Florida's Transgender Bathroom Rule Angers Conservatives

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RON WORD | January 10, 2009 02:38 PM EST | AP

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GAINESVILLE, Fla. — A blond girl heads from a playground into a women's restroom. A scruffy man, lurking outside, darts in behind her. "Your City Commission Made This Legal," the words on the TV screen read.

The dark ad came from opponents of a gender identity provision added last year to the city's anti-discrimination ordinance, which now allows the city's roughly 100 transgender residents to use whichever restroom they're most comfortable using.

Foes want to repeal the new protection with a March 24 ballot measure that has divided Gainesville, a generally gay-friendly university city surrounded by staunchly conservative north Florida.

Those who support the transgender protections say their opponents are really unleashing a broader attack on the rights of gay, lesbian and transgender individuals in general.

The city commission approved the restroom provision by a 4-3 vote a year ago. Before the ink could dry, Bible-quoting opponents angrily began working for its repeal.

"You are trying to operate in a realm you do not have the authority to operate in," one pastor, George Brantley, told the commissioners.

The debate is expected to become noisier as the ballot nears with opponents resorting to more TV ads and campaigns pegged to such slogans as "Keep Men out of Women's Restrooms and vice versa."

Organizations defending transgender rights are mustering their own campaign.

Story continues below

The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force notes 108 cities and counties nationwide have similar transgender protections. An attempt to repeal an ordinance in Montgomery County, Md., failed when a court ruled opponents did not collect enough signatures to place it on the ballot.

Citizens for Good Public Policy, the group behind the commercial that aired last summer in Gainesville, collected more than 6,000 signatures last summer to win a referendum. If approved, the repeal measure would also prevent the commission from adding protections beyond what the state requires: race, color, sex, religion, national origin, age, disability and marital status.

Cain Davis, chairman of Citizens for Good Public Policy, said the issue is about regulating a "government gone wild" and ensuring public safety, charging that sexual predators could now simply enter a women's restroom claiming to be a transgender individual.

"We know when men go into women's restrooms, bad things can happen," Davis said.

City Commissioner Craig Lowe, leader of a group called Equality is Gainesville's Business, called the ads from Davis' group a grossly distorted attempt to whip up fears.

Lowe's group believes anti-discrimination protections for people who change their sexual orientation are good for business and foster diversity. He noted that 433 of the Fortune 500 companies have policies covering sexual orientation and 153 cover gender identity.

Since the ordinance took effect, police have reported no problems in public restrooms stemming from the law.

Retired postal worker Donna Lee, who became a female with surgery in 2001, moved to Gainesville from Ocala last March after hearing about the anti-discrimination ordinance. The 60-year-old is working to save the protections.

"We just want to live our lives with the basic civil rights that everyone else has," Lee said.

But some are taking no chances.

Computer programmer Clare Holman, who was born male but now lives as a female, said she simply stays away from public toilets.

"I don't want to run afoul of the law by using the wrong restroom," Holman said.

___

On the Net:

Equality is Gainesville's Business: http://equalitygainesville.com

Citizens for Good Public Policy: http://citizensforgoodpublicpolicy.org

GAINESVILLE, Fla. — A blond girl heads from a playground into a women's restroom. A scruffy man, lurking outside, darts in behind her. "Your City Commission Made This Legal," the words on the TV...
GAINESVILLE, Fla. — A blond girl heads from a playground into a women's restroom. A scruffy man, lurking outside, darts in behind her. "Your City Commission Made This Legal," the words on the TV...
 
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I have a wide stance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 AM on 01/13/2009

The website of the people leading the pro-discrimination campaign has a list of crimes involving men who entered women's restrooms and raped or murdered women there. But there's no evidence whatsoever that a law prohibiting discrimination based on gender identity or expression had anything at all to do with these crimes. In fact, comparison with the list on the Transgender Law and Policy Institute transgenderlaw.orgrlaw.org), shows that all but a few of the crimes occurred in places that had no anti-discrimination laws. If the lack of such a law does not deter crime, then the existence of such a law does not encourage crime.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:07 AM on 01/13/2009
- igorz I'm a Fan of igorz 26 fans permalink

Someone inclined to nefarious intent in a woman's restroom is unlikely to be discouraged by the "Ladies Only" sign on the door. So...what's the issue?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:21 AM on 01/13/2009

Incredible narrow mindedness.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:36 AM on 01/13/2009
- Yalegirl03 I'm a Fan of Yalegirl03 6 fans permalink

I agree.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 AM on 01/13/2009
- Fudgefase I'm a Fan of Fudgefase 17 fans permalink
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I wouldn't have a huge problem about sharing loos - aslong as the guys put the d@mn seat down again afterwards!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:37 AM on 01/13/2009
- cylindar I'm a Fan of cylindar 7 fans permalink

Never happen!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:18 PM on 01/13/2009
- AdV2k1 I'm a Fan of AdV2k1 6 fans permalink
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If you think thats bad In Europe woman's restrooms don't have toilets. It's like a big bench with 4 holes on it. You sit side by side with other people of same gender to poop. They don't use toilet paper either they just use hands and wipe it on the walls.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 AM on 01/13/2009
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?????????????????!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:18 AM on 01/13/2009
- Fudgefase I'm a Fan of Fudgefase 17 fans permalink
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Not in any bit of Europe I've ever been to.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:38 AM on 01/13/2009
- dennybop I'm a Fan of dennybop 25 fans permalink
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The best post I've seen in weeks!. Thanks!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:23 AM on 01/13/2009
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Can you please advise what country this is? I had no such bathroom experience in Europe!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 AM on 01/13/2009
- Knowbetter I'm a Fan of Knowbetter 35 fans permalink
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Tetovo.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 PM on 01/13/2009
- adamsmith3 I'm a Fan of adamsmith3 17 fans permalink

LOL, this has gotta be a joke. Can't stop laughing from the visuals. So terrible.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 AM on 01/13/2009

I've traveled extensively in Northern Europe, and I've NEVER seen this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:43 AM on 01/13/2009
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When people get pushed to the margins, and then beyond, THAT is when bad things start to happen. One of the transgendered commentors said they just don't use public bathrooms, because they are afraid of going, "afoul of the law." So what is this person supposed to do? Pee in your rose bushes? Go back to the car and use a Big Gulp cup? Never leave the house? We can't put people in the position of having no good options - it creates "bad guys" where there are none. Anybody who has ever cared, or bothered, to know a transsexual person would know that the greatest danger of transsexuals using public restrooms is that small minded, judgmental, ill-informed people posing as Christian purveyors of the greater good, will hurt their feelings. Transsexuals have, often, spent their entire lives trying to be "normal". People who make it their business to point fingers, and tell them they are not, need to look down at their own bumper stickers, and ask themselves, "What would Jesus do"? Does anybody really think he would run around bashing people who have been bashed enough already? And, doesn't it ever occur to anybody that the big threat of child molestation that the right-wing-nuts like to trot out, is not confined to just male perpetrators, and female victims? Statistically, there are not nearly as many transgendered sex offenders as there are heterosexual, "regularly" gendered sex offenders. This is just hate in sheep's clothing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 AM on 01/13/2009

Best post about this topic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:44 PM on 01/13/2009
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and to add to a bit of common sense. most of the fortune 500 have gender identity policies that include bathroom usage. basically, you can use the bathroom of your gender identity after a reasonable amount of time has passed in your transition where it would be completely appropriate with your appearance. in the interim, you use a single use bathroom where no one will be in there with you. dont you think they would enact a provision in the law that would state "must have an appearance congruent with the identified with gender"?
so you know....dirty old men in trench coats cant go a wandering?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:54 AM on 01/13/2009
- Riani I'm a Fan of Riani 7 fans permalink
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I don't want transgender bathrooms thank you very much. And it has nothing to do with transsexuals. As far as I'm concerned, I'll happily share a bathroom with a trans-sexual male, even if the bathroom isn't designated as such. My problem is with the fact that you can't say "This is a bathroom for women and trans-sexual individuals only" . If the bathroom is trans-gender, it means any man can come into a women's bathroom, and vice-verca. not only trans-sexuals. So how will you keep Larry Craig out of the women's bathroom?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 AM on 01/13/2009
- LeftRight I'm a Fan of LeftRight 138 fans permalink
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You don't need to worry about Larry Craig in the women's room!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:42 AM on 01/13/2009

Well played...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:09 AM on 01/13/2009

No. Again, women (trans or not) use the women's room; men (trans or not) use the men's room. No one is asking for special treatment or special facilities.

And anti-discrimination laws aren't just about bathrooms, but some people are obsessed with plumbing fixtures. These laws are about jobs, housing, and any other situation where someone could be harassed or denied service for not being as masculine or feminine as someone else thinks they should be. These laws protect non-trans people, too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:25 AM on 01/13/2009
- berrycooda I'm a Fan of berrycooda 25 fans permalink

They need a sign that says "if you look like a lady" you can use the one for females.

If you look "like a dude" then use the one for males.

No one will notice the difference if the transgenders don't make an issue about it.

Maybe they need another bathroom labeled "transgender" and then any
sex can use it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 PM on 01/12/2009
- NWBrunette I'm a Fan of NWBrunette 69 fans permalink

No, no, no. If you're going to make a separate bathroom, make it for the right-wing fundies. They're the ones nobody wants to have in the next stall.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:42 PM on 01/12/2009
- MJinCanada I'm a Fan of MJinCanada 123 fans permalink

Yeah, that restless leg thing is really disturbing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:35 AM on 01/13/2009
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actually, thats pretty much the standard of all the fortune 500 that have gender identity policies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 AM on 01/13/2009
- weatherwaxx I'm a Fan of weatherwaxx 259 fans permalink

This hat eful propaganda has nothing to do with trans people and everything to do with preying on the fearful.

Considering how many right-wing, "godly" types get caught misbehaving in public toilets, I think we should have one for reasonable people and another for pulpit-pounders and right-wing politicians

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:59 PM on 01/12/2009

Bingo, I am gay. I look and act very masculine. I look more like a hells angel than a hair dresser, used to ride a hog, work construction etc..
I have had more 'st raight' men hit on me.
You know the ones that spout babel verses in public and have a wifey at home.
I don't know any self respecting gay man that cruises tee rooms. I have had heard of a few that were overcome by lu.st..but I don't use public rest rooms for anything other than the intended purpose.. m gettin older and those dang bp meds...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 AM on 01/13/2009

Please write letters to the Gainesville Sun about this! Their website is www.gainesville.com .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:30 PM on 01/12/2009
- Mikeeee I'm a Fan of Mikeeee 77 fans permalink

And tell them what? That they have a bunch of anal retentive fearful wing nuts living in their community? Please tell me what I's supposed to say.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 PM on 01/12/2009
- wolfgangmo I'm a Fan of wolfgangmo 24 fans permalink
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Thats a good start. Throw in a praise jeebus or two and you'll be on a roll.

Can I hear an Amen!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 AM on 01/13/2009
- Mikeeee I'm a Fan of Mikeeee 77 fans permalink

"You are trying to operate in a realm you do not have the authority to operate in," one pastor, George Brantley, told the commissioners.
Would seem to me that the statement fits pastor brantly quite nicely.
It must be so stressful to live in fear like this pastor and so many others do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:30 PM on 01/12/2009

How about something crazy, like: if you appear to be a woman, use the ladies' room. If you appear to be a man, use the mens' room...
Oh yeah...and dont molest the children...
Just a thought....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:27 PM on 01/12/2009
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it would never work.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:59 AM on 01/13/2009

Yeah, I know...I'm dreamin'

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:38 AM on 01/13/2009
- NWBrunette I'm a Fan of NWBrunette 69 fans permalink

Based on the comments I see hear, I suggest these two labels on public restroom doors. 1) Right Wing Up-Tight Conservatives, 2) Normal Relaxed People.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:14 PM on 01/12/2009
- Anciano I'm a Fan of Anciano 17 fans permalink
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You can no more change your gender than you can change your species. Just more semantic enshrinement of mental illness.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:59 PM on 01/12/2009
- NWBrunette I'm a Fan of NWBrunette 69 fans permalink

We're well in to the 21st century now; it's not the Biblical age anymore. People change their gender all the time, have been for centuries and in all cultures - many of which worshiped individuals who were able to embrace both genders. Pick up a transgender history book at your local library. Mind expansion is a wonderful thing, if you can just get over your fear.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:06 PM on 01/12/2009
- berrycooda I'm a Fan of berrycooda 25 fans permalink

We will always be in the Biblical age.

Most people accept gays etc. but why must they force people to
accept them if they don't want to.

Goes two ways....Seems like they expect everybody to justify them
and some people still follow Biblical principles that state the opposite.

They don't want to conform to our ideas so why do they think that
everybody should conform to theirs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 PM on 01/12/2009
- Anciano I'm a Fan of Anciano 17 fans permalink
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Common sense and decency are not relegated to the Bible. How do you change your brain chemistry that makes men and women react to drugs differently? How do you change your genitalia to function in the manner of the opposite gender? You can chop and channel and pump up and slice and dice all you want but it's still just a Frankensteinian creation. Why is it that anyone who challenges a radical idea that was grounds for incarceration in a mental institution throughout history is "afraid"? Or, in the other dogma, is "latent" whatever? Call yourself whatever you want, do whatever you want to your body and your life. Just don't demand that people think you normal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 PM on 01/12/2009
- weatherwaxx I'm a Fan of weatherwaxx 259 fans permalink

Oh, grow up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:53 PM on 01/12/2009
- postman606 I'm a Fan of postman606 67 fans permalink
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Your species has morphed without any effort.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:13 PM on 01/12/2009
- NWBrunette I'm a Fan of NWBrunette 69 fans permalink

The major mental illness running rampant at this time in our country are those who believe literally in the Bible and those who voted for George Bush twice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:53 PM on 01/12/2009
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actually the AMA doesnt classify transgender as a mental illness.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/16/a08_hod_resolutions.pdf

so back up and try again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 AM on 01/13/2009
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