Is Gay The New Black? Marriage Ban Spurs Debate

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JESSE WASHINGTON | November 30, 2008 12:17 PM EST | AP

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NEW YORK — Gay is the new black, say the protest signs and magazine covers, casting the gay marriage battle as the last frontier of equal rights for all.

Gay marriage is not a civil right, opponents counter, insisting that minority status comes from who you are rather than what you do.

The gay rights movement entered a new era when Barack Obama was elected the first black president the same day that voters in California and Florida passed referendums to prevent gays and lesbians from marrying, while Arizonans turned down civil unions and Arkansans said no to adoptions by same-sex couples.

Racism was defanged by Obama's triumph, leaving gays as perhaps the last group of Americans claiming that their basic rights are being systematically denied.

"Black people are equal now, and gay people aren't," said Emil Wilbekin, a black gay man and the editor of Giant magazine. "I always have this discussion with my friends: What's worse, being a black man or a black gay man?"

"Civil rights have come much further than gay rights," he said. "A lot of people in the gay community have been condemned for their lifestyle and promiscuity and drugs and sex, so it's odd that when they want to conform and model themselves after straight people and have the same rights for marriage and domestic partnership and adoption, they're being blocked."

In a cover story for the Advocate magazine titled "Gay is the New Black," Michael Joseph Gross wrote, "These past few years we've made so much progress that we'd begun to think everybody saw us as we see ourselves. Suddenly we were faced with the reality that a majority of voters don't like us, don't think we're normal, don't believe our lives and loves count as much or are worth as much as theirs."

Yet even some gay leaders are reluctant to directly tie their fight to the African-American legacy. They acknowledge significant differences in the experiences of gays and blacks, ranging from slavery to the relative affluence of white gay men to the choice made by some gays to conceal their sexual orientation, which is not an option for those with darker skin.

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"I believe we are very much in a modern-day civil rights struggle," said Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign, the nation's largest gay rights organization.

"We liken some of the experiences that we have had and will have to the (black) civil rights struggle. We also are enormously respectful of the differences," he said. "What we are best served doing is when we take lessons from the civil rights experience and apply them to our work."

Complicating the issue is the domination of minority politics by blacks and Latinos, who can be less than friendly to gay issues.

In the vote on Proposition 8 in California, which repealed gay marriage, about 70 percent of blacks favored the ban, according to an exit poll; Latinos' close vote may have favored it, though the poll's small sample left some uncertainty. In Florida, 71 percent of blacks and 64 percent of Latinos favored a similar ban.

Opposition to gay rights often has a religious basis, and blacks and Latinos are more churchgoing than society at large. Twenty-six percent of blacks attend religious services more than once per week, compared with 16 percent of Latinos and 14 percent of whites, according to a 2007 survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.

"I do not consider (gays) to be a minority in legal and adjudicated terms, the same way people who only like to eat broccoli with butter aren't a minority," said the Rev. Samuel Rodriguez, president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference. "We can't categorize things according to behavior. It's based on ethnicity, on who we are rather than what we do."

"Who am I to say that you weren't born that way ... (but) sexual activity, what you do, who you sleep with, is your business," Rodriguez said. "That's between you, your lover, and the good God Almighty in heaven. I don't want to know. Let's leave sexual activity in the bedroom. The government shouldn't be legislating what we do behind closed doors between two consenting adults. And to compare it to the African-American struggle, to me that's an abomination."

So is gay the new black, or did the election define a new and unique set of gay challenges?

"The gay fight for marriage has its own integrity, its own background," said Andrew Cherlin, a professor of sociology and public policy at Johns Hopkins University. "The experience of blacks in the United States is very different. ... I don't think it helps the fight for equality to make that claim."

Cherlin says that fight began in the 1980s when the AIDS epidemic unfolded. Gay partners had few rights to help their ailing loved ones, visit them in hospitals or inherit their property, which led to the push for civil unions.

Today, only Connecticut and Massachusetts permit gay marriage, and a few states allow civil unions or domestic partnerships that grant some rights of marriage. Galvanized by the stinging Nov. 4 defeat in liberal California, the marriage movement is now as much symbolic as practical.

"There was a shift in the '90s, from rights to the symbolism of being married," Cherlin said. "This is not primarily a battle about rights now. If it was, all you'd be hearing about is domestic partnerships. Now it's at two levels simultaneously. One is the level of rights; the second is the level of symbols."

One symbol that some see missing from the gay rights movement is a figurehead. There are famous people who are out and proud, such as Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., or Ellen DeGeneres. But "we don't have our Martin Luther King or Malcolm X or Barack Obama," Wilbekin said.

Yet the nature of activism has changed since the days when King proposed the idea of a mass march on Washington. The recent nationwide gay protests were instigated by a Seattle blogger who set up a Web page three days after the California vote.

And in some ways, gays see Obama himself as a symbol of gay progress _ even though he opposes gay marriage.

Obama is in favor of civil unions, and during his victory speech, when he included gays in his description of America, it made them feel part of the historic racial milestone.

Solmonese said that the election defeats of Nov. 4 have inspired a level of gay activism not seen since the early days of the AIDS epidemic.

"That is buoyed by equal parts anger and rage about Proposition 8," he said, "but also hope and inspiration about doing something that for a long time we didn't think possible _ like electing Barack Obama as our president."

NEW YORK — Gay is the new black, say the protest signs and magazine covers, casting the gay marriage battle as the last frontier of equal rights for all. Gay marriage is not a civil right, oppo...
NEW YORK — Gay is the new black, say the protest signs and magazine covers, casting the gay marriage battle as the last frontier of equal rights for all. Gay marriage is not a civil right, oppo...
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i just want to remind people that in CT in the election the question 1 on the ballot http://us-elections.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_ct_constitutional_convention was i think all about overturning gay marriage and it got voted no by 18%

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:00 PM on 12/03/2008
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Gay people face the very same discrimination as Black people and to say anything different is an outrage. Gay people have been lynched, beaten to death, dragged behind cars, denied jobs, housing, welfare, medical care - you name it and they have been discriminated against. Black people see little discrimination today compared to what the gay person must wade through constantly. It is absolutely disgusting to hear Black people say Gay discrimination is no comparison to Black discrimination. It is MORE then Black discrimination ever was and has gone on since the dawn of time, long before there was black and white.

You can't change your sexual preferences despite those who claim otherwise. You can conceal it, bury it, ignore it but no matter what any one person says, your sexual preference is yours and yours alone. You were born with it.

Marriage for Gay people is a right, just as marriage for Straight people is their right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 AM on 12/03/2008

"Black people see little discrimination today compared to what the gay person must wade through constantly. It is absolutely disgusting to hear Black people say Gay discrimination is no comparison to Black discrimination. It is MORE then Black discrimination ever was..."

Dear, OS2Guy,
please do not equate the middle passage, slavery, jim crow and hundreds of years of legal violence to Marriage. it is totally possible to make an intelligent human rights argument for why marriage is for ALL consenting adults without comparing the suffering of two very different struggles. and your ultimate conclusion that gay people are discriminated against "MORE" is totally off the wall. what equation of suffering did you put this in to? how can you determine who has suffered more? why would you even try?

p.s.
"black people see little discrimination today". first of all, how would you know?? just because we've elected a black president and lynchings aren't the norm doesn't mean we've washed away this country's looooooooong history of injustice against people of color. it's very real, even today. just look at our "justice" system.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:00 PM on 12/03/2008
- meleon I'm a Fan of meleon 7 fans permalink
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Thank you Scornitcher. I just don't think I could have said it clearer than you have. For me, it's an insult to ever suggest that what black's have endeared throughout their history in America is on par with what gay America feel they have. To further make sure I'm understood on this, I feel doubly insulted when a black gay person wants to lay that one on me. How dare you will always be my answer and will remain so.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 12/03/2008
- sueno I'm a Fan of sueno 13 fans permalink

I have a problem with the term "gay" is the "new black"-
There is no comparison, they are "two" distinct and different things.
The "new black" has a different meaning, particularly for African-Americans, and it is positive-
The "new black" is modeling Obama and the next era of responsibility and "cool".

The LGBT community need not "tag" their movement to past struggles of others-
in many ways there is no comparison. Unless you are "black", you shouldn't co-op
someone else's experience- and many non-black people, if given the chance
WOULD not "give" up their identity to become "black"-

The current fight over "marriage" is a "human rights" issue
and should be viewed through that lens, its broader and non-threatening
to other people and struggles and is easier to organize around-

The "new black" is for blacks and others re-building their communities
and helping future generations believe and hope to be more
than a dealer or basketball star-

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:56 AM on 12/03/2008
- GayGrandpa I'm a Fan of GayGrandpa 65 fans permalink

I am 56 going on 57, if I cannot marry now when, if not now when? Plain and simple it is unfair...I pay taxes, I do public service, if not now when? WTF, WHEN? Give me a break! Give me equal rights!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 12/02/2008

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. said, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere­." There are not levels of oppression - there is just oppression - and all of us must fight against it. If you think that the LGBT population have not been victims of oppression and violence because of who they are you need to read this:

http://quasisuspectclass.wordpress.com/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:21 AM on 12/02/2008
- BlackYowe I'm a Fan of BlackYowe 58 fans permalink
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When Gay activists say they have suffered the same as Blacks then the rest of the equation when explored makes it seem that people who are apposed to Gay marriage are the same as the KKK and that just plain is not the case. Race and sexual orientation are not the same at all. Homophobia is real but let's not blur reality here? Black people have suffered for generations and lived through pain and humiliation passed down for hundreds of years through families brought kicking and screaming out of Africa. There is no comparison. Blacks can't blend and every member of every African American has felt the bite of racial hatred. I find the comparison really lame and maddening quite frankly. Gay self pity flows here like a river.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:25 AM on 12/02/2008
- Highwind I'm a Fan of Highwind 7 fans permalink
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Why would a person choose to be black and gay? Wouldn't they want to be white and gay, because if they didn't tell someone they were gay, then they would be treated just like any other white person? I only recall blacks being slaves in this country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:33 PM on 12/02/2008
- faithnj I'm a Fan of faithnj 4 fans permalink
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thank.....­you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:34 PM on 12/03/2008
- MizLiz I'm a Fan of MizLiz 59 fans permalink
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I disagree. Homophobia in all its many forms has been around as long as mankind. It's in our genes to fear/hate "the other". Think of your own life: Can you, without fear of social ostracism, say cruel and evil things about black people (using all the words and phrases)? Not in polite society, you can't.

But you can get away with saying practically anything about gays.....t­hey're the last acceptable scapegoat, and anyone who says they aren't doesn't know their history. Gays have been stoned to death, burned alive, and otherwise abused for thousands of years. Just read the Old Testament for horror stories galore.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:53 PM on 12/02/2008
- sueno I'm a Fan of sueno 13 fans permalink

I've also been racially "slandered" by gay men and women-
I understand you story and pain, yet during the many times
"blacks" were walking the streets for justice (including the present)
"gays" did not support and watched the injustice from their living rooms-
"Blacks" have shouldered abuse in this country for 400 years for the most part alone-
The "Gay" movement didn't start until "Stonewall" and jump-started after "ACT-UP"
came on the scene, and that was "also" a white organization advocating for white men
in particular, not people of color-
The "new gay" should be about "humanity today", and not standing on the "backs"
of others to jettison your way to the goals you seek-

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:11 AM on 12/03/2008
- faithnj I'm a Fan of faithnj 4 fans permalink
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well I consider myself "polite society," and I'm a Christian , too boot. And I'm more than glad to tell you that you can't say whatever you want about gays around me-- so don't think everyone is just tolerating gay bashing, any more than they are tolerating racists jokes. all the same, it does not give you the right to compare homosexuality to race. if someone decides to kill all gays, you could conceivably deny it. if you needed a job so that you could feed your kids, and your employer had anti-gay feelings, you could keep your mouth shut and your business to yourself. I can't ever deny being black, and I can't keep my mouth shut about it. fight your fight, but stop equating being guy with being black.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:33 PM on 12/03/2008

"I do not consider (gays) to be a minority in legal and adjudicated terms, the same way people who only like to eat broccoli with butter aren't a minority," said the Rev. Samuel Rodriguez, president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference. "We can't categorize things according to behavior. It's based on ethnicity, on who we are rather than what we do."

And here is the issue: Peopole are not gay or straight because they just happen to like it. IF BEING GAY WERE A LIFESTYLE CHOICE, I WOULD HAVE CHOSEN GAY!
But it is not. It is who you are born to be. This is not a category by behavior, it is a category by birth. I am heterosexual and cannot choose to be homosexual.

As long as one person is denied the same rights as any other person, then it is a civil right. If two people who are heterosexual can get a legal marriage license from a state and be married in that state, then two people who are homosexual should be able to get a legal marriage license and get married. This is a no brainer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:57 PM on 12/01/2008

Here we go. *SIGH* Never mind the thought that oppression of any group should not be tolerated, let’s pit them against each other. And if you are black and gay, well where do you fit in? *SIGH*.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:37 PM on 12/01/2008

I am sure there will be a slippery slope argument for the “any group” comment, so let me clarify! Two consenting adults should not have to fight for equality! Minorities should not have to fight for equality. It should be a given, until then the fight continues and pitting one group against the other is counter productive to say the least!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:42 PM on 12/01/2008
- weatherwaxx I'm a Fan of weatherwaxx 255 fans permalink

"It's easier to be black than gay -- you don't have to tell your parents."

Yes, that's a joke. When minorities fight, only the neocons win.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:58 PM on 12/01/2008
- TjayeInLA I'm a Fan of TjayeInLA 2 fans permalink

Okay...fir­st of all...that joke was funny and I plan to use it.

And secondly, I've been saying that "gay" is the new Black for the longest. As a race, we've been the kids picked on in the national playground and seemingly, we have found some odd enjoyment in getting to play with the cool kids and bullies to pick on the new group at the bottom....­gays.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:52 PM on 12/01/2008
- faithnj I'm a Fan of faithnj 4 fans permalink
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give me a break....l­ast week it was Muslims were the new blacks. I'd give that title to them before I gave it to gays-- who at the point of a gun don't have to tell anyone about what kind of sex they are having. Some Muslims might have a bit of a problem getting around the subject because of what others assume about people of certain ethnicities or nationalit­ies...but even they can claim to be members of other races or religions. Most of us blacks can't claim anything different when accused of being black. so please....­leave the black folks out of this argument already.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:37 PM on 12/03/2008
- weatherwaxx I'm a Fan of weatherwaxx 255 fans permalink

Thomas Jefferson on separation of church and state:

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."­-TJ Dec. 6, 1813.

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."-TJ February 10, 1814

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." -TJ Mar 17, 1814

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus."-TJ­30 July, 1816

"... I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."-TJ Jan. 1, 1802

thanks to the person who first posted this, apologies for not noting your name.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 12/01/2008

THANK YOU!
I have been trying to tell people that TJ was not a Christian - did not base the Declaration on Christian thought!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:00 PM on 12/01/2008
- woodcut I'm a Fan of woodcut 16 fans permalink
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This isn't a contest to see who suffers more. We're very disappointed that minorities are now discriminating, based on their Bible... which by the way gave license to slave owners because the Bible tells how to "treat your slaves".
As for this being about sex, many gay people don't have sex. Nor do some straight couples.
It's odd, WE never bring up the sex thing (esp. re: schools) but the religious people do!
====
Passing? Honey, most of us couldn't pass for straight if we even tried. Nor would we want to.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 12/01/2008
- MrVee I'm a Fan of MrVee 28 fans permalink
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On the question the answer is no. Black is about skin and gay is about homosexuality. Why can't those who have these desires have that debate on the basis of what it is...the desire to sex those of the same sex? Has nothing to do with civil rights, not a thing to do with race. Our fight is all about race. That battle is about a need to mainstream a sexual act. Period.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 PM on 12/01/2008
- weatherwaxx I'm a Fan of weatherwaxx 255 fans permalink

Both conditions are those that a person is born to. This is scientifically established now. People do not "choose" to be gay any more than they choose to be black, or pink, or brown or yellow. Human beings are sexual -- do you suggest that all people born gay or lesbian must be celibate?

And how do you pigeonhole people who are both black AND gay?

The battle is for all human beings to be treated like human beings. Period.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:54 PM on 12/01/2008
- drjay79 I'm a Fan of drjay79 3 fans permalink

No, it is about two people loving each other.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 12/01/2008

If I were to agree with Rev. Rodriguez how long before we start denying rights to my Jewish neighbors? I mean, they choose to practice that religion, they're not born that way. They could certainly pass as Christian if they wanted., right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 PM on 12/01/2008
- MizLiz I'm a Fan of MizLiz 59 fans permalink
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Very good.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:55 PM on 12/02/2008
- DRaymond I'm a Fan of DRaymond 65 fans permalink
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So, now that we have had something that we thought may never happen, an african american president.­...when will America have its first openly gay president?

Never? Never is a very long time...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 PM on 12/01/2008
- weatherwaxx I'm a Fan of weatherwaxx 255 fans permalink

Well, there was James Buchanan..­.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:55 PM on 12/01/2008
- woodcut I'm a Fan of woodcut 16 fans permalink
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Harvey MILK said we should never "blend in".
He also said, "I want nothing even smacking, or smelling or hinting of religion."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 AM on 12/01/2008
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