Congress, White House talking $15B auto bailout

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DAVID ESPO | December 5, 2008 11:48 PM EST | AP

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House Financial Services Committee Chairman Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., speaks during a hearing on the bailout of American automakers, Friday, Dec. 5, 2008, on Capitol Hill in Washington. (AP Photo/Susan Walsh)

WASHINGTON — Stunned by the loss of 500,000 jobs, congressional Democrats and the White House reached for agreement Friday on about $15 billion in bailout loans for the beleaguered auto industry. President George W. Bush warned that at least one of the Big Three carmakers might not survive the current economic crisis.

Several officials in both parties said a key breakthrough on the long-stalled bailout came when House Speaker Nancy Pelosi bowed to Bush's demand that the aid come from a fund set aside for the production of environmentally friendlier cars. The California Democrat spoke to White House chief of staff Josh Bolten during the day to signal her change in position, they added.

The developments unfolded as desperate auto executives pleaded for a second day with lawmakers for loans to help them survive, and the government reported the worst single month's job loss in 34 years.

Pelosi's office issued a statement saying legislation would come to a vote in the House next week. The Senate is also scheduled to be in session to consider steps to aid Detroit's Big Three.

"Congress will insist that any legislation include rigorous and ongoing oversight to guarantee that taxpayers are protected and that resources are directed to ensure the long-term viability and competitiveness of the American automobile industry," Pelosi's statement said.

In a subsequent statement, she added that the billions originally ticketed for development of more environmentally friendly cars would be repaid "within a matter of weeks." Democrats said her hope was to include the funds in an economic recovery bill that lawmakers are expected to prepare for President-elect Barack Obama's signature shortly after he takes office.

Officials in both parties also said the legislation would include creation of a trustee or group of industry overseers to make sure the bailout funds were used by General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC for their intended purpose. The funds are designed to last until March, giving the incoming Obama administration and the new Congress time to consider the issue anew.

One senior Democratic aide also said Pelosi was seeking a provision that would bar the automakers from using any of the funds to pursue a legal challenge to states seeking to implement tougher auto emission standards. The aide spoke on condition of anonymity because the legislation was not yet drafted.

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At the White House, Bush declared the economy was in a recession, and he urged a gridlocked Congress to act quickly on a multibillion-dollar industry bailout _ with taxpayer protections.

"We are going to have to have some give here," replied Massachusetts Rep. Barney Frank, a senior House Democrat, expressing optimism that compromise might be possible. It wasn't clear whether he was prodding Bush or Pelosi with his comments, but Republicans said there had been no lessening in Bush's refusal to tap the $700 billion financial industry bailout fund to help the automakers.

There were also fresh calls during the day for the Federal Reserve to come to the rescue of the Big Three, possibly in the form of low-cost loans. And Frank said he had talked with Tim Geithner, President-elect Barack Obama's choice for treasury secretary, a possible sign of involvement by the incoming administration.

"I am concerned about the viability of the automobile companies," a somber Bush said as a fresh report showed that employers slashed 533,000 jobs in November.

The president added, "I'm concerned about those who work for the automobile companies and their families. And likewise, I am concerned about taxpayer money being provided to those companies that may not survive." Bush did not elaborate, but executives at both GM and Chrysler have warned that their storied corporations could collapse by year's end.

In addition to the November layoffs, GM announced it will cut shifts at factories in Lordstown, Ohio, Orion Township, Mich., and Oshawa, Ontario, in February as a result of slumping auto sales. About 2,000 jobs were involved, bringing the year's total to 11,000.

The chief executives of GM, Ford and Chrysler, testified for a second day before Congress in support of their plea for a $34 billion bailout in the form of loans. "We believe this is the least costly alternative," Chrysler LLC chief executive Bob Nardelli said.

For the day, at least, their appeals were overtaken by the severity of the job loss figures, the worst in 34 years.

Frank said repeatedly that the unemployment statistics had quieted talk of allowing one or more of the automakers to go bankrupt.

"I think it's fair to say that the jobs report today, this disastrous jobs report, has heightened the interest in doing something." With trademark wit, he added, "If we are lucky we will come out with a bill here that nobody likes, because any bill that any individual liked couldn't pass."

Bush renewed his call for Congress to rewrite an existing $25 billion program intended to help the industry make more fuel-efficient vehicles. But the president did not explicitly foreclose other options, and Republican aides said the White House might be open to some sort of compromise.

Congressional budget analysts have said tapping the fuel-efficiency program for a broader auto bailout would net only $7.5 billion in short-term cash but amended that to say adjustments were possible that could double that amount. Pelosi and environmentalists had opposed making use of those funds. Instead, they wanted the administration to take money from a $700 billion financial industry bailout that cleared Congress last fall.

WASHINGTON — Stunned by the loss of 500,000 jobs, congressional Democrats and the White House reached for agreement Friday on about $15 billion in bailout loans for the beleaguered auto industry...
WASHINGTON — Stunned by the loss of 500,000 jobs, congressional Democrats and the White House reached for agreement Friday on about $15 billion in bailout loans for the beleaguered auto industry...
 
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These stupid US carmakers just want to dump unions. Have you noticed that their insane failure to adapt to the market just gets worse and worse- now they want welfare and disability for their sickness.
They just keep making huge cars that burn tons of gas and put out psychologically base commercials appealing to the basest of human drives- like sex, the need for love and belonging, etc. STUPID while other countries have been wiping them off the charts for decades. They need to study cockroaches or microbes and learn how to adapt to the market!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:01 AM on 12/07/2008
- Lemmy I'm a Fan of Lemmy 19 fans permalink

It's tough to compete under such government regulations and paying folks $77 and hour when your competition pays $44 an hour. Greedy unions and government is the culprit here. Management didn't do itself any favots but the are not the big problem.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:04 PM on 12/09/2008
- Lemmy I'm a Fan of Lemmy 19 fans permalink

Why isn't Berney Frank in jail?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:29 AM on 12/07/2008
- flossophy I'm a Fan of flossophy 321 fans permalink
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no kidding... and Chris Dodd too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:16 PM on 12/08/2008
- alleycat32 I'm a Fan of alleycat32 2 fans permalink

Let em file bankruptcy. They earned it with mismanagement and greed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 PM on 12/06/2008

Why did these top managers ever get bonuses, anyway?
Aren't bonuses given for doing a good job?
Their companies are losing money now, and here - let's pretend this is Socialism, and Government has the obligation to take care of everyone, right?
They should refund all the bonuses they took before they get a penny of our money!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 PM on 12/06/2008
- flossophy I'm a Fan of flossophy 321 fans permalink
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umm... government does not have the obligation to take care of everyone. Where'd you go to skool?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:46 PM on 12/08/2008

Bankruptcy is what Wall Street wants. It kills several birds with the same stone 1) gets rid of unions, 2) shifts responsibility for worker retirement plans to the American taxpayer, 3) ends any employer-paid health coverage and moves health care for employees and retirees to the taxpayer in the form of emergency room costs & Medicaid and the big winner is Wall Street. Those greedy crooks that caused this economic crisis by creating the housing speculation bubble (which led to their massive increase in personal wealth) and then profiting on "selling shorts" and the outrageous bonuses (totalling more than $80 billion last year) will make a killing on the short sales of automotive relatd stocks and their resultant bonuses. Meanwhile the taxpayer payes the unemployment costs for the now out of work laborer.

It is time to stop robbing the middle class just so the upper class can get richer. End welfare for the rich NOW. Support the restructuring and revitalization of the auto industry.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:53 PM on 12/07/2008
- Info08 I'm a Fan of Info08 3 fans permalink

The auto industry is a blue collar constituency. I know Bush and the Republicans don't care about them, but the Democrats can't let them fail.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:39 PM on 12/06/2008
- killpack I'm a Fan of killpack 4 fans permalink

Most Americans are AGAINST a bailout. Democrats (and ALL of Congress) better think long and hard before they go against the will of the people again, like they did with the financial bailout. Do they really not know why their approval ratings are so low?!?!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:55 PM on 12/06/2008

They haven't a clue

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:31 PM on 12/06/2008

personally I don't think we can let the auto makers fail. Far too many people are employed by the automakers. What it really amazing to me though is the fact that they put the automakers under a microscope (as well they should), but the bankers, the white collar workers don't even have to account for how they are spending their billions of bailout money. What is wrong with this picture?

I read an editorial, that stated instead of doing these bailouts, give each person who lives (legally of course) in the US, a million dollars. I did a little research because I liked that idea. There are 350 million of us. 350 million dollars spread around 350 million people could generate a heck of a stimulus for the economy and it's a heck of a lot less money than the 700 billion (PLUS PLUS) that the government wants to give to the banks so that the banks can save the money for a rainy day...or buy more banks. They could even tell us that if we spend our million (and you know we would) it has to be "BUY AMERICAN", we'd be out of this mess in no time. It's a WIN WIN situation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:05 PM on 12/06/2008
- killpack I'm a Fan of killpack 4 fans permalink

I respect your opinion that auto makers should be bailed out. However, the MAJORITY of Americans, including myself, don't think that is a good idea. You're right about one thing though. We NEVER should have bailed out the financial industry either! MOST Americans were against that as well, and Congress just went and did it ANYWAY! I'll tell you what though. The way the Fed keeps printing money for all of these bailouts, "buying American" will be our only option. Do you really think the Chinese are going to sell us anything for our WORTHLESS dollars?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:22 PM on 12/07/2008
- Big0725 I'm a Fan of Big0725 23 fans permalink
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Well so much for the rest of the warranty on my 300C.

Thanks Congress.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:24 PM on 12/06/2008
- Anciano I'm a Fan of Anciano 17 fans permalink
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America is like a wooden house where the termites have eaten away at the structure to the point where only the layers of paint are holding things together. BushLooters & Co. are propping it up until January when the truth is going to come out and the whole edifice of free market lies will collapse around Obama as he moves in.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:21 PM on 12/06/2008
- Carolab I'm a Fan of Carolab 356 fans permalink
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Well, Colin Powell hinted at some big event January 21-22 on Meet The Press.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:32 PM on 12/06/2008
- killpack I'm a Fan of killpack 4 fans permalink

Yeah, I can't wait for the government to decide how my money will be consumed and invested.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:57 PM on 12/06/2008
- flossophy I'm a Fan of flossophy 321 fans permalink
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Well.. if you don't like how your money is spent... then it's off to the reeducation camp in South Chicago, for you buddy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:56 PM on 12/08/2008

TO: Automakers of America December 6, 2008

Our forefathers wanted no one person to decide to levy taxes on the people and provided that Congress alone as representatives of the people decides to levy and collect taxes on the people. It is the people of America who control the Purse Strings for America through their representatives in Congress and if they do not like it they can vote these representatives out of office. America is a Republic and also called a Democracy which means that the people control the ballot box through their representatives in Congress. Vanza Devereaux The Government of a Free Nation,'63

Adam Smith, Father of the Economy, felt that Capitalism would also help the poor as good system for a free enterprise of a good economy. Our forefathers also checked out all other governments and felt that a Democracy is the best government of all for nation as America.

In ancient Greece the poor were asked to fight a War at sea and because of this they demanded participation in their government and got it. Thus came about Demos = People and Crates = Rule. THE PEOPLE RULE NOT JUST BANKS, AUTOMAKERS. IT 'S A GOVERNMENT OF ALL AMERICANS AND DIVIDE EQUALLY AMONG ALL THE PEOPLES THE TAX DOLLARS.

In Bible God's equal and fair principle would say that one should not take from one group and suffer them to help another group.

Eva Hart A Christian In Army from 62-70 670 Eddy St. Sfc 94109

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:12 PM on 12/06/2008
- killpack I'm a Fan of killpack 4 fans permalink

Which is why a MAJORITY of Americans are AGAINST a bailout of autos. Why? Because it isn't fair for one group to get one while the rest of us get nothing."But it isn't a bailout, it's a loan." BULL! A loan that WE are on the hook for that may never get paid back IS a bailout! "But if GM goes down then we all suffer." BULL! Most of us will not benefit by bailing out GM. Why? Because on average, the "ripple effect" of GM going down will take less out my pocket than the ACTUAL BAILOUT. Of course GM going out of business will affect me. A bailout will affect me MORE (and it will affect most Americans MORE). If this weren't the case we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Why? Because if "bailing out" GM was in most people's best interest, we wouldn't even need TAXPAYER money. It wouldn't even be a bail out. We would all be putting together investor groups and hedge funds as we speak to buy up such great ASSETS. The problem is that GM ISN'T great. It is a totally inefficient business that nobody wants. So you want to make TAXPAYERS invest in it?!?!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:45 PM on 12/06/2008
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 246 fans permalink

So then they should die while europe gives 100nbillion bailout to their auto industry and limits Asian imports to just 20% of their market unlikek us.

While in China the government owns half of all business and industry and you sell only whats built tthere and in Japan, they have always have gotten zero interest loans, their research and development paid for and a protected home environment... the same for Korea and now Brazil. Of course the giovernment pays for all of the healthcare also...

Maybe that explains why your simple logic and not knowing that the rest of the world does not do Free trade has lost us the steel, ship building, the appliance industry, the computer industry, the consummer electronics industry, the textile industry and soon the airplane MFG , software industry and etc.... the tech support industry, Claims processing industry and the list goes on...

Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:29 PM on 12/06/2008
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 246 fans permalink

A majority of Americans voted for geroge Bush in 2004 and were in favor of invading Iraq.


Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:39 PM on 12/06/2008
- DMcMillan I'm a Fan of DMcMillan 9 fans permalink
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It's a good idea to post your name and your address on the internet so when people want to meet you in person they can just come right over to your house.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:08 PM on 12/06/2008

There should have been ZERO dollars. Let them fail.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:29 PM on 12/06/2008

Well...apparently the New York Times has decided to start publishing news again.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/06/business/06chrysler.html

If Congress decides to "bail out" (or whatthehellever they're calling it this week) Chrysler, they'll really be giving OUR money, YOURS and MINE, to Chrysler's PRIVATE owner, the equity firm Cerebus.

Read all about it, and make sure you don't miss the one memorable quote from Cerebus COO Mark A. Neporent...it's BLOODY PRICELESS!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:02 PM on 12/06/2008
- GypsyRose I'm a Fan of GypsyRose 46 fans permalink

There must be some mistake. That's not the NY Times I know.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:12 PM on 12/06/2008

Shocking, ain't it? heh heh

There may be some life left in the Old Grey Lady yet...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:21 PM on 12/06/2008
- Carolab I'm a Fan of Carolab 356 fans permalink
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Nice. Read further down to what I posted about what GM is doing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:23 PM on 12/06/2008

Yep...I've been doing a little snooping around meownself:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/29/business/gm.php

I have a feeling that GM won't be spending much of this "bailout" on their stateside operations, but will take the money, expand their overseas operations instead, and eventually file Chapter 11 here so they can get out from under their retiree pension and healthcare obligations (OK...call me a cynic...heh heh).

(This is more fun than sharing recipes, IMO - LOL)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:59 PM on 12/06/2008
- Carolab I'm a Fan of Carolab 356 fans permalink
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Maxine Waters, LOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:27 PM on 12/06/2008
- Carolab I'm a Fan of Carolab 356 fans permalink
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Read THIS:

The Most Dangerous Deal in America

Inside the secretive world of Cerberus Capital­­­—and why its plan to save Chrysler spooks Wall Street.

http://www.portfolio.com/executives/features/2007/08/13/Stephen-Feinberg-Cerberus

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:35 PM on 12/06/2008

YIKES!!!

Ever seen a photo of the notoriously publicity-shy Mr. Feinberg? OOOOWEEE

Iff'n you ask me, that boy needs a double dose of tonic...he looks kinda wormy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:38 PM on 12/06/2008
- Carolab I'm a Fan of Carolab 356 fans permalink
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Did you notice: the article mentions Cerberus owns GMAC!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:50 PM on 12/06/2008
- DMcMillan I'm a Fan of DMcMillan 9 fans permalink
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“We’re not in this for the money,” Mr. Neporent - of course not. Because, as we all know, investing is next to godliness and only for charitable purposes and why lie about that. I think he just topped Bush.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:52 PM on 12/06/2008

Told you it was priceless (pardon the pun).

I almost fell out of my chair when I read that.

Neporent must have a Hahhhvahd MBA, too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:02 PM on 12/06/2008
- darthdarcy I'm a Fan of darthdarcy 48 fans permalink
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Bush wants to destroy the Unions so badly, he is willing to bring down the entire American automotive industry to do it..!

We could have Impeached him, always remember that or at least had the Impeachment hearings to keep him in check somewhat..!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:12 PM on 12/06/2008
- smag I'm a Fan of smag 4 fans permalink

We need more unions. After all where else can you sit on your ass in a job bank and not work and still get money. Are they too good for unemployment compensation? Oops, I forgot you can't draw 50 - 60 dollars on Unemployment. Buy are real car built by Americans Toyota, Honda or Hyundai.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 12/06/2008
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We need more CEO jobs where you can drive a company into bankruptcy, get paid hundreds of millions in bonuses, then let the taxpayer clean up your mess.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:59 PM on 12/06/2008

Thank you for weighing in, Dr. Getaclue.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:06 PM on 12/06/2008
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My lawyer charges $350 an hour. My Dad's lawyer charges $550 an hour. Although the wages you site are figments of your imagination, compared to my lawyer's fees they seem quite reasonable.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:41 PM on 12/06/2008
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He is even willing to bring the Economy into a Depression simply to destroy the Unions.

I agree Impeachment Hearings if called in January could help reduce further damages caused by the Bush Administration! I refuse to invest in anything until I know the MARKETS ARE PROPERLY REGULATED! I have lost TOO MUCH to these Banksters!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:44 PM on 12/06/2008
- flossophy I'm a Fan of flossophy 321 fans permalink
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... see what i mean?

PhilipTaylor.... it is because the Democrats BLOCKED REGULATION of Fannie & Freddie that we're in this financial mess. The Bush administration tried to regulate them many times - seeing the potential damage they would cause to the economy!

Direct your anger at the appropriate party... the Democrats!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:50 PM on 12/09/2008
- flossophy I'm a Fan of flossophy 321 fans permalink
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darthdarcy... the Unions are a big part of the problem. Their contracts are unsustainable.

How can Toyota, Honda & Nissan successfully manufacture in this country? they don't have unions...

Do the math.

All this junk about Bush wanting to destroy the unions is shameful... you should question those who are telling you these things. It's pure B.S.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:37 PM on 12/08/2008

I doubt that consumers are going to run out and buy American vehicles after the bailout. All this does is prolong the inevitable, period. The American Taxpayer has again been bamboozled by undeserving corporations, what a gig!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 PM on 12/06/2008
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 246 fans permalink

51% of the cars bought in America are from the Big 3.

Does that mean those that sell less should close down like Mazada and Nissan... BMW, Mercedes... Thye all are getting bailout dollars, government paid for healthcare and protected markets.

Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 12/06/2008
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The BAMBOOZLE is giving $350 Billion in TAXPAYER MONEY to WALL STREET BANKSTERS who stole AMERICA and the WORLD CLEAN using nearly every ILLEGAL TRICKS IN THEIR BOOK of TRICKS, including many NEW ONES they added!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:35 PM on 12/06/2008
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Elon Musk chairman, CEO and product architect for Tesla Motors Inc. says:

"Those who question whether the government should fund a company building a $109,000 sports car don't understand a cardinal rule of the tech industry: Early generations of any breakthrough product are always expensive. Cellular phones in the 1980s cost $2,000. So-called early adopters are willing to pay more for the newest items, amortizing R&D and subsidizing later buyers.

Hardware also becomes more affordable within several product cycles, whether on the time frame of Moore's Law (for semiconductor-based electronics) or, in the case of Tesla's lithium-ion battery capacity, at the fair clip of 8 percent per year. That's how Tesla will move from a six-figure sports car to a $57,500 sedan to a $30,000 subcompact within several years."

http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_11130750?nclick_check=1&forced=true

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 PM on 12/06/2008
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CNET video of the Tesla factory and showroom floor:

http://cnettv.cnet.com/2001-1_53-50004595.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:34 PM on 12/06/2008
- flossophy I'm a Fan of flossophy 321 fans permalink
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Nikola... are you perhaps on the payroll of Tesla Motors?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:42 PM on 12/08/2008
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 246 fans permalink

At a conference I was at long ago, A computer MFG bragged about how much the price of a computer had come down and how much faster they were and then he said why if only the Auto industry had done the same.

At that point an auto engineer stood up and said well if we had, it would be only one inch long and no one could fit in it.

Its not the same.

The steel, cooper and even plastics that go into a car are going up in cost. Labor rates will go up.


No one has the liabilty of people traveling 75 MPH in electronics... and smaller is not always better in cars. There are limits on how small a car can be and meet needs.

So while technology can get cheaper, it also has to get better ( computer prices are now holding, faster, better but not cheaper), shipping and MFG cost dont always drop and it has to meet safty and pollution std.. not a big deal for a chip.

There are for sure Economies of Scale.. the fixed enginnering cost is divided among more units and etc.

But a large part of what he said was nice marketing. By his STD , a Toyota today s/b selling for 1/3 of what it did in 1980 instead of 2.5 times more.


Regards .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 PM on 12/06/2008
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Uuuhh. . . the Toyota was not new technology. Your analogy is fatally flawed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:15 PM on 12/06/2008
- Big0725 I'm a Fan of Big0725 23 fans permalink
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That's a BIG load of malarkey!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:27 PM on 12/06/2008

Bad example using cell phones, one of the lowest margins for a product that exists. and most retailers subsidize the costs of the cell phone to make thier money on the service. Which wont work for a car obviously.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:07 PM on 12/06/2008
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Way to miss the point.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:57 PM on 12/06/2008

TO: Automakers December 6, 2008



At another post I mentioned that Senator Chris Dodd (D) Connecticut runs a State Welfare Department for only 6 months and that this is so cold and uncompassionate since crime exists and people need mercy and can change. I mentioned Senator Dodd is a leader on Banking Financial Committee and that a cruel man like this should not be in charge of money decisions. Well, in Alaska they have a time limit on Welfare as other states and make elderly people at age 60 work for food stamps. This is cruel to think you are Gods.

Gov. Napolitano of Arizona has Welfare program with a time limit and you think she is smart enough to run our Homeland Security office when she does not even know that crime exists, discrimination exists for all races and we need long forever Welfare programs. People can change and be converted. Jesus believed in people even the hardest criminal and came SAVE them not discard them unforgivingly and unmercifully so.

I never heard her say we need to put police on walking beats more often so they can SEE if a crime is occurring or some crazy is planting a bomb. Had other natiosn done this too they would be safe and Americans would be more safer against terrorists­,criminals­,etc.

Eva Hart A Christian In Army from 62-70 670 Eddy St. Sfc 94109

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:09 PM on 12/06/2008
- DMcMillan I'm a Fan of DMcMillan 9 fans permalink
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The two things that bother me the most about this is these companies have shipped jobs overseas and spent millions on lobbying against increased environmental standards all to put more money in their pockets. If they want help from taxpayers, both of those things need to stop. The Big 3 need a corporate attitude adjustment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:08 PM on 12/06/2008
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 246 fans permalink

And you buy cars with parts from China with no environmenal stds, no worker safety laws, air so thick you can cut it with a knife and water you cat drink.

And then say but Detroit is not GREEN! LOL.

You asked them to compete with places where workers make 1.25 per day. You did not protect them from 3rd world products that were dumped here to gain markete share... you thought they should pay workers a living wage while you bought from places that a living wage is 500 per year. Well the only way to do that is ship part of your MFG to the same places Toyota has its parts being made.

Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 12/06/2008
- DMcMillan I'm a Fan of DMcMillan 9 fans permalink
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Actually no, I did none of those things or have never thought any of those things or have ever condoned any of those things. Considering everything you said, look at the choices we are offered in the vehicle market - not much if you ask me. Many Big 3 auto parts come from third world environments. You would be better at making your point if you refrained from insulting others. Lame.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 PM on 12/06/2008
- DMcMillan I'm a Fan of DMcMillan 9 fans permalink
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I stand corrected, I bought a Dodge truck in 1997. The fine print at the bottom of the sticker on the window read "70% of the parts in this vehicle are made in Mexico". So, I guess I have participated at least once in everything you listed by way of supporting Detroit. Sorry, Mexico.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 PM on 12/06/2008
- tbone99 I'm a Fan of tbone99 90 fans permalink

Only companies that have green machines in the works or dedicated to enviromental solutions should get this money. That excludes companies that have made Hummers, are fighting tough emission laws in the courts and skirted compliance by creating vehicle categories that fell outside the law.

These companies and their leaders should not be rewarded with the GREEN money

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 PM on 12/06/2008
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http://www.teslamotors.com/ is still waiting for their $100M loan. And they have cars people want.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 PM on 12/06/2008

Very few people will pay over $100,000 for a car.

Gasoline-electric hybrids can be made at affordable prices.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:04 PM on 12/06/2008
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