Prop. 8 Sponsors Seek To Nullify 18,000 Gay Marriages

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LISA LEFF | 12/20/08 09:36 AM | AP

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SAN FRANCISCO — The sponsors of Proposition 8 asked the California Supreme Court on Friday to nullify the marriages of the estimated 18,000 same-sex couples who exchanged vows before voters approved the ballot initiative that outlawed gay unions.

The Yes on 8 campaign filed a brief arguing that because the new law holds that only marriages between a man and a woman are recognized or valid in California, the state can no longer recognize the existing same-sex unions. The document reveals for the first time that opponents of same-sex marriage will fight in court to undo those unions that already exist.

"Proposition 8's brevity is matched by its clarity. There are no conditional clauses, exceptions, exemptions or exclusions," reads the brief co-written by Kenneth Starr, dean of Pepperdine University's law school and the former independent counsel who investigated President Bill Clinton.

The campaign submitted the document in response to three lawsuits seeking to invalidate Proposition 8, the constitutional amendment adopted last month that overruled the court's decision in May that had legalized gay marriage in the nation's most populous state.

Both Attorney General Jerry Brown, whose office is scheduled to submit its own brief to the court Friday, and gay rights groups maintain that the gay marriage ban may not be applied retroactively.

The Supreme Court could hear arguments in the litigation as soon as March. The measure's backers announced Friday that Starr, a former federal judge and U.S. solicitor general, had signed on as their lead counsel and would argue the cases.

Proposition 8's supporters assert that the Supreme Court lacks the authority or historical precedent to throw out the amendment.

"For this court to rule otherwise would be to tear asunder a lavish body of jurisprudence," the court papers state. "That body of decisional law commands judges _ as servants of the people _ to bow to the will of those whom they serve _ even if the substantive result of what people have wrought in constitution-amending is deemed unenlightened."

The cases are Strauss v. Horton, S168047; City and County of San Francisco v. Horton, S168078; and Tyler v. State of California, S168066.

SAN FRANCISCO — The sponsors of Proposition 8 asked the California Supreme Court on Friday to nullify the marriages of the estimated 18,000 same-sex couples who exchanged vows before voters appr...
SAN FRANCISCO — The sponsors of Proposition 8 asked the California Supreme Court on Friday to nullify the marriages of the estimated 18,000 same-sex couples who exchanged vows before voters appr...
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The sponsors of Proposition 8 are also working on a heart breaking machine and a giant party pooper gizmo that will be mounted on a series of flatbed trucks and driven about California ruining it for everyone.

Then they will tell us that we shall spend an eternity suffering in the fiery depths of hell. They are also working on a machine for that, as well as an automatic birthday ballon popper and wedding day rain machine.

What a bunch!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:12 PM on 12/20/2008
- karinova I'm a Fan of karinova 27 fans permalink
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Question:
If you get married in a church, by a minister, but without a marriage license, is your marriage legal?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:00 PM on 12/20/2008
- lizziekw I'm a Fan of lizziekw 39 fans permalink

Meh. It's iffy. It depends on the jurisdiction and the length of the relationship. If it came down to a court challenge (one party claiming you were married, the other party claiming you were not married) some courts would rule one way, some another.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:19 PM on 12/20/2008
- karinova I'm a Fan of karinova 27 fans permalink
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What the...?

It's "iffy"?
It... "DEPENDS"?!

Oh, well then CLEARLY the foundations of traditional-marriage-as-we-know-it are sound. Gay people are obviously what we all need to be worrying about.
*rolls eyes*

What kind of janky legal system IS this??

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:43 PM on 12/20/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 294 fans permalink

I don't think so. You have to get a license to be married.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:37 PM on 12/20/2008
- mjb5406 I'm a Fan of mjb5406 27 fans permalink
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Probably not. Religious ministers get their power to marry from the same place judges, justices of the peace, etc. get it... the state. If a valid license is missing, the marriage is null and void.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:59 PM on 12/20/2008
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It would serve these hate mongers right if they over played thier hand and California just decided to enact legislation that would initiate a "Civil Marriage" with all the legal benefits that entails and "religious Marriage" to be granted by the individual church based on thier ideology weather its hateful and exclusive or not.
We know the things that threaten marriage and the family yet gay marriage isn't one of them by a long shot. So why do a disproportionate amount of funds and effort of these religious groups go to such an inconsequential group? Why are they not fighting for legislation banning adultry and divorce when we know for sure the devastating effect these chosen behaviors have on the "sanctity of marriage" and the Family unit? I would suggest that it is easier to hate a minority group instead of the majority group that often are members of thier own congregation. The right couldn't even offer up a presidential candidate that had not been married more than once. Forget about finding one that hadn't committed adultry. Oh ! That's different. Right Pastor Warren? After all they are straight and thier "parts" fit together .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:40 PM on 12/20/2008
- Meah I'm a Fan of Meah 52 fans permalink
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I say, do not worry about Kenneth Starr, the Ludicrous. This is as ultimately unconstitutional as it would be for my interracial marriage to be revoked by a bunch of bigots.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:38 PM on 12/20/2008
- clsmithj I'm a Fan of clsmithj 10 fans permalink
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Why the hell did they put it on the ballot in the first place, you don't make history by doing sh*t like that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:36 PM on 12/20/2008
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It's the Plessy v. Ferguson, slaves are 3/5 human, type of history.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:47 PM on 12/20/2008
- RGKahn I'm a Fan of RGKahn 5 fans permalink

The California Constitution contains the following provision "CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS

SEC. 9. A bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing
the obligation of contracts may not be passed.

"An ex post facto law (from the Latin for "after the fact") or retroactive law, is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences of acts committed or the legal status of facts and relationships that existed prior to the enactment of the law."

The U.S. Constitution contains the following Article One Section nine subsection "3 No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:31 PM on 12/20/2008
- karinova I'm a Fan of karinova 27 fans permalink
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Well in that case, I smell a ballot initiative coming:
"Prop 8B," to define Latin as is an "abomination," and thereby inapplicable to law.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:58 PM on 12/20/2008
- karinova I'm a Fan of karinova 27 fans permalink
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Oopsie. Should be "define Latin as BEING an abomination."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:59 PM on 12/20/2008
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Marriages are contracts too, right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:49 PM on 12/20/2008
- mjb5406 I'm a Fan of mjb5406 27 fans permalink
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Basically, these "save marriage" zealots are trying to grandfather in all of the previous marriages which, constitutionally, is illegal. It would be like a law passed outlawing the smoking of cigarettes and saying that anyone who ever in their life smoked can be arrested.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:01 PM on 12/20/2008
- buckbuck11 I'm a Fan of buckbuck11 13 fans permalink

Another example why accommodation, "reaching across the aisle," triangulation and all this other happy Obama clap-trap will not work with idealogues. Compromise is not in their vocabulary particularly on issues of guns, gays, and reproductive choice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:21 PM on 12/20/2008
- zanbama I'm a Fan of zanbama 13 fans permalink
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Are they losing their mind or what. How do you allow people to get married and then take it back.....once your married that's it. The only way to nullify is if one of the spouses wants to because the marriage is not working out. DUUUHHH!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:15 PM on 12/20/2008
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it is infuriating. i cannot imagine what those couples are going through right now. unbelievable.

HATE SUX

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:21 PM on 12/20/2008
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i love the idea of universal civil union. want a church wedding - go for it. don't - cool. lawfully unite. period.

also, to nullify 18,000 marriages is not only despicable, but also grossly offensive. i cannot imagine the feeling i would have if someone told me my marriage didn't exist anymore. (hubby certainly knows better! i kid, i kid.)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:13 PM on 12/20/2008

We have that right now. It's called marriage. Society is just figuring out that gays shouldn't be excluded from it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 PM on 12/20/2008
- HARVIN I'm a Fan of HARVIN 7 fans permalink

Why not nullify bigotry,hatred?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:06 PM on 12/20/2008
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hear hear!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:21 PM on 12/20/2008
- wijg I'm a Fan of wijg 44 fans permalink
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Good Christian man, that Kenneth Starr...

Not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:59 PM on 12/20/2008
- Oonagh I'm a Fan of Oonagh 31 fans permalink

How come these toads keep surfacing...I thought we had heard the last of him... too bad.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:37 PM on 12/20/2008
- wiseraven I'm a Fan of wiseraven 2 fans permalink

Why is Ken Starr so preoccupied with others' sex lives? First, Bill Clinton's, and now gay people. Does he have some unresolved issues? Is he and the other str8 bigots so miserable at the thought of people having sex that is non-procreative that they must rail against it? Again, if one doesn't like gay marriage, then don't marry a gay person!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:53 PM on 12/20/2008

What a bunch o grinches.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:48 PM on 12/20/2008

Here comes Mr. Starr, once again, reigning havoc upon the U. S. – using the legal system to bully, intimidate and marginalize its citizens. Wasn’t there a Senator from Wisconsin who did something similar in our not to distant past - in the name of AMERICAN VALUES? Can this man be deported to Cuba or North Korea? I’m sure they’d love to have him!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:48 PM on 12/20/2008
- Oonagh I'm a Fan of Oonagh 31 fans permalink

Wasn't he called McCarthy....... wasn't he a Republican

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:37 PM on 12/20/2008
- isis I'm a Fan of isis 20 fans permalink
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Being able to nullify marriage shows the weaknesses of marriage and undermines it. Maybe we should just nullify all marriages and declare a do-over for everybody.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:34 PM on 12/20/2008
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