Obama's Global Warming Challenge: It's A Ticking Time Bomb

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SETH BORENSTEIN | December 14, 2008 09:41 PM EST | AP

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In this Dec. 9, 2008 file photo, President-elect Barack Obama meets with former Vice President Al Gore in Chicago. (AP Photo/Charles Dharapak, File)

WASHINGTON — When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore. Now it is a ticking time bomb that President-elect Barack Obama can't avoid.

Since Clinton's inauguration, summer Arctic sea ice has lost the equivalent of Alaska, California and Texas. The 10 hottest years on record have occurred since Clinton's second inauguration. Global warming is accelerating. Time is close to running out, and Obama knows it.

"The time for delay is over; the time for denial is over," he said on Tuesday after meeting with former Vice President Al Gore, who won a Nobel Peace Prize for his work on global warming. "We all believe what the scientists have been telling us for years now that this is a matter of urgency and national security and it has to be dealt with in a serious way."

But there are powerful political and economic realities that must be quickly overcome for Obama to succeed. Despite the urgency he expresses, it's not at all clear that he and Congress will agree on an approach during a worldwide financial crisis in time to meet some of the more crucial deadlines.

Obama is pushing changes in the way Americans use energy, and produce greenhouse gases, as part of what will be a massive economic stimulus. He called it an opportunity "to re-power America."

After years of inaction on global warming, 2009 might be different. Obama replaces a president who opposed mandatory cuts of greenhouse gas pollution and it appears he will have a willing Congress. Also, next year, diplomats will try to agree on a major new international treaty to curb the gases that promote global warming.

"We need to start in January making significant changes," Gore said in a recent telephone interview with The Associated Press. "This year coming up is the most important opportunity the world has ever had to make progress in really solving the climate crisis."

Scientists are increasingly anxious, talking more often and more urgently about exceeding "tipping points."

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"We're out of time," Stanford University biologist Terry Root said. "Things are going extinct."

U.S. emissions have increased by 20 percent since 1992. China has more than doubled its carbon dioxide pollution in that time. World carbon dioxide emissions have grown faster than scientists' worst-case scenarios. Methane, the next most potent greenhouse gas, suddenly is on the rise again and scientists fear that vast amounts of the trapped gas will escape from thawing Arctic permafrost.

The amount of carbon dioxide in Earth's atmosphere has already pushed past what some scientists say is the safe level.

In the early 1990s, many scientists figured that the world was about a century away from a truly dangerous amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, said Mike MacCracken, who was a top climate scientist in the Clinton administration. But as they studied the greenhouse effect further, scientists realized that harmful changes kick in at far lower levels of carbon dioxide than they thought. Now some scientists, but not all, say the safe carbon dioxide level for Earth is about 10 percent below what it is now.

Gore called the situation "the equivalent of a five-alarm fire that has to be addressed immediately."

Scientists fear that what's happening with Arctic ice melt will be amplified so that ominous sea level rise will occur sooner than they expected. They predict Arctic waters could be ice-free in summers, perhaps by 2013, decades earlier than they thought only a few years ago.

In December 2009, diplomats are charged with forging a new treaty replacing the 1997 Kyoto Protocol, which set limits on greenhouse gases, and which the United States didn't ratify. This time European officials have high expectations for the U.S. to take the lead. But many experts don't see Congress passing a climate bill in time because of pressing economic and war issues.

"The reality is, it may take more than the first year to get it all done," Senate Energy Committee Chairman Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., said recently.

Complicating everything is the worldwide financial meltdown. Frank Maisano, a Washington energy specialist and spokesman who represents coal-fired utilities and refineries, sees the poor economy as "a huge factor" that could stop everything. That's because global warming efforts are aimed at restricting coal power, which is cheap. That would likely mean higher utility bills and more damage to ailing economies that depend on coal production, he said.

Obama is stacking his Cabinet and inner circle with advocates who have pushed for deep mandatory cuts in greenhouse gas pollution and even with government officials who have achieved results at the local level.

The President-elect has said that one of the first things he will do when he gets to Washington is grant California and other states permission to control car tailpipe emissions, something the Bush administration denied.

And though congressional action may take time, the incoming Congress will be more inclined to act on global warming. In the House, liberal California Democrat Henry Waxman's unseating of Michigan Rep. John Dingell _ a staunch defender of Detroit automakers _ as head of the House Energy and Commerce Committee was a sign that global warming will be on the fast track.

Senate Environment and Public Works Chairman Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., vowed to push two global warming bills starting in January: one to promote energy efficiency as an economic stimulus and the other to create a cap-and-trade system to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from utilities. "The time is now," she wrote in a Dec. 8 letter to Obama.

Mother Nature, of course, is oblivious to the federal government's machinations. Ironically, 2008 is on pace to be a slightly cooler year in a steadily rising temperature trend line. Experts say it's thanks to a La Nina weather variation. While skeptics are already using it as evidence of some kind of cooling trend, it actually illustrates how fast the world is warming.

The average global temperature in 2008 is likely to wind up slightly under 57.9 degrees Fahrenheit, about a tenth of a degree cooler than last year. When Clinton was inaugurated, 57.9 easily would have been the warmest year on record. Now, that temperature would qualify as the ninth warmest year.

___

Associated Press writer Dina Cappiello contributed to this report.

WASHINGTON — When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore. Now it is a ticking time bomb that President-elect Barack Obam...
WASHINGTON — When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore. Now it is a ticking time bomb that President-elect Barack Obam...
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- realpolitic I'm a Fan of realpolitic 145 fans permalink

The conservative Republican approach to problems, such as climate change, is to ignore them. Gradually, things get to a point where they can no longer be ignored. Then non-ideological problem solvers must step in to make tough decisions. The rest of the world expects and depends on the United States to lead. Fortunately, with the Obama administration we are prepared to lead once again on climate change and other important issues.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:05 AM on 12/17/2008
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True- I am starting to think that they just like to argue on the side of their most fav conservative talking head. The downshot of this is that the conservatives have run this country for the last 8 years with their heads in the sand. So basically we have the conservative talking heads still spouting their beliefs formed over the last 8 years with their heads still in the sand. Hopefully sooner, rather than later they realize that the winds have changed in government and that one of those winds will allow science to be published w/out government hampering.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:21 AM on 12/17/2008
- realpolitic I'm a Fan of realpolitic 145 fans permalink

I am sure Obama will give the integrity to science that it deserves. He just appointed Nobel Prize-winning physicist Steven Chu for Energy secretary. Obama speaks of having scientists and leading thinkers to the White House for lectures on science and discussion. Such an approach will influence children to study science.

The Bush war on science has been one of the strangest things about this administration. I guess to cultural conservatives scientists are automatically the elitists. The scientis'ts ideas about warming threaten the profits of the energy companies that Bush and Cheney protect so much. Bush wants to let the market reign sureme unfettered by ideas of regulations and limits to pollution.

Republicans have come to seem like the party that embraces ignorance. Now is the time for more mature leadership with greater foresight. Other countries are eager to work with us. It should be interested how Obama and team approach alternative energy policies and perhaps some cap and trade system. These sectors of the economy will create a lot of jobs in the future.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 AM on 12/18/2008
- JEP57 I'm a Fan of JEP57 6 fans permalink

After awhile, this "crisis" can't always be taking place someplace else. I'm in my 50's and I've lived in one area, New England, most of my life. I don't notice the temperatures and weather patterns being any different now than when I was a kid. When I go to the ocean, I dont see the water level at high tide encroaching on peoples' property nor do I read any stories about people who live on the shore complaining about the water level getting higher. Even if sea levels are rising a minute amount and temperatures have gone up 1 degree C or so in a hundred years, it still isn't a crisis worth hurting our economy over.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 12/16/2008
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you could be right, except for the tipping points and the accelerated temp rise associated with them. If they turn out to be true then it will be a hard day for you and all your neighbors. Not from flooding, as of yet, that will take some time to melt the Greenland ice sheets. But if the growing seasons changed, and the rainy seasons changed, well we are not sure how that might turn out.

Funny thing is I am in my 30's and I already notice the weather patterns changing from when I was a boy. It is hard to put a finger on it but I am seeing a lot less ski days than I did growing up, and this is with the invention of snow making machines... I was commonly skiing on thanksgiving and one time skied on the 4th of July. Well I think those days are gone.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:40 PM on 12/16/2008

Are you serious? You ski less so you think we're making the planet warmer? I ski a lot less now then I did ten years ago, but that's because I moved to Nashville so the climate would suit my clothes. You know who else lives in Nashville? That's right, Senator Al Gore Jr. Does he live in a log cabin and live a vegan lifestyle? NO. He lives in a mansion and eats meat. He has taken advantage of all of you. WAKE UP. There are serious environmental issues. Global warming is a hoax.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 AM on 12/28/2008
- realpolitic I'm a Fan of realpolitic 145 fans permalink

Well, you are discounting the hurricane that toppled New Orleans, the California wildfires, and the flooding that topped levees in Iowa last summer. There was also the very severe heatwave that killed many in Europe not long ago. But at least you are comfortable there in New England.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:01 AM on 12/17/2008
- JEP57 I'm a Fan of JEP57 6 fans permalink

Don't forget when Katrina hit, it was downgraded to a catagory 3 hurricane. The city was destroyed because the levies were inferior and couldn't hold back the floods. Big hurricanes have been around forever.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:01 AM on 12/17/2008
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-30 F in Montana. Half of New Hamshire without power due to ice storms. Severest winter on record.

Yep, it's getting hot in here!

Oh, and let's not forget China and India telling us that as far as carbon emissions go, they'd rather eat. So go whizz up a rope, United States!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 AM on 12/16/2008
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are we supposed to believe that you are a beachrunner living in Montana?

Thank you for the weather update.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 PM on 12/16/2008
- DuganS1 I'm a Fan of DuganS1 18 fans permalink

There are other factors that are tremendously more important in determining the earths temperature than the burning of fossil fuels. The earth warmed tremendously more from 1650 to 1850 - a period where no fossil fuels were burned- than it has from 1850 'til now, which registers as a blip on a long term chart. In fact, the global temperature has cooled since 1998. The global warming issue is a political slogan by the radical left wing rather than a real serious issue. And why is it bad to have the polar ice cap melt a bit? It's been completely melted numerous times in the earth's history. It's not bad for the earth at all. If it continues to happen, it may be bad for some folks with beach front property in 100 years and some folks will feel bad about wild polar bears...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:25 AM on 12/16/2008
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CONT

But why should we? Well I need scientists to tell us the ramifications of a warming planet. They told of sea level rise. This is already occurring if you look to the pacific island nations being forced to evacuate, or to Britain installing a high tide protection system for London. They tell of erratic weather patterns leading to shifting harvest seasons and lands.

Now if you tell us that this is good and that the we can adapt I am sure we can. There is no doubt we could adapt, but what kind of conflicts would prevail? What would be the damage on the animal and plant worlds. What would the damage be on the human populations.

We need to start thinking more about one another and less about ourselves. We are more connected than we ever have been and we also posses the power to annihilate ourselves.

If there is something we can do to reduce this risk I say we take it. It is going to be a challenging lesson for us and our leaders, to learn that we can't wage wars like we have for all of our history. If global warming is allowed to continue I do not believe that we will see peaceful migrations of hundreds of millions people. Do you?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:52 AM on 12/16/2008
- DuganS1 I'm a Fan of DuganS1 18 fans permalink

The earth has been tremendously warmer and tremendously cooler at numerous times in its history. The global avg earth temperature could become significantly warmer than it is now and would still be in the long term temperature norm.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 AM on 12/16/2008
- Exusian I'm a Fan of Exusian 25 fans permalink

Quite true, but human civilization and all it's infrastructure were not around during those tremendously warmer and tremendously cooler periods.

Earth will do just fine. Humans.... maybe not so much.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 PM on 12/16/2008
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Ahh the global warming is good for me approach.

where are you getting your information? Why does it disagree with most the information out there?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png or try a google search for "global temperatures last 1000 years"

Below you stated how adding CO2 into the atmosphere could stave off a cooling period. Thus you must believe CO2 emissions have some effect on global temperatures.

Of course there are other more powerful factors in determining our climate. But the most powerful one that is man made is CO2. Controlling the actions of nature is more difficult and complicated than controlling our own actions, don't you agree? We are not suggesting that we control nature, we are suggesting that we need to control our actions that are contributing to warming of the planet.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:52 AM on 12/16/2008
- Exusian I'm a Fan of Exusian 25 fans permalink

So much misinformation in one post.

Fact: Greenhouse gases are second only to the amount of sunlight reaching Earth's surface in determining Earth's climate.

Without greenhouse gases Earth's average surface temperature would be around 255K, which would be around -18C, or just under 0F.

Greenhouse gases, even though they comprise less than 0.5% of the atmospher, water vapour included, are what keep Earth from being a frozen world over most, if not all of it's entire surface, making life as we know it possible.

Fact: Humans are directly or indirectly increasing the amount of every greenhouse gas in Earth's atmosphere, causing Earth's average surface temperature to rise.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 AM on 12/16/2008
- DuganS1 I'm a Fan of DuganS1 18 fans permalink

The increase in temperature has been minimal. The temp on earth increased dramatically from 1600-1850 without human burning any fossil fuels and the earth's avg temp has increased only a tiny amount since 1850. I believe the avg temperature on earth has actually come down since 1998 and is now at the same level (57 degrees) as it was in 1850, so it's clear that either the burning of fossil fuels has had little impact or the earth would without the burning of fossil fuels be going into a deep cooling period but the burning of such fossil fuels have kept the temp up during this time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 PM on 12/16/2008
- Exusian I'm a Fan of Exusian 25 fans permalink

1) If you could show us an actual temperature record that shows, as you believe, that the annual average global temperature for 2007 was lower than that of 1850 I'm sure that you would, but you can not because it is simply not true.

(I stipulate 2007 because 2008 is not yet over, so you'll be hard pressed to find an annual average global temperature for 2008.)

2) If you could show us an actual global average temperature *trend* that shows that trend has a downward slope (cooling) since 1998, as you believe, I'm sure that you would, but you can not because the trend has most definitely not been negative.

Anyone who argues that either of those is the case is ignorant of the difference between weather and climate and ignorant of standard statistical analysis of climate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 PM on 12/16/2008
- realpolitic I'm a Fan of realpolitic 145 fans permalink

Yes, I was going to echo the Exusian comment that you contain so much misinformation in one short paragraph. The year 1998 was not the hottest year on record. The hottest year on record was 2005, according to the GISS website. Global temperatures have not cooled since 1998, either. They are getting warmer as several of the graphs on the GISS website show.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2007/

Global warming is a political slogan only if you think all the scientists are engaged in some conspiracy, which many on the right do. It says more about the sanity of those on the far right than it says about the scientific community.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:27 AM on 12/17/2008
- Stephen C. Rose - Huffpost Blogger I'm a Fan of Stephen C. Rose 64 fans permalink
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:30 AM on 12/16/2008
- Pennsanic I'm a Fan of Pennsanic 9 fans permalink
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Increasing amounts of man-made greenhouse gases lead to an increase in the surface temperature on Earth. This temperature increase causes other effects, one of them being the increase of the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere. Although human activities do not directly add significant amounts of water vapor to the atmosphere, warmer air can contain more water vapor. Because water vapor is a greenhouse gas (as has been mentioned), global warming will be further enhanced by the increased amounts of water vapor.

The current global warming is caused by man-made greenhouse gases (mainly CO2, NOx and Methane).
Global warming leads to a higher temperature on Earth.
Due to the higher temperature, the air does contain more water vapor.
This additional water vapor (a greenhouse gas) does again increase the effect of global warming (a secondary effect). ~ Juerg

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:24 AM on 12/16/2008
- DuganS1 I'm a Fan of DuganS1 18 fans permalink

If the earth goes into a severe cooling phase (and many scientists think it will) because of the many more substantial factors that cause the earth to warm and cool besides emissions, then the added heat from the emissions could keep the polar ice caps from going back over Wisconsin and Minnesota, which would be a good thing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 12/16/2008
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I think we know how to *make* emissions. If we were facing a cooling period we very well could throw more CO2 in the atmosphere intentionally.

So that really isn't a problem now is it?

Unfortunately there really isn't anything we can throw into the atmosphere in great enough numbers to reduce the greenhouse effect

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 AM on 12/16/2008
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There is no greater challenge facing this new leader you have chosen. Your world and all of its inhabitants need dire change now or your species will face Extinction Level Events in your lifetime.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:57 AM on 12/16/2008

here is a relevant one about gore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruuux4AuHfQ

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 AM on 12/16/2008

Al Gore's best work to date. This video far surpasses anything he has done before...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmPSUMBrJoI

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 AM on 12/16/2008
- sammy333 I'm a Fan of sammy333 4 fans permalink

Climate? There is nothing for Obama to do, not an issue. Controlling the Fed, deflating and regulating the cancer of the financial sector, ending the wars, - yes, getting the economy, science, education, technology development back on track - yes. The climate discussion is a distraction. The only serious global issue is controlling the unsustainable population growth.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:47 PM on 12/15/2008
- AngieMom57 I'm a Fan of AngieMom57 68 fans permalink
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:05 PM on 12/15/2008
- ohiomark I'm a Fan of ohiomark 117 fans permalink

From the article:

"Mother Nature, of course, is oblivious to the federal government's machinations. Ironically, 2008 is on pace to be a slightly cooler year in a steadily rising temperature trend line. Experts say it's thanks to a La Nina weather variation. While skeptics are already using it as evidence of some kind of cooling trend, it actually illustrates how fast the world is warming."

So the "cooling trend" proves how fast the world is warming.

That is the biggest bunch of c r a p I've ever heard and it just proves how these enviro-nuts will say anything to push their socialist agenda.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:41 PM on 12/15/2008
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Couldn't read the last paragraph could ya?

14 years ago it would have been the warmest year on record. Now it is the 9th warmest on record. So how many records does that make in the last 14 years?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:49 PM on 12/15/2008
- Exusian I'm a Fan of Exusian 25 fans permalink

What cooling trend would that be?

Skidmark doesn't even know the definition of the word "trend" when it's used in the same sentence as "climate." I doubt he can even pronounce "statistical analysis."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:55 PM on 12/15/2008
- Tom Joad I'm a Fan of Tom Joad 253 fans permalink
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"Climate" and "climate change" are not defined by a single year. A single year is not a trend. "Climate" is the aggregate average of many years. I don't see the connection to 'climate change' and socialism. please explain...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:13 PM on 12/15/2008
- Javani I'm a Fan of Javani 6 fans permalink

You misunderstand.

The heightened sense of immediate crisis is necessary, politically. The "Comprehensive Climate Change Bill" can only be passed quickly because, firstly, people will find out about cap and trade, secondly, people will learn what cap and trade is about and how bad it is, thirdly, the news will start replaying Obama's video confession to newspaper people about how everybody's rates are going to rise.

In fact, Cap and Trade is such a devious stinker, and people doubt significant anthropogenic global warming, cap and trade will have to be hidden amid a comprehensive "Energy" bill.

Nothing new here, really. Obama, Emanuel, all have been talking obliquely how to get this through quickly. Some may think it insane to go for this with the video out there, but Chicago pols have no shame.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:23 PM on 12/15/2008
- Exusian I'm a Fan of Exusian 25 fans permalink

"In fact, Cap and Trade is such a devious stinker"

Oh, so that's why it was so successful in reducing sulfur dioxide emissions, then?

http://www.edf.org/page.cfm?tagID=1085
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/cap-trade/docs/ctresults.pdf
http://dnr.wi.gov/environmentprotect/gtfgw/documents/McTF20071113.pdf
http://tisiphone.mit.edu/RePEc/mee/wpaper/2003-003.pdf

But why take a look at how cap & trade has actually worked in the real world when you can lie about it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:46 PM on 12/15/2008
- Javani I'm a Fan of Javani 6 fans permalink

Yes, it's worked so well in Europe...when the first bubble collapsed, the Euros primed the caps again, now its collapsed again because like all derivative markets the money is moving out.

I have yet to see ANY evidence that the SO2 (a real pollutant) ",,,and Trade" part of the story did anything to help--including your links. Government "caps" all the time, it doesn't need the "trading". For CO2 carbon derivatives the big players are Wall Street. For SO2 market, it was Enron--so I guess any evidence of "success" is long gone. The system is built for scams, learn about "additionality". Also, SO2 was a domestic matter only involving only large upwind energy producers whose outputs could be accurately monitored. But again, I've seen nada that the trading of credits (let alone the new-fangled "offsets") did anything about SO2, especially what a cap alone could do.

Next to a cap a tax would be better, but then, that money would go to the government, and Wall Street derivatives traders would be left out.

BTW, check out Joyce Foundation, CCX and Obama

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:16 PM on 12/15/2008
- edwarvir I'm a Fan of edwarvir 36 fans permalink

Bush and the Clinton Admin ignored the scentist that
warned them about global warming Now we have no
choice but to do something about it and I think that
PE Obama's put some good people on his team that
will take this problem seriously.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:19 PM on 12/15/2008
- Photofarm I'm a Fan of Photofarm 19 fans permalink

Only that has happened is showing that Global Cooling is occurring, if you read the corrected temps from the " climate experts " after they post the wrong warming temps.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:42 PM on 12/15/2008

Just do what I am going to do. Stock pile food and water, get a firearm, learn to fire it and clean it, and then roll the dice and see how you come out once it all goes to hell. Maybe I'll live an extra 6 months, maybe I won't. All in All I think we can expect the worse though.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:13 PM on 12/15/2008
- Poyda I'm a Fan of Poyda 13 fans permalink

To sum things up so far:

On the one side:

1. Science, science, science.
2. Cleaner environment.
3. Less funding of international terr-orists.
4. Build stronger more stable economy.
5. Build a safer more secure America.
6. Avoid potential for calamity.

On the other side:

1. I found this awesome website and it said . . .
2. It was cold yesterday.
3. Oil is awesome, let's burn more.
4. Let's fund international terro-rists.
5. Let's adopt the Katrina model of disaster management.

Did I miss something?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:59 PM on 12/15/2008
- Photofarm I'm a Fan of Photofarm 19 fans permalink

Yep, there isn't " Science " on the man causing global warming side. It is Politics Politics, Politics on the global warming/climate change caused by man crowd.

Your solution would cause an economic calamity, and do nothing to change the climate, since man can't control the climate

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:45 PM on 12/15/2008
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maybe not at our level of technology we cant CONTROL the climate. That is not what we are worried about. But everything here affects everything there, one way or another. Polluting is having an affect on the temp of the atmosphere.

Now lets discuss the magnitude of the affect shall we?

(i never could get the right effect in the right place)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:53 PM on 12/15/2008
- Exusian I'm a Fan of Exusian 25 fans permalink

"there isn't " Science " on the man causing global warming side"

None that you could comprehend, anyway

But that hardly means there is none. In fact there are libraries, warehouses and walk-in freezers full of it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:03 PM on 12/15/2008
- Javani I'm a Fan of Javani 6 fans permalink

"Did I miss something?"

Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, the CCX, UN Carbon Credit profiteering, Cap and Trade will do nothing about getting our cars off oil (we don't use oil much for electricity), Pew Center for ..., Hank Paulson's "environmentalism", not much "science" really--you believe that feedbacks stuff? , cap and trade has done nothing to cut energy use and pollution in Europe, I could go on..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:27 PM on 12/15/2008

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/15/autos/chrysler_envi/index.htm?postversion=2008121513

"Chrysler is pinning a huge part of its future on a plan to produce a full line of electric vehicles, at a reasonable cost to both the carmaker and the consumer."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:32 PM on 12/15/2008
- Tom Joad I'm a Fan of Tom Joad 253 fans permalink
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about time. give them some money so they can step it up, please.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:42 PM on 12/15/2008
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