Honor Killings On The Rise, Going Unpunished In Iraq

The Guardian:

Authorities in the southern Iraqi city of Basra have admitted they are powerless to prevent 'honour killings' in the city following a 70 per cent increase in religious murders during the past year.

There has been no improvement in conviction rates for these killings. So far this year, 81 women in the city have been murdered for allegedly bringing shame on their families. Only five people have been convicted.

Read the whole story: The Guardian

Comments

[jan4insight]

Stop calling them "honor" killings! These are MURDERS. There is nothing "honorable" about this loathsome and primitive reversion to violent misogyny.

[Chaucea]

This is a problem in many countries, including even Norway for instance, amongst their immigrant population performing honor killings. Very little is done about it, too.

[BlackWidowPilot]

Um, here in Texas we've had a so-called "honour killing." A father killed his two teenaged daughters for daring to date boys IIRC. He is now a fugitive wanted for a double homicide.

Texas practices the death penalty for capital murder. I do not expect the Texas justice system to show this man any leniency in sentencing, as they so far have shown him none in trying to run his murdering self to ground.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

PROTESTant

[Agent420]

We could have paid Sadamn to take a vacation and the world would be better off for it.

[Agent420]

And we have paid almost a $1,000,000,000,000 to save these people from what?

[noralou]

Honor killings are not unique to Iraq. Wherever religion and politics intertwine, women are most at risk. Our best buddies in the middle East (or at least the Bush family's), the Saudi Arabian government, does nothing to protect women from this sort of thing. A Mullah on the street can beat a woman for inadvertantly showing her wrist, or being caught talking to a male to whom she isn't related.
When the Taliban (with our help and weaponry) took over Afghanistan (where the Soviet Union was on the other side of the fight), woman who had been doctors, lawyers and other professionals were suddenly banned from working. They could not leave their homes without a male relative. They couldn't look out their windows without being fully covered by a burkah. There were reports of many suicides among these women. This was pre 9-11 of course and any enemy of the Soviets were friends of ours. After 9-11 we decided that the Taliban were evil and now we "care" about how women are treated in Afghanistan.
The US government doesn't really care unless it fits with their political agenda. We were best buddies with Saddam until he invaded Kuwait, then we trotted forth his terrible record of human rights abuses, like gassing a whole village of Kurds (done while we were allies and Bush Senior was president). At the time is was: any enemy of Iran was a friend of ours. Sound familiar?

[Ramirez]

"When the Taliban (with our help and weaponry) took over Afghanistan (where the Soviet Union was on the other side of the fight)..."

The Taliban did not exist during the Soviet invasion. They appeared as a cultural and political entity in the mid 1990's.

[noralou]

so sorry, same a-holes, different name: the Mujadeen. So yes, we did help arm the Taliban.

[slaxx]

makes me extremely thankful to be an american. we have our problems, but we too often forget what we do have. simple things that we take for granted, like freedom and justice.

[Marichu]

The lives of Iraqi women under Sad dam could not be considered ideal, but since the US led invasion of their country, their lot in life has deteriorated. Up to 2003, women formed 40% of Iraq's public work force, today, 90% are unemployed. Polygamy, which wasn't that prevalent prior to 2003, in now more common, as women become second and third wives in order to survive economically. Self-immolation has also become more widespread as women find their situation so desperate they see no other recourse.
The Iraqi constitution states that men and women are equal under the law, but it also decrees that Sharia law, (which considers one male witness worth two females) must be observed. Honor killings, a term used for justifying murder, violence and rape are all backed by laws, tribal customs and religious rules.

If one of the objectives for the invasion of Iraq was to introduce democracy, all that has been accomplished is the formation of a theocracy.

[Gasparilla]

Read down to women in post Gulf war Iraq. It says Saddam embraced "Islamic and tribal" traditions in order to consolidate power. And I am not defending the invasion, anything but. I was opposed because I knew we would end up in the middle of this religious nonsense that's dragged on for thirteen centuries.
http://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/wrd/iraq-women.htm

[bluekatz]

But with Saddam in place there could have been progress to move toward change but with the invasion its now chaos and who is really in charge? At least Saddam has some semblence of order, one we many not agree upon but it was better than what they have now. During the invasion women were being killed in record numbers and still today.

[Marichu]

Thank you for the link; it was an interesting and informative read.
One things for sure, like any conniving politician, Sad dam knew what to do to in order stay in power.
According to the article it appears as if many of the gains women made in Iraq were lost after the first Gulf War. The saddest irony of all is that U.N. sanctions imposed after the war had a disproportionately negative impact on women and girls. Too often, in too many countries, women are relegated to sub-human status.

[gorgol]

Oh, YES YES YES>.Now lets go into China...and make them stop "female baby killings"...oh yes...lets set the standard of behavior for the WHOLE WORLD>...except us of course.....let those secret prisons continue...lets keep "suspected" terrorists in prison...for YEARS without legal representation..
And by ALL MEANS>.LETS KEEP TORTURING PEOPLE....but lets go one step further...lets
knock on US CITIZENS doors in the middle of the night..and wisk them away, never to be seen again..no legal representation of course...because remember OUR CONSTITUTION is just a worthless piece of paper...
DO YOU KNOW HOW CLOSE WE CAME TO THAT?? GAAD....Lets worry about the HORRORS happening in this country....before we step up on our pedestal of righteousness...

[Gasparilla]

That's conjecture on your part of "how close we came to that". It didn't happen and I don't think we were anywhere close. Talk facts. You can't base an argument on what might have happened.

[Ramirez]

Honor kii.llings are wrong. Period.

If our country will not state that, what country will?

[BlackWidowPilot]

"because remember OUR CONSTITUTION is just a worthless piece of paper... "

No, the Constitution is NEVER "just a worthless peice of paper," no matter what tyrants may say about the matter.

It is an ideal - The Rule of Law - that too many Americans have given their lives to defend, to allow ANY tyrant or would-be tyrant to trample on.

When The Rule of Law is surrendered to tyrants, only the lawless rule.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

PROTESTant

[jnratliff]

What a shame that life has such small value.

[Ramirez]

Many on this thread are trying to rehabilitate the legacy of Saddam and to paint pre-invasion Iraq as a bountiful land of rights for all. Good luck with that.

From Human Rights Watch:
***********

"In 1998, the [Iraq] government reportedly dismissed all females working as secretaries in governmental agencies. In June 2000, it also reportedly enacted a law requiring all state ministries to put restrictions on women working outside the home. Women's freedom to travel abroad was also legally restricted and formerly co-educational high schools were required by law to provide single-sex education only, further reflecting the reversion to religious and tribal traditions.”

http://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/wrd/iraq-women.htm

[noralou]

US policies are not dictated by human rights. Saddam was an evil man, but until he invaded Kuwait, he was our ally. We sold him all sorts of weaponry and ignored things like his gassing of a whole village of Kurds. He was at war with Iran (who had taken our embassy hostage) so we were all for him.
The United Nations' 1948 adoption of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is still just a dream for most citizens of the world.
We refer to it when it proves useful politcally and ignore it when it is not. I have some small hope that with the new administration we will speak and act out against human rights abuses when committed by our allies as well as our enemies. I know that is a politically naive way of thinking, but still I have hope...

[donklinestiver]

The multiple posts you have on this issue and reading your profile were interesting. I nominate you as the last American to keep supporting this disastorous war where 100,000 men women and children have been killed. or Lancets 600,00 plus counting deaths due to destroyed infrastructure. For what now we have 1.8 billion who hate us. We went Medieval and restarted the Crusades. We invaded an insane asylum and killed the staff. Democracy what a joke. Theocracy we killed the Lutherans so the Methodists could take over.

[pons1595]

Ah, the fine smell of organized religion in the morning like a fine brewed coffee. From the murderous Reformation to the tortuous Inquisition to today's insane Islamic wingnuts, organized religion seems to bring out the best in both Western and Eastern man. Be proud of your church...who has it murdered or tortured today?

[Ramirez]

A church is no more or less barbarous than the culture which celebrates it.

[who38]

However, the culture often evolves as a result of the religion and its degree of organization.

[Raster]

Don't forget our own, Made-in-the-USA "religious" wingnuts, with "pastors" who want to execute LGBT people.

[who38]

and restrict women's choice.

[who38]

Hear, hear.

[donklinestiver]

Amen !!!!!!

[BlackWidowPilot]

6,000 muslim clerics in India issued a fatwah condemning jihadist violence.

Numerous churches and religious people perform myriad charitable functions, including disaster relief, sanctuary to those fleeing violence in their home countries, even risking and in some cases giving their lives in defense of the defenseless.

Careful how widely you swing that tar covered brush, citizen, lest you become what you claim to oppose.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

PROTESTant

[Lucille]

YYou would think that with all the thousands of lives lost and all the money spent on this war by the U.S. that at least we'd secure the rights of women in Iraq not to be hunted down and suffocated and hacked to death by loving male relatives with have a scued sense of "honor."

One of the prices of our withdrawal from Iraq should be an agreement from the Iraqi government to hold future alleged murders until trial and not let them go awaiting trial as is currently done. The alleged murders just leave the jurisdiction and the policemen aren't interested in finding them.

The women of Iraq deserve justice. Say what you will about Saddam Hussein but he did not tolerate these honor killings when he was the leader of Iraq.

[Gasparilla]

The problem is that you need a somewhat cooperative population. There's only so much we can do. It's why I opposed going into Iraq. Saddam did indeed keep a lid on these things, but is this really a one or the other choice? Basically, the majority of civilian deaths in that country after the invasion came from them "cleansing" their neighborhoods of other religious sects.

[Lucille]

Before we leave Iraq we should do all we can for the women there. Many of them would not be suffering this fate if it weren't for the American Invasion of their country. We have an obligation to try to restore the rights of women there by any means necessary, before leaving; but leave we must; and hopefully within the 16 months that Obama promised.

[Ramirez]

Saddam may have made the trains run on time but he did not prevent honor kil.lings. That is a myth pushed by the anti-war left. From an article by A. Yasmine Rassam:
*******

"Much of the anti-war propagandists' defense of Saddam as a champion of women's rights rests on his willingness to allow women to vote (for him), drive cars, own property, get an education and work. What they choose to ignore, however, is the systematic ra.pes, tor.ture, behe.adings, honor kill.ings, forced fertility programs, and declining literacy rates that also characterized Saddam's regime."

Read more at:
http://volokh.com/posts/1147107002.shtml

[who38]

At least Saddam supported a secular agenda.

[slaxx]

i'm convinced that in additiont to "honor," it's also about money. a "tainted" woman is worthless as she won't provide a dowry and since she can't be married off, she becomes a burden on the family since women have no economic independence.

[commonsense2]

Oh...my...gosh. Honor killings in the Middle East. Who would have thought?

I am so surprised.

Gosh...maybe we should not mention it and just ignore the issue all together...otherwise aren't we just racist...

Now we can cut to a new comment talking about everything America has done wrong and how we even worse.

And so the same old crap goes on...and on...and on.. and on...

[NoMercy]

Unfortunately, "honor killings", like female circumcision, are deeply entrenched *social* practices in various Muslim countries. Only a very powerful central government could wipe them out, and in most Muslim countries the government is not powerful or stable enough to make those sweeping changes - in education and law enforcement.

[Petunia39]

female circumcision is also practiced by Christians, Jews and animists in some regions, predominantly in African nations. In India they have dowry deaths and in Latin America "crimes of passion" are treated with excessive leniency.

[Ramirez]

There are a number of Muslim countries with strong governments. Iran, Syria and indonesia come to mind. However in Muslim countries there is no separation of government from Islam, and the law of Allah will always overrule laws made by man.

[MajorKong]

Not all "Muslim" countries operate under Sharia law.

Turkey has a secular constitution. Syria is a Baathist dictatorship. Indonesia is a republic.

Some of the Gulf States are much less strict than say, Saudi Arabia.

Iran is very strict. Afghanistan was so over the top even the Iranians thought they were crazy.

There are big differences in that part of the world. They're not just "all those scary brown people over there".

[Petunia39]

But man interprets those laws, and interpretations can vary, so even shariah law need not be static.

[Gasparilla]

I agree there. In many cases, Islamic law is the law of the land. Saudi Arabia for instance. Which is why I don't want religious law here.

[Pero]

Note that Iraq under Saddam was receiving highest awards given by UN for very high level of literacy and education. For example, Iraq had a higher percentage of women medical doctors than the US.
Of course, our imperialist criminal gang doesn't want you to know that...

[NoMercy]

It became very hard to find honest information on Iraq after 1991.

Saddam could have turned into an ally like Khadafi, with a little incentive. Much cheaper than the current war, that's for sure. And it would have remained progressive.

[Tulka2]

I profoundly agree with your second paragraph, but must say that Iraqi women under Saddam were better off in every way than now they are... unless they left, of course. Many who could, did.

[Gasparilla]

Saddam was "progressive"? On what planet? All those people he gassed?