaps you do not.

Supposing the Rapture is not as predicted. Then what. We are stuck here on a poisoned sphere. Doomed to a slow dwindling down. Then, nothing. No life. Buildings and skeletons.

[3dtrix]

In my grandfather's lifetime - one man's life - men first flew (yes, the Wright brothers) and landed on the moon. In my lifetime global telecommunications and high-speed data processing shrank the globe to the size of a postage stamp. The whole world is one village now - some neighborhoods being wealthier or more dangerous than others - but as we get to know one another a little better we will find our neighbors love their children as much as we do, and want their world to be a better place as much as we do. The earth and sea can provide what we need to sustain us - our obligation is to sustain it in return.

We are surrounded with clean energy! Awash with it. The sun, the wind, the tides, the very heat of the earth's core - we do not need to poison ourselves to partake of this bounty.

I was privileged to meet Buckminster Fuller and hear him speak - he said that oil was the baby fat of this planet; we as a race had just about exactly as long as it would last to "grow up" and use it as merely a steppingstone to unlimited, inexhaustible energy. I can feel that we are on the cusp of a new era. It is so near. Can you feel it too?

What a great time to be alive!

[Jezdukowski]

Your post has made me cry. Seriously, I'm literally blubbering like a schoolgirl as I write this. Well done, sir (or madam), well done, indeed.

[3dtrix]

God bless you, dear...

[KOisGod]

Right on - the new Earth, its coming, it's going to be fun.

[LHoney]

My electric bill is $300 per month in a 14,000 sqft home with 4 people. These companies are not going to allow us to use wind or solar until they can find a way to overcharge us for it! Ever wonder why nothing has been cured in the last 50 years?? There's too much money in treating sick people. Treatments are studied, never cures... Same concept here.

[Lemastre]

First, why do you need 14,000 square feet for only four people? Second, $300 is not bad for a house that size, is it?

[rektruax]

14,000 square feet!?! That's massive... Are you sure it's 14,000? 300 bucks a month for a home that size would be a bargain. What kind of heat distribution do you use?

[truthforme]

"There's too much money in treating sick people. Treatments are studies, never cures . . ."

What a bunch of baloney. I suggest you stick to comments in which you actually KNOW something.

[MalloMel]

That's why there will never be a cure for aids.