Black Support For Prop. 8 Called Exaggeration

San Fransico Chronicle:

Reports of overwhelming African American support for Proposition 8's ban on same-sex marriage were exaggerated in exit polls, a new look at the November election results has found.

"Party identification, age, religiosity and political view had much bigger effects than race, gender or having gay and lesbian family and friends," said Patrick Egan of New York University, who wrote the report with Kenneth Sherrill of Hunter College of New York for the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.

Read the whole story: San Fransico Chronicle

Comments

[QuestionEveryone]

Self-Serving article..the majority of blacks do not support gay marriage. period.

[lynnn]

Wow you know the majority of blacks of all ages? Wow you are great!

[AlP]

lynnn, there is a such thing as polls and sociology.

[tr24]

You are correct, and most blacks don't support gay marriage. However, you fail to mention that most whites, asians, latinos, etc. don't support gay marriage either! Stop letting blacks be your scapegoat.

[lynnn]

But it is so much more fun that way!

[loria]

That is the reality. If gay marriage were put to a vote in every state in the country, the result would be that a majority of the states would vote against gay marriage, just as CA did. That is the way it is right now in this country. But, the reality is we shouldn't be putting it to a vote. The majority shouldn't pass laws to curtail the rights of the minority.

Lets quit voting on this and let the Courts in the various states decide. Let's quit blaming one race or another because when if you asked most people in the country about gay marriage they would say they oppose it without thinking twice. It is a knee jerk reaction make because religion does have a stronghold in this country and most denominations still oppose it. Progress is being made, but to think that voters of any race are gong to vote to approve gay marriage at this point is just crazy. It is a decision of the Courts since it addresses the Constitutional Rights of a group of people.

[iwantpie]

co-signing.

[StillIRise]

Who is the article "self-serving?"

Rightly or wrongly, the majority of CHRISTIANS do not support gay marriage ... PERIOD. The Christian tradition is deeply embedded in the black community, as it is in other communities as well. As is suggested in the article, rather than picking and choosing which Christian demographic you want to scapegoat for the fundamental belief of most if not all Christians, the LBGT community needs to engage with Christians and other religious organizations to educate and inform and seek to change their consciousness toward the causes of gays - as opposed to simply demonizing and ostracizing them because they don't agree with you.

The article is serving to dispel some untruths and to provide facts in the context of a reality that you apparently are unwilling to accept.

[loria]

Excellent post.

[lynnn]

Very true.

[diogenes1967]

But your Christianity is your business, it should not be my business.

And there are a lot of LBGT that engage with the faith community. You just wouldn't know that from what I have read of the No On 8 campaign.

[politicalgenius]

AMEN

[Eyewideopen]

You better hope the courts declare the proposition unconstitutional. Btw, a number of states passed anti-gay marriage laws. It seems to me the MAJORITY OF AMERICANS don't support gay marriage. period.

[AnotherTry]

Lucky for us our constitution doesn't depend on majority votes to guarantee equality. Have you read it?

[luvangelHussein330]

I think you would rather be mad at something and what the media presented to you seemed tangable and easy to hang on and blame rather then looking at yourself or your community's lack of ability to control and dominate the message.

[Biracial1]

I'm waiting for my apology for prop 8, the mortgage mess and for many the election of Obama.

[lynnn]

Yea I don't think we'll get that apology.

[AlP]

I'm waiting for Obama to get some balls, and stop supporting bigots on his own time.

[lynnn]

You first!

[tr24]

Where were you the past 8 years when Bush gave less than a flying f*** about you or your cause?

[iwantpie]

I thought one would need some balls to run for president, especially being a minority in this country. What was that Uppity, Elitist, You're not one of us, Terrorist, Kill him. What I'm I missing here?

[banja]

I knew it was a nasty smear against black folk.

[lynnn]

Probably perpetrated by the Log Cabin Republicans. One of the things that binds the Log Cabin types to the Republican party is their hatred of minorities.

[Eyewideopen]

and Judy Weider of the Advocate, Rachel Maddow, and Keith Olbermann.

[iwantpie]

Thank you for this information, because I was wonder who was these 36% of LGBT that voted for McCain/Palin. And why PE Obama received 10%+ less votes with the LGBT community that any other Democratic President.

[WilliamL]

This comes as a big surprise to anyone?

For whateve the reasons, there is no excuse what so ever for the AA community failing to support the human rights of another miniority group.

The lack of support is not surprissing but it is pathetic.

Their seems to a be a lack of understanding and recognition that the AA community did not elect BO by themselves, the American people elected him, including the gay community which seem to not deserve the support of the AA community.

[diogenes1967]

Make your case to the AA community, if you have one, don't black people how to vote and then do (as Dan Savage and Andrew Sullivan did) call them dumb and stupid for not doing so. It's not like No On 8 didn't know this about the blk. community.

[lynnn]

Exactly,

[StillIRise]

Where is the evidence that the African American community, or anyone else, doesn't understand and recognize that the African American community did not elect PE Obama by themselves? Immediately following the election, specifically on this blogsite, African American and other posters were sharing in the celebration of PE Obama's victory, acknowledging in virtually every comment posted that his victory was won by ALL of us and acknowledging as well that PE Obama would not have won without the overwhelming support of the white community. As an African American myself, who has engaged in numerous discussions with other blacks about the election, I know of no African American who believes that we alone made Obama's election possible.

In spite of our past history and the present reality of discrimination and our struggle for equal rights, African Americans - like every other American - who are not part of the LGBT community, need to be educated about the plight of gays. To merely say to us, "You're black and you were denied your rights, therefore you should understand and support our struggle for our rights." is not a sufficient means to penetrate the deep fundamental religious beliefs of our community. Just this weekend, I was engaged in a conversation about gay rights with six other educated, progressive and very religious black women, and I could not persuade any one of them to my way of thinking about gays. Our community needs what every other community needs, and that is education.

[Eyewideopen]

So what. You elected the better of the two Americans who ran for the Presidency. You didn't do me a favor, you did yourself one.

[AnotherTry]

We shall see. He hasn't even been sworn in yet.

[AnotherTry]

So we should stop saying that black people or more homophobic. We should just say that religious people are more homophobic. And the black community is more religious. Wait, what's the difference here?

The problem of homophobia stems from religious teachings, but more whites have rejected these teachings than blacks and latinos. This article is just splitting hairs.

[diogenes1967]

But white religious folks were the ones that funded Yes On 8, for one.

I might get in trouble for this, but I do think that as a general rule, black folks are more homophobic, I am glad that we are discussing that. But you sound as if you are letting whites of the hook with this comment. The black evangelical community didn't have the financial resources to fund the Yes On 8 campaign.

[AnotherTry]

I'm not letting anyone off the hook. The fact remains that more whites have rejected these religious teachings than blacks and latinos. Otherwise the breakdown of white votes for Prop 8 would mirror that of other groups. They simply don't.

[AlP]

diogenes, NO ONE is letting them off the hook. The Mormons are #1 on the chopping block with the gay community. From bigamy, to bigotry.

However, the black community was asking for this after decades of pushing their homophobic ranting and raving. It was high time to call them out. Take no prisoners. Minorities voting against other minorities, and not just that, but voting to actually strip people of their civil rights, is not going to go unnoticed and unanswered. It was high time for this discussion.

[robXdion]

Blacks and latinos are just convenient scapegoats. The black community may certainly be homophobic to some, but the white LGBT community can be just as ra.cist as hetero whites. People skipped all over the white Mormons pushing for Prop 8 and made a beeline to the minuscule CA black population. And they chewed that bone for weeks until Nate Silver told them it was wrong. And not even KO or R. Maddow had the decency had the guts to admit the fallacy of their reporting after weeks of stoking the issue.

[AnotherTry]

Look. Gays come in all colors. Do black gays discriminate against other black gays? No.

Stop blaming the victims.

[AlP]

It has nothing to do with religions, and there's a reason why black women voted for it more than black men. They see anything that could potentially take black men away from their families as a thread. The black community has the biggest problem with homophobia out of any other minority group.

[diogenes1967]

I think there is some truth to that.

I remember years ago after I came out, I had straight friends tell me that, sure they respected me, but that I really needed to be contributing to the black family by marrying a black woman. I have never forgotten that comment.

[tr24]

The more you blame blacks, the more people you deter from your cause. Races across the board disagree with homosexuality, period. Don't just target 13% of the entire U.S. population, when the majority of the other 87% happen to agree with them.

[loria]

Boy that is a little oversimplification of a very complex situation. How do white religious women feel about gay marriage? Here in the South I can guarantee that most oppose it. Are they also afraid of anything that could potentially take their white men away from their families.

If you want to see people become more accepting of you perhaps you might want to stop with the racist stereotypes.

Is your outrage over Prop 8 just a cover for your own racism? Because it sure looks that way.

[robXdion]

That would imply most black men are gay and are seeking gay marriages. Which is ridiculously untrue.

[lynnn]

Most black women are more religious than men. Preachers complain about it all the time. If you go into an AA church you'll see way more women. But you don't care. Man you need to just live in your hate like the ppl who hate you. The world is really sad, sigh.

[politicalgenius]

I'm tired of religion being the excuse for things not getting done. Religion and being Black don't go hand in hand. Homosexuality is not something that is celebrated in the Black community. We tolerate it but you probably won't see Blacks marching in support of gay marriage.

You want to pass blame, get your facts right. The opposition to gay marriage went into the Black communities in California and passed out information and talked to Blacks - along with Latinos.You can't fault your opposition for being prepared. Prop 8 passed, not because Blacks go to church but because the gay community did a piss poor job of educating people about their stance against Prop 8.

[AnotherTry]

So we got what we deserve. Your compassion is awe-inspiring.

[StillIRise]

"... more whites have rejected these teachings than blacks and latinos."

That's odd! Virtually every time I see or hear someone speaking out against gay marriage on the MSM or read about opposition to it in the print media, with few exceptions, it's been someone white. The religious right, who are vehemently opposed to anything gay, are almost all white and mostly white Republicans. In fact, the Christian theology that ascribes sin to the gay lifestyle is a theology that was largely crafted by white theologians, which is why some people still think of Christianity itself as the "white man's religion." You may personally know of more whites who have rejected the teachings of the church in respect to homosexuality and fewer blacks and Latinos who have done so, but they obviously do not represent the overall white Christian population.

The problem that the LGBT community is facing is not a black problem. It's an American problem and a religious problem, and it's a problem exacerbated by the lack of an organized effort to engage in a meaningful discussion and education about gay rights, specifically the right to marry. It seems, from reading some of the posts, that the LGBT community only wants people to agree with them, but they don't want to do the hard work - and sometimes the humble work - of changing the hearts and minds of those who disagree.

[AnotherTry]

Fine, just beat us and hose us and sic the dogs on us if that's what it takes.

Do your worst. We can take it.

[Eyewideopen]

What's weird is on the same night Prop 8 passed, anti-gay marriage initiatives in Florida and Texas(?) passed. Let's face it most people are not comfortable with same-sex marriage. Some better hope the courts decide this issue once and for all.

[diogenes1967]

I was reading the report last night, it said that 66% of the black population lives in the big metro areas in California. I know that there are not that many blacks in California (abt. 7%) but the fact that 34% live in rural areas surprises me a bit.

Trust me, I know black homophobia first hand. But for some WeHo queens who have nothing better to do than to direct their rage at the blk. population (including those who are gay and lesbian) of the results of an exit poll was shameful and, sadly, not surprising. I look forward to this discussion.

[walleymr]

That's WeHo for you ...

[AlP]

diogenes1967, the black community has been at the forefront of pushing homophobia more than any other minority group. There are whole books written on the subject. Enough with the PC garbage.

[tr24]

Works for me...

[diogenes1967]

Pushing it on whom? With what money and resources? Back up what you are saying (I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, by the way).

[lynnn]

Yeap no AA's were involved w/Stonewall or anything.

[luvangelHussein330]

if as you say black people are at the for front of homophobia when then was there no outreach or dialog to clear the air previous to Nov. 4th? not even to minority GLBT. You lost preaching to the choir

[Jimmyboyo]

Anyone with a calm non-kneejerk and inteligent mind realized the early reporting was crap when CNN (the ones who started the whole schtick) refused to reveal its methodology etc. They refused to reveal where they polled.

California is a HUGE state. refusal to admit where they polled showed that they probably polled at 1 -2 places out of ALL of vastly large california = crap results


The largest factors in the results were not those who voted for prop 8 but rather those in the gay community who didn't vote at all (thinking it would never pass and Obama was a shoe in) and all opf the unregistered voting age gays in california. If effort by the so-called leadership had taken 1 page out of Obama's playbook then they would have focused on ground game = get out the vote as vs focusing on holding tie and suit fund raisers. prop 8 would have gone to defeat if just 1/2 of the unregistered voting age gays in california had been registered to vote and actualy voted.

[diogenes1967]

Yeah, I have read, low turnout in LA and San Francisco. Come on!

[rmetz74]

Thank you for saying that. It was certainly missing from the discussion both before and after the election.

The gay rights movement desperately needs the kind of leadership women and blacks had when they were in the heat of their battles. And it can't come from celebrities.

[AnotherTry]

Those blacks were lucky to have gay leadership in Bayard Rustin.

And the women's movement was largely led by lesbians.

Now we are the ones looking for a little support and we keep coming up short and keep getting blamed for it.

Apparently, we just can't do enough for other groups, but they can't be bothered to treat us equally.

[lynnn]

Yes lots of ppl didn't vote what the heck was up w/that?

[politicalgenius]

Alot of people didn't vote because they didn't know what they were voting for or against.

[StillIRise]

Exactly. The question I keep asking is, "Where is the organization?" From my vantage point, as one who is not a part of the LGBT community, I am not aware of any organized effort to educate and inform and outreach to those whom the LGBT community are ultimately dependent upon to establish the rights that they are seeking, which are primarily people who disagree with them or people who simply don't know enough about their cause to make an informed judgment.

Demanding their rights and then flagellating everyone who expresses opposition to their rights, is not an organized agenda.

[tr24]

Time for the gays to now compare themselves to blacks, and why we should "understand."

*Get's popcorn*

[robXdion]

Pass the pretzels and brews, this is gonna be good!!!

[AlP]

Oh look, it's the homophobes coming to spew their bs.

[tr24]

I knew you'd show up!

[jtmoney]

I know an aweful lot of hard core religious black people that view themselves more as Southern Baptists then being black. This does not suprise me one bit.

[StillIRise]

This does not make sense at all!!!!

[AbyssinianLion]

As a black man I was very shocked when I heard this reported on Nov.5. Most of the black men and women that I have known really dont care about gay marriage. I only find an increase in homophobia in rural southern blacks.

[AnotherTry]

People who don't care are more likely to support prop 8 or just not vote. That's a problem for marriage equality, wouldn't you agree?

[diogenes1967]

Actually, from some of the other blogs and reports that I read on both sides of the issue, there were a lot of those that were indifferent and did not vote for or against Prop 8. They may have been indifferent to it.

[StillIRise]

Is it only because they don't care, or could it also be because some just don't know! I am one African American who was opposed to gay marriage, in spite of my support for the gay community, until I became more educated about it. Much of my education came from my gay and lesbian friends, and even from this blogsite. But I'm just one person, and without an organized effort to educate and engage in a dialogue with the larger society, indifference will be the result.

You will probably find an increase in homophobia in rural southern Baptists ... PERIOD. It's the "Bible Belt." Fundamental religious beliefs are race-neutral.

[kellygrrrl]

"Religiosity" - pure and simple

[politicalgenius]

Cop-out response.

[irisda]

Some of us have been saying that for weeks! Including here at huffpo. I understand people were angry and dismayed and not ready to be reasoned with, but it's the truth. This is an opportunity to learn from the mistakes so that we can push forward new initiatives aimed at recognizing the rights of the LGBT community. Ultimately it will be good for the country. Let's get things done people!

[robXdion]

HP gay race-baiters, start your engines!!!

[Jimmyboyo]

You fail to differentiate between liberal gays and log cabin gays.

I'll be the first to admit that log cabinites are notorious for race baiting amongst our community just like their straight white repub sheeple do amongst heterosexuals. But you only mess yourself up by not broadening your perspective to encompas all of reality. Reality = the vast majority of gays are very liberal and anti-racist. Some of the loudest proponents for equality for all are found amongst the gay community who turn out in force in support of African americans. Only 12% of the registered voting gays voted for the racist repubs. The rest voted for Obama. 12% is small potatos though very loud, crass, and ignorant potatos.

:-)