US Fears Indian Military Response Against Pakistan

New York Times:

As evidence mounts that last week's attacks in Mumbai may have originated on Pakistani soil, American officials' aggressive campaign to strike at militants in Pakistan may complicate efforts to prevent an Indian military response, which could lead to a conflict between the bitter enemies.

In December 2001, when Pakistani militants attacked India's Parliament, and again this summer, when militants aided by Pakistani spies bombed the Indian Embassy in Afghanistan, the Bush administration used aggressive diplomacy to dampen anger in New Delhi.

Read the whole story: New York Times

Comments

[Carolab]

vishix See Profile I'm a Fan of vishix I'm a fan of this user permalink

are you dense? Tell me what I am prejudging!! LOL

************

You are prejudging Pakistan.

[vishix]

You are not giving me specific examples Carolab... what are you calling prejudging?

Pakistani military supports terrorists? YES THERE IS EVIDENCE FOR THAT

Pakistani government supported terrorists? YES

Pakistani population supports jihad against India? YES

Pakistan is a failed state? ALMOST

So tell me what I'm prejudging that isn't fact? You still don't believe the mounting evidence that these terrorists were pakistani and were trained on pakistani soil?

This isn't Iraq, we are not going to be attacking the wrong country! This is Pakistan, that we've fought 4 wars with, that we've defeated 4 times, that we will defeat for the 5th and final time!

They will never change unless we step in and finally put an end to their jihad.

[Carolab]

Your "mounting evidence" is coming from the Indian press, hardly credible in this case. There is plenty of background to suggest that there has been a campaign against Pakistan to bring it down, and that campaign has been multi-state in nature. What would the reasons be? Because Pakistan and India are enemies? Don't be ridiculous. Look at what has happened in the most recent history and then ask yourself why would Pakistan now draw fire onto itself? That makes no sense at all in view of the facts. There are plenty of reasons why Bhutto was killed that involve more than ONE nation. Bhutto's husband is now in charge, has been cooperating, and yet the U.S. has still been flying Predator drones over Pakistan, conducting CIA special ops inside its borders, behaving aggressively at its borders, and yet Pakistan is being blamed. What does that tell you?

[Carolab]

You know full well that India has been the aggressor and you also know, full well, that it was India who violated the NPT and got a nuclear weapon first.

[vishix]

LOL INDIA HAS BEEN THE AGGRESSOR??? WOW Carolab you amaze me. But please don't say such rediculous statements with facts to back it up. Now I want you to tell me when India has been the aggressor and link me to your sources. This is rich!

As for the NPT... India never signed it. India has every right to nuclear weapons. I'm sorry I didn't know that you had to be white to join the nuclear club. Heaven forbid the brown people should have the same defenses as the west!

Do you know anything about global politics and economics? In order to be respected you have to show strength. People don't take you seriously or respect you if they think you are weak. That's why no one listens to countries without nukes. You need military might to back up economic might and vice-versa.

I'll wait for your response to see how India is the aggressor. I'm glad you are finally coming out and showing your support for Pakistan :)

[vishix]

Reasons Pakistan is guilty:

1. Not destroying jihadi training camps

2. Supporting jihadi training camps for missions in Kashmir and Afghanistan

3. Having islamists in the military working with jihadi groups

4. Having islamists in the civilian government working with jihadi groups

5. Lying about not knowing about any extremist camps

6. Lying about not helping extremists plan and carry-out attacks on India

7. Past wars and conflicts have shown that Pakistan will never stop it's war of terror on India.

8. Selling nuclear secrets to Libya and North Korea and Iran

9. People of Pakistan are also guilty by not demanding an end to the terrorist camps

10. People of Pakistan are also guilty of supporting terror against India

11. People of Pakistan support Osama bin Laden

I'm tired of hearing that it's only a few extremists and not the general population. Right, and it was just a few extremists that supported the nazis right? These people need to be defeated into submission then re-educated into productive civilians in the world community.

The only course of action is war.

[SoD1]

You call engaging half thus the full entire World in nuclear Wars a ( "course of action"; why the change all of a sudden from the below, hmm?) "solution"?

your inability for reason is as astounding as War has not been the Answer after 9/11. Why do think it would be in this case, hm 'vishix?
Hmm.. Remember? All the same you listed was said to justify the "guilt" of Iraq. Were the Iraqis "guilty" for 9/11, as we know now?
India would be foolish to do exactly as the culprits expect and intended India to do - run heedlessly in a senseless but for some others highly lucrative war. We have had that same tactic “worked” 8 years ago!

The "We" btw, that can only be the one to archive any change - believe it or not- are the Indian and Pakistani People, together. No one else!

Continue to Enjoy beating the drums for wars, Bro'.

[vishix]

Iraq is not Pakistan.

Iraq's oil was the main reason for the invasion. Pakistan has nothing to offer the world. The war on Pakistan is purely to stop these terrorist attacks, which happen once a month in India.

Your english is very hard to understand so I will not comment on the rest of what you are trying to say.

[Carolab]

The ISI works with the CIA. And it works with them in Afghanistan and in Iran not in India. There is nothing to support their involvement in this attack in India; and moreover, it makes no sense.

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2042.shtml

[vishix]

The ISI isn't a puppet of the CIA. They have their own motives and aspirations. They have been implicated in the past with attacks on India. It would be naive to think there aren't people in the ISI that don't have knowledge of the Lashkar-e-Taiba.

It makes a lot of sense. Part of the modus operandi of the ISI is to help destabilize India. This regional rivalry goes beyond American politics.

[AdamAnt12]

bbednarz made a comment a little arlier saying too bad the news about one of the t e r ro ri st s still being ali ve came out....he does not de s e r ve any kind of justice...." I have to say I could not agree with this statement more even if I had made it myself.

These people do NOT understand kindness ...or leniency...they understand how to h a t e and k il l......so, let's make sure that what we do to him he understands....

[antiprop1]

"I was told to kill to my dying breath". And you took that advice to heart. Nice Job

[vishix]

The Situation:

I'm Indian (half-punjabi, half-kashmiri). First, this isn't just about terrorists. This is about The Islamic Republic of Pakistan consistently trying to undermine Indian progress. I know some of you are saying let's wait for the evidence... but if you knew the history you would know automatically Pakistan is to blame.

Pakistan is afraid of having a strong India to the south and a New Delhi influenced Afghanistan above. They do not want to be surrounded by perceived enemies. It is part national pride and part jealousy that wants them to always be better than India. Of course this will never happen given they are based on an Islamic ideology which means the population can't be free and creative.

Pakistani politicians need animostiy towards India to stay in power. Any time something bad happens they can blame India to get votes. This is the only thing that prevents Pakistan from becoming a failed state that would split into rival countries.

Because of these reasons India will always live under the threat of terrorism from Pakistan. The goal of Islamists is to re-establish the caliphate and convert everyone to Islam, especially polytheistic Hindu's.

The Solution?

WAR! We need to remove their government and turn it into a secular democracy or a STRONG dictatorship that is friendly to India and is willing to attack terrorist training camps. This has nothing to do with the US and Indians can only take so much!

[antiprop1]

vishix But what about their nuclear weapons and delivery systems? It makes it a little difficult doesn't it.

[vishix]

The threat of war escalating into a nuclear exchange is possible. Maybe cleansing Pakistan of its population isn't such a bad thing. I know India would survive, but Pakistan MUST know that it will annihilate itself if it went nuclear. It will be their choice, but Indians can no longer tolerate more innocent Indian lives being lost to the jihadi monster to the north. Think of how you felt when 9/11 happened. Now think of how Indians feel when Pakistani terrorist are setting off bombs EVERY MONTH!! IN A MAJOR CITY!

War is the only answer.

[AdamAnt12]

You are right, vishix. Indians can only take so much. And this is where the Americans are at with the I s l a m i c E x t r e m i s t s and their brand of t e r r o r. The only think we, as Americans, need to do now is convince the Progressives that it is the I s l a m i c E x t r e m i s t s that are the enemy. They are still not convinced.

I wish you well...

[SoD1]

You call engaging half thus the full entire World in nuclear Wars a "solution"?
Hmm... sounds like the Bush Dorine of The self-righteous Right of Preemptive Attacks", just that Bush "might" have forgotten, as you apparently just did too, that the same “right” can be even more easier taken by any Nation or Terroristic Organization.
Are you sure you are from India? I know the People of India to turn on their brains before they speak. Otherwise, you may have realized that your main arguments are inter-exchangeable in cases of both Indian as well as Pakistan.
Who is the “we” in “we need to remove their government and turn it into a secular democracy or a STRONG dictatorship” by the way, The U.S.A. hm?

[vishix]

You call engaging half thus the full entire World in nuclear Wars a "solution"?

---- I don't understand what you are saying... If the war between India and Pakistan goes nuclear India will survive, Pakistan will not. It will be Pakistan's choice if they want to annihilate themselves.

Hmm... sounds like the Bush Dorine of The self-righteous Right of Preemptive Attacks", just that Bush "might" have forgotten, as you apparently just did too, that the same "right" can be even more easier taken by any Nation or Terroristic Organization.

---- The Bush Doctrine is about countries that MIGHT attack USA. Pakistan has REPEATEDLY attacked India. Your comment is incorrect. This isn't about Right vs. Left, this is about what's right and necessary.

Are you sure you are from India? I know the People of India to turn on their brains before they speak. Otherwise, you may have realized that your main arguments are inter-exchangeable in cases of both Indian as well as Pakistan.

----What's interchangeable? Please explain. The Times of India (largest english newspaper in India) had the headline "IT'S WAR"... SO YOU TELL ME THE MOOD IN INDIA RIGHT NOW! Stop being so smug and pretentious and holier than thou!

Who is the "we" in "we need to remove their government and turn it into a secular democracy or a STRONG dictatorship" by the way, The U.S.A. hm?

-- We the Indian people! USA isn't the center of the world you now.

[Carolab]

It is impossible to see how this event helps Pakistan in any way.

[bbednarz]

..Should have never allowed the news that one terrorist is still alive......He doesn't deserve anything that resembles justice. The fact that they kill with impunity -.- while banking on justice by our legal systems - should have taught us something...
He Decided His Life was Forfeit - and should not be re-joyced -.- IS FORFEIT.........He should be thinking of how the relatives of those killed will be treating him -.- as they believe an eye for an eye -.- torture befits those who torture
You will not stop terrorism with kindness - as much as it would be nice to be nice, it doesn't work.
Notifing the world that one survived ?.? Only helps the killer/ terrorist -.- not the victims or their families

[vishix]

don't let emotions cloud your judgment. He should be kept alive for information and he should be studied to see why he became a terrorist. He will suffer the rest of his miserable life in a jail. Maybe execute him in a few years.

[AdamAnt12]

I agree. There is not a t e r r o r i s t out there that deserves the USA brand of justice....they are all incapable of being anything but m o n s t e r s.

[Ted LPD]

I am not afraid. India and Pakistan have been going at it like a couple of brothers for years. Maybe we should let them work it out through any means.

Just make sure they don't have collateral damage on the way! We should go after Bin Laden (kill him) and move out of the way. We shouldn't take our eyes off the economy.

[arvay]

Collateral damage?

The problem is, in addition to the millions of Indians and Pakistanis who would die, that a lot of radioactive fallout will drop to the west -- China and Southeast Asia. I doubt that the Chinese would feel indifferent to parts of their country being irradiated, to say nothing about their ally Pakistan getting nuked by India.

Any use by anyone of nuclear weapons clears all bets off the table, and no one can imagine what the ultimate result will be.

And how, exactly, do you propose "going after" Bin Laden? You think we can raise 500,000 soldiers to find this one guy who may already be dead? The Pakistani Army is already taking heavy casualties, and killing lots of people, trying to oust Islamic militants from Waziristan.

I agree that we should focus on our own economy, and withdraw speedily from Iraq and under some kind of agreement with the insurgents from Afghanistan. Our presence does more harm than good. Forget Bin Laden.

[SoD1]

You might be very correct. Arvay. It is said: "The wise man heal the source of the disease while the dumb man treat alone the "symptoms". BUT the reasons why the dumb solely treats the 'symptoms' may be because the symptoms are 'lucratively' wanted by the dumb man.

[PlainSpeak]

Hey, hey, this article is totally misleading. I don't think India will attack or bomb Pakistan, Indians have great history of tolerance (almost 5000-7000 years old). The country has been attacked and occupied by foreign forces numerous times (by Islamic invaders from M.E, Britons, French, Portugese........) and none could cause damage to India's richness, spirit and culture (there are many stories out there, some of which describe how a Muslim Invader looted India and took home so much wealth that he banished tax collection in his country for the next 3 years). They have the world's oldest religion still surviving strong without any proselytization or missionaries and they still have the strong attitude to overcome adversity. Remember, one man named Gandhi led a successful NON-VIOLENT struggle to free his country from Britain. The country is too strong and tolerant to let a moment of insanity dictate their foreign policy. Pakistan on other hand created from India 60 years back exhibits opposite qualities and probably will bear the brunt of its mis-adventures and mis-handling with religion and terrorism.

[AdamAnt12]

Even a country that is tolerant has it's limits.

[SoD1]

"US Fears Indian Military Response Against Pakistan" Hmm.. more a wishful Dreaming of 'some' few within the U.S. and surely the Military Industry Complex. But are we not forgetting a certain distinguish association here, hmm "Media People"?
The "Association" of the terrorist attack in India to Bushism Missiles attack on Pakinstan. And not to forget that the destabilistion of the entire region is even in the last Days part of the Bush Doctrine", the now by Bushism created "IDEA" of an U.S "Missile Defense Shield" directly in India??

[kimleehan]

Does'nt India have w.m.d.s .

[Crozier]

Let me understand ! We are attacked by Saudi Arabian terrorists and attack Iraq and Afghanistan. The former has no merit, and the latter is where the terrorists live and train. Our love and hate with the Ibn Saud royal family continues.

The Indians and Pakistanis are nuclear states. The Pakistani government is weak and warlords rule the NW region where bin Laden, al Q'aeda and the Taliban survive. If the Pakistani government falls, the nukes transfer to evil itself.

[hardybear]

sincere question, who stand in Pakistan to embody this 'evil'?

[Durango]

You know that Bin Ladin and al Qaida has attacked Saudi Arabia don't you?

[Carolab]

The Khobar Tower bombing marked a Clinton administration cover-up of Iran. But former FBI Director Louis Freeh goes further. He said the Khobar Tower bombing was a betrayal of Saudi Arabia, who actually sought to share information extracted from suspects with the United States.

On June 25, 1996, Saudi Hizbullah detonated 25 tons of TNT next to the Khobar Tower. The blast destroyed a U.S. Air Force dormitory in Dhahran, killing 19 airmen and injuring hundreds more. The casualties were members of the Air Force's 4404th Wing, responsible for the no-fly missions over southern Iraq in the 1990s.

For four years, the Clinton administration said virtually nothing about who carried out the bombings. In June 2001, under heavy pressure from the FBI alarmed that the statute of limitations would soon expire on some of the charges, a federal grand jury issued indictments naming Al Mughassil and Abdel Hussein Mohamed Al Nasser as the two leaders of the attack.

In all, 14 people were charged with the bombing. The indictment said the attackers came from the Iranian-sponsored Saudi Hizbullah, believed operating in the Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia.

The indictment said the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps in Lebanon’s Bekaa Valley trained Saudi Hizbullah operatives. They were then sent to the Iranian embassy in Damascus for passports and $250,000 to buy the TNT and truck. IRGC Gen. Ahmad Sharifi headed the operation.

[AdamAnt12]

We attacked iraq for harboring terrorists....remember? Please do not distort history. It is too recent of history for me to already have forgtten.

[Carolab]

We attacked Iraq on false premises of WMD, remember?

[hardybear]

I had a profound experience chatting online with some UK and India residents during the Mumbai attacks.

A query to me more than once was 'did I hate Muslims' ... 'did my fellow Americans despise all things Islam' ?

After reacting defensively and with no small amount of embarrassment, I realized what thought-provoking questions had indeed been asked. We are occupying Iraq under fictitious pretenses. Our brave troops there and in Afghanistan must daily be confronted with harsh realities of religious-based conflict that I cannot even begin to fathom. I sit in my comfy home in front of my well-equipped Notebook and needed those slap-in-the-face??'s.

Punitive organized religion is nothing new. Followers of Richard the Lionheart went to claim what they believed to be Their holy-land,catapulting 'christian' primacy at siege-barred city walls. Centuries later ...

Different weapons, different tactics.

Same conviction of divine right.

How ironic is it that many of our antecedents came here to embrace religious freedom, but we are now frequently prone to expressing and executing fear-based persecution ourselves?

At the same time, receiving positive comments on the historical nature of PE Obama's victory, hearing those euro/asian praises of us as a nation progressing far enough to elect an African American less than half a century from the Reverend Martin Luther King's assassination were pitifully welcome.

Suppose there is always plenty of work to be done to live up to our history as proponents of freedom and tolerance.

[elcojonu]

Unfortunately, Religion has always had a corrosive effect in the affairs of man.
Man drops and forgets Logic when he embraces religion; how sad.

[hardybear]

good point. elcojonu.

I can, and do, easily abandon logic when defending less core subjects than religion.

[AdamAnt12]

In some cases, yes. But it isn't just religion that does this to man. Sometimes it is the species known as woman that also clouds man's judgement.

Just an observation. And nothing against women...I am a woman...but I think this should be mentioned also, seeing as men sometimes have a clouded view when it comes to certain things.....and mostly, women are what clouds their view!!

[JulieSA]

Joseph Stalin would have agreed with that statement.

[Durango]

Anyone else remember the Bush doctrine?

Under the Bush Doctrine India is fully justified in attacking Pakistan. Whether Pakistan had anything to do with the attacks or not.

Or as in the case of Iraq and the Bush Doctrine. Whether it was laughable that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 or not.

Yet another crime brought to us by Bush/Cheney.

The WORLD needs to get together to combat crimes like what occurred in Mumbai. After all, the governments of the Islamic world are the chief enemies of the extremists.

And Iran as well. More Shia Muslims have been killed by the al Qaida clones than Westerners.

Hopefully President Obama will be able to deal with the problem of international terrorism by extremist groups in an intelligent and rational manner.

Something that has been lacking these past 8 years.

[Destin]

Your post seems to have good intentions, but a very bizarre rationalization to it, lol. Where in the hell do you get the idea that it's the Bush doctrine for India to attack Pakistan? You have that completely backwards as Bush and Pakistan are joined at the hip and that's why Bush has never willingly wanted to do anything to Pakistan. That's why Bush refuses to go after Osama, because it would involve going after the Pakistani government and military. Plus it would offend Pakistani's in general since Osama has a higher approval rating there than any other single person in the entire world.

What we SHOULD do, is form a united alliance with India and stomp the Pakistani terrorists into oblivion. Now, that doesn't mean I'm against muslims, because these terrorists are clearly not muslim or any other religion.

[Durango]

i suggest you Goggle Bush Doctrine.

After looking up the word Doctrine in the dictionary.

War between India and Pakistan?

Now there is an idea.

The most densely populated areas on earth. Between two countries with nukes. Let's kill millions of people who are not responsible for anything.

And in the chaos that results? No room for terrorists there.

Get back after you figure out what the Bush Doctrine is.

[KoolBreez]

Under the Bush doctrine, India is justified in attacking China over the Mumbai incident.

[arvay]

The Indian government is in a particularly bad situation.

Unless it can guarantee safety in places like Mumbai, Westerners and multinational corporations are going to reconsider investing in the country.

If India strikes Pakistan and a regional war erupts, they'll get the same result.

I don't think anyone, even India and Pakistan -- not to mention us, really knows who's really behind the attack, but an objective of starting a war seems very possible.

We can "counsel" the Indians, and can hope for calm, but there's going to be incredible pressure from the Indian population to strike back, just as there was here after 911. And we all know how well that went.

[CheshireCat2]

I can't imagine the Karachi has a huge welcome center for western visitors. I could be wrong.

[arvay]

No, but India's developing economy depends to a great degree on outside investment, so anything that makes Westerners, japanese, etc. feel unsafe will hurt.

[harriscrl3]

I was reading that this attack took at least 6 months to plan. 911 took years to plan. I realize something particularly in light of those who are saying that Bush kept us safe for 8 years and how we cant criticize him for that and I thought to myself how do we know this for all we know there could be one being planned right now. I remember reading somewhere that America got a C+ as far as being safe from an attack. A freaking C+. January 20th can't get here soon enough for me who knows what MESS Obama is going to find.

Carol

[CheshireCat2]

Ever been in a subway tunnel?

That would be a breeze. In DC they check no one's bag.

[BlueStateMan]

It would bring the city to a standstill.

We CAN'T let the THUGS dictate how we live...

[AdamAnt12]

You are right, there could be one being planned right now....hopefully, Obama wil be as vigilent as Bush at keeping America safe.