Newsweek Reporters: Obama Should Keep Torture

digg Share this on Facebook Huffpost - stumble reddit del.ico.us RSS

January 12, 2009 10:15 AM

I Like ItI Don’t Like It

A Newsweek article, detailing the legacy that Dick Cheney is leaving for the incoming Obama administration, contains a description of a scene that I think may be steeped in apocrypha:

At a retirement ceremony recently for a top-level intelligence official, the senior spooks in the room gave each other high-fives. They were celebrating the fact that terrorists have not attacked the United States since 9/11. In the view of many intelligence professionals, the get-tough measures encouraged or permitted by George W. Bush's administration--including "waterboarding" self-proclaimed 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed--kept America safe. Cheney himself has been underscoring the point in a round of farewell interviews. "If I had advice to give it would be, before you start to implement your campaign rhetoric, you need to sit down and find out precisely what it is we did and how we did it, because it is going to be vital to keeping the nation safe and secure in the years ahead," he told CBS Radio.

I have to imagine that if you were to shake the hand of a "senior spook," it would be heavily callused from high-fives, seeing that terrorist attacks on the United States are, by any estimation, far rarer than retirement parties. The authors are willing to admit that the outgoing administration did a lot of "flaunting executive power, ignoring Congress, [and] showing scorn for anyone who waved the banner of civil liberties." But they seem to think that the Obama administration, despite having promised to dial back the Bush/Cheney legacy of transforming the Executive Branch into an unchecked ranch of authoritarianism, will have a difficult time in the undoing of that, making it unlikely that "he will wildly overcorrect for the Bush administration's abuses."

That would be a shame, and not just because Obama promised otherwise. The Bush administration takes it as an article of faith that they will receive some sort of credit for having prevented attacks on the United States. But, again, a historical comparison makes this a pretty slim accomplishment among presidents. I'll remember the Bush administration as one that failed to avail themselves of the means at their disposal to keep us safe. Let's recall, for auld lang syne, that ancient and forgotten Presidential Daily Brief. Also, 9/11 -- aren't we supposed to be "never forgetting?" Let's just say that if there's a club, in this life or the next, of Presidents who give each other high-fives for preventing terrorist attacks on the United States, George W. Bush will not be a member.

But, more to the point: Dick Cheney wants us to believe that it was their willingness to use torture and the waterboarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed that has significantly moved the needle of "victory" in our favor. This is poorly reasoned. A lack of attacks on the U.S. does not account for the spectacular job al Qaeda has done getting away with the one it did. Whatever intelligence was gained from torture hasn't rooted al Qaeda from its safe perch or significantly thrown their operational ability into disarray. And the simple fact of the matter is that Bush and Cheney glibly elide over the reality of what happens when we remove our moral ballast from the equation and denigrate our democratic values by torturing others. If I could leave you with one thought here in the last days of the Bush administration, let it be this: our policy of torture may never come to be known as the means by which attacks were prevented, but it will inevitably serve as the inspiration for the next one that succeeds.

A Newsweek article, detailing the legacy that Dick Cheney is leaving for the incoming Obama administration, contains a description of a scene that I think may be steeped in apocrypha: At a retirement...
A Newsweek article, detailing the legacy that Dick Cheney is leaving for the incoming Obama administration, contains a description of a scene that I think may be steeped in apocrypha: At a retirement...
 
Comments
104
Pending Comments
0
iPhone App Promo

Want to reply to a comment? Hint: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to

View Comments:
Page: « First ‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 Next › Last » (4 pages total)
- Durango I'm a Fan of Durango 136 fans permalink

Obeying the Constitution, International law, International treaties and the laws of the United States of America is not optional.

It is required.

Which is why Bush/Cheney et al need to be investigated and tried for any violations of the above.

Otherwise it will set a legal precedent which will destroy the United States of America.

Nothing less is at stake.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:27 PM on 01/12/2009
photo

Speaking of "required" please write your representatives:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-dennis-kucinich/israel-may-be-in-violatio_b_155709.html

Just because "Israel is our friend" does not allow us to break the rules.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:16 PM on 01/12/2009
- AlexNYC I'm a Fan of AlexNYC 11 fans permalink
photo

This morning on the Morning Joe program, Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan were both vehemently defending Bush's torture policies, claiming that is what protected the US from additional attacks by terrorists since 9/11. They claimed terrorist suspects did not deserve habeus corpus. The alternate opinions by Mika Brezenski and the guest panelist were belittled and basically ridiculed. I got so disgusted I switched channels.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:21 PM on 01/12/2009
photo

Mika should come back tomorrow with a bound notebook of professional opinions on the tactical value of coerced confessions. Anybody want to lay odds she'll ever make that case, complete with quotes from one or more lawyers and/or military experts?

http://crooksandliars.com/2007/11/03/retired-jags-send-letter-to-leahy-waterboarding-is-inhumane-it-is-torture-and-it-is-illegal/

At this point, the fact that torture is only an effective means of obtaining false confessions is common knowledge. If my job was to report and comment on matters of national interest for a national audience, I would expect to be conversant on expert opinions on such important topics.

Why do her employers have such low standards of diligence for her?

And such low standards of integrity for Buchanan and Scarborough?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 01/12/2009

Could have saved yourself the disgust by not having turned it on in the first place. Perhaps after you are disgusted tomorrow or the next day or the next, you will begin to see the light. Some shows are strictly for propaganda purposes and their spin rarely resembles the truth on any topic.

The guys that dragged us all into this colossal abyss, are leaving office, now. The spin doctors will remain to keep the fires burning. The best way to make them irrelevant, is to ignore them - turn them off - stop listening to their BS and focus on what can be done to right our ship and get us back on course. If you like Joe, Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly or Rush Limbaugh, just keep plugging in to their one-sided rants. They have no plans on changing. They can't. That is who they are. But, if you don't like wasting your time listening to their pompous lectures, just stop.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:12 PM on 01/12/2009
- Yurdelite I'm a Fan of Yurdelite 26 fans permalink

It was truly a disgusting display of Republicanism at its best. Two of the biggest jokes on TV besides Fox News channel people and two of the biggest bigots and know it alls.

The attack on Krista Freiland was uncalled for. I think I will write Phil Griffin, President of MSNBC.

nbc.comiffin@nbc.com

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:25 PM on 01/12/2009
photo

Wow, no attack since 9/11.
And who was on watch when 9/11 happened?
Republicans can't take all the credit and none of the blame.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:18 PM on 01/12/2009

Extremists need extreme techniques used on them which should never be taken off the table. However it should he used as a last resort. I am not for out right torturing but I do believe that we have to keep the option in our back pockets. Obama (God love em) can run around saying his administration will not torture but the truth is, it will still happen and probably needs to happen. Like many presidents before him, Obama won't have any control over what top secret agents are doing to carry out their missions and will have to turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to the situation. As long as he has that little cover in his policy about not torturing, he should be OK. I don't see what the debate is about at all. We can all sit here and say "DON'T TORTURE" but the truth is, we don't know who these individuals are that America has in custody. If one of them knows something about a plot to attack your city, wouldn't you want the government to extract this info to stop the the attack? Because i am sure if they weren't able to, we would all say they didn't do enough and they should have done whatever they had to to thwart the attack. You can't sweet talk info out of these people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 PM on 01/12/2009
- Telemachus I'm a Fan of Telemachus 115 fans permalink

But you can torture lies and distractions out of them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 PM on 01/12/2009

True. But again it should only used as a last resort if at all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:58 PM on 01/13/2009
- Dace I'm a Fan of Dace 2 fans permalink

Let's not forget they actually increased terror world wide and destabilized the middle east even more. And Afghanistan is going so well - so no big problem they committed war crimes we punished by death in WWII. The right wing has the moral authority with their perverted view of God to justify anything. Remember they kill doctors here too - fundamental theocracies do what their sick values dictate: "KILL AND DESTRORY ANYTHING DIFFERENT FROM ME GOD SAYS SO".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 PM on 01/12/2009
- klondiker I'm a Fan of klondiker 49 fans permalink

Are they volunteering?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 PM on 01/12/2009

Let me see

There was an attack in Bali, one in London and one in Spain since 911. Additionally we have the attack that recently occurred in India. So is it the terrorists we torture tell us about the ones that are about to happen only in the United States, and don't know about the others. Or we don't tell the other countries about what we know.

Given all the credit grabbing that occurs, how come no one has been prosecuted based on this great intelligence We have our boys from Buffalo and Miami as the heralded cases.

Oh by the way my alarm went off this a.m. and the sun came up later. I need to set it again tonite, or we will be plunged into darkness.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 PM on 01/12/2009
photo

No, no - it's only attacks on AMERICAN soil that kill mostly AMERICANS that these guys care about. Though of course, in addition to Americans and Brtis being targeted in Mumbai, there are 4200 American soldiers who would be alive today if it weren't for this administration's policies. But those people were killed on some else's soil, so they don't count.

Then, of course, there WAS 9/11 - one would think to listen to these guys that Dubya and Dick took office on 9/12/01.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:31 PM on 01/12/2009
photo

It is false logic to assert that because something did not happen, what you did prevented it. It is just as credible to say that because I wear a tin-foil hat, we have not been invaded by aliens.

I call BS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 01/12/2009
- Buddy McCue I'm a Fan of Buddy McCue 136 fans permalink
photo

See this funny hat I'm wearing? It keeps the lions away.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 PM on 01/12/2009

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. The wingnuts could benefit from a little Elementary Logic -- IF they could grasp it. I gnash my teeth every time I read or hear their absurd claims of "keeping us safe."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:43 PM on 01/12/2009
photo

It is your gnashing teeth, and Tremolux's tin foil, that are really keeping us safe.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 PM on 01/12/2009
- KareninSac I'm a Fan of KareninSac 16 fans permalink

OK, let's let sanity return and remember is was on BUSH'S WATCH that we were attacked. He was WARNED, yet he and his sidekick Cheney did NOTHING. Bush did NOT keep us safe. We lost 3000 citizens on Sept. 11, and have now lost at least 4000+ in Iraq. Who knows how many in New Orleans when he failed to prepare for the storm of the centry for which, once again, he was WARNED.

This president did NOT keep us safe. He has blood on his hands that I hope will drive him insane.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 PM on 01/12/2009
- Telemachus I'm a Fan of Telemachus 115 fans permalink

He's already insane -- as are the 49% of the electorate who can't see it. THAT's what's scary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 PM on 01/12/2009
photo

Whoever these people are doing the "high fives" should be identified and immediately fired.

There was no reason for AQ to attack this country again after 911. One of their main goals was to bankrupt this nation. Since Bush was doing the job for them, why would they take a chance and attack us again?

They seem to also be like the people who take credit for "keeping us safe" since 911, but deny any responsibility for allowing 911 to happen. I doubt that the 3500 people who died in 911 think that the Bush Administration kept them safe.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 PM on 01/12/2009
- AddyGmom I'm a Fan of AddyGmom 59 fans permalink
photo

missmolly,
I totally agree with you that AQ has no need to attack this country again. 9/11 is doing precisely what they intended it to do. And dubya is complicit in the ruin to the economy, the shame of AbuGraib, the on-going wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 PM on 01/12/2009
- bbrecht I'm a Fan of bbrecht 18 fans permalink
photo

9/11 happened on Bush/Cheney's watch-- so no credit to them for curtailing terrorism. In fact, studies show their foreign policy has increased terrorism in the world these past eight years. Studies also show that torture does not produce reliable information.

But who cares about studies? We're talking about "intelligence" here....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:26 PM on 01/12/2009
- SirReal1 I'm a Fan of SirReal1 64 fans permalink

I can hardly believe I'm actually saying this, but, I a... I ag...I agrrrrrr..­. I think Cheney is correct!

"If I had advice to give it would be, before you start to implement your campaign rhetoric, you need to sit down and find out precisely what it is we did and how we did it, because it is going to be vital to keeping the nation safe and secure in the years ahead," he told CBS Radio.

WE CERTAINLY NEED TO KNOW "What it is they did, and how they did it".

The Nation virtually CRIES OUT for this!

WE NEED a FULL INVESTIGATION, not only of the TORTURE, but of every policy, every signing statement, every manipulation that this (mis) Administration engaged in!

Until we KNOW EVERYTHING THEY DID, we can not begin to FIX IT!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 PM on 01/12/2009
- LauraD I'm a Fan of LauraD 51 fans permalink

I began cracking my knuckles for the reply after your first sentence.

Allow me to say: "whew." I thought someone had gone batshit crazy up in here.
Did it make you feel all slimy and dirty to say "I think Cheney is correct"? I know it made me feel slimy and dirty typing the quote. :)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:24 PM on 01/12/2009
- davism97 I'm a Fan of davism97 16 fans permalink

The war on terror was a sham from the beginning. We need to rethink what the proper response to a terrorist attack is. Invading a peaceful country with no terrorist connections and alienating ourselves from the rest of the world seems like a pretty bad way to respond to a terrorist attack.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 PM on 01/12/2009
photo

From 1993 to 2001: essentially an eight year span between ME terrorist attacks on US soil.

From 2001 to 2009: at the moment, about the same length of time has passed without another attack on US soil.

So, for all of you NeoCon trolls lurking about, my question is this:

What is your compelling argument that efforts by BushCo have kept us safer? Given that we had intelligence on the 9/11 attack that we ignored, do you expect us to believe that the most incompetent administration in our history has actually been effective in this area? What is you proof other than unsubstantiated claims--is the lack of an attck in this span of time all you have to offer?

I do not believe that the extreme measures undertaken by BushCo has been more effective than what we were doing prior to the Patriot Act, illegal wiretapping, and detaining and torturing so-called "enemy combatants" on flimsy evidence.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 PM on 01/12/2009
Page: « First ‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 Next › Last » (4 pages total)
Comments are closed for this entry

 You must be logged in to comment. Log in  or connect with 

Connect