Franken Scores: More Ballots Found In Democratic Stronghold

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First Posted: 12- 5-08 12:40 PM   |   Updated: 01- 5-09 05:12 AM

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Days after it was reported that 133 ballots were missing in the Minneapolis portion of the Minnesota Senate recount, local officials in the city said they had discovered a misplaced stack of ballots. Democratic sources in the state, meanwhile, say that this group of votes were not counted on the day of the election, meaning they will have a larger effect on the outcome of the recount.

By mid-day Friday a spokesperson for the city, Matt Laible, said that the envelope contained about 10 absentee ballots -- a small number compared to the total number of votes casts in the state, but potentially very significant. An hour or so later, Marc Elias, Franken's lawyer, declared that with all precincts recounted the campaign's internal numbers had them ahead by a mere four votes.

"We are moving on to the next stage of the process," said Elias. "We are not declaring victory."

As such, the findings of the missing absentee ballots -- which Laible said would not be tallied immediately -- are being cheered by Al Franken's campaign not merely because they come from a deeply Democratic area of the city and promise to bolster the vote total of the Democratic challenger. But over the past few weeks, the Franken team has been arguing that the recount process must be more comprehensive and thorough. Indeed, on a conference call with reporters, Elias announced that the campaign was sending a letter to officials in the state's 87 counties, urging them to redouble their efforts to look into missing ballots, including improperly rejected absentee ballots.

Earlier in the week, election officials discovered more than 170 ballots in Ramsey County that, once counted, added 37 votes to Franken's total. The disappearance of 133 ballots from Minneapolis, however, has thrust both campaigns into full-on political hysteria. During a conference call on Thursday, aides to Franken argued that the disappearance of these votes would effectively throw the election to Sen. Norm Coleman.

The Coleman camp's response, meanwhile, was a bit more confused. The Senator's lawyer, Fritz Knaak, declared on Thursday that they did "not know that there are any ballots missing, and it is premature and simply irresponsible to suggest that they are."

At the same time, the local press was reporting that instead of accidentally counting 133 ballots twice on Election Day (the alternative explanation for why those votes had gone missing) local officials had determined a single envelope of ballots was in fact missing.

This was the second time Knaak had misstated a recount-related issue. Four days after the election, he declared that a Minneapolis elections director had ridden around the city with 32 ballots in her car -- raising questions of her integrity -- when she discovered them after the election. It turned out, however, that the ballots had been transported properly back to Minneapolis City Hall from a precinct, before briefly being misplaced.

UPDATE: Talking Points Memo quotes a local election official saying that, if the state can't find the 133 ballots that are missing in Minneapolis, they may simply include the Election Night total for the precinct in place of a recount total. This would be a big victory for Franken as well, as he would "avoid losing a net 46 votes if [the ballots] were disregarded."

Days after it was reported that 133 ballots were missing in the Minneapolis portion of the Minnesota Senate recount, local officials in the city said they had discovered a misplaced stack of ballots. ...
Days after it was reported that 133 ballots were missing in the Minneapolis portion of the Minnesota Senate recount, local officials in the city said they had discovered a misplaced stack of ballots. ...
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Al couldn't win a state that Obama carried by like 50 points, it doesn't look good. Karma is a Bytch..... see Rhandi

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:58 PM on 12/06/2008

HEY AL.......YOU LOST........ GIVE IT UP.......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:50 PM on 12/06/2008
- tomjones44 I'm a Fan of tomjones44 4 fans permalink

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:37 PM on 12/06/2008
- TheBrizz I'm a Fan of TheBrizz 6 fans permalink

Why is it that Republicans are always trying to get Democrats to concede before all the votes have been counted?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 PM on 12/07/2008

why not hold Minn. elections during Easter and the little kiddies can play too..sounds like a frigen Easter egg hunt.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:38 PM on 12/06/2008
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I can't be sure but I don't think Mr. Franken promotes ancient pagan fertility rituals.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:08 PM on 12/06/2008
- bwalsh1 I'm a Fan of bwalsh1 8 fans permalink

Those "fertility rites" were altered by Christians, and the Easter egg and the "March hare" is now a symbol of new life, like the new life found in Christ through his death and ressurection.

I don't like it when people use the Pagan roots of many Christian practices to belittle Christianity. If you ask me, taking the traditions people already enjoy and incorporating them into a new belief system is an ingenious way to win converts, which may be why Christianity has been the most successsful religion in terms of acquiring a global following. Sounds pretty intelligent to me!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 PM on 12/07/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 296 fans permalink
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From Powerline:
***

The Recount Is Over
December 5, 2008

With all votes now recounted, Norm Coleman has been re-elected to the Senate. I think. The Minnesota Secretary of State shows Coleman leading by 687 votes with 99.98% of precincts reporting--all but one. The Minneapolis Star Tribune shows Coleman with a 192 vote victory, with all ballots recounted.

The discrepancy is accounted for by the fact that the Secretary of State has not yet included totals from Minneapolis's Ward 3, Precinct 1, at the University of Minnesota, where 133 ballots are allegedly missing.

The only thing we know for sure is that the number of ballots that actually exist at that precinct, a DFL stronghold, is 133 fewer than the number that were recorded on the precinct's voting machine. Cynical observers suspect that 133 ballots were run through the machine twice, giving Al Franken some extra votes. Now, however, the official version is that those ballots are "missing," and the Secretary of State has given the precinct more time to "find" the ballots.

However that drama turns out, Coleman will win the recount...

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2008/12/022234.php

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:43 PM on 12/06/2008

Ramirez:

Did you bother to LOOK at the web sites you reference in your post? Such as ...

http://ww2.startribune.com/news/metro/elections/returns/2008/recount/msenco.html

IF you had, you would have seen that CURRENTLY the margin is 192 with 6,655 challenges to be resolved. Now IF the challenges are resolved 50:50 then the margin would be 97 votes. But the Franken people (who have their own estimate of how the challenges will go ...) say that of the 6,655 total they will have a net gain of 196 ... which means when ALL is said and done ... Franken wins by 4 votes ...

Do you understand this?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:41 PM on 12/06/2008
- Coattails I'm a Fan of Coattails 10 fans permalink

I live in MN, and we had a bipartisan group of students look at about 1000 of those challenged ballots, and they said they were able to agree on about 85% of them.

So, you take out 85% of 6500, that leaves you with less than 1000 really for any drama at the canvasing board.

Also, both campaigns are also going to meet this week and try to work together to see if they can agree on any ballots where it is pretty clear what the voter's intention was.

It isn't going to be 6500, it will be a lot less.

But I can guarantee a lawsuit by whoever loses!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:16 PM on 12/06/2008
- rmetz74 I'm a Fan of rmetz74 10 fans permalink

I may be all alone in this, but I think what's happening is great.

This recount was triggered by state law, and is proceeding just the way such recounts are supposed to. The fighting between campaigns is resulting in far more transparency than we had in the 2000 Presidential election (thank god.) The biggest complaint people seem to have (besides attacking the candidate they don't like) is that the recount process is annoying.

I think a little annoyance is a small price to pay for a functioning Democratic process.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:35 PM on 12/06/2008
- truthglow I'm a Fan of truthglow 18 fans permalink

It's not normal "functioning," when electronic voting machines, owned by private right-wing corporations with sole control of the source codes, get to choose our elected officials. It's a "Corporateocracy."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 AM on 12/07/2008
- rmetz74 I'm a Fan of rmetz74 10 fans permalink

I'm talking specifically about this recount.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 AM on 12/07/2008
- tedeger I'm a Fan of tedeger 2 fans permalink

And so Saxby Chambliss was "Re-elected."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 AM on 12/07/2008
- Clare53 I'm a Fan of Clare53 15 fans permalink

This has turned into the most boring senate race. Jeez, get it over with.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 12/06/2008

Yeah, let's just throw out democracy because some people would rather have the news cover dead celebrities than drawn out elections, why don't we?

End it because it's boring. God help us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:59 AM on 12/07/2008
- Coattails I'm a Fan of Coattails 10 fans permalink

Franken's predictions are wrong, and include what his campaign predicts he will get after the state canvassing board will give him after they review all challenged ballots.

I Minnesota's largest newspaper has Coleman ahead 192, including all votes except the 133 that are missing.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/

The Minnesota Secretary of State is including every precinct but the one in question (4129 of 4130), and it gives Coleman a lead of 710 (updated 8pm Friday).

http://electionresults.sos.state.mn.us/20081104/SenateRecount.asp

For those of you who do not live in Minnesota, you should know that this is not the first time the Franken campaign has made a call, or leaked numbers. However, every single leak or prediction they have made so far has been wrong according to the AP, other newspapers, the Coleman campaign, and most importantly, the MN Secretary of State. Just so you know, don't get your hopes up.

Franken didn't win on election day, and with 99.93 % of the votes in and counted in the recount (even if all 133 missing ballots went for him, he would still be behind). Franken's only chance is now in challenges and courts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:38 PM on 12/06/2008
- RTIII I'm a Fan of RTIII 109 fans permalink

A detailed look into each of these "sources" and how they are doing their counting shows that your post is -ahem- mistaken.
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:37 PM on 12/06/2008
- bannorhill I'm a Fan of bannorhill 34 fans permalink

It does not matter how other "sources" do their counting. The only count that matters is the Minnesota Secretary of State total. That is the standard by which the winner is judged.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 PM on 12/06/2008
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Coattails is correct - just the arithmetic may be a little off...

As of 8:00 PM Dec 5, 2008 (Report from Minnesota Secretary of State)
Franken : 1207657
Coleman: 1208344
(Difference :687)

These numbers match the press release:
http://www.sos.state.mn.us/home/index.asp?page=10&recordid=323&returnurl=index%2Easp%3Fpage%3D10

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:56 PM on 12/06/2008
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Actually, his totals include what the election officials decided on, rather than what his campaign decided on.
Still, either way, neither candidate can claim a real mandate from this election - time for a runoff.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 AM on 12/07/2008
- truthglow I'm a Fan of truthglow 18 fans permalink

Not only "election officials" decide, but also the right wind corporate owners of the electronic voting machine companies. That is just plain obscene!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 AM on 12/07/2008
- abouttime I'm a Fan of abouttime 24 fans permalink

Very confusing...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:57 PM on 12/06/2008
- RuckHumper I'm a Fan of RuckHumper 2 fans permalink

Al Gore has called the election for Franken, a sure sign Franken has lost.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 PM on 12/06/2008
- abouttime I'm a Fan of abouttime 24 fans permalink

Nonsense

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:00 PM on 12/06/2008

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:37 PM on 12/06/2008

If we assume that the 133 ballots are someway or another counted, Franken could net as many as 46 votes. If Franken also sweeps the 12 new absentee ballots, he will head into the challenge phase, of the recount, with at least a 629 vote deficit.

http://voteforamerica.net/editorials/Comments.aspx?ArticleId=173&ArticleName=MN-Sen%3a+Recount+Complete...Sort+Of

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 PM on 12/06/2008
- 700rpm I'm a Fan of 700rpm 6 fans permalink

I think they need to start all over with a new election. But the way these bonehead election officials have performed so far, there is no saying it would come out with any greater degree of certainty. Because of the apparent sheer incompetence, if this was Michigan, I'd suspect that GM was involved somehow.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 PM on 12/06/2008

I'm pulling for Al.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 PM on 12/06/2008
- Doofus I'm a Fan of Doofus 25 fans permalink
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If nothing else, the Franken-Coleman+Barkley race is a perfect
example of how third-party candidates can really screw up a two
party system, especially when your state requires 50% or better
to win, and doesn't require a run-off.

Otherwise, Minnesota has a pretty fine system, you betcha!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 PM on 12/06/2008
- Doofus I'm a Fan of Doofus 25 fans permalink
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Wait one... I misspoke. It's not Minnesota that requires 'over 50%'.
But they sure would have been better off with a run-off anyway.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 PM on 12/06/2008
- StatBabe I'm a Fan of StatBabe 7 fans permalink
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They would have been even better off if the Green weannie had not been in the race to muck things up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 PM on 12/06/2008
- erincnyc I'm a Fan of erincnyc 4 fans permalink
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We don't have a two party system in this country. We have an unlimited number of parties system. Unfortunately, the people of this country have fallen into a coma-like either/or mindset with the differences between candidates being who will get more money if one of them is elected. More than two parties running candidates for elected office gives voters more choices. That's democracy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 PM on 12/06/2008
- Doofus I'm a Fan of Doofus 25 fans permalink
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Sure we do. Like, in the House of Reps, we have the Repos, the GOP,
the Demos, the DFL, the Independent Demo, and a guy who won't exactly
admit that he's something else. So that's, like six parties right there! Indeed,
that's democracy!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 PM on 12/06/2008
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What is the statistical odds of 251 difference in votes out of more than 2.4 million ballots cast.?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 AM on 12/06/2008
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Well,
the chance of getting EXACTLY a difference of 251 is almost 0%,
but the chance that there would be a difference of approximately 0.01%
is probably close to 99%.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 AM on 12/06/2008
- MBryant I'm a Fan of MBryant 21 fans permalink
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What's amazing is that political wonks (like us) still don't get it. There have been a rash of ties lately... Both of Bush's Presidential runs - very close Georgia, Alaska, and Minnesota races all go into overtime. Many races very close.

In Minnesota we consider all the factors - Coleman has incumbency, good hair, Bush negatives, Franken - Obama wave, name recognition, history negatives. We add in the turnout, the campaign spending, the Mineesota electorate's goofy streak, the economy. The model is so complex.

When the result is a tie in our ego-centric, myopic way we look at all the other ties and say "America is deeply divided Red vs. Blue. Our country is split right down the middle.

No.

Here's how it goes: 20% will always vote Dem.. 20% will always vote GOP. Nothing like a mandate for either. The remaining 60% - aren't sure what to make of the circus we call politics and follow like children wanting to be carnies. They do the equivalent of flip a mental coin and it comes out 50/50.

That's where the tie comes from.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 AM on 12/06/2008
- 700rpm I'm a Fan of 700rpm 6 fans permalink

Best explanation I've read yet.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:11 PM on 12/06/2008
- brantl I'm a Fan of brantl 6 fans permalink

You don't get out much, do you?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:08 PM on 12/08/2008

Or it could mean that no one likes either candidate!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:34 PM on 12/06/2008

Bullwinkle . . . aren't you & Rocky from Minnesota? Or was that one of the other 87 Bullwinkles? And wasn't one Rocky from Philadelphia? Such confusion . . . Where's Jay Ward when you need him most . . . ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:56 PM on 12/06/2008
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