Bush's Environmental Chief: There's "Not A Clean-Cut Division" Between Religion And Science

Think Progress:

A Philadelphia Inquirer profile of EPA Administrator Stephen Johnson this weekend reveals that the chief steward of our environmental protection is unwilling -- or unable -- to separate religion from science. The Wonk Room's Brad Johnson notes that, when questioned by reporters, Stephen Johnson admitted he does not see a "clean-cut division" between the two:

It's not a clean-cut division. If you have studied at all creationism vs. evolution, there's theistic or God-controlled evolution and there's variations on all those themes.

Read the whole story: Think Progress

Comments

[turquoise623]

What's the problem?
The guy didn't say he's a literal 7-Day Creationist. He said one can be both religious and accept evolution as fact. He did NOT say evolution is false or that religion should supercede science.
I'm certainly not a Bushite, but you people are being kneejerk just because this guy mentioned religion and science in the same sentence. Get over it.
There are more Christian evolutionists than there are literal 7-Dayers.

[davesideas]

yep, thank you!

[zanzig]

And let's all say, in unison with Stephen Hawking, "It's turtles all the way!"

[bubbuh]

Stephen Johnson and Dubya are clear cut proof of the scientific validity of Cretinism. I don't know why they keep sticking in the "a."

[BethA]

Here's my personal distinction between the Bible and Science. The Bible you can only take on faith because there is no proof, Science you take on verifiable proof not on faith. You can use the Bible to rule your home, but when you use it to rule the country you violate our laws of separation of church and state.

Science is used by government when its consistently provable, as in who's fingerprints were on the trigger.

The Bible is a bunch of interpretations/stories, written by tons of different people over thousands of years with tons of different opinions on every subject from which God is the real one to how to cook your food and who to sleep with, it has to be taken strictly on faith. The same faith that TV evangelists TELL you to have by sending in your hard earned money so they can live better than you. The same faith that once interpreted it that white men should make slaves of blacks, or that women had no legal rights. The same faith other religions control their subjects by citing their "bibles" in flying airplanes in to buildings for the sole purpose of killing humans. The Bible is so open to interpretation that it has been used to control people in many ways, some of which are good as in don't kill your wife, to Jim Jones saying his interpretation was kill yourself and your babies.

[FrederickofAmerica]

Kent Hovind has succeeded!

[M Razz]

Religion's central point is that:
- God cares about humans. Believe us: you matter! Everything is part of bigger plan of God.

While science says:
- Nature doesn't 'care' about humans: you don't matter in the bigger picture! Most species in the history of the planet went extinct. We better get our act together if we don't want to go the same path.

When it comes to the environment (and many other global problems) I would feel a lot safer if the scientific viewpoint was the central political MO.

[littlebuddylouie]

Well said,
I don't care what these peoples personal beliefs are. In the context of their positions, those beliefs shouldn't matter. They weren't hired to be theologians, and if the scientific evidence comes into conflict with those personal beliefs, then they either must be true to that evidence, or just admit that their beliefs are hindering their ability to carry out their duty and step down.
The Republican Party Platform reveals that the party itself has become a theocracy, and as such, is incapable of objectivity on issues concerning the separation of church and state. Considering the rigid adherence to religious ideology expressed in the platform, it isn't surprising that separating science from religion could present problems as well. It is something to be concerned about when people like Mister Johnson feel compelled to make their personal beliefs public. Of course, he's entitled to believe anything he wants, but that has nothing to do with the mission of the EPA.

[DKLabRat]

The obvious answer to this one is "If there isn't, there should be." One is a scientific theory which currently best suits the facts of the world around us and the other is a matter of faith. Chalk and cheese really.

[MagisterLudi]

" If we ask whether the position of the particle remains the same, we must say "no", if we ask whether the electron's position change with time, we must say "no". If w e ask whether the electron is at rest, we must say "no", if we ask whether it is in motion, we must say "no" Robert Oppenheiner.

Compare with "Upanishads":

"It moves, It moves not
It is far, and It is near.
It is within all this,
And It is outside of all this."

[MagisterLudi]

Upanishads--- 9th Century and earlier. Advanced philosophy.
Oppenheimer--20the Century. Hiroshima, Nagasaki.

Nearly identical understanding. Ah, but the results......

Those who attack spiritual philosophies have but a primitive understanding of the most advanced manifestations thereof. The solution lies in the fusion of advanced "Direct Experience" lore and metaphysics with Western science. I am NOT talking about organized "book" religions!
Those who know nothing about this subject can begin by reading: Tao Te Ching, Upanishads, Tao of Physics, Wu Li Masters, Chuang Tzu, Sufi writings, Ba'al Shem Tov etc. Warning: remember the axiom of all advanced Direct Experience advocates: Spoken Tao is not the Tao.

[planetjeffy]

Reli.igion is for the st.upid and w.eak. It does not belong in gover.nment.

[lesterbud]

In my many years in science, including a lot of time and effort in educating the public, I have come to the more accurate conclusion that religion is simply the refuge for the lazy. It takes effort to observe, think, compare, theorize, test, confirm, defend, publish and innovate. It takes effort to even try to comprehend the mere basics of modern chemistry, physics and biology, let alone physicalbiochemistry. It is so much easier just to sit in a pew, with fellow slackers, let someone else tell you what to think, what to feel, what to wear, what to eat, what to say and even how to reproduce. With peer support you can venture out into the world knowing that you really don't need to know.
But you had better honestly thank the people that have made the effort to develop your heart medications, your cell phones and your hybrid car.

[davesideas]

What a wonderfully lazy premise upon which to base one's life; as a scientist AND fundamental Christian. I find your comment to be amazingly arrogant...and, again, wonderfully so...

[davesideas]

How wonderfully arrogant of you...

[bluekatz]

I have to agree. And for the most part Religion seem to stifle progress. Those darn preachers they are the modern day snake oil salesmen. If religion is based upon faith and helping mankind then the preachers should not mind giving up that million plus salary. RELIGION IS A BUSINESS THAT PREYS ON THE WEAK! The term not for profit means something but to the BUSINESS of RELIGION it just means tax free.

[davesideas]

We give it our best guess...

[MagisterLudi]

djk37 posted the boastful challenge from Mr. Harris: "Here's a challenge from Sam Harris that makes a strong point:Think of a question for which we used to have no SCIENTIFIC answer, but for which we now have a RELIGIOUS answer."

SOLVED:This actually was quite easy.

European scientists were asking questions about the nature of space time, motion and...coming up with rigid Newtonian clock-universe laws.

BUT Taoist and Hindu religious traditions had a understanding of the universe considerably more sophisticated, even by levels of modern quantum physics.

All adherents of Newton physics had to do WAS ASK!!!

What is the relationship of micro and macro worlds?

Taoism, Buddhism and Hiduism answers: Unity of all Things. This is presented as most important characteristic-- the awareness of the unity and intimate interrelation between all things and events, as manifestations of that unity ( Brahman, Tao, Dharma kaya,)

18-19th Century of European science DREW a BLANK!

Only with Bohr and Heisenberg ( 1920s) Western sci began to understand this organic interconnectedness of the universe.

SLAM DUNK.

[Sumocat]

For the most part, Eastern religions, like scientific theories, are based on observations of the physical world. It's unfortunate that we in the states tend to lump religion under the Christian umbrella when there are so many more enlightened and scientific ways of thinking.

[MagisterLudi]

It is the unfortunate failing of the People of the Book. All three of them.

[WilliamP]

There is a very clear division between religion and science. Science draws conclusions based on observed evidence. Religion is a bunch of unsupported, unverifiable beliefs based on the written ramblings of people who lived centuries ago. I don't see any overlap between the two.

[groosemoose]

This is why Bush and his cartel of fundie morons belongs in the backwaters of history.

[adamsmith3]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. The EPA chief aside, many scientists (myself included) and many theologians feel there is overlap in science and religion. It depends on what level you're talking about. There are people who can believe that the Big Bang was God creating the universe or people who can believe that it is unexplainable at this point and leave its cause to natural causes (although, if the Big Bang was the beginning, how did it come about? Does there have to be some sort of creator at some point, even if the creator is not like the God that is often referred to?). I am a biologist, accept Darwinian evolution (although he had a few minor things wrong) and believe that life began on Earth with single-celled organisms (not Adam and Eve). But I still believe in God. Obviously there is conflict between tenets of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc and science.....but not a conflict with a belief in God. Maybe that is what this EPA chief was talking about.

[marymarcus]

Johnson's record pretty much explains what he's talking about.

[MajorKong]

Maybe if you took his remarks in a vacuum.

Taken in context of the Bush Administration's general disdain and hostility towards science and their constant pandering to the religious right - it's a little more ominous sounding.

[lesterbud]

Correct, but don't stop there.
This administration shuns not just science, but any bit of information that does not fit their manufactured model of the world.
WMDs - they are still there somewhere.
Torture not effective - sure it is, and fun too.
Trickle down does not work - worked for our friends in the top 1%.
and so on...

[MagisterLudi]

There's "Not A Clean-Cut Division" Between Religion And Science"
Yep, just there's no clear division between idi0ts and m0r0ns.

[zanzig]

I got the following statement out of a medical encyclopedia under the topic of mental retardation: "Mental retardation occurs in 2.5-3% of the general population. About 6-7.5 million mentally retarded individuals live in the United States alone. Mental retardation begins in childhood or adolescence before the age of 18. In most cases, it persists throughout adulthood."
My question is, how did you manage to get most of them into positions of authority?

[hrhkat29]

HA HA HA, GOD BUSH DOESNT DISSAPOINT!! IM GOING TO BE SO GLAD WHEN THIS COMEDY ACT IS OVER!