AL FRANKEN RECOUNT LEAD: Final Count Still Needs To Be Settled

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BRIAN BAKST | December 23, 2008 11:12 PM EST | AP

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ST. PAUL, Minn. — Minnesota voters won't know who won the state's U.S. Senate race this year, and it's looking more likely that the new Congress will be sworn in before the race ends between Democrat Al Franken and Republican incumbent Norm Coleman.

The state Canvassing Board on Tuesday scheduled a Jan. 5 meeting and its chairman said the panel's work could spill into Jan. 6 _ the day the next Congress convenes.

Franken leads Coleman with an increasingly small number of ballots yet to consider. Franken finished the day up 47 votes, according to a preliminary report by the secretary of state's office. An earlier report by the office had placed the margin at 48 votes, but the Canvassing Board made one correction, costing Franken a vote.

For the second time in two weeks, the state Supreme Court got involved in the election, this time hearing arguments over ballots Coleman's campaign claims were double counted.

Secretary of State Mark Ritchie said there is no way the board will certify a winner this year.

"We are not in any way guided by any Washington consideration, timeline," said Ritchie, a Democrat. "These folks have people's lives in their hands."

Coleman's campaign disputed the allocation of some challenged ballots and called some of the board's rulings inconsistent. It said correcting the errors would have produced a 49-vote swing in Coleman's favor.

Franken's campaign has also brought to the board's attention some possible errors, which it says amounts to 43 potential votes in the Democrat's favor.

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The board will meet Dec. 30 to consider the allocation report.

In court Tuesday, Coleman attorney Roger Magnuson argued that dozens of voters in 25 precincts, mostly in Democratic-heavy Minneapolis, may have gotten two votes. The voters had ballots that couldn't be fed through counting machines, so duplicates were made by election judges. Coleman's campaign alleges that both duplicates and originals made it into the recount.

It urged the Supreme Court to reconcile the number of voters with the number of ballots and disqualify ballots when there is a mismatch. "This election will turn on double voting," Magnuson warned.

Justices repeatedly asked Coleman's campaign for hard evidence showing votes were counted twice. Magnuson said he needed a court order forcing the matchup of voter rolls and ballot counts to do that.

"You're asking for extraordinary relief," Justice Paul Anderson told him. "You're asking us to stop the Canvassing Board in its tracks."

Franken attorney Bill Pentelovitch said granting the request would force officials in all of Minnesota's 4,100-plus precincts to redo the recount. He said Coleman's campaign "cherry-picked" precincts in an effort to overturn rules it consented to before the recount.

"What they're really asking is to undo the rules under which this recount was done, and there will be chaos," Pentelovitch told the court.

Justices didn't say when they would rule, but election cases generally get expedited treatment.

Regardless of the outcome of that case, the vote totals could shift again when state officials open as many as 1,600 absentee ballots that were incorrectly rejected on Election Day. Franken's campaign fought for their inclusion, but it is anyone's guess how those votes will break.

The Supreme Court ruled last week that improperly rejected absentee ballots must be included in the state's recount. Under a proposal awaiting ratification, the board would count the ballots that recount officials and the campaigns agree were wrongly excluded from the earlier vote tallies, Ritchie said.

But that process is also laden with problems. Under a Supreme Court ruling last week, either campaign can object to the counting of each of the absentee ballots. The ballot would be set aside unless the voter heads to court for an order to count it, Ritchie said.

The race went into overtime because Coleman led Franken by 215 votes after the Nov. 4 count of about 2.9 million ballots. That was well within the automatic recount law triggered when races are within one half of one percentage point.

ST. PAUL, Minn. — Minnesota voters won't know who won the state's U.S. Senate race this year, and it's looking more likely that the new Congress will be sworn in before the race ends between Dem...
ST. PAUL, Minn. — Minnesota voters won't know who won the state's U.S. Senate race this year, and it's looking more likely that the new Congress will be sworn in before the race ends between Dem...
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- mtracy9 I'm a Fan of mtracy9 212 fans permalink

If this was a presidential election, our right-wing Supreme Court would have already stepped in to stop the vote count and declare Coleman the winner.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 AM on 12/24/2008
- janfin I'm a Fan of janfin 2 fans permalink

Yea Al!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:59 PM on 12/23/2008

All states should mandate a "revote" when the Election Day result is less than a 1% difference. Especially so in this case where minor party candidates received votes that might have gone to one of the top two finishers. The process seemed to work out real well in Georgia, even if the result wasn't to my liking.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 12/23/2008
- AliMB I'm a Fan of AliMB 72 fans permalink
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i agree.. that would be ideal... however, one small correction­... in georgia there was a "run-of" (the top two candidates), but a "revote" means all candidates appear on the ballot again (in the case of georiga, that would have included the strong third party candidate). for those of you out there who might have worked/researched on democracy/good governance issues, i think which is preferable is usually decied on a combination of factors: how electoral zones are divided, the vote difference, the politial system, irregularities, etc.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:40 PM on 12/23/2008
- AliMB I'm a Fan of AliMB 72 fans permalink
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I will restate my argument, i have great concern with a US senate seat being decied by 48 votes. there is nothing wrong with plurality rule, but tightness of the final vote total lends weight to the saliency of a runoff/revote; that would be in the best interest of the state e.g avoid the next 6 years of the opposition saying the incumbent stole the seat by 48 votes.... of course, that is not the law in minnesota (we're not arguing over the legality of a 48 vote victory), but I am talking about an ideal situation, and also in future cases. If x candidate wins by 1%, that would be considered a squeaker, but we're you're taking about thousands of votes. 48 votes is too close. i've worked with certain democracy projects in latin america, and this vote differential would be considered null by many international observors if we were talking about a sizeable constituency ... also, there are way too many irregularites. votes being counted/not counted, ballots appearing after the election, etc. Too much room for error, fraud, bad math, etc. I am not under any circumstances arguing that that Franken shouldn't take the senate seat (the law is the law), just that in the interest of participatory democracy this election should have gone to a run-off. and that is a non-partisan opinion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 PM on 12/23/2008

YAWN!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 PM on 12/23/2008
- Episcopagan I'm a Fan of Episcopagan 141 fans permalink

That would be up to the voters of Minnesota and their representatives in the Minnesota Legislature.

They are the ones who decide how things are done in Minnesota.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 12/23/2008
- AliMB I'm a Fan of AliMB 72 fans permalink
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i agree...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:54 PM on 12/23/2008

We know what we read,we don't know the details of votes appearing out of nowhere.We have seen voter caging by Republicans,we know how how electronic voting machines were contracted to Diebold,a company run by Republican­s.We know how Republican Sec. of States were enlisted conspiratorially to strip people off the voting rolls in such a manner that the majority of them would be Democrats.­We know how felons names were used to strip registered voters of their right to vote.You can call all this hearsay,but do your own research and you'll find it's true.We know that Diebold is able to provide a receipt every time we visit an ATM,why not for a vote?To say you're giving a non-partisan opinion is misleading too,all your comments prove you to be a right winger.Do you also believe it was proper/legal for the SCOTUS to stop the vote count in Florida?If you want to state your opinion that's all well and good,just don't call it non-partisan.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 12/23/2008
- AliMB I'm a Fan of AliMB 72 fans permalink
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i think most of your comments (diebold, voter rolls, etc.) do not address the argument for a run-off/re­vote... but if what you say is true, then it would only lend further weight to the argument of irregulari­ties... and i am giving a non-partisan opinion; only through a politiczed prism could you argue that a run-off in a double-digit race is partisan. if coleman were up by 48 votes, i would tell you the same thing. i am not from minnesota, so i dont have personal stake with who wins. my above comaprison is also apt; if this were a latin american country, many international observors would consider this senate election null (i know because i worked on a similar problem recently). regarding florida: because of the small vote difference, i would have prefered a revote. if that would have changed the outcome of the election and given the presidency to Gore, than so be it. i find it strange that you call me a rightwinge­r... i haved worked funder the bush administration, and i will under for the obama administration. my allegiance is to good democratic practices and to the advancement of american interests. but maybe you consider that partisan as well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:18 PM on 12/23/2008
- Rrhain I'm a Fan of Rrhain 14 fans permalink

And what's your threshhold? Suppose it's 100 votes. Do you really think the emotional response you're trying to quell is going to be non-existent if the difference is 101? You're only introducing more issues into it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 PM on 12/23/2008
- AliMB I'm a Fan of AliMB 72 fans permalink
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good point, what is the "trigger"? .... that should be decided before the election, but in general you could take a percentage of the registered voters i.e. less than 1% triggers an automatic runoff... again, this has to be done before the election, so im not talking about this senate race in particular­... just making an argument that this 48 vote differential should be avoided

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:21 PM on 12/23/2008
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I seriously doubt you would be saying this if Coleman was ahead by 48 votes. So, tell me what happened to one man one vote? In theory, someone could win by 1 vote. If that happens, then so be it. MN is following it's own laws concerning elections. If you don't like it, you can work the legislature to get it changed. Until then, you are stuck with living with the consequences.

This was a hand recount where every ballot is being considered. It has been monitored by people from Coleman's team and people from Franken's team. All disputes are being handled, even by going to court. I don't know what else you want, except for Coleman to win. Too bad so sad for you.

There is no reason why it should have gone into a run-off. It is not part of MN law and there is no reason for them to make new law just to coddle Coleman. Besides, do you have any idea how much a run-off election costs? You would rather see MN waste their money on a run-off than to use it where it can do some good for the citizens of the state?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:24 PM on 12/23/2008
- AliMB I'm a Fan of AliMB 72 fans permalink
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No, I would be saying this if Coleman was ahead by 48 votes... I don’t understand why people think that comment is disingenuous…. and no one is arguing that an Al Franken 48 vote win is illegal, illegitimate, or unfair... its a completely valid victory. my point is that in an election of this importance (a US senate seat, not a school board or county commissioner seat), which represents millions of constituents, the vote difference is too close to negate any possible fraud, missed ballots, voter machine glitches, accidents, bad weather, etc. this has nothing to do with the principal of 1-man-1-vote, its has to do with insuring that the result is an accurate reflection of the will of the people, and not the result of causal circumstances or casino-type luck. your point on the cost of a run-off is valid, but you can argue that the salience of the issue merits the cost (also, per capita an election in the US is much cheaper than in many developing countries, where an election is huge lump on the national budget).I hope every state would enact runoff election laws, I think it is conducive to better democracy. I understand that people have strong devotion to the Democrats here, but please attempt to view the issue from a non-partisan prism.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:25 PM on 12/23/2008
- ere I'm a Fan of ere 50 fans permalink

ok, i've had all the right wing talking points i can stand for the day

So, I'll just leave this last poke at the tr0lls:

SENATOR AL FRANKEN

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA

Happy holidays!

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'ere - Atlanta's Progressive Jazz
(yes that's me on the piano)
Find us at ReverbNation.com/ere
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    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:34 PM on 12/23/2008
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Sweeeeet!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:16 PM on 12/23/2008

When it comes to Franken and Coleman, I'd rather be supporting a comedian than supporting a joke!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 PM on 12/23/2008
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It is now about Principle (Principal??)! Get Franken to the Senate, enough of these GOP antics-Coleman is set for some long sorrows in court on OTHER dirty things he has done. Come on - give we the people a break!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:39 PM on 12/23/2008
- Oren nerO I'm a Fan of Oren nerO 2 fans permalink

gosh darn it, people like you Al.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:30 PM on 12/23/2008
- pgsteward I'm a Fan of pgsteward 5 fans permalink

Could someone please explain. I read that in one district, 100 missed votes were found and that ALL of them went to Franklin. Isn't that way above any logical statistical analysis? Or was that only a right-wing spin?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 PM on 12/23/2008
- Meggie I'm a Fan of Meggie 92 fans permalink
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Or, perhaps they were only "missing" to begin with because they were all Franken votes...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 PM on 12/23/2008
- pgsteward I'm a Fan of pgsteward 5 fans permalink

Then how did they go missing? Surely there is some sort of security as to where they are kept after they are counted. And were they counted originally and were they included in the original totals. Surely the finished results match the number of ballots issued.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 PM on 12/23/2008

reich-wing spin ..... it is all the bottom feeders have left

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 PM on 12/23/2008
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 643 fans permalink
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Maybe you could post a link to one of your right wing web sites for proof.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 PM on 12/23/2008
- pgsteward I'm a Fan of pgsteward 5 fans permalink

I do not look at right-wing sites. I believe I saw this one an American TV station. We get lots of them here in Canada, both Network and Cable stations. I regularly watch CNN (I've actually toured their facilities in Atlanta), NBC, CBS, ABC, and yes, even Fox. But I don't get MSNBC because I don't subscribe to that particular network. Where I saw it? I don't know. But that doesn't address the question originally posed. Did 100 votes turn up and were they all for Al FRANKEN (got it right this time)?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:43 PM on 12/23/2008
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Who is Franklin?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 PM on 12/23/2008
- pgsteward I'm a Fan of pgsteward 5 fans permalink

First, I am not American, I am Canadian. So I apologize for making that simple error. Got it, and I really know it. Al Franken.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:38 PM on 12/23/2008
- pgsteward I'm a Fan of pgsteward 5 fans permalink

I guess that you have never in your life made a spelling error or had a name wrong. It must be very reassuring to be perfect!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 12/23/2008
- prunebush I'm a Fan of prunebush 5 fans permalink

Duh! He's the black kid in the "Peanuts" gang.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:07 PM on 12/23/2008
- indypete I'm a Fan of indypete 148 fans permalink
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Pg.... The conseravtives in Canada may have some honour and decency (I don't know your politics well enough to say) but let me assure you that is not so here in the US. The right wing south of your border is rotten to the core. Franken has been an outspoken champion of honest democracy for many years.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 12/23/2008
- pgsteward I'm a Fan of pgsteward 5 fans permalink

I know many politicians in Canada, from various parties. To a person they are pretty decent individuals. I put on an event for my Lodge (a Rabbie Burns Supper), and this year we have as speakers people from both the Conservative Party and the NDP Party. Are Canadian politics full of honour and decency? I would not actually bet on it. But on the whole, our system is easily more honest and more regulated. I have worked on campaigns and have seen the process up close and personal and can say without equivocation, that cheating and vote rigging would be well nigh impossible. There are too many checks and balances throughout the process.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 PM on 12/23/2008
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 643 fans permalink
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If anyone is a little bored and wants to hear a classic xmas song...

http://whereikeepmystuff.com/oh.html

Enjoy !

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:25 PM on 12/23/2008
- Meggie I'm a Fan of Meggie 92 fans permalink
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Yikes!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:30 PM on 12/23/2008
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Not long after the Nov 4th election, i recall someone saying that the final vote tally would be 42 votes in Al Franken's favor. I have to look this person up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:20 PM on 12/23/2008

it was nate silver....­.and he said 27 votes.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:22 PM on 12/23/2008
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It's spooky how right he has been in his predictions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:35 PM on 12/23/2008
- CVN65 I'm a Fan of CVN65 25 fans permalink

It was me. I stated that they would keep finding/producing just enough votes to steal the election and give Al a double-digit victory. Dang, am I smart.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:39 PM on 12/23/2008
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Whoa there, Once again give us something that proves their is stealing going on here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:13 PM on 12/23/2008
- dawlishgal I'm a Fan of dawlishgal 219 fans permalink
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I believe you must have meant to say, "stealing back the election that had been stolen from "them."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:27 PM on 12/23/2008
- buckygreen I'm a Fan of buckygreen 80 fans permalink

Poor little i d i o t tr0//s. The promise of 8 long years of President Obama and a Democratic Congress is making them very whiny. Tragic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsU2ESJqW4A

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 PM on 12/23/2008
- gcw I'm a Fan of gcw permalink

Here's one thing that could make a big difference in future US elections -- Why not register everyone to vote when they are born or become a citizen? One big data bank like they do in Canda.

That way, all the problems at the polls over voter registration, provisional ballots due to questionable registration, messing with weeding out registrations, the silly ACORN issues and much more are instantly eliminated.

If someone never votes, that's OK. And, if someone else wants to join a party, give money to it, run under its umbrella, that's OK, too. Registering every citizen will take a big load off the election process without taking a thing from political parties.

Then, let's get cracking on a workable vote counting system with a paper trail. We can do this. I know we can.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:16 PM on 12/23/2008
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And allow us to vote at any location.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:24 PM on 12/23/2008
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Then how do you handle regional votes. In the USA we vote for state and local representatives.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:39 PM on 12/23/2008
- VPN I'm a Fan of VPN 110 fans permalink
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Not a good idea, too many petty little men with fantasies of being a dic-ta-tor like Booo$h to allow a Government to have THAT kind of data base.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:25 PM on 12/23/2008
- pgsteward I'm a Fan of pgsteward 5 fans permalink

It is not the government that keeps that database in Canada. It is an independent body named "Elections Canada". It works for a population of around 30+ million. Same principle, only ten times larger. And, if your name isn't on the register, you can still vote on election day with some form of proof.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:48 PM on 12/23/2008

what you've proposed is a logistical impossibil­ity.......­try again.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:26 PM on 12/23/2008
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Social Security seems to have the logistical problems licked. Try again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 PM on 12/23/2008
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Not so, other countries do it. We have the databases in place, Social Security and the IRS dbase for example.

The bigest issue with regestering every body is the RNC. Theuy know the more the amount of voters goes up the chance of them winning an election goes down.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:42 PM on 12/23/2008
- pgsteward I'm a Fan of pgsteward 5 fans permalink

Actually, in Canada when filing income tax returns you are registered to be placed on the voters rolls. Very simple. You don't pay taxes, you don't vote!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 PM on 12/23/2008
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Seems to me they tried that way back when this country was founded and it was found to unconstitutional.

There are a lot of people in this country who don't pay income taxes for a good reason.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:38 PM on 12/23/2008
- afgail I'm a Fan of afgail 63 fans permalink

Every citizen born or naturalized should be registered for life. Everyone else barred from voting. Voters be allowed to change their party affiliations at the polls a la New Hampshire to vote in primary elections. Also a paper trail for every vote cast. Outlaw any voting machine that the manufacturer will not let election officials or the public see and test the voting programs. No proprietary considerations. No private firms allowed to tabulate votes. Take back our Democracy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:40 PM on 12/23/2008
- dawlishgal I'm a Fan of dawlishgal 219 fans permalink
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Outlaw voting machines PERIOD! Give people a numbered split ballot that has a foldover carbon. Half will be left at the voting place to be counted, the other half will be given to the voter to prove he voted. (Kind of like those checkbooks that make automatic copies of checks written). I know this sounds primitive, but it is too easy to defraud any mechanical system. We might have to wait a while for the returns, but it ought to be easy enough to check the results in a recount...­.people who are worried about cheating having occurred , can come , check their ballot by the numbers, and see if their ballots are still there for a recount (or ever were there for more than the time it took to drop them) If enough of the verified ballots can't be produced, then there must be another election. Unless the missing votes are coming differentially from one candidate. In that case, give the election to the other candidate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:33 PM on 12/23/2008
- ere I'm a Fan of ere 50 fans permalink

Coleman tried to steal an election and failed

There may just be justice in this world after all

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'ere - Atlanta's Progressive Jazz
(yes that's me on the piano)
Find us at ReverbNation.com/ere
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    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 12/23/2008
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I don't agree with that any more than I agree with the right's claim that Franken is trying to steal the election. This has been the most watched recount in the history of this country. There is no room for stealing anything. Now, bringing up frivolous challenges is another story and Coleman has done plenty of that. But, I don't think any stealing is involved.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:40 PM on 12/23/2008
- CVN65 I'm a Fan of CVN65 25 fans permalink

Oh, yes, ere. With all of those Coleman votes found in Republicans cars after the election. Please!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:41 PM on 12/23/2008
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You are a hateful person.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:15 PM on 12/23/2008
- jazzman I'm a Fan of jazzman 236 fans permalink
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I believe that the events in between the election and now have made the tenure of the Republicans look more devastating. I have a funny feeling if they re-ran this election now, Coleman wouldn't even get close to winning. Let's just hope that the final verdict puts Franken in the Senate. It's time to totally rid ourselves of those who aided and abetted Bush and Cheney in all of their crimes and misdemeanors.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 12/23/2008
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 643 fans permalink
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He's dem enough, he's smart enough, and doggone it ...repubs hate him. That's good enough for me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:09 PM on 12/23/2008

"repubes"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 PM on 12/23/2008
- CVN65 I'm a Fan of CVN65 25 fans permalink

It's not that we hate him; we just recognize him for his inadequacy. He himself proclaimed that he is unfit for any elected office several years back. I believe now that the election has been stolen for him, he will prove himself right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 PM on 12/23/2008
- ere I'm a Fan of ere 50 fans permalink

sad little coward, the theft was averted, Coleman lost

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'ere - Atlanta's Progressive Jazz
(yes that's me on the piano)
Find us at ReverbNation.com/ere
----------­----------­----------­----------­-----

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 PM on 12/23/2008
- pinkyboo I'm a Fan of pinkyboo 21 fans permalink

ahh... Sour grapes make a bitter whine....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:23 PM on 12/23/2008
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If he said that several years ago, he was still in a capacity as a comedian. It was a joke.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 PM on 12/23/2008

inadequate enough NOT to be indicted like your pal, coleman...­...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 PM on 12/23/2008
- livesimply I'm a Fan of livesimply 27 fans permalink
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"Stolen?" Where do the any facts come even close to implying this? You are just a real sore loser. (I hope Coleman loses, that is.)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 PM on 12/23/2008
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