Plea Deal Offered To 8-Year-Old Charged With Murdering His Father

PHOENIX — Prosecutors have offered a plea deal to an 8-year-old boy charged with murder in the shooting deaths of his father and another man in their eastern Arizona home, court records show.

Complete details of the offer weren't spelled out in a court filing posted Saturday on the Apache County Superior Court's Web site.

But County Attorney Criss Candelaria wrote that he has "tendered a plea offer to the juvenile's attorneys that would resolve all the charges in the juvenile court contingent on the results of the mental health evaluations."

Candelaria was responding to a defense motion seeking to block him from dropping one of two first-degree murder charges the boy faces in the deaths of his father, Vincent Romero, 29, and Timothy Romans, 39, earlier this month.

Defense attorney Benjamin Brewer argued in a filing Tuesday that prosecutors wanted the charge dismissed so they could refile it when the boy was older and pursue case in adult court.

Brewer said Saturday that the deal would resolve the case without it being transferred to adult court, but he declined to provide additional details. Although he is considering the offer, Brewer said he is unsure of his client's ability to understand the proceedings. At least two mental health evaluations are yet to be completed.

The prosecutor explained in his response to Brewer's opposition filing that he wasn't trying to obtain an unfair advantage, but he pressed for the dismissal because the judicial system isn't equipped to deal with an 8-year-old charged with murder.

"It is done to ensure that the juvenile and the two murder victims in this case do not fall through the cracks in the system that might occur if both charges remain in the pending delinquency petition," Candelaria wrote.

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Candelaria explained that the boy could be found incompetent to stand trial, and if that happened, the court's options would be limited.

The court would be required to order efforts to restore the boy to competency, but if that couldn't be done within about eight months, the judge would be required by law to dismiss the criminal case and bar it from being refiled.

The court would then be required to initiate civil commitment proceedings, Candelaria wrote. If the boy is found incompetent because of his age, he wouldn't fit the definition of a mentally disordered person and no treatment would be available.

"Such a result denies the victims and public of any sense of justice for these heinous murders," Candelaria wrote. "It also denies the juvenile the rehabilitative services that he apparently needs to both deal with why he was capable of committing these murders and to assist him with the grief and remorse that he is probably feeling."

Police in St. Johns found Romero and Romans shot to death after the boy ran to a neighbor's house on Nov. 5. The boy was questioned after Romans' wife raised suspicions about him the next day, and in a videotape released by prosecutors, he admits pulling the trigger. Both men were shot several times with a .22-caliber rifle.

Romans worked with Romero and rented a room in his home.

Police reports say the boy told a state Child Protective Services worker that his 1,000th spanking would be his last.

The boy is being held in a county juvenile facility, although he was allowed to spend Thanksgiving with his mother.

Brewer said the boy is back in custody. The next court hearing is set for Dec. 8.

Comments

[Highwind]

I think the whole concept of what a child's cognitive maturity is lost in our country here. An 8 year old should not be tried as an adult or put in jail for any crime they commit. They are not mature cognitively or emotionally. They literally have children register as sex offenders when they act out sexually with someone around their age. We need to establish a psychiatric system for children under 18 who commit crimes, not demonizing the child for life. It is inexcusable.

[LadyMing]

I agree, and well said.

[Aabby]

did i read right? 8? no plea....he's only a baby! leave him alone...an­imals...If he did it, he must have been abused or something.

[Lionsden]

It is demented to try this child for murder and extra demented to wait until he is older to try him.

Spanking did not lead to this either, that is nonsense.

What led to this was poor parenting and access to weapons.

[Pippilin]

In this particular case, "spanking" could well have been the senior Romero's euphemism for child abuse.

[wrenny]

That's quite often the case.

[Mahi Joe]

So your solution is to let him off? This child should know right from wrong at that age and some sort of punishment is warrented. If not, then it sets an ugly precident for other children who committ the same crime.

[Highwind]

The 'ugly precident' is bringing children under 18 up on charges to begin with. It should never happen. They are cognitively immature. If they cannot be in a relationship with someone over 18 while they are under 18, why does them killing somebody all of a suddenly make them mature? It doesn't make sense.

[stanschurman]

Gee Mahi-Joe, I didn't realize he had been found guilty of anything yet. Or, are you one of those who feels that any confession, no matter how obtained (even from an unrepresented 8 year old), is good enough for you?

[Fbart]

i dont think children understand precedent in a logical enough manner to cognitively apply it before they take an action. I especially don't think that the criminal justice system is designed to have an eight year old interrogated about an event without either a guardian or attorney present no matter what crime he committed. The solution is definitely not to let him go, he needs some sort of help, but behind bars deprives him of an opportunity in life and is counter intuitive to the systems desire to rehabilitate. However, we have no real way of knowing yet what his mental faculties are or whether rehabilitation would help him.

[bakunin]

In the early 19th century England stopped hanging children. The Archbishop of Canterbury then opined that this would result in moral decay. Welcome to the 19th century, Joe.

[Leota2]

So what PUNISHMENT is appropriate for an obviously abused eight year old? And what precedent? This is an extremely young, troubled child. Should he be lumped in with other troubled abused children just so they can all be punished the same?
Juvenile justice is supposed to be different from the adult system simply because you are dealing with immature brains,psyches and small humans who are in the hands of adults. I believe this child needs to be in a therapeutic setting. I don't consider that punishment and it shouldn't be.

[stanschurman]

Anybody who watched the "interrogation" by two cops of this 8 year old has to be appalled. 4 hours with two professionals bullying an 8 year old who had no representation and they have the gall to brag about having extracted a confession?? What a justice system.

[BreakfastatTiffanys1]

if his mother is fit, the child should be sent home with her and given counseling.

No time behind bars.

[Highwind]

Yup, that's it. Period.

[Slapmewhenitsover]

I am sorry, but you cannot allow parents to just ruin a child's life like this and send him home with counseling.

There is no normalcy for this child again.

His life will be a series of nightmares and post traumatic stress that will be compounded in unprecedented and unfathomable fashion as he matures (or fails to mature).

A very grave error has been made here, so this child needs a new environment where he is not exposed to guns or people who believe they are necessary.

[Lorifromky]

Sounds like a page from Dobson's Focus on Family; he encourages corporal punishment. Dobson's guideline is use corporal punishment, as long as you don't enjoy giving it. My question to Dobson is does it matter to a kid who is being "disciplined" if the giver enjoys it or not? I have seen parents hitting their children in stores and parking lots and they look totally enraged to me, so does that qualify as "not enjoying it"?
I agree with other posters who say there is so much more going on here than we know - why does the mother live so far away for starters.

[crazychef]

Obviously you've never read any of Dr. Dobson's parenting books. While I don't agree with some of his "teachings" there is some very sound advice.

1000 spankings before the age of 8 is not discipline. It's abuse. It's so easy to blame the religious right for bad parenting. It's so easy for bad parents to blame religion for abusing their kids. Common sense has disappeared from raising children. People are afraid to say "no" to or disappoint kids. Children today have no idea what to do with all the power the so called "experts" have handed them. Parents now are so bound and determined not to raise their kids like they were raised that they refuse to see the positive aspects of their childhood. Instead they choose to dwell on the mistakes their parents made. Guess what? Parenting isn't an exact science and not all kids behave the same way. You will never convince me that an open handed swat on a well padded behind along with an explanation for the chastisement and an "I will always love you" at the end of the punishment constitutes abuse.

A child under 3 and older than 6 shouldn't be spanked. As soon as a child is able to understand consequences then other forms of discipline that works.

By the way, when a parent screams obscenities at a child or tells them how worthless and stupid they are does that qualify as better parenting ?

Even if they don't enjoy it?

[redneckliberalpostbush]

Dobson is a freak advocating stuff from the 17th century, before we had any kind of understanding of the human psyche, the effects of trauma on people, and kids. He is probably responsible for a hellofa lot of child abuse. I saw one of his "holy fans" in CO make a kid eat food out of the trashcan that the poor kid didn't like and threw away. She did this in front of all of us after church where she was holy rolling in the aisle and crying for Jesus and omg I never went back to that church lmao!
Think what that kind of humiliation and abuse does to kids and it's no wonder they use the guns the idiots leave lying around while watching Schwarzenegger movies with their kids.

[crazychef]

I guess atheists have never abused kids.

I have several of Dobson's books. Care to share his 17th century parenting tips because I've never found any. It's like any parenting book. No one person has all the answers.

Anyone who uses religion to beat a child is looking for justification. People have become so afraid of Faith based views that it's become a popular scapegoat for their own failings.

If I had been in your former church and listened to that twit expound on making her child eat out of the garbage can "Praise Jesus" I would have walked out and never looked back.

[redneckliberalpostbush]

There is nothing so sick as watching your religious right neighbors that won't use Colgate cause it's satanic, won't let their kids trick or treat on Halloween cause it's satanic, get out in the yard and scream and beat and cuss at their kids to get them to Wednesday night church!

[redheaded1]

Call Child Services on them.

[redneckliberalpostbush]

Dobson's guidelines for punishment sounds like "prison bitch" stuff. In prison, if you are the "doer" you are gay, if you are the "doee" you are not., cause you didn't "really enjoy it" He gets his discipline from supermax and all those prisons near him in CO!

[1003]

vegas observer you are right! I wondered as well about these two men relationship. The boy had said that he shot them because they were suffering. Why were they suffering or what did he saw to come to that conclusion?

[wadenelson1]

he claimed someone else initially shot them and he merely "finished them off" to end their suffering.

as one might do an animal you were hunting but merely wounded.

[redneckliberalpostbush]

he probably is so far in denial about what he did he disassociated- "left his body" and was not "him" that is a very common defense mechanism with kids- just too painful to think that he did that

[whispurr]

he shot his dad a second time because he saw that he was suffering from the first gunshot. i listened to his recorded "statement."

[Christyyyyy]

Dear 1003, I hope you are not inferring that a possible romantic relationship between these two men makes it more likely that there was sexual abuse going on. This false innuendo is damaging to the gay and lesbian community, and as a survivor of sexual abuse, and a gay woman who will soon be a parent, I urge you to not perpetuate ridiculous myths.

[faith]

I cannot believe this case has gotten this far. The principles of being read one's rights which include you are entitled to representation before speaking to the police originally came from the case, Miranda v Arizona, correct? This should have been thrown out immediately by the judge. Other charges with appropriate representation would have been proper. We are talking about an eight year old, what, second grader?

[hopefulinflorida]

I think the child was being molested by those two

[SwingingFromCenter]

The only "plea deal" that should be out there is the one that sends him home with the state of Arizona pretending they tried to set a new low for "justice"

[vegasobserver]

I wonder what this boy saw happen between those two men, that he might be too ashamed to speak about to anyone at this time. Just some speculation here...

In any event, it doesn't excuse his murdering of the two men (if that's what really happened), but the fact that these two men were living together like that, that one was "renting a room" from his "coworker", and they shared almost identical last names, is interesting... What was their true relationship?

[Christyyyyy]

Dear Vegasobserver, I hope you are not inferring that a possible romantic relationship between these two men makes it more likely that there was sexual abuse going on. This false innuendo is damaging to the gay and lesbian community, and as a survivor of sexual abuse, and a gay woman who will soon be a parent, I urge you to not perpetuate ridiculous myths.

[Jackalheadedgod]

Can a seven year old count to 1,000? When I misbehaved I had to cut a "switch" from our willow tree, strip it and hand to my mom or dad for a thorough tanning. I don't remember wanting to murder them, literally.

This child will require psychiatric treatment for a very long time, maybe forever.

This is extremely tragic. Had the principals all lived and been found out I am sure they all would need professional help. I wonder if it was wise to allow him home for the holiday? How complicit was the mother?

Jack

[BabsfromKansas]

What was going on with her that didn't allow her to be the primary caregiver??? Highly unusual.

[DKLabRat]

The 1,000th spanking quote seems hardly credible to me - what 7YO talks like that? The police interview/confusion was a sick joke and will be a travesty of justice if it's allowed to stand. Those cops should be ashamed of themselves and I know it's fairly standard practice in the US, but the media campaign conducted by the DA and prosecution against this child is nothing short of despicable.

[appleknocker]

If he didn't "require psychiatric treatment" before , he will by the time Arizona's "justice" system gets through with him. What kind of people are these?

[NotMcCain]

He's 8, isn't he? An 8 year old can count to 1000 (plus, he just marked hatch marks, like they teach in school).

If he started keeping track at, say, six or 7 years old, that's more than a spanking (beating) every day.

There must be a lot more to this story that the prosecutor doesn't want to come out in court.

That said, the Miranda rights violation should have him going completely free. I don't know what the police were thinking.

[Madmac]

I'm going to take a lot of heat for saying this but I don't think the kid should take the deal and this is why. The simple fact that when he was questioned, he was questioned without any type of custodial representation and videotaped. This in layman terms is against the law and therefore anything derived from this confession should be thrown out as a result of fruit of the poisonious tree.

[Excitedforfuture]

I'm not going to give you heat -- it was clearly obtained illegally and an 8 year old doesn't just shoot his father for no reason! He should be given therapy and help and placed in a home where he is wanted and loved! Why should he be punished and abused again because he did the only thing he thought would get him out of the situation?

[BabsfromKansas]

Does he even understand what a deal and its implications are????

[poster1122]

You assume the confession is all they have against him. Since the shooter is only 8, I'm guessing there's probably a ton of forensic evidence that could be used to identify him as the shooter.

I haven't seen the interrogation, so I can't say whether it's wise or not to suppress it. It could make the jury more sympathetic for all we know.

[Excitedforfuture]

How can we not invest more tax money into social services? Most social workers are way over burdened and the counties don't have the funding to look into each and every case the way they should be examined! As a foster parent, I am sickened at what these children have to go through -- what is allowable and how no one seems to listen to the child! Yes, there are children who will report their parents for abuse because they refused to buy them the TV or video game they want, but most times these cases can be weeded out.

When a child is going through his 1000th spanking, I guarantee he is acting out in school, or socially inept. There are signs that are ignored constantly, because the parent is smart enough not to leave a mark. It makes me sick!

[BabsfromKansas]

Thank you!

[BabsfromKansas]

At what age does a child internalize the difference between right and worn? the Jue.suits say "age of 7."

What if a child is developmentally delayed?

This is so very wrong on so many different levels.

This child will never live a "normal" life.

[Excitedforfuture]

How can a child who is beaten (1000th spanking) understand where to draw the line? Especially when his father teaches him how to use these guns?

[wrenny]

The Catholic Church, on the other hand, and other sources, have traditionally thought of "the age of reason" as around 8. And I don't think they're probably even referring to an abused child of a broken home