Franken Camp: We're Down 73 Votes, May Pursue Legal Action

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First Posted: 12- 1-08 03:04 PM   |   Updated: 01- 1-09 05:12 AM

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The Minnesota Senate recount is getting incredibly tight. According to officials from the Al Franken campaign, the margin separating the Democratic challenger and Sen. Norm Coleman is now down to 73 votes out of approximately 2.9 million cast.

Several weeks into the recount, 88.6% of the ballots have been counted, a slight majority of which came from Coleman supporters. As noted by Franken campaign lawyer Marc Elias, in the counties whose ballots have been counted, Al Franken won 49.6% of the vote on Election Day. In the counties who have not finished counting, Al Franken won 52.8% of the vote on Election Day.

The number is not based on the Secretary of State website or other sources (where the difference is listed at more than 250) but rather the findings of neutral election observers who are on the ground in state counties. In these counts, it should be noted, Coleman has challenged more ballots -- accounting for the larger deficit that Franken faces in the official count.

Even with the narrowing margin, there may not be enough room for Franken to take a lead. That's because, as the Franken camp has argued, the state has declined to publicize rejected absentee ballots. Elias, while claiming that the majority of these 12,000 ballots were rightly thrown out, estimated that "as many as 1,000," could end up being legitimate votes that were wrongfully uncounted.

On a conference call with reporters, Elias said the campaign would now "pursue all other avenues open to us," in regards to making these absentee ballots public, "including legal action." He even noted (as has been recently reported) that the United States Senate could take up the issue, a development that the Coleman campaign has called "troubling."

"If ultimately there is no remedy before the canvassing boards and before the courts, that ultimately remains an option," said Elias.

Also on the call, the Franken camp, as it has done for the past two weeks, raised concerns over missing ballots, a problematic development which has been reported in several counties. Elias called on counties to redouble their efforts to ensure that every vote that was cast would end up counted.

"[The final number] simply cannot be relevant if it does not include the total number of the votes cast," he said.

Without making progress in the missing ballot and absentee ballot field, the Franken campaign stands a much longer shot of passing Coleman. But the numbers -- if their math is to be believed -- should tighten even further. The campaign provided two other data points that show a blue-tilt to the remaining recount.

In Hennepin County. there are over 74,000 ballots yet to be counted. Among the ballots yet to be counted, Al Franken got 79.2% of the two-way vote on Election Day.

In Ramsey County, there are over 43,000 ballots yet to be counted. Among the ballots yet to be counted, Al Franken got 51.7% of the two-way vote on Election Day.

The Minnesota Senate recount is getting incredibly tight. According to officials from the Al Franken campaign, the margin separating the Democratic challenger and Sen. Norm Coleman is now down to 73 v...
The Minnesota Senate recount is getting incredibly tight. According to officials from the Al Franken campaign, the margin separating the Democratic challenger and Sen. Norm Coleman is now down to 73 v...
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- onenation I'm a Fan of onenation 4 fans permalink

Count ALL the votes that are valid BALLOTS. 1. Determine what VALID means by logical reasoning that is ment to include all ballots dthat do not require rejection for real problems. If the ballot can be matched to a voter who has not tried to vote "twice", count the absente ballot.
2. Find out why the number of votes cast doesn't match the number of ballots.
Then we will know who wan te election, and all should live with theesults.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:46 PM on 12/01/2008
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You can actually view and vote on the ballots challenged (I believe you need to set up an account) at
http://senaterecount.startribune.com/

I went through about 100 ballots and came out with an exact tie.
some of the challenges are silly.
Some are obvious in the voter intent and the reason why it was originally rejected.
Sometimes you have to use the option to see the reason for the challenge and the entire ballot.

From what I saw at http://ww2.startribune.com/news/metro/elections/returns/2008/recount/msenco.html

sees to me that the late counting areas all favor Coleman, and in my sampling of the challenges, it doesn't seem to me that he stands to gain that much.

My money is on Coleman.

Not liking it, but that's how it seems to me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:42 PM on 12/01/2008
- Telemachus I'm a Fan of Telemachus 112 fans permalink

"In Hennepin County. there are over 74,000 ballots yet to be counted. Among the ballots yet to be counted, Al Franken got 79.2% of the two-way vote on Election Day."

If this is true, Coleman has an uphill fight. Rounding: 80% of 74,000 is 59,000 for Franken. Coleman gets the other 15,000, yielding a difference of 44,000. There would need to be a lot of high-population areas, yet to be counted, leaning Coleman's way. Are there?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:03 PM on 12/01/2008
- demrepub I'm a Fan of demrepub 34 fans permalink
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Sorry you just don't get how this works. The vote difference being reported now, 250+, is based on the official vote as originally reported. Originally I think the difference was 215 votes. As the votes are recounted that 215 is adjusted up or down as errors are detected. Thus, the margin has widened a little since the recount began. It is not likely to change much as 90% of the vote has been recounted.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:00 PM on 12/01/2008
- Myshkin57 I'm a Fan of Myshkin57 16 fans permalink

I went through all of them and found a slight advantage for Franken. But, I don't think there's any reason to think those a representative sample since they likely all came from one or two counties.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:05 PM on 12/01/2008
- demrepub I'm a Fan of demrepub 34 fans permalink
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I went thru all of them and found a slight advantage for Coleman. They report the average of everyone who has expressed an opinion and the average is a slight advantage to Coleman. The issue here is these challenged ballots will not yield a 250 advantage to Franken so that he can win. The hope is on the rejected absentee ballots. My bet is that won't work either.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:52 PM on 12/01/2008
- Myshkin57 I'm a Fan of Myshkin57 16 fans permalink

If you're honest, there's no way Coleman has the advantage in those. I went through them very deliberately, looking at the entire ballot for each before deciding.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 AM on 12/02/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 260 fans permalink
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Franken has only one chance, and that chance is named Harry Reid.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:40 PM on 12/01/2008

Your statement is false. There are hundreds of thousands of ballots still left to be counted, and if the Franken aides are correct, Franken currently trails by 74 votes. In the two counties where the votes have yet to be counted, Franken won easily. There are also thousands of absentee ballots that haven't been counted to this point, and those ballots may be counted in court, well before anyone asks the Senate to intervene. In the end,. Franken will likely win and his margin of victory will probably be consistent with poll predictions a day or two before the election. These polls predicted that Franken would win by a narrow margin. Pay no attention to parts of the article indicating a possible loss for Franken; don't believe everything you read.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:27 PM on 12/01/2008
- demrepub I'm a Fan of demrepub 34 fans permalink
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They're not correct and neither are you. Ramirez is correct. The senate is Franken's only hope.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:07 PM on 12/01/2008
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Without a Boys Club to loot, nothing is going to bail out Franken this time.

His run at politics, looks as successful as his Radio Show.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:39 PM on 12/01/2008

Franken's radio show was good. You shouldn't talk about things you can't understand.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:51 PM on 12/01/2008
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He's written some great books, too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:59 PM on 12/01/2008
- rmetz74 I'm a Fan of rmetz74 10 fans permalink

S/he's kind of right. It was a great show, and it's pretty impressive that he's as close as he is to unseating a Republican incumbent in a formerly 'solid' red state.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:00 PM on 12/01/2008
- geobushono I'm a Fan of geobushono 15 fans permalink

Franken's show was unlistenable..from his inept humor to his phone calls to his republican friend, Franken was a bore. I don't listen to AAR to hear from republican­s.........­there were HUNDREDS of hours of rightwing media to listen to.....Franken chose to program juvenile dreck.
The exception to my practice, is Thom Hartmann, who has a broad range of guests, but as soon as they come on, I tune out...........We know all we need to know about the right in this Country.
The real talent at AAR WAS, Mike Malloy, Randi Rhodes, Thom Hartmann, and of course Rachel Maddow.
In that group, Franken was out of his league and the dark spot in the punch bowl.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:22 PM on 12/01/2008
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Oh yeah I forgot all about the "Oy, Oy, Oy" segment...

Pure comedic genius!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 AM on 12/02/2008
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Timmy's back from rehab! Good to see you here in the blogs again, Bub. Where you been? Stir?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:00 PM on 12/01/2008
- Myshkin57 I'm a Fan of Myshkin57 16 fans permalink

I'm confused. Are you concerned he's going to loot the Boys Club you've been hanging out at?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:18 PM on 12/01/2008
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The Republican party has become the party of not counting votes. A significant amount of their cash is also devoted to forcing people off the voter rolls.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:39 PM on 12/01/2008
- juangault I'm a Fan of juangault 3 fans permalink

Since an incumbent typically has an advantage in an election, a tie should go to the challenger. Like the "tie goes to the runner" rule in baseball. But neither will be taken as a credible leader without at least a slim majority. The vote should be done again, without a third party candidate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:37 PM on 12/01/2008

Sarah Palin polled better than Franken did in Minnesota. He doesnt have a chance.

Just like the passage of Proposition 8 but th election of Obama in California. Voters didnt vote liberal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:36 PM on 12/01/2008
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Er, the vast majority of Minnesotans voted to oust their consevative Republican Senator, Norm Coleman.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:40 PM on 12/01/2008
- hughbetcha I'm a Fan of hughbetcha 5 fans permalink

I guess that's why he's still ahead.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:58 PM on 12/01/2008

Actually, they did. America is a Center-Left nation. Pick up a book and read up on it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:51 PM on 12/01/2008
- pkafin I'm a Fan of pkafin 21 fans permalink

The logical contortions that conservatives must undergo to convince themselves that the Nov vote was not one that shpwed a preferrence towards "liberal" candidates, liberal policies, and a liberal style of governance is laughable.

Ha!! I laugh heartily at thee.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:56 PM on 12/01/2008

Oh jeesh - let me fix your nick "d0uch3bewithyou!"

better now?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:41 PM on 12/01/2008
- Earl I'm a Fan of Earl 90 fans permalink
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It's impossible to predict something that happened in the past. The polls are closed. The ballots are cast. The rules demand a recount. So count the votes. The winner has already been decided. To find the winner, the votes must be counted. End of story.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:35 PM on 12/01/2008

Why is it that the Republicans, the party who is always claiming that THEY are more patriotic and the REAL Americans, are always hell-bent to squash voter's rights in an attempt to steal elections?
Democrats only want fair elections and for everyone's rights to be upheld. We actually care about the Constitution, which makes us MORE patriotic and American, not less.
All Republicans want is the money that comes from power and keeping everyone else from attaining it. What traitorous scumbags they are.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:34 PM on 12/01/2008
- SammyGone I'm a Fan of SammyGone 5 fans permalink

Now, now ladycubsfan, we are all Americans-but taxpaying ones are more patriotic. That is from the rocket scientist gaffe machine, Joe, the VP. Apparently BO has him holed up in the broom closet.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:39 PM on 12/01/2008

What's with all the d0uche b4g's in this place tonight jeesh...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:42 PM on 12/01/2008

SammyGone,

Don't give me that patronizing crap. How do you think our troop's body armor and other vital equipment is paid for? With our taxes, that's how. Biden was right...that's patriotic. You don't think so? Palin apparently doesn't either. What does that say about the two of you anti-Americans? Not much.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:19 PM on 12/01/2008
- dannneeboy I'm a Fan of dannneeboy 3 fans permalink

Al is going to win by 8 votes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:33 PM on 12/01/2008
- Kubenzi I'm a Fan of Kubenzi 2 fans permalink
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About those absentee ballots....

It is kind of depressing to hear how many of the state's residents don't get to be americans this time around.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:31 PM on 12/01/2008

In a democracy rules fairly agreed upon get enforced. Sore losers try to change the game when it doesnt go their way. Thats UnAmerican.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:33 PM on 12/01/2008

Are you talking about the way W. got Daddy's Supreme Court "justices" to heave him into the presidency even though Gore won? It didn't turn out to well did it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:54 PM on 12/01/2008
- macweenie I'm a Fan of macweenie 11 fans permalink

So wait... When we are concerned about government spying on us by listening to our phone calls, reading our emails, eroding our Constitutional freedoms we are a REPUBLIC but when it suits your needs to bolster your arguement SUDDENLY we are a DEMOCRACY?!? You Repuglicans are one nasty peice of work. Do you ever stop to consider the corosive effects of your constant counterfactual spin has on society? Black is white, manditory vote recounts equals theft, the surge is working...

You are not just vile and ignorant, you are demoralizing as well. Try shutting the hell up and listening to people OUTSIDE of your insular cocoon for a change. If doing what is right and fair and lawful is unAmerican then why don't you move to Alaska and secede - I don't want you in my America.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:12 PM on 12/01/2008
- VeriteNow I'm a Fan of VeriteNow 3 fans permalink

Do not go gentle into that goodnight Mr. Franken!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:28 PM on 12/01/2008
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Fight on Franken!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:18 PM on 12/01/2008
- poco767c I'm a Fan of poco767c 344 fans permalink
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I am torn, I want Franken to win, but I can't help but feel that if it was reversed and Coleman was down and threatening legal action we would all be losing our minds and screaming about him trying to steal the election.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:17 PM on 12/01/2008
- Bitsko I'm a Fan of Bitsko 495 fans permalink
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I have to agree with you. If Al loses he has nothing to be ashamed of. He fought the good fight.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:22 PM on 12/01/2008
- Earl I'm a Fan of Earl 90 fans permalink
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Try standing up for democracy instead of a candidate. All you have to be in favor of is counting the votes. That's it. Just make a personal stand to demand that the votes be counted, no matter who wins. If it's Coleman, fine. If it's Franken, fine. Whatever. But count the votes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:29 PM on 12/01/2008
- Mikeatle I'm a Fan of Mikeatle 18 fans permalink
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Are you joking? Watch what happens if Franken does pull ahead. That cry baby Republican Coleman won't just threaten legal action. He'll be whipping up legal action left and right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:31 PM on 12/01/2008
- eggman I'm a Fan of eggman 20 fans permalink

I'm in favor of making sure the process is followed. Nothing Franken is asking for is unreasonable. And don't think for a minute that Coleman would be bowing out if the situation were reversed.

I sure hope this doesn't go to Congress though. I'd rather see Franken lose gracefully than see the Dems embarrass themselves over this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:42 PM on 12/01/2008
- Okieborn I'm a Fan of Okieborn 63 fans permalink

America needs Al Franken "NOT" Norm Coleman !!
You talk about something smelling FISHY this has Republican written all over it !!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:12 PM on 12/01/2008

I agree,,, the republicans cheat your butt off and then attack you by accusing you or their crimes....
Every time you hear a republican bitching about the democrats doing this or that , you know their laying the foundation to blame them for their corruption.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:40 PM on 12/01/2008
- sarimn00 I'm a Fan of sarimn00 4 fans permalink
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Apparently, my fellow Minnesotans didn't feel the same way. We can't just change the results. If Coleman wins, he wins. That's life.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:44 PM on 12/01/2008
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