49 States Flunk College Affordability Review

digg Share this on Facebook Huffpost - 49 States Flunk College Affordability Review stumble reddit del.ico.us RSS

JUSTIN POPE | December 3, 2008 06:36 AM EST | AP

Compare other versions »
I Like ItI Don’t Like It
HOLD FOR RELEASE UNTIL 12:01 A.M. EST; graphic shows college costs as a percent of median family income; 1 c x 3 3/4 in; 46.5 mm x 95.25 mm; 1 c x 4 7/8 in; 46.5 mm x 123.825 mm; 2 c x 3 3/4 in; 96.3 mm x 95.25 mm

An independent report on American higher education flunks all but one state when it comes to affordability _ an embarrassing verdict that is unlikely to improve as the economy contracts.

The biennial study by the National Center for Public Policy and Higher Education, which evaluates how well higher education is serving the public, handed out Fs for affordability to 49 states, up from 43 two years ago. Only California received a passing grade in the category, a C, thanks to its relatively inexpensive community colleges.

The report card uses a range of measurements to give states grades, from A to F, on the performance of their public and private colleges. The affordability grade is based on how much of the average family's income it costs to go to college.

Almost everywhere, that figure is up, according to the survey. Only two states _ New York and Tennessee _ have made even minimal improvements since 2000, but they're still considered to be failing. Everywhere else, families must fork over a greater percentage of their income to pay for college. In Illinois, the average cost attending a public four-year college has jumped from 19 percent of family's income in 1999-2000 to 35 percent in 2007-2008, and in Pennsylvania, from 29 percent to 41 percent.

Low-income families have been hardest hit. Nationally, enrollment at a local public college costs families in the top fifth of income just 9 percent of their earnings, while families from the bottom fifth pay 55 percent _ up from 39 percent in 1999-2000.

And that's after accounting for financial aid, which is increasingly being used to lure high-achieving students who boost a school's reputation, but who don't need help to go to college.

The problem seems likely to worsen as the economy does, said Patrick Callan, the center's president.

Historically during downturns, "states make disproportionate cuts in higher education and, in return for the colleges taking them gracefully, allow them to raise tuition," Callan said. "If we handle this recession like we've handled others, we will see that this gets worse."

Story continues below
advertisement

Scott Cristal of Columbia, Mo., said he wasn't surprised by the study's findings. Cristal, who has sent two daughters to college and has another two yet to pay for, said that he is trying to expand his business to help pay the tuition bills, but that it's been hard because of the slowing economy.

"We're going to play it by ear, be optimistic, hope for the best and just ride it out as best we can," Cristal said. "I think that's what everybody in America's doing right now."

States fared modestly better in other categories such as participation, where no state failed and about half the states earned As or Bs _ comparable to the report two years ago. One reason for the uptick is that more students are taking rigorous college-prep courses, the study found. In Texas, for instance, the percentage of high schoolers taking at least one upper-level science course has nearly tripled from 20 percent to 56 percent.

But better preparation for college hasn't translated into better enrollment or completion, with only two states _ Arizona and Iowa _ receiving an A for participation in higher education.

And the discrepancy in enrollment between states is still great: Forty-four percent of young Iowans are in college, while just 18 percent of their counterparts in Alaska _ one of three states to get an F in the category _ are enrolled.

Callan said the United States is at best standing still while other countries pass it in areas like college enrollment and completion. And as higher education fails to keep up with population growth, the specter lurks of new generations less educated than their Baby Boomer predecessors.

"The educational strength of the American population is in the group that's about to retire," Callan said. "In the rest of the world it's the group that's gone to college since 1990."

___

On the Net:

National Center for Public Policy and Higher Education: http://www.highereducation.org/

An independent report on American higher education flunks all but one state when it comes to affordability _ an embarrassing verdict that is unlikely to improve as the economy contracts. The biennial...
An independent report on American higher education flunks all but one state when it comes to affordability _ an embarrassing verdict that is unlikely to improve as the economy contracts. The biennial...
Filed by Dave Burdick  |  Report Corrections
 
Comments
73
Pending Comments
0
iPhone App Promo

Want to reply to a comment? Hint: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to

View Comments:
Page: 1 2 Next › Last » (2 pages total)

You'll notice in countries that do pay for higher education they don't have the heinous crimes and moral decay you see in the U.S.

I do not believe any tuition should be more than a mortgage. Ask any college why they charge what they do for student fees, parking, etc. It's because they can!

St. Louis University charges over $600 for student parking, doesn't guarantee you a parking spot and about a $1,000 for faculty parking. Is that asinine or what?

Students wouldn't have to have their parents' income considered for a student loan had wealthy people not destroyed that benefit.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:07 PM on 12/04/2008
photo

one: why is it the responsibility of the state government or the fed government to send people to school? Why can't people pay their own way? Will it be hard and expensive? Yes, but no one promised you a rose garden.

two: I take offense at the image that was associated with this article showing a mostly minority group. Is this a subliminal way of suggesting that minorities are taking all the college aid and with affirmative action is taking all the spots in schools today? If it is wrong to post a photo of a black woman when talking about food stamps (see the comments section: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/03/report-record-number-of-a_n_148263.html) why is there not similar outcry on this article?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 PM on 12/04/2008
- hilary916 I'm a Fan of hilary916 30 fans permalink
photo

I take offense in that you don't believe Americans should have a right to a free education, or adequate help in obtaining one. I bet you feel the same about health care, too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:47 AM on 12/05/2008

education is not a right?Dont you want your country to br able to compete in the future or do you think we should turn into a third world country with the haves an have nots?The fact is in this world it takes more than just a high school degree to compete if we dont we loose.thats what you want ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 12/05/2008
- Bjarni I'm a Fan of Bjarni 11 fans permalink

Easy credit in the form of student loans created a bubble in the education system. The demand was high to get into programs and Learning Institutions being run as a business wanted to maximize profit.
Couple that with the perception that today you're not worth more than what your diploma says forced even more people to spend money on higher education.
Now we are looking at situations where we have College educated people working blue collar work due to too much supply of workers with certain degrees. The ratio between productive jobs and analisys jobs has been scewed. Most people don't want to become a construction worker they want to be the designer. What good is it to have Accountants if they don't have accounts to work on due to lack of workers.
So now we have people with student loans working lousy jobs to pay for the debt they got themselves in, in the hopes that they'd get jobs in the field they were learning for, only to find out there is little demand and alot of competition for their speciality.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 PM on 12/04/2008

thanks to outsourcing and importation of workers who get paid less and have few rights also.My husband does consoltation work and sees more and more h1v visa workers replacing americans because they are cheaper and you can over work them and who will complain?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 12/05/2008

College and Universities have become a business, not a learning institution as it once was. Now, the cost of earning a degree far outgrows the salary from the earned degree. I bet the future of higher education is going to be through the internet. Why sit in lecture when you can view the lecture from the comfort of your own home, saving gas, parking problems, seating problems. I bet in a 50 years, people will be able to pick teachers on teaching ability instead of "publishicity". The highest earned teachers will be the ones that students want to be taught from, allowing the students to choose over the internet. All tests will eventually be standardized, which will eventually get rid of subjectivity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:30 PM on 12/03/2008
- Pharos I'm a Fan of Pharos 9 fans permalink

When you get rid of subjectivity you get rid of humanity. Just because students want to be taught by a certain teacher does not make that teacher a good teacher. Students have almost no ability to judge teaching ability until years after they have taken a course.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 PM on 12/03/2008
photo

So college students have poor judgement skills? I can differentiate a professor that is good from a professor that is easy. Not all college students are 18 year olds with no life experience.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:11 AM on 12/04/2008
- Giada I'm a Fan of Giada 18 fans permalink
photo


I agree with you on the Internet as a source of learning. Post grad I chose to take online classes in Oregon while spending the summer with family.

The teacher stated it was his first online instructing experience. We had a BB for interactive questions and solutions. All testing was online, with the exception of a final term paper mailed to the teacher.

With the development of a product like Kindle, books can be downloaded today. The idea of privacy, interaction and class on the go ... are today and tomorrow's world.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:52 PM on 12/03/2008

The Student Loan Program debacle--a previous bailout that never ended--is the source of this failure. And to resolve the debacle: absolute power to the Department of Education in place of bankruptcy protections for those who have been bankrupted by the program. We are in serious trouble because this bubble is bursting now too. Meanwhile, there are so many silent sufferers who will never be able to repay their loans to the government--the default rate is rising again despite the mafiosa tactics of the government collection agencies. And the government won't even allow for medical and mental health treatments in calculating repayment. The government doesn't even have to go to court and face penalties for dragging its feet in creating good repayment programs and failing to negotiate.
Maybe now people will stop pointing the finger of blame at the defaulters--people who went to school to get ahead of previous economic downturns only to find greater competition for fewer resources. Maybe now the federal government will try to do something about all the bad loans on its books besides making them due FOR LIFE. And when the income-contingent payers get hit with their income tax bill because of the loan forgiveness portion of the Ford Program (a time when they have fixed incomes), they might just get depressed and die early. But not before getting very sick in a costly manner. This program turned cold, cruel, and greedy. And for what?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 12/03/2008
- KarateKid I'm a Fan of KarateKid 297 fans permalink
photo

The West have a much different attitude toward higher education than the staid Northeast. I was shocked when I moved to the Northeast at how much "class" distinctions there are. I thought Stanford and USC were snob schools, but they pale in comparison to the "elite" institutions in the Northeast. I was fortunate to have graduated from a state university in California, UC Berkeley, and as an in state resident, the cost was a steal. It only took me six years to pay all the student loans back. It will take me 15 years to pay back a part of my daughter's college education, at NYU, and she will be paying her student loan back until she's in her forties. You have to wonder if it is worth it, though she did land a good job.

Higher education is much more accessible in the West, but in defense New York has a fine list of state universities. Sadly, it's about the only place where quality education is affordable. As for other areas, like the Ivy League schools, I think they make it ultra expensive for a reason, and we all know what that is, don't we?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:42 PM on 12/03/2008
- Egalitare I'm a Fan of Egalitare 6 fans permalink
photo

It's really wrong to focus on the elite institutions - private or public.

The real problem is that our "average" public institutions are out of financial reach for most families. And that's because we collectively "decided" that a better educated citizenry was not a collective responsibility but an individual responsibility. And once that shift was made (remember the space race and the push to push math and science education as a NATIONAL priority and responsibility?), the onus was placed on each individual student to not only pay for his or her education, but to chose a major that would meet the loan payback schedule.

Now that's FUBAR

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:11 PM on 12/03/2008
- VSamuels I'm a Fan of VSamuels 63 fans permalink

The whole collective v. individual was and still is championed by those who typically belong within libertaria­n/conserva­tive mindset; and too often the motivation behind this thinking was rooted deeply and clearly in policies that were racial in nature. And today many school districts are still climbing out of years of court-directed action to meet compliance rules, student-to-teacher ratios and test standards that the idea that college is unattainable is the least of some student's worries.

Those who have been in charge of many of these systems were racially short-sighted and have in essence created students who not just can't affort college, but who aren't likely to be able to complete high school. Yes, the college costs are an alarming issue, but more pressing is the cynical and racial history of many school districts which have failed to adequatedly provide classroom space, books, qualified teachers and etc., to keep the crop of incoming students competitive with those overseas, who continue to outpace Americans in similar disclipines.

The racial baggage of Jim Crow has been replaced on another level with false misology that claims in an equal society all have an equal shot at winning, except American society has never been equal nor fair in how it has ferretted out its funding. Only now when foreigners stand to overwhelm our college grads do some now see the error in pretending that our system works.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 12/03/2008
- KarateKid I'm a Fan of KarateKid 297 fans permalink
photo

It's IS about elite colleges, as long as employers give the plum jobs to those who are graduates of the elite colleges. That's was makes people stretch their finances to attend more prestigious colleges.

This is much more pronounced in the northeast than in the west. That was my point. I've been an executive in both areas, and elitism is much more pronounced in the Northeast.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:51 AM on 12/04/2008

Sometimes a private college is the closest school near your home so it should be included.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:09 PM on 12/04/2008
- txkayrose I'm a Fan of txkayrose 4 fans permalink

What disturbs me about all of this is that, even if I could afford to send my 17-yr old to a good 4yr university, he would quite likely end up with a degree taht prepared him for very little in the real world. It doesn't help matters any when most of the public high-schools have 2 channels - college prep or barely passing the standardized test. In Texas, at least, there is very little emphasis on life-skills, job-skills, or anything that might prepare a student for life after high-school that isn't college.
We are shooting ourselves in our collective foot by convincing kids that getting a 4-yr degree is a gaurantee for a high-paying job wherever you want to live. Kids who don't fit that mold feel like failures when, really, they just need other options for success.
College education is starting to resemble the housing bubble that just burst. And that is a crying shame.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 PM on 12/03/2008
- Samalabear I'm a Fan of Samalabear 63 fans permalink
photo

We have two bubbles left to burst -- the education bubble (I think you're right here) and the health care bubble, which was considered recession-proof, is starting to lose jobs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:44 PM on 12/03/2008
- VSamuels I'm a Fan of VSamuels 63 fans permalink

The American system beyond all else has been constructed on creating a false sense of 'working' when it was only working for certain segments within society. This delusion has cut across many segments of business and it found within its lies, those who choose to use the 'flag' and 'nationalism' to wrap around their defenses to thwart the legitimate petition of many who cited the systemic problems. This sort of head-in-the-sand mentality is best today seen by those who gravitate towards Palin, refusing to see or understand how all people in America are tied in the success and or failure in their fellow citizens. Instead, they project a reckless belief that their views are paramount to others and that how they believe things work, doesn't work with others because of their personal failure, rather than their lack of committment to those outside of their peer groups.

The crisises that surround many today clearly are and were compounded by racial isolation, cynicism and selfishness; as decades of policies designed only to ensure that certain groups are financially healthy were explained as sound and rational solutions. But, we know that if some people are left out of the cycle of revenue and seen only as an afterthough, eventually even the middle class begins to unravel and wither. America has been making excuses and excusing ammoral leadership which has seduced the public with voodoo financial instruments and the results are showing itself today.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:49 PM on 12/03/2008

I know this sounds crazy. But, if 4 year college education is too expensive, and we don't know if kids can survive. The best I've seen is go to a cheap 2 year community college close to home, where he can stay at home, and where credits can be transferred to a four year instiution. This is where you will save a ton of money. Of course, most kids dread the thought of living with parents during the college years. But at least, they won't be trapped into the freshman mentality of partying and mess up with a tuition at a 4 year college. You can promise kids a better car from the money you save. Numerous friends of mine took this route and saved a ton of money. My other friends who went to 4 year institutions are soo much in debt, it is kind of depressing for them, after college is over.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:38 PM on 12/03/2008
- pbfishtaco I'm a Fan of pbfishtaco 12 fans permalink
photo

So right, VJ. Another reason the community college alternative is appealing is that many kids out of high school aren't ready for the rigors of a 4-year college, intellectually or emotionally. I speak from experience. One can gain lower division credits, live at home (usuallly), and gain the confidence to make it at a 4 year school. This greatly increases the student's chances of success.
It's not for everyone; some high achievers are ready for college straight out of High School. It's just part of a broad spectrum approach that is flexible enough for most students. You are also so right that there is real inequality at the K-12 level. In reality many kids wouldn't do well in college, and need vocational or trade school education. European countries are aware of this (ack!! the horrors of social democracy) and have many tracks to education that we sadly lack.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:34 PM on 12/03/2008
- GeoLee I'm a Fan of GeoLee 62 fans permalink

Well, from I am seeing on televison, California will soon drop to F, too. And more students will be forced to community colleges as the 4 year ones are limiting numbers for the first time ever fo rnext year. I want to know why so few people in Alaska go on to college, given that every citizen gets at least 2 grand a year from the oil profits. Maybe the welfare state has a disincentive that the lower 49 don't, to work hard to try get more education and earn more. Up there having more children seems the way to increase salary. Heck, this year Palin's brood gave them about 16,000 dollars back from the government. oil profits.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:12 PM on 12/03/2008
- KarateKid I'm a Fan of KarateKid 297 fans permalink
photo

There's not much leadership by example, either. How many schools did Palin attend before she got her degree? And how educated is the first dud(e)?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:34 PM on 12/03/2008

They are limiting the number of students because the rate of incoming classes are unbelievable, and it will start taking years longer to accommodate all of the core classes. Part of the big problem is that colleges have accepted the PC view of offering so many different types of classes which promote some false sense of diversity, instead of offering more of the core classes to actually educate the student.

I graduated college in 2000 and I was barely ahead of the huge wave of students who could never get more than 1-2 of the necessary courses per semester and had to take electives just to keep at a full time or even part time status. The catalog was thicker each year and more courses were offered, but the core curriculum actually received a drop in available courses.

Additionally, the State College system does offer some really good college choices. I graduated from SDSU which has one of the best Business programs in the country. CSULB is also pretty solid. Because of this, more and more students want the 4 year opportunity without realizing community college first is actually a better choice for most of them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:11 PM on 12/03/2008
- alvdh1 I'm a Fan of alvdh1 23 fans permalink

Tis is the end result of Bush doing everything in his power to make government look like a failure. This is the grand scheme of the GOP. Does anyone remember the legions of Republicans who went to Louisiana and Texas on the first day of the GOP convention. The big parade was just a another GOP facade to drum up support for the anti government clan of Republican thugs. 30 miles of beaches in Galveston, TX are still littered with debris, rotting animal carcassas and possibly humans. Under the leadership of Bush and Michael Chertoff, $1 billion in aid has made it to Texas since the hurricane. The affected local municipalities are teetering on the brink of insolvency because the funds are not being delivered in a timely fashion where they are needed most. Governor Perry, a Republican, is threatening to clean of the entire mess and send the bill to Bush and Company.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:31 PM on 12/03/2008
- darthdarcy I'm a Fan of darthdarcy 48 fans permalink
photo

The Bilderberg Group, David Rockefeller and William F. Buckley led the way in making college more difficult to afford and limit access to it as much as possible, as they see no need for an educated middle class they are completely against that it does not serve their purpose or agenda..

Yes a key element in their not only Class Warfare, but Class Genocide....

They want to wipe out any middle class..it is Class Genocide..!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 PM on 12/03/2008

This is the forefront of class warfare. A guaranteed way to limit upward mobility if ever there was one.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 12/03/2008
- panurse I'm a Fan of panurse 18 fans permalink
photo

agreed

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:40 PM on 12/03/2008

It is really depressing to read any story about the high cost of college. I know that the "select" schools such as the Ivies are more apt to accept students whose parents can pay in full vs. those in need of financial aid. (One of my son's friends couldn't get into Penn until her parents forked over half a million dollars to the school). Before the economic meltdown a number of top-rated schools were trying to reduce the amount of financial loans that students had to take out but who knows what will happen now? I totally disagree, however, with the idea that students whose parents can afford to pay somehow don't study as hard as financial aid students. They want to go onto good grad schools. They are also afraid that there won't be jobs for them after all that work and money spent on education. The new administration has to make affordable college a priority.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 PM on 12/03/2008
- AZAcct I'm a Fan of AZAcct 2 fans permalink
photo

Arizona received an A for participation? huh...I wonder if they took retention into account--given the fact nearly 50% of ASU's freshman class doesn't return.

It bothers me that so many parents go into debt and struggle to pay their child's tuition. If parents are able to easily afford tuition and they feel like paying for it--then that is fine.

However, HS grads are able to get student loans! It always was amazing to me the difference in attitudes when I was in school. The kid whose parents paid for him (and he didn't have to work) always did worse, partied too hard and chose an easy majors that allowed him to be hungover and pass with Cs. On the other hand, when you're actually footing the bill--you want to make the most of the money you're spending! Skipping a class and not doing well is like burning your money.

When I have kids--even if I can easily afford their tuition, I honestly don't think I'll pay for their tuition. I will assist them in other ways and maybe at the end when they graduate with good grades etc I'll pay off part of their loans as a graduation gift--but this whole idea of parents HAVING to pay for their kids educations is bull.

Finally--yes, it does suck that tuition keeps going up, classes keep getting larger and books aren't recycled--I believe text book companies are as corrupt as insurance companies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 AM on 12/03/2008

AXAcct makes good points. I wish I HADN't helped pay for my kids' tuitions. But I don't really see how I could have avoided it. Unless your kids are REALLY independent from you- don't live in your house, have held down jobs and can prove they are totally self-suppo­rting--you will end up footing at least part of the bill. That is because colleges require a document called the FAFSA. Your kids will need this to even get a loan or scholarship. This looks at parents income and assets and tells you what your "share" is. So unless you lie through your teeth on the FAFSA (and a disheartening number of people I know, did) you WILL end up shelling out so much you won't have much left for retirement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 PM on 12/03/2008

I mean, come on, it makes perfect sense to front-load a young person who wants to learn to do good for their country with a huge bill that would be hard for a working person to pay back. Socialist education like they have in Europe and Asia is complete rubbish. If you want to learn the laws of nature or the rules for the composition of poems as a student you have to be made to pay for them. That is the only way. Repeat after me: that is the ONLY way!

;-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 AM on 12/03/2008
- VSamuels I'm a Fan of VSamuels 63 fans permalink

It is also rubbish to pretend that somehow the American system of governance actually has a level playing field while millions of folks systematically engage in tribal politics while insisting that others are cheating when they ask for Affirmative Action to offset decades and centuries of financial, political and social isolation. The reality for too many Americans is the pervasive lies that surround public policy and the defenders who failed to honestly admit the fundamental problems which required monetary outlays, and instead came up with highly charged rhetoric using racial overtones to demonize needed interventions.

American society has been pretending for a long time, and today with the deeds done in the dark now exposed for all to see---we see some crying about the possibilities of a Depression,---some Americans indeed generations of Americans knew only depression in a nation which kept them invisible and far outside the parameters of being productive citizens.

Welcome to the party, pal!---Bruce Willis, Die Hard

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:01 PM on 12/03/2008

Please. Most of the names of people who apply cannot be read to determine race. And I do not see a shortage of diversity on any campus I have ever attended or lecture on now and its not due to affirmative action. It's due to the person earning their spot.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:13 PM on 12/03/2008
- Dionita I'm a Fan of Dionita 4 fans permalink

I don't mean to be Debbie Downer, but it seems as though something George Bush mumbled a few years back about this being a society of "owners vs. operators" is manifesting itself more and more. I sure wish that I'd paid more attention to what he was mumbling about, but I muted the program as soon as I heard his voice. The "owners" appear to have a lock on access and are gatekeepers. Operators are too busy hustling just to get by. I may be a bit too cynical for my own good but it just seems that as long as entire groups of people in our society are deemed disposable, education will not be a priority for the owners of our society (socialism, you know).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:23 AM on 12/03/2008
- 000Jade000 I'm a Fan of 000Jade000 67 fans permalink

All that I vaguely remember was W saying something at a press conference about how our engineers needed MORE education to be competitive! He was answering a question about our best engineering jobs going overseas.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 PM on 12/03/2008
- 000Jade000 I'm a Fan of 000Jade000 67 fans permalink

Oh, Dionita, you will like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ4SSvVbhLw

It's George Carlin on ownership and education (as well as consumption, politics, etc.).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 PM on 12/03/2008
Page: 1 2 Next › Last » (2 pages total)
Comments are closed for this entry

 You must be logged in to comment. Log in  or connect with 

Connect