SLIDESHOW: Israel's Operation In Gaza (Caution: Graphic Content)

The Palestinian death toll has risen to nearly 600 as the Israel-Gaza conflict continues for the 11th day. Israeli Air Forces have been targeting Hamas from above, while ground forces are working their way into the area. With the Gaza operation, Israel says it aims to end Hamas rocket fire into southern regions of the country.

• • • • • • • • • A Palestinian youth stands next to a Palestinian flag and watches as others inspect the damage at a building following Israeli forces' operations in Rafah refugee camp, southern Gaza Strip. (AP)

Comments

[madworld]

cont... (previous comment)
It becomes apparent that the powerful - those who make the rules - insist on legality merely to preserve the power relations that serve them or to maintain their occupation and colonialism.
Colonial powers use their civilians strategically, settling them to claim land and dispossess the natives, be they indigenous populations in North America or Palestinians in what are today Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories.
Attacking civilians, then, becomes the last, most desperate and basic method of resistance in the face of overwhelming odds and imminent eradication.
The Palestinians do not attack Israeli civilians with the expectation that such violence will destroy or defeat Israel.
When the native population understands that there is an irreversible dynamic stripping them of their land and identity with the support of an overwhelming power then they are forced to resort to whatever methods of resistance they can muster.
credits: Nir Rosen
P.S. Michale, replies?

[madworld]

Michale, your definition of 'terrorism' merely proves that Israel as well falls into this category. Here is a better one:
Terrorism is a normative term which is used to describe what the 'other' does, not what 'we' do. Powerful nations such as Israel, the US, Russia or China will always describe their victims' struggle as terrorism. However, they fail to acknowledge as acts of terror the destruction of Chechnya, the slow slaughter of the remaining Palestinians, the repression of Tibetans, and the US occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Normative rules and what is legal and permissible are determined by the powerful. They formulate the concept of terrorism in normative terms and make it appear as if a neutral court derived such definitions instead of the oppressors. For the weak to resist becomes illegal by definition.
This excessive use of legal jargon actually undermines the fundamentals of what is truly legal and diminishes the credibility of international institutions such as the UN. The law becomes the enemy of those who struggle.

[MagisterLudi]

Time for Hamas to lay down their weapons, step from behind the hospitals and let secular Palestinians take over the governance.

[Michale32086]

@enry_straker

Actually, I define terrorism at least 10 times a day.. But, for you, I would be happy to do so again.. :D

"Terrorism is defined as ongoing and systematic attacks of violence specifically targeted against innocent civilian persons or property for the purpose of furthering a political, economical or ideological agenda."

This is a definition borne of nearly a quarter century in the field..

Michale....

[enry straker]

Root causes always matter...

Do we, as citizens of the world in the 21st century, wake up one day to find that the palestinians end up like the red indians of today?

Do we, as citizens of the world in the 21st century, continue to subsidize a country with military equipment and lots of money - and then find that they are more focused on killing and fightitng with their neighbors than with helping that region grow?

Do we, as citizens of the world, allow women, children and old people to die - and give them nice sounding stereotyped names like terrorists, hamas, hezbollah etc - and thereby not lose sleep over their death and destruction.

Do we, as citizens of the world, allow words written centuries ago by old men - to be used as the basis for creating countries or fighting over existing ones.

How can we allow human beings to be killed en masse without any checks and balances?

If tomorrow israel decides that america is a threat, will it try to take our country out - under the name of defense?

[enry straker]

@Michale32086

I think, in general, women are more patient and compassionate than men. I guess there are exceptions.

Michele, I believe human life is sacred. I don't believe anyone has the right to take that away.

Though i am neither of the christian faith nor of the jewish faith nor of the moslem faith, the words spoken by this former palestinian resident rings strongly with my conscience.

Thou shalt not kill any living thing,' for life is given to all by God, and that which God has given, let
not man taketh it away. ~Jesus

If you are a lady, your login name suggests that, you have been blessed with the power to create and nurture life. That is a gift we men dont have ( though we try to help out a bit in that regard :-)

Instead of nit-picking points, try to put yourselves in the shoes of an ordinary resident of gaza. What would it feel like if you are born into poverty and misery? What must it feel like to watch people you grew up with, die? What must it feel like when you are prevented from escaping that region? What must it feel like to scrounge for food to feed your children - all the while knowing that you can be killed from the skies above - and no one else will be there to take care of your children.

War is never the answer.

[Michale32086]

If you look at my profile, I am NOT the gorgeous blonde in the cammie shirt.. :D

I am completely agnostic..

War is sometimes the ONLY answer..

Or would you prefer to speak German (if on the East Coast) or Japanese (if on the West Coast)...

Michale.....

[Michale32086]

@enry_straker

}}}}}
Yeah, right.

It's almost like a rapist saying - the lady was dressed in short-skirts - and if i raped her, it was her fault.

By refusing to look at reality. By blind support. You are doing more to undermine the people of israel. I guess you don't realize that.
{{{{{{

Terrorist organizations that hide behind civilians bear the primary responsibility for civilian casualties.

"Should civilian casualties ensue from an attempt to shield combatants or a military objective, the ultimate responsibility lies with the belligerent placing innocent civilians at risk."
Dinstein,'Conduct of Hostilities under the Law of International Armed Conflict'

In the immortal words of Joe Bob Briggs, "I'm surprised I have to explain this stuff."

Michale.....

[enry straker]

Awww Geee..

Thanks for your kindness in explaining this stuff?

Let's take your logic for a ride, shall we...

1) First call people names. ( Call every dead palelstinian a terrorist - hey, why stop there. Call every muslim in that region a terrorist - and then, blam, kill them - problem solved )

2) Don't define terrorism - question every one who does. Nit-pick the hell out of thtem.

Way to go, young lady..

I guess i wouldn't be surprised if i end up being called a terrorist - since there seems to be no burden of proof required. Just Michele's opinion.

[Michale32086]

@enry_straker

}}}}}
Any act of violence which causes death and destructiton and causes the rest to fear for their safety and security is 'AN ACT OF TERRORISM'.
{{{{{

By your definition, every war ever fought was "AN ACT OF TERRORISM"... Taking down the Nazis by your definition was "AN ACT OF TERRORISM"...

Why stop there..

Whenever LA SWAT raids a drug house, that is also considered "AN ACT OF TERRORISM"....

At least, by YOUR definition...

You may want to rethink that definition, because it is ludicrous and has nothing to do with reality..

}}}}}
Currently, the israeli defense forces, the most powerful in the region, is the single largest terrorist group. This is directly cheered on by the people of israel.
}}}}

In your opinion, completely unsubstantiated by the facts or reality...

}}}}
Simply calling a bunch of people who try to resist a terrorist is not good enough. Any group of people in the world will try to retaliate - even when their cause is hopeless - if they are killed without mercy or justice by forces more powerful than them.
}}}}

Nothing justifies terroism..

NOTHING....

Michale.....

[enry straker]

Wow.

You tried nit-picking for quite some time. Now this...

I guess your final argument is

Any one who dares differ from me is a terrorist.

I guess that would make me and the whole world a bunch of terrorists

Problem solved. Right?

[enry straker]

I also see that

1) You have not defined terrorism.

2) You challenge others to define terrorism.

3) You then try to pick holes in their definition - and put words in their mouth.

4) You end up with empty words like 'Nothing justifies terrorism'

Do you simply feel that any and all palestinian act constitutes terrorism? Any and all israeli acts constitute defense?

By so blatently and illogically supporting israel, you show the world - just like bush does - it would end up doing more harm in the long run to the people of israel.

Israel has, among its citizens, many remarkable people who have contributed so much to the world in areas like science, arts, sports and so on.

But by using overwhelming force, they are teaching palestitnians that we will control you and kill you for any and all reasons. This would give many palestinian children an incentive to cook up their own weapons of mass destruction - and turn it on israel in the future.

[shupikai400]

When will we start calling a spade a spade.... aren't we past the era of saying nothing whilst 'bad things' happen? I'm so disappointed by the leaders of the free world. How long before truth trumps 'diplomacy'? Very disappointing indeed.

[The Hedonistic Pleasureseeker]

Well, the deputy defense minister Matan Vilnai threatened a "holocaust" on Gaza, and it looks as though Israel is using phosphorus bombs in densely populated areas. Since holocaust means death by conflagration, fire, buring, etc., if the bombing goes on too much longer people might start calling it the "real" holocaust. Wouldn't that be interesting, Israel?

[Michale32086]

Phosphorus is perfectly permissible when used as an illumination device or to provide tactical cover...

These are the facts...

Michale.....

[madworld]

Yes, absolutely true, but you didn't understand the question. The question is:

Is it being used only as an illumination device or to provide cover?

[The Hedonistic Pleasureseeker]

. . . and is completely unnecessary against an "enemy" that HAS NO ARMY.

[MsDoc]

The time for comments is AFTER news media is permitted into Gaza. Until then, evrything is propaganda.

[madworld]

Trust me, there is more media in Gaza then you can imagine... it's just not ''trusted''.
Plus if media in gaza was in favour of israel it would have been there.

[Michale32086]

@CarmenCameron

}}}}
ALL of Gaza is a "residential area". With fully a third of the entire Palestinian nation crammed into its tiny borders, it is among the most densely populated areas in the world!
{{{{{

Wrong on several counts.

It's the 6th most densely populated area in the world..

http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=31.573526,34.517326&spn=0.020585,0.04549&t=h&z=15

This depicts the north central Gaza/Israel border.

Take a look around. As you can clearly see, there are wide open areas that would actually INCREASE the range of Hamas missiles.

Get that?? If Hamas actually placed their launchers AWAY from crowded civilian areas, their missiles WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE!!!

{{{{{
You seem to think those who fight back against Israel's aggression had a choice of prime open fields to chose from, sarale, in effect proving beyond the shadow of a doubt just how truly, DEEPLY badly informed on this situation you actually are.
{{{{

Actually, if you look at that GOOGLE MAP link I just posted, you will see that it is you who is truly, DEEPLY badly informed.

Michale.....

[SERGIOUK]

READ

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine

What you are saying doesnt hold uo to the facts and this article was written by
Oxford professor of international relations Avi Shlaim served in the Israeli army and has never questioned the state's legitimacy

[Michale32086]

Actually you are wrong.. The author is well known for questioning Israel's actions...

"Shlaim is considered a key member of a group of Israeli scholars known as the New Historians[citation needed] who put forward critical interpretations of the history of Zionism and Israel. Shlaim claims to have served in the IDF."

Hardly an unbiased source.... And his claims of serving in the IDF were never substantiated..

Why don't you just have HAMAS leaders write it up???

Michale.....

[Michale32086]

Regardless of that, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that Gaza has a LOT of open space that HAMAS could fire their missiles from.

So, why does Hamas place their launches inside crowded civilian areas??

Can you answer that??

No???

Didn't think so...

Michale.....

[Michale32086]

@JeffW

}}}}}
Michale, it seems to me that they're both committing terrorism.
{{{{{

Could you please specify which acts that Israel has committed that you consider terrorism.

And, it would also help if I knew what your definition of terrorism was.

Thanx

Michale.....

[enry straker]

Any act of violence which causes death and destructiton and causes the rest to fear for their safety and security is 'AN ACT OF TERRORISM'.

Currently, the israeli defense forces, the most powerful in the region, is the single largest terrorist group. This is directly cheered on by the people of israel.

Simply calling a bunch of people who try to resist a terrorist is not good enough. Any group of people in the world will try to retaliate - even when their cause is hopeless - if they are killed without mercy or justice by forces more powerful than them.

[SERGIOUK]

DEATH TOLL 680 dead 3,075 injured and rising......

[Michale32086]

And all that blood is on HAMAS hands...

Michale.....

[skippypicasso]

Amen.

[madworld]

Everyone likes to relates to the 'recent' developments in Gaza crisis and very few look at the big picture. I urge you to read this article. I am not asking you to believe it, it's just an opinion, but please read it till its end..

http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2008/12/20081230122143645275.html

[enry straker]

Yeah, right.

It's almost like a rapist saying - the lady was dressed in short-skirts - and if i raped her, it was her fault.

By refusing to look at reality. By blind support. You are doing more to undermine the people of israel. I guess you don't realize that.

[Michale32086]

@MaximMaximus

}}}}
What are you defending? The annihilation of Palestinians,
{{{{{

No, I am defending the annihilation of HAMAS..

It is YOU who are defending the annihilation of Palestinians BY HAMAS....

@DC

}}}}}
When you need to cite obscure legalism to justify inhumanity, you have no humanity.
{{{{{

WOW..

Ya'all don't think it's "obscure legalism" when you use the International Criminal Court to go after the Bush administration, do you???

}}}}}}
What objective will the attack on Gaza achieve?
{{{{{{

Hopefully, the elimination of HAMAS.. Something that ANYONE who truly cares about the Palestinians should support..

Michale.....

[enry straker]

Simply calling every dead palestinian a terrorist or hamas is a funny way to justify genocide.

I used to wonder - how can german citizens in the 1940's support genocide of an entire race. They had education. They had culture. They had a shared sense of history. And yet they perpetrated one of the worst crimes of the last century.

The world seems to have come full circle.

Hear i see an educated young lady - defending death and destruction on an unimaginable scale being meted out to a group of people - for frivolous reasons - and justifying it by using a few propaganda words like hamas.

Incidentally, i used to hear the same kinds of propaganda put out by israeli politicians during the 80's - of course then it was yassar arafat and PLO who were the terrorists. In the 90's it was Fatah who were the terrorists - and now its hamas who are the terrorists.

The irony was - previous israeli governments had actively cultivated hamas as a group - and providing money and support to them when they were calling fatah a terrorist group.

[madworld]

Objectives of attack on gaza (don't forget the two years siege):
Outspoken:
1) Kill as many Hamas militants as possible.
Status: Partly successful.
2) Stop rockets from being fired at southern Israel.
Status: Total failure.

Real Objective (just my personal opinion).
Destroy the infrastructure of Gaza and turn it into a primitive population fighting for survival, giving them something else to worry about and forget their 'promised' rights as refugees from what is known today as southern Israel.

P.S. before writing your reply to this ask yourself:
Assume Israel's goal was to stop the rockets and destroy the extremists hamas. Doesn't doing it this way (assume also task completed successfully) leaves behind a hurt and damaged generation holding much more hatred to Israel, and very possibly reforming other ''terrorist" organizations much more extreme than Hamas? I'm sure Israel has thought of this?