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I took the metro from end to end, and that is the last time I'll ride that over-glorified trolley car, even if gas is $10 a gallon. Round trip takes 3 hours not including the drive to the park-and-ride. It starts in the barrios of Mesa and ends at ChrisTown, a mall that was mostly out of business over 25 years ago. I could walk faster!
The metro, or light rail, or whatever you want to call it goes from nothing to nothing, and in between we get to see the worst blight Phoenix has to offer. I never knew there were so many seedy motels, bulldozed buildings, and foreclosed condos in Phoenix.
Out of the 30 stops (not including stops at red lights) there are about 4 that would be somewhere that sane humans would want to go to. Unfortunately everyone will soon learn that the metro is the last choice on how to get to one of these spots. In almost all cases you will have to catch a bus after you get off the rail in order to go someplace useful -- or take a taxi.
Unlike San Francisco our trolley car serves no useful purpose. Nobody will use it and it clogs our already congested roads. It's powered by electricity that is generated by coal or natural gas, so forget the green thing.
So, for $1.4 billion how many busses could we have bought that runs on green fuels like bio-diesel?
People moan about the cost of installing public transportation, but you don't see the property owners moaning about the cost when their property values skyrocket because they are next to the train station. Check out how Davis Square in Somerville, MA went from a dead backwater to a thriving center when the subway station showed up.
I live in Tempe about 2.5 miles south of a light rail station. I've been looking forward to this since I voted for it about 10 years ago. I generally ride my bike about 7 miles through Tempe and the train only replaces about 3 of those miles, but it will really help when the weather is unpleasant. I also plan to use it to get to downtown Phoenix with my family for trips to the science center and whatever else is down there(we're not sports fans). We've only gone a couple times in our car because parking is stressful when you don't know the area. I rode it briefly the first day, and I took it to and from work today; I love it. I tried the bus but I hated the herky jerky ride and short distance between stops. The development along the track in Tempe has been incredible: condo towers, office buildings, mixed use Transit-Oriented-Development galore! Extensions are already being planned, and if the starter line proves popular, I imagine their construction time line will be accelerated. This is a great day for the Valley of the Sun!
I live in a rural area in NC, some 60 miles west of Charlotte. If you don't have a car, you're walking. This would be good for those of us that don't have adequate transportation.
This would really be a boon to connecting the small cities and towns to the larger ones. Jobs would be created. Our job searches would be easier as well as our choices in education because we wouldn't have to settle for what is available. We could further research and look at campuses from
a hands on perspective. We could conduct our basic daily duties with ease. We need this bad.
i'm from Europe , its about time America, welcome to the 21st century.
The future is here. . . just in time. . .i hope!
I lived in Phoenix 30 years and moved away in 1998 to Portland, OR where they have one of the best transit systems in the country. We have more people using public transit than anywhere in the country I believe. You will soon be able to take the light rail (MAX) system to anywhere in the city and surrounding areas, because they are building on to it daily. My daughter doesn't want to drive so this is the perfect place for her to live and she can get anywhere she needs to go. As far as Phoenix is concerned - this should have been started 25 years ago, but they city wasn't smart enough to see into the future. I can't imagine how horrible it will be to wait for one of those trains in the heat though with your kids - I wouldn't wish that on anyone. When in the summer around all that metal and concrete the temperatures could reach 120+ degrees. Then to board one of those cars and the aroma will knock you on your behind.
Ther'll be a way to shade the stations, and maybe even A/C some-I think they do it in Las Vegas, and don't ferget those hot humid areas of the US that have a transit system-they find a way-Atlanta, Houston, Miami etc
Sucks about the air conditioning, but this is great for Phoenix. I live in Boston, and I've never owned a car thanks to mass transit.
I was thinking that the $1.4 billion sounds like a lot of money, until I remembered that L.A. built about 10 miles of light rail on and under Wilshire Blvd, at a cost of $1 billion per mile.
Just a reminder, Southern California used to have the largest (most miles) light rail system on the whole planet, with the largest ridership, until a consortium of Standard Oil, General Motors, Firestone, and a few others, bought it up. They ran it into the ground, and then shut it down, during the mid 20th century. They were taken to court, the case went all the way to the Supreme Court, and they were fined $5,000. I wonder how many inches of light rail line $5,000 would buy today.
They did the same thing in about 50 metropolitan areas across the country, in the interest of promoting the use of petroleum, cars, tires, and related products. Chicago and New York refused to sell to them, and today they still have mass transit. I wonder what the face of mass transit in this country would look like today if it were not for the likes of Standard Oil (Exxon, Chevron, et. al.) and General Motors.
PHoenix Area Rapid Transit?
Acronym alert.
Love it. I hope we go in the direction of Europe and much of Asia with increased public transportation. It is needed for energy independence and for easing of traffic throughout the country.
Italy just launched a 186 mph train from Rome to Milan. I'd like to see this type of development in the U.S. creating jobs and helping the environment.
http://www.enduringwanderlust.com/italy-launches-186-mph-rome-milan-train/
Yeah, but without Mussolini, who will make sure it runs on time?
The light rail opens on the same day that the City of Phoenix's City Council and Mayor unanimously voted to CUT services on the local bus lines at both ends of the day. The light rail is duplicative of existing bus lines and service and no one who is not currently riding the bus will now convert to bus riding. That's nonsense. This project was and is nothing more than a resume building endeavor of Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon (along with his remodel of the downtown Convention Center). Mayor Gordon got skunked, however, when Gov. Napolitano was selected as Secretary of Homeland Security. Republican Sec. of State, Jan Brewer, will assume the governorship on 1/20/09 and Mayor Gordon will not now "naturally" follow Gov. Napolitano even with his beefed up resume. Too bad, Gordy, you missed that boat. Beyond the waste of this duplicative service is the crime that the Transit-Dependent (people of color, disabled, elderly, etc.) who rely on the local bus lines as their only means of transportation have lost a great deal to this boondoggle. Phoenix also announced that on 12/29 it will also ADD three new express bus routes for Transit-Choice (White suburbanites) to use to travel in sleepy comfort to the downtown employment hub. This City is decidedly uncaring about those who are voiceless and disenfranchised. How can one reach any other conclusion based on their very transparent actions? I'll be voting them out next election. Count on it.
How can that be? Phil Gordon is a Democrat?
Thank you for the excellent perspectives.
~ Civil engineer, and fan of dedicated bus lanes vs. light (-en-the-taxpayers'-wallet) rail.
Trolley bus, I hope. Nothing seems to come close in efficiency and cost. Am I wrong about that?
:-)
Pretty much the same thing has been going on in Los Angeles. They forsook the buses (and bus riders) for Metrolink and Metro Rail.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1594/is_5_12/ai_77749302
The Phoenix trolley car does nothing more than replace the Redline bus route. Actually it's far worse since busses can easily go over the 25 mph max of the trolley.
So, we replaced a lousy bus for an even worse trolley car -- all for the cost of our state deficit. Phoenix is going to close 5 senior centers and fire more than a thousand city workers all because they spent money of a useless transportation system.
Yeah, mayor Phil Gordon is a Democrat. That figures!
Great because the ghetto of Detroit plans for a mass transit system in marred in polititics. And they can't even get the plans off the ground because of the corruption in Detroit...
Gee, it will only take 116 years to pay off the the hoped for ridership and that is if it works perfectly and has no employees and gets free electricity to run on.
While there are few transit systems anywhere that fully pay for themselves, I've never grasped why this charge is hurled at rail systems but not road systems. Unless they're toll roads, highway construction never pays for itself.
But more to the point, mass transit should be subsidized, because there are many side benefits that come with it that are very difficult to assign a number to. For example, the US loses literally billions of dollars each year to auto accidents, not only in the form of higher insurance premiums, but the fact that many victims are those in the prime of their earning years. There are far fewer passenger mile deaths involving mass transit than cars, thereby making it more economically benign, even with the subsidies.
Add to this the pollution, space and maintenance requirements of roads over rail, and you begin to see how mass transit investments can pay big economic dividends in the long run. The trick is to look at the world in terms of "cost internalization". If all of the associated costs associated with one person traveling one mile in a car versus a mass transit vehicle are added up, the mass transit option is invariably cheaper.
Peace,
Dutchman
My post was tongue-in-cheek. I live in Portland and love taking the MAX. It is quick to get you across town and then a bus to your destination. Governments need to understand that the benefits of mass transit come, not through fares, but through bringing in people from out lying areas without clogging up the roads in town. Buildings with people working in them brings in more property and other taxes are more profitable to the area than parking lots.
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First Posted: 12-27-08 08:46 PM | Updated: 04-17-09 05:28 PM