Bush's Environmental Chief: There's "Not A Clean-Cut Division" Between Religion And Science

Think Progress:

A Philadelphia Inquirer profile of EPA Administrator Stephen Johnson this weekend reveals that the chief steward of our environmental protection is unwilling -- or unable -- to separate religion from science. The Wonk Room's Brad Johnson notes that, when questioned by reporters, Stephen Johnson admitted he does not see a "clean-cut division" between the two:

It's not a clean-cut division. If you have studied at all creationism vs. evolution, there's theistic or God-controlled evolution and there's variations on all those themes.

Read the whole story: Think Progress

Comments

[myangeldog1]

Okay, I've got a question for you all! Now mind you I was raised Catholic and asked my Priest this same thing as a third grader....­needless to say he was not amused (even though I was serious) and spent my recess standing in the corner....­(I asked the same thing on another thread) here goes.

If God created Adam and Eve and they had Cain and Abel...the­n where did the rest of us come from?!

[MyTake]

Read the Sitchin books.

When the Adam & Eve thing occurred, a GOD was a 4th ranked classification in the org. chart of the day. You need to study all those clay tablets, with their writings and pictures, which were the first organized writings of the first organized human society that arose in that cradle of civilization in the Sumerian period. They tell a remarkable story that the religions cherry picked to fashion their followings.

Then just take that information and link it to the Human Genome Project, then the Adam and Eve story goes away.

[myangeldog1]

Thank you for this! It's interestin­g...I asked this same question on another thread and got 4 different answers from 4 different religious upbringings. Though I happen to believe in evolution.­...my question actually proved an entirely different point.....­there are thousands of different belief systems when it comes to a divine presence..­...and therefore impossible to determine which one should represent us all in our government­.........s­o the only fair thing to do is to allow.....­..none.

[Foreground]

IIRC, Adam and Eve are supposed to have had a ton of sons and daughters, of which only Cain, Abel and Seth were notable enough to mention by name. O'course, that still doesn't explain how Cain was able to find an entire city to live with after he had been condemned by God, but I suppose it was possible that, as Adam was supposed to have lived for around 900+ years (dunno if they ever mentioned Eve's age), some of his kids coulda had time to populate an entire city... amongst themselves­... and still have time for Cain to wander there. Or something.

Mind you, as a non-christian, I can't be 100% sure that that falls in with the official interpretations of the bible, but I'm fairly certain that Adam and Eve's multitude of children were at least mentioned in passing.

[dolphy]

I go to church regularly and I know a lot of bible stories. The story of Adam and Eve was an attempt of primitive people to explain how humans came to be. All around the world, people have their own pre-historic stories of how men came into being. These stories are mythologies. The Bible should not be interpreted literally.

[sws3030]

All that inbreeding!

I guess that explains all the people that voted for W in the last two elections.

[mabinog]

I guess the biological fact of DNA and in-breeding were temporarily suspended while A&E and clan all got busy to populate the world.

Spontaneously generated wives?

doing it with the Nephilim?

all us lesser mortals have to avoid that creepy, ewwwwwwwwwwwww sort of thing.

[Dayahka]

There sure is a very clear distinction between the two. A scientific theory is one that says that such and such is the case; if you find just one counter-example, the theory is false: For example, All Republicans are Idiots is a theory that can be tested; if you find even one non-idiot Republican, the theory is false. (I know, I know, you have to look very hard, but you'll find one...Same for the theory that all Democrats are idiots.) A religious theory, on the other hand, cannot ever be said to be false because here is no counter-evidence for it. Scientific theories are based on evidence; religious theories are based on faith or belief. For science, it doesn't matter what my faith is or what I believe; a fact is a fact. For religion, faith and belief are all that matter, facts be damned. A scientist says: If you give everyone access to the public treasury, you will bankrupt the nation. A religious person says: Give everyone access to the public treasury and god will protect you from bankruptcy.

[Foreground]

I dunno about that; Heliocentrism was proven false, and even the church eventually accepted that.

It's just really, really, really hard to prove religious theories as false, much less get that proof accepted by by the religion's followers, as almost all of them have the big walking loophole that is an omnipotent entity that's capable of rewriting the cosmos at its whim, ie: maybe the earth was really the center of the universe until the Jews started worshipping the golden calf, pissing off God enough to make the Earth start circling the sun, which circled the center of the galaxy, which etc, etc, etc.

And He put dinosaur bones into the earth cause he wanted to give otherwise unemployable paleontologists a reason for living.

[Foreground]

Whoops. As the rest of my post made clear, I meant that Geocentrism was proven false, not Heliocentrism.

[Woodmist]

Is it any wonder why we are so behind the world in science? Sheesh, these people do not belong in any position of authority where science is involved.

[JessWonderin]

let's not LIMIT that to "science involved" . . . seems that same group of snake dancers and rattle shakers have also mismanaged economic AND military matters as well . . . .

[ThePeacemakers]

Obama isn't keeping him on I hope?

I want to see Bush's bags that he's packing and all his appointees­....where the bags at?

[LeLoup]

Wonderful serie in the Philadelphia Inquirer about the gutting of the FDA under Johnson. This man is beyond pathetic, a true Bush loyal foot soldier who sold his conscience and respect for the facts as a scientist to the altar of narrow-minded ideology.

I'm beginning to think prof. Hansen is right; certain people ought to be charged with crimes against Humanity

[darthmaul]

"Johnson has faced mounting criticism from within his own agency and a Congressional investigatory panel for allegedly ignoring scientific findings when they have contradicted the Bush administration's political aims."

This explains why he ignores almost all of the "scientific advice" from his staff. He has "faith" in the auto company's and his boss, Bush, who regularly talks to god. God tells Bush to do, and then Bush tells Johnson what to do. Simple isn't it?

[Transrational]

The next time this man is sick or needs surgery
let him call a snake-handling faith healer.

[SimJack]

Part III

BUSH: Well, I think you can have both. I think evolution can -- you're getting me way out of my lane here. I'm just a simple president. But it's, I think that God created the earth, created the world; I think the creation of the world is so mysterious it requires something as large as an almighty and I don't think it's incompatible with the scientific proof that there is evolution.

>>Duality is good sign here, maybe there's the pontential for...

then there's the 'out of my lane' comment. I don't know but I'm thinking that if I had access to some of the biggest brains on the US payroll; the National Academy of Sciences, DoD, DoE, FDA, NIH, all the really cool secret research projects, etc., coming up with the 'simple president' characterization is beyond irresponsibility. It begs the question whether or not this is a symptom of total mental incompetence in a president and CiC or some other serious psychological defect. Syntax aside, who has been running this country because this guy doesn't seem to possess the mental an physical coordination to light his own farts with a match unless someone else lit it.

[bbriani3842]

Faith. . .as in "Iraq has WMD". . .

Verifiable Observations . . . as in "Hey! There ain't no WMD here."

Faith . . . as in "Markets work best with no government regulation­."

Verifiable Observations . . . as in "Unregulated Credit Default Swaps Led to Weakness" (courtesy of http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=96395271 )

Faith . . . as in "The Bailout will work most efficiently without oversight from Congress"

Verifiable Observations . . . as in ". . .union workers believe they are victims of a bungled bailout and that Bank of America, which received $25 billion in the federal rescue package, stands between them and their paychecks. "

Need I go on? Personally, I'm a little sick of having faith in these followers of Christ.

[JessWonderin]

sorry . . . not "follwers of Christ" . . . surely He would not have invaded an innocent nation killing millions nor creating an economy that wastes resouces taking away from serving those in need . . . .

[pons1595]

Oh, for Christ's sake. Who elected and who nominated these morons?

It is overwhelming that anyone alive today could actually think like this. We are doomed!

[myangeldog1]

It's very simple. I don't care whether you believe in G o d or not.......­.just keep it out of my government!

[HumeSkeptic]

And away from science.

[SimJack]

Part II

BUSH: That God created the world, I do, yeah.

>> What about the rest of the universe, bro? You know, stuff like outer space, galaxies, black holes. What do you think NASA is doing with all that money anyway, building hi-res spy sats so you can peak in on... (Everyone go ahead and fill in the blank_____­__________­_______/)

(Hypothesis: tiny black hole in George's brain. Experiment: Obtain brain sample for analysis and observation)

[myangeldog1]

Micro analysis.

[SimJack]

Part I

BUSH: Yeah, I mean, I do. I mean, evolution is an interesting subject. I happen to believe that evolution doesn't fully explain the mystery of life and ...

>>The process known as evolution pretty much explains the biodiversity of life as we define it since life arose on this planet. As yet, how life arose, is still unknown although several well thought out hypotheses have been put forth. Current paradigms suggest that this potentially can be explained using universally constant physical and chemical laws. Even if a higher power created the universe in the 'Big Bang', evolution is a specific branch of science (emphasis on 'science' because it requires a rigorous approach and has a narrow interpretation of it's conclusions as it applies to human understanding in the early 21st century) and does not attempt to address what occurred before the origins of life on earth. Every field of science defines itself specifically and as accurately as possible and, when necessary based on observation, hypothesis and experimentation, redefines itself. Reproducibility and self-correction are one of the foundations of the scientific principle, analogous in a way to what the Bill of Right is to the rest of US Constitution.

[AmandaBC]

I think it should read like this:

"Not A Clean-Cut Division" Between Religion And Mental Illness

[djk37]

LOL! I love that! Dead on!

[Balancement]

Could we *PLEASE* start putting rational people into government and have those who believe in Invisible-­Sky-Thingi­es-in-Char­ge just go work somewhere else? Please?

[LeLoup]

We could...if only we didn't have the dead weight of so many Americans going on with their life, head full of beliefs that flies in the face of elementary facts.