Rick Warren And Obama: What Is 'Traditional Marriage' Anyway?

So, I'm pretty much on the record as expressing dissatisfaction with President-Elect Barack Obama's tone-deaf and unnecessary choice to have Rick Warren, the Prop-8 supporting pop-preacher/celebrity author, give the invocation at the Inaugural. It doesn't mean I object to "dialogues" between people and it doesn't mean I'm taking a crap all over the Obama presidency as a whole. It seems to me that there's just no good reason why the Inauguration has to include a moment where a group of citizens gets insult rubbed in their faces when it could just as easily be avoided without wrecking whatever amazing dialogues Obama wants to have with the religious right.

Nevertheless, I get emails that say things like:

Please get it right-- Warren is not "antigay," he is anti gay marriage. He understands that in all societies in the history of the world, marriage has been exclusively an institution between men and women. He gets that the majority of people in America think it should stay that way. He gets that although marriage to someone of the same sex has not been a "right" for anyone in any culture in human history till now, folks like you have magically made it a "right".

Uhm, yeah. People maybe need to think before they glibly hold forth on what "all societies" and "history" has said about what constitutes "traditional marriage." Point of fact, the tradition of marriage in American society has undergone repeated, radical changes in definition. I mean, once upon a time, "traditional American marriage" was between a man and some chattel! Author and blogger Ariah Fine has done a lovely job capturing these changes pictorially:

The above emailer, by the way, demands that I "please tone it down." No!

Comments

[ReHoover51]

So does Rick Warren now welcome gays, all gays, as members of his church? Or is he simply embarrassed of his views - embarrassed of God's views, per Warren's own admission? And if Warren is embarrassed of God's views, then what is he doing as a public spokesman on religion?

[larmarch5]

OK, all you remarried divorcee's get ready for the next proclamation: No marriage of one or more divorced people is legal. Just check the Bible.

[klaatu barada nikto]

As this unfolds I can only be impressed with the social engineering. Do you think Obama's team didn't know what the reaction would be? This will sound far fetched the more emotionally attached you are to this issue and that is how it must be. For change to occur you must have righteous indignation on your side. Both sides will be angry but the side of truth will win and blind faith never represents truth but cowardice.

[AbbieXHoffman]

I have problems with Jason's blogs at times but he is certainly not blind on this one. Of course Obama's team didn't know what the reaction would be?" The point is he doesn't care because he gets A LOT more from Warren that a little from gays would give.

Must everything be spelled out? BO has made it clear that he wants his swan song to be that he was the guy who made alternative energy happen--he wants to be the guy who saves the planet and creates new jobs for the country he wants it badly. That's great and that's why he is embracing Warren. Warren has a huge following and one of the only religious leaders on record embracing global warming initiatives. (did I say that right?) BO is so focused on that and either doesn't care if the gays get thrown under the bus.

I think it's great he wants to push alternative energy and such but he could have done this WITHOUT giving this bigot the crown jewel for pastors and insulting gays on his CHANGE day.

[AbbieXHoffman]

I meant of course BO knew what the reaction would be.

[mcpizzie]

Obama chose Warren to try and sway right wing evangelicals into his voting block. He didn't give a hoot about how the gays - who were already there - would feel.

[Repub4Obama]

So when he said OVER AND OVER AND OVER that he was running for President to try to bring us all together, you did not believe him?

This is what bringing us all together looks like, everyone. And in case you're a bit dense, when he said "all of us" I'm pretty sure he meant ALL and not just "all of those that voted for me".

[helonias]

Just think that if Rick stuck to his biblical beliefs about what the bible *god and Jesus) says about adulteres and the divorced, he would loose 1/2 his attendance and income.

[ReHoover51]

now yer talkin' in $$$$$$ and sense ... that is all the snake oil salesmen are in it for PERIOD!!
2000 yrs of torture, molestation, murder, rape, lies, child abuse and slander in the name of a fairy tale g*d demonstrates that someting just isnt right here

[helonias]

A tradiiona; marriage like

Ronnie Reagan

I mean John McCain

I mean Rudy G

I mean Larry Craig

I mean Con. Vitter

Never mind

[amcg50]

don't forget Newt!

[helonias]

ooops

and Rush

[Enlightened22]

This whole discussion will be over in ten years. Gay marriage will be accepted only because society is moving toward equality of rights for each citizen. Institutions, and the ones benefiting from them, are always those who stand against such equality. This time is the church oppressing gays and lesbians but because their core belief is against equality, it does not stand a chance to resist the assault. This is exactly what the picture above showed. A movement that certainly won't stop before any citizen recover their rights.

[brklynivn]

After reading about the violence that is happening against and watching the disgusting ganging up of that guy on Morning Joe this morning I say gays and lesbians are underreacting.

[fdavidm]

I tired of this Rich Warren I love gays crap. If he really loved gays but was only against gay marriage, he would be working for equal protection for gay couples at the very least and would be backing federally recognized gay civil unions. To my knowledge he's done nothing of the kind. He is a religious hypocrite.

[comacoma]

Couldn't agree more.... and regardless of anything else he says or does.. he's in it for the money and the power: the real guiding principles of religion.

[helonias]

He clearly isn't one of those do unto others kinda christians

[michiganfan]

Not to mention that if he wasn't anti-gay, he wouldn't be running camps to "cure" people of their homosexuality...

[liberaldemdave]

...and would allow us to join his (not God's) church without preconditions.

[AnotherTry]

Two lesbians have been brutally raped since this decision and Barack Obama thinks we're over reacting? It is exactly his attitude of building bridges that legitimizes hate and bigotry. A man who can not stand up to bigotry is no man in my eyes. I will refer to him as Madame President from now on. I guess we got a female President after all.

[independent32955]

i'm sorry, but do you have a URL for that? and how does a crime of rape map to Obama's decision to have Warren pray at his inauguration?

I'm not fan of Warren's but there's blaming someone for something and then there's just plain crazy.

[Pema]

What has happened to the two women has concerned me as well, this might be the backlash from standing up to the Rick Warren choice.
I also have lost respect for Obama. Its pretty dang sad that Cheney has a more enlightened attitude to gay marriage than Obama.

[PalibanMom]

Why would you lose respect for Obama? How can you have any?

Don't you pay attention? He's a DINO (Democrat in Name Only). He's more conservative than Hillary Clinton; look at all of his appointments and actions. Emanuel, a hardcore partisan. Vilsack, a boy of agribusiness. Voted in favor of the FISA Amendments Act, continuing warrantless wiretapping against Americans . . . and plans to continue those abuses.

Status Quobama is keeping the change.

[klaatu barada nikto]

So you are saying that they were raped because they were gay and that Warren condones this?

[aftershock]

Ummm yes... there's a story on the front page of this very site about a lesbian in S.F. who was gang raped simply for being a lesbian and having a pride sticker on her car. Does Warren condone this, no, not explicitly at least.

[JimR]

I don't agree with Warren, but what does that awful event have to do with him?

[liberaldemdave]

maybe it's tangential...see, now WE in the glbt community are the ones rick warren is accusing of attacking him! it's not attacking, rick, it's called standing up for what we believe in...which is less than what you've done by scrubbing YOUR church's web site of its homophobia.

[Ged2012]

Rick:

Obama has always been against gay marriage, so is Biden. But they fully support civil unions without the benefit of marriage.

[nomadicexpat]

then what is the "benefit" of marriage? the church service? what if my church wants to marry gays, should we not be allowed because Rick's church thinks it's icky???

[independent32955]

if you have a church that wants to bless your same sex union, great, go for it. but don't make churches that do NOT want to bless them have to.

if we have freedoms in America, gay people should have the same rights as heterosexuals, but churches should be allowed to profess what they believe in as well.

[klaatu barada nikto]

Actually, yes. They believe "marriage" should be up to the religion involved.

[michiganfan]

Yep. After all, as with all religions, they know that theirs is the one true belief and therefore everyone else needs to live by their rules...

The benefit of marriage is being able to say that you are married, being able to say wife or husband instead of partner. If you give someone all of the benefits of marriage, except the benefit of claiming marriage, you aren't really giving them all of the benefits of marriage.

South Park, as always, was able to illustrate this point with brilliant satire when they had characters pressing for gays to be allowed to form a union that would have all of the benefits of marriage, except it would have a different name, "butt buddies."

What you call it, really does matter.

[rogerse]

The only right gays have to anything is civil unions, everyone knows this including the president-elect.

[CatfishAndGrits]

(channeling Stephanie Miller)

Silence...­....Silenc­e

Don't speak

Don't Speak

Shut up

Don't speak

[aftershock]

Not according to the Supreme Court. According to them, "marriage is a basic human right"

[natas]

Why doesn't Warren just come right out and call for the stoning of anyone committing sex outside of marriage? Why does he have to say that supposed Christian discrimination laws about marriage only apply to homosexuals? And isn't it funny how he pretends to have some holy book that says he's right? Yet "gay marriage" is never mentioned anywhere in his scriptures. Whereas punishment for divorce and sex outside of marriage is rampant. He sounds like a 1950's bigot railing against mixed race marriage on the grounds of some biblical passage about "sticking with your tribe."

You'd think that if he possessed the cognitive skills at the level of your average 3rd grader, he'd be demanding that any homosexual wishing to do the nasty be forced into marriage with their partner.

Good luck converting the masses to your Jesus of Intolerance. I'm sure a man tortured to death for his message of accepting everyone, including his best friend the prostitute, would love to see you discriminating on his behalf. Maybe you can open up a steak house in honor of Gandhi while you're at it.

[LiarLiarIraqsOnFire]

As a Christian who has read the Bible many times I can assure you Traditional Marriage in The Bible is defined as ONE Man & As Many Wives As The Man Could Afford To Support.

Furthermore, I'd like to quote what Jesus Christ had to say about homosexuality, " "

Peace, Love & Tolerance NOT Division, Hate & Judgment.

[independent32955]

That's not the only thing Jesus said about sexual immorality, but then I don't figure you're actually trying to build bridges here.

[helonias]

He condemned being an adulterer not being a gay

[brklynivn]

I love the pick and choose of Bible quotes from the Christian set.

[Giada]

"Rick Warren is not against gays, just gay marriages." This is why one must recant being gay to join RW's church ....the preacher with zero credibility.

[imusintheevening]

Who would want to be a member of a church that preaches discrimination?

Are ski n head gangs tax exempt too?

[PalibanMom]

How exactly is it "discrimination" to follow God's teachings? The Bible is crystal clear on homosexuality:

Leviticus 20:13 (KJV)

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

There's no "discrimination" here. There's God's Law. Christians MUST obey it, or go to Hell. Period.

[PresWatch]

We don't live in a theocracy, therefore if you try to enact anti-gay or anti-gay marriage laws based on your "Christian" beliefs, you are discriminating.