Black Support For Prop. 8 Called Exaggeration

San Fransico Chronicle:

Reports of overwhelming African American support for Proposition 8's ban on same-sex marriage were exaggerated in exit polls, a new look at the November election results has found.

"Party identification, age, religiosity and political view had much bigger effects than race, gender or having gay and lesbian family and friends," said Patrick Egan of New York University, who wrote the report with Kenneth Sherrill of Hunter College of New York for the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.

Read the whole story: San Fransico Chronicle

Comments

[diogenes1967]

Man, I'll check yall later, I gotta go see what new evil my governor, blago, cooked up today!

[tr24]

Your rant is simply laughable. You are now comparing the right to same-s e x marriage to the handicapped! You guys need a leader.

[NoWoodZone]

No, I was simply stating we shouldn't need to appease people like you!

[StillIRise]

True!!!

[NoWoodZone]

I don't remember the handicapped crowd having to launch a nationwide campaign to win over people for their right to equality. The arguement that the LGBT community should have to win over or kiss the @sses of 80% of conservatives/republicans who voted in favor of prop 8 is laughable. Do you remotely think they would even listen? We were naive to believe that the AA & older voters would research the yes8 propaganda & see that it was filled with lies. This is not a beauty pagent to win civil rights people. Because your religious beliefs give you discomfort with LGBT having civil rights, you are stuck in the dark ages.

[tr24]

Your rant is simply laughable. You are now comparing the right to same-sex marriage to the handicapped! You guys need a leader.

[NoWoodZone]

Is your other name carsntrucks?

[tr24]

Your rant is simply laughable. You are now comparing the right to same-s e x marriage to the handicapped! You guys need a leader.

[NoWoodZone]

Is the enter key stuck on your keyboard or did it melt from your anger?

[tr24]

Where was all the gay anger over the past 8 years. GWB, gave gays a swift kick in the arse and they said and did NOTHING. Now, we have a prez-elect (not even sworn into office) and every gay has a complaint about something, whether it's him, other blacks, or the world in general. They are angry and are not going to take it anymore.

[AnotherTry]

Maybe because we saw the progress being made in the courts and hoped Obama would build on that momentum. Not trash it.

[politicalgenius]

how did he trash it? Please explain...

[diogenes1967]

well, gay people did not put money behind GWB either. Obama's money spigot got rolling with the words of a gay man who dissed Hillary Clinton in the process. And no, we're not going to take it anymore.

[tr24]

The irony is you may just have to continue to take it. If this board is any indication of your movement as a whole, you probably aren't winning over many hearts and minds.

[lynnn]

Uhm you should just take it to the courts, the Supreme Court.

[Jezreel]

"Obama's money spigot got rolling with the words of a gay man who dissed Hillary Clinton in the process. And no, we're not going to take it anymore."

Are you crazy? If Mr. Obama had to depend soley on the financial support of gays to win the election, he'd be moving to the poor house instead of the White House. Gays were supporting HRC, or Kucinich, or Nader, of C. McKinsey, anyone other than Obama. They didn't support PEO until after the primaries.

In the meantime, AA's, progressive whites, some moderate republicans, Chrisitan Progressives and many, many young people were sending money to the Obama campaign throughout the primary election.

[NoWoodZone]

We knew GWB was a lost cause. Why waste money trying to convince that regime.

[StillIRise]

"Why waste money trying to convince that regime."

This is part of the LGBT community's problem. Reaching out to staunch opponents is essential to your effort to change the consciousness of those who do not support your cause. If you can change just one mind, then it's money well spent. Talking only to people who already support you does nothing to change the dynamics of your struggle, and does nothing to promote the kind of support you need to make the legislation you want a reality. If nothing else, such an effort can create a platform for meaningful dialogue, and that in itself is worth whatever monies are spent.

[luvangelHussein330]

"Why waste money?"
Ummm get a clue, had there been more fight over the past eight years you might have had a fighting chance this past Nov 4th. The biggiest problem with this whole thing was complacency and over expectation from people who weren't even reached out to for dialog.

[politicalgenius]

It's opportunistic anger. The assumption was that with the most liberal Dem as POTUS that the cause is all but won. But because they saw imminent victory - a la HRC - they had no plan or organization in California. And when defeat came the Black Community is to blame. The problem was not Black People, the problem is organization. People have been hear trying to pick fights without taking the time to read what others have to say.

If marrying the person you love is the goal then you can't sit on the sidelines and wait for the LGBT's Martin Luther King, Jr to show up and then jump onboard. I speak for myself, I'm not asking for anyone to appease me and then I'll see. I'm not going to support gay marriage, however, I can offer suggestions on how to achieve what you want. First Suggestion - stop blaming Black People. Second suggestion - get organized to fight the Rethugs just like they did to you. Third Suggestion - stop assuming that every straight person is trying to pick fights with you.

[iwantpie]

"I'm not going to support gay marriage, however, I can offer suggestions on how to achieve what you want. First Suggestion - stop blaming Black People."

Agreed 100%.

[AnotherTry]

Go ahead take little blame. There is more than enough to go around!

A lot of white people accepted responsiblility and blame for the treatment of blacks. And they worked to make a change within their families and their communities, to make things right. Not all of them but a lot of them.

Are you denying that homophobia exsist in your community? Or are you just unsure that you could even combat it if you wanted?

[AnotherTry]

They way you talk about MLK and civil rights, one might get the impression you were there. Were you?

[oafishcad]

No one is blaming black people. no one. Gays are saying blacks, who should know better, have a majority that will deny civil rights to others. It's called hypocrisy, among other things. And where does anyone get the idea that they have the right to deny gays the right to marry anyway? That isn't your choice or your right. If you don't support gay marriage, then don't marry someone of the same sex. Otherwise it's none of your business. Got it?

[iwantpie]

Agreed. My impression is they (lbgt) community thinks because PE Obama is a minority they can control him, but are now finding out they are wrong.

[oafishcad]

No, they thought he was on their side. They were wrong. He's as much a friend to gays as Clinton was. So far.

[Cesaria]

Seems to me the damage has been done and wounds opened on both sides. Too little too late for this report.

[globality]

Of course the fact that Obama's VP in a nationally televised debate said the Obama administration was against gay marriage is not even mentioned.

They are trying to portray Obama as against prop 8 which is a lie

[diogenes1967]

Yeah, BO talked out of both sides of his mouth on gay marriage generally and Prop 8 specifically, though Clinton did the same thing with gay issues. I say we should hold his feet to the fire.

[StillIRise]

Either you're with us or you're against us, right? The Bush mantra. No nuances, no gray areas ... no critical thinking!

Obama is a man of faith. Though the church he was castigated for attending for 20 years welcomes gays in its worship and membership and supports gay marriage as well, PE Obama's personal convictions - which we all have - rejects gay marriage, but supports the civil unions of gays and all rights thereof. However, PE Obama also recognizes that gay marriage is a constitutional state issue, and he has never suggested or indicated that he would impose his personal convictions on the rights of any state to decide for or against the marriage of gays. His position on gay marriage, which he has repeated on numerous occasions, is very clear to me and is not in any way ambiguous.

Your "with us or against us" attitude, if representative of the larger LGBT community, will be your stumbling block in trying to persuade others to support your point of view. There are many people, like PE Obama who may not personally agree with gay marriage, but who would not stand in the way of any legislation that would permit gay marriage. But you've already kicked them to the curb along with everyone else who disagrees with you on this particular issue.

[lynnn]

Okay what is the diff. between gay marriage and civil unions? What is the legal diff @ the end of the day? Nothing. Call it gay marriage and a majority of ppl go running for the hills, call it civil unions and it becomes a lot closer. Of course I think straight ppl should be allowed to get civil unions, and "marriage" should just be a church ceremony (if one chooses).

[AnotherTry]

So the buck doesn't stop with Obama? Good to know.

So who is REALLY in charge? Joe Biden? Is he the new Cheney? The president is just his puppet?

[tel8034]

In the heat of anger, AAs in California were unfairly blamed for the passage of prop 8.

The opponents forgot that it was the Republican base which had Prop 8 put on the ballot in the first place.

They forgot that there were other communities (like the Hispanics) who because of their "religious culture" were also hesitant about same-sex marriage and their vote reflected their opinion.

The AA community unfortunately became the "scapegoat", and the anger brought about by the passage of prop 8 was directed at them........................... They were even chastised for voting for Obama and not voting for prop 8, and even their civil rights commitment was questioned.

All of this anger should be levied against the persons who actually put forward prop 8 in the first place, and not on the AAs.

In addition some of the blame should be place on the fact that the opponents to prop 8 did not do a great job in getting their message out ............................. Obviously in the beginning they thought that the defeat of prop 8 was in the bag and they were too late in starting their ground game .

To even have put the blame on the AA community in the first place was unwarranted.

[politicalgenius]

THANK YOU!!! This is exactly what I've been saying. But instead of people taking the time to read thoughtful posts they try to start religion arguments. My family members in California told me that the people pushing prop 8 were ORGANIZED. They didn't think for one minute that just because someone voted for Obama that they would not vote for Prop 8. Those same family members said they didn't speak to a single person from the LGBT community.

Don't blame Blacks for you not being organized, it's simple.

[AnotherTry]

Do you always have to be told what is right? Do you have to see people crying and begging you? Sometimes isn't it just obvious what the right thing is?

What is so hard to understand?

[oafishcad]

Oh, I'm sure they did speak to members of the gay community. They just didn't know it.

[iwantpie]

co-signing.

[oafishcad]

So you're saying gays are responsible for anti gay bias in the black community? Where blacks responsible for racism? Not one gay person I've ever heard has blamed the AA community for the passage of prop 8. None. The gay community will not however give the black community a pass for their vote. Take responsibility yourselves for your bias. Take responsibility for your religious intolerance and quite frankly, racism. I've read many posts from AA posters who've said it was a white issue and were not concerned with the rights of whites. Ignoring members of your own community you've decided to deny. Gays aren't giving other communities a pass either. It just seems that the black community is unwilling to face its own prejudice. Something Republicans and Mormons are willing to do.

[Jezreel]

Historical revision really comes in handy when it helps to push forward an agenda.

[DebofMD]

Agree 1000%.

[cafelatte11]

People's values are not based on their skin color but their life experience.

That's just ridiculous that it is somehow a revelation that such things as religion, age, and political views shaped their vote. Duh!!!!

It's a myth that blacks all think the same way because we are black. G@d is against g@y marriage, therefore so am I. Period.

[AnotherTry]

Your God is yours, not mine.

[cafelatte11]

G@d created you and gave you free will to make your choice for Him or against Him.

[StillIRise]

When did your God tell you that he/she is against gay marriage? As an African American and a Christian, I can recall countless priests and Protestant ministers telling me that the gay lifestyle is a sin, and numerous other Christians who have repeated the same talking point, all of whom claim to speak for God - as you have done. But when I listen to the voice within my own spirit and the voice that speaks to my own heart, I know that the only thing my God is against is the absence of love. I also know that many -if not most- of those who claim to speak for God are merely projecting their own fears and prejudices and ignorance and shaping them into God's words. And I know that those who point to scripture to support their prejudices are always careful to leave out the context in which the scripture was written and the other "abominations" that the scripture includes, such as eating a grape that was dropped on the ground or wearing clothing of mixed fabrics, etc.

No, all blacks do not think the same. Neither do all Christians think the same. We're all human, and it's our shared humanity that makes us all ONE in the eyes of my God.

[tr24]

It's not just Christians that are opposed to homosexuality. All the worlds major religions happen to oppose it. And many people who are areligious also condemn the actions. I know religiosity is not encouraged here, but world-wide homosexuality is frowned upon. So it's not just the Christians that happen to disagree.

[FanofPaine]

Christian. Black. Supporter of Gay Marriage.

[luvangelHussein330]

Ditto... and there are many many more just like us who regardless to that have been brow beat...I'm so done.

[iwantpie]

That good for you, but I myself don't support gay marriage and therefore will not be going to H3ll for anyone.

[iwantpie]

"G@d is against g@y marriage, therefore so am I. Period."

Agreed and thank you for stating the obvious.

[diogenes1967]

Have you been sitting on God's lap?

[politicalgenius]

I said once before that there's no way that we Blacks tipped the scale for Prop 8. What's most disheartening is that a few days after the election, many people that I encountered wanted to equate Prop 8 with the Civil Rights movement and it's just not the same. Equality is one thing, but Black people had been struggling for years to be treated like citizens in a country built off their labor.

[AnotherTry]

Equality is the ONLY thing. Thank you very much.

[diogenes1967]

Now that's where I am with it. Especially since the Bible is being used to justify someone not having equal rights.

[politicalgenius]

No, you're talking marriage equality. I'm talking about HUMAN EQUALITY. Nobody ever said that gays were 3/5 human.

[tr24]

Cha-ching! You are 100% correct. The gays would rather focus all of their anger towards blacks which make up a "staggering" 13% of the population. Wonder how members in the other 87% voted?

[lynnn]

Not all gays, unfortunately just some of the loudest voices.

[Eyewideopen]

I'll never forget that.

[iwantpie]

co-sign. They also kill any chance they might gain within the black community who despite not support gay marriage but still believe in right for all. Therefore, their fight for gay marriage will be a long one.

[dct1999]

And we're less than 13% of California's registered voters.

[luvangelHussein330]

Add to that the fact that many people deem same sex marrage as a moral issue and not a civil one. And the GLBT community didn't do a good job making that case by only preaching to the choir. Minorty members of the GLBT community long since told leaders that they needed to do more outreach to communities of color and just more out reach in general....the leaders didn't listen and the right dominated the message...and won

[oafishcad]

In 1967 the Supreme Court said marriage is a civil right. It is a civil rights issue. No one said blacks tipped the scale. they just said with their votes the majority of blacks joined the oppressor in denying civil rights, yes civil rights. And they have.

[Deparis]

The LGBT community showed their own bigotry and contempt toward the AA community by accusing them unfairly throughout these past few weeks since election night. I will not be surprised next time another Prop 8 like measure is on the ballot in a State to see an even bigger support of the AA community to ban gay marriage as payback.

[lynnn]

And that would be sad. PPl like AIP really don't help the cause at all. They only make it worse and they don't care. But again RIGHTS SHOULD NOT BE VOTED ON.

[tr24]

You are correct lynn AIP is an agitator, and not a good one at that. He/she is using their energies in a counterproductive fashion, and adds zero value to the greater cause.

[politicalgenius]

Just like you said, there are people who don't help their own cause. Trying to guilt people into supporting you by trying to compare Prop 8 to the Black Struggle, namely the Civil Rights Movement doesn't help. If you want help, take a page from the Civil Rights Movement, Dr. King was the leader for Civil Rights not because he was a Morehouse Grad or even a preacher, but he was the leader the people needed because he could communicate and be strong without being an @$$hole.

[iwantpie]

co-signing.

[oafishcad]

Name one gay person who blamed blacks for its passage. Gays however are not going to give the prejudice of the black community a pass. They joined the oppressor, pure and simple.

[politicalgenius]

who joined the oppressor? Blacks make up 7% of the voting population in California. Talk facts not lunacy.

[huffyISaHottie]

ok....now who do they blame?

[tr24]

Themselves...would be a great start

[AnotherTry]

Yes, let's blame the oppressed for their oppression. That makes a lot of sense.

[lynnn]

Leadership. I watched Milk and I was amazed that the HRC made the same mistake that Milk was complaining about. Many in the AA community (believe it or not) have a few gay friends (usually the chior director) but they still see gay ppl as the wealthy others (most white males). I think ppl need to do a better job of showing LBGT ppl of diff. backgrounds and socio economic levels. Once it is about the person you know it becomes a lot harder to take away some one's rights.

[politicalgenius]

that won't happen. it's just easier for those who assumed that Blacks would say No On 8 to blame religion.

[PoliticalAmazon]

Would you say this to African-Americans if War ren and his ilk had successfully taken away their rights? Would you imply that it is the A-A's fault?

[diogenes1967]

Funny, I have seen some black folks on here say something like that. Harry Reid is a Mormon, remember. Mormons don't like blacks.

[tr24]

Black=/ Gay or in other worlds ethnicity does not equal sexual preference. Try again.

[AlP]

Gays and lesbians have no protection in the United States. They can still get fired from their jobs for being gay and it's legal. Gays and lesbians were still being jailed for being gay pre-2003. The LGBT community was the FIRST and ALWAYS discriminated minority in the world. Enough is enough. It's the 21st century, and people need to stop the bs. Why America has not learned its lesson that minorities always end up getting their civil rights in the end, and America gets another stain on its history, is beyond me. Haven't we seen this play out before? We know how this story ends, and what America ends up looking like.

There are still people in positions of power in this country that would have no problem with putting gays in the gas chambers again.

[jdmba]

Exactly.

The article does not argue that LGBTs don't suffer discrimination. It only clarifies that it is NOT BLACK PEOPLE'S FAULT about that oppression.

[jcwtts1]

"The study debunks the myth that African Americans overwhelmingly and disproportionately supported Proposition 8," Andrea Shorter, director of And Marriage for All, said in a statement. "But we clearly have work to do with, within and for African American communities, particularly the black church."

Finally a rational conversation, one that didn't involve someone saying all Christians are a h oles, or talking about wearing sheets to the inauguration. The way you win an argument is name calling it is persuading people that you are right, or if not right then in the right.

[lennix]

all blacks should tell cnn,fox,msnbc and the msm and news papers to put the truth out there and stop playing us as the scrap goats they allways have and gays was so quick to blame us with out the real turth should had took time to find out the facts how in the hell did blacks get all this power all at once please this is the same bs the media and the powerful been doing for years put the blame somewere else when they are the blame all the time and we keep going for it to much info out there to keep being fool by these lies

[diogenes1967]

Actually, according to this report, there was an across the board decline in all racial groups from the vote on Proposition 22. 5 % fewer blacks voted for Proposition 8 than Prop 22. But there was a slight increase in the number of Republicans that voted for Prop 8 (81%) to Prop 22 (80%)

[lynnn]

And lots of ppl didn't vote. I've always found that some of the most progressive ppl I know (gay or straight) just don't vote.

[diogenes1967]

Yes, turnout in some largely populated areas of California was around 50%. There was some complacency abt. it too.

[robXdion]

Only 18 comments and HP is trying to push this article down the page and bury it. Typical.

[tr24]

It doesn't matter. Many of the gays here already have their minds made up.

[AlP]

With facts supporting it.