Rachel Maddow: Will Obama Prosecute Torturers? (VIDEO)

If President-elect Barack Obama plans to commit resources to the task of investigating Bush and Cheney, it would be putting it mildly to say he's not tipped his hand. Over the weekend, he told George Stephanopoulos: "[O]bviously we're going to be looking at past practices and I don't believe that anybody is above the law. On the other hand, I also have a belief that we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards. ... My orientation is going to be moving forward." Progressives are left wondering what future there is for holding the outgoing administration to account for its Constitutional violations.

On last night's Rachel Maddow Show, Maddow took up this issue in depth, noting the successful efforts of Bob Fertik of Democrats.com and others to get this issue front-and-center on the Change.gov website. These questions are still extant. But Maddow smartly invokes Dawn Johnsen, Obama's recent appointment to lead the Office of Legal Counsel, a little-hyped appointment that deserves much greater attention. Maddow features this 2008 statement from Johnsen:

We must avoid any temptation simply to move on. We must instead be honest with ourselves and the world as we condemn our nation's past transgressions and reject Bush's corruption of our American ideals. Our constitutional democracy cannot survive with a government shrouded in secrecy, nor can our nation's honor be restored without full disclosure.

And just to demonstrate the depth of Johnsen's commitment to the rule of law, let's pull up her reaction to John Yoo's "torture memo," from an April 3, 2008 post on Slate's "Convictions" blog, exchanging outrage with Slate's Dahlia Lithwick:

Where is the outrage, the public outcry?! The shockingly flawed content of this memo, the deficient processes that led to its issuance, the horrific acts it encouraged, the fact that it was kept secret for years and that the Bush administration continues to withhold other memos like it--all demand our outrage.

Yes, we've seen much of it before. And yes, we are counting down the remaining months. But we must regain our ability to feel outrage whenever our government acts lawlessly and devises bogus constitutional arguments for outlandishly expansive presidential power. Otherwise, our own deep cynicism, about the possibility for a President and presidential lawyers to respect legal constraints, itself will threaten the rule of law--and not just for the remaining nine months of this administration, but for years and administrations to come.

So, Johnsen has got the mettle to bring the American people the remedy. Still, the question remains: will Obama unleash her? Conveniently, Maddow had Lithwick at the ready to attempt to divine the possibilities. Unfortunately, Lithwick was not asked for insight into Johnsen's appointment.

But that isn't to say that no insight was rendered. Lithwick told Maddow that the first clue as to the administration's mindset would come when and if Attorney General nominee Eric Holder gets asked "unambiguous questions" about torture at his confirmation hearing -- especially those of the sort that Michael Mukasey refused to answer. Holder's response, Lithwick says, will indicate "whether the goalposts have been moved irrevocably post-Mukasey, post-Alberto Gonzalez, or whether the goalposts will be moved back to where they used to be."

As for her own opinion, Lithwick is withering about the "legal question" of whether to prosecute: "If we were talking about a bank robbery, and the arguments against prosecuting were 'Oh well, those people are really stressed out, it was a crisis, they didn't think they were breaking the law ... let's just turn the page, you'd laugh at me."

[WATCH.]

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Comments

[impatient]

I haave become so disillusioned with obama. I love the new patriotism and the inspiration, but he ius just making one politically expedient decision after another, and the most blatant one of all is this decision to leave bush and Cheney alone.

I know he wants to be conciliatory, but as Lithwick said, This is not even a legal question. it is SO clear they broke the law. he is apparently willing to say that's ok as long as the republicans don't say anything mean about him.

Disgusting.

[davism97]

Why no talk of the fact that Bush lied to congress in order to make war on a peaceful nation (which results in over 4000 American deaths and countless Iraqi deaths)? Isn't that his biggest crime of all?!

[Profyz]

Obama will not go against conservatives. His objective so far is to please everyone all around the plantation. Every morning Gates calls him to remind him to sit straight. He thanks him kindly.

[TomTheAlmostUgly]

"Obama will not go against conservatives. His objective so far is to please everyone all around the plantation. Every morning Gates calls him to remind him to sit straight. He thanks him kindly."

You Republicans just keep telling yourselves that, during the next four years.

The fact is, conservatives are now laughingstocks -- even more so because they haven't realized it yet.

[TheBaffler]

Obama is a pusillanimous establishmentarian, totally lacking the backbone to hold Bush and his minions accountable for anything.

[TomTheAlmostUgly]

"Obama is a pusillanimous establishmentarian, totally lacking the backbone to hold Bush and his minions accountable for anything."

If Obama is such a wuss, how come Hillary or POW McCain isn't our president-elect?

[TheBaffler]

That's a non-sequiter. He's president because he lied to a nation yearning for change. Nothing brave about that.

[Tommygun264]

I still hold out hope that Obama is merely stalling so as not to tip his hand while Bush still has his hot little hands on the pardon pen and dozens, perhaps hundreds of incriminating documents that could be shredded lay forgotten in storage. My hope is bolstered by the fact that even though Obama and Biden's public statements on the subject remain ambiguous, President-Elect Obama's appointments to the DOJ are of people who have a record of verbal and written statements calling for the vigorous pursuit and prosecution of those guilty of war crimes and violations of the US Constitution, warning of the perils of letting such crimes go unpunished.

That said, if Obama, once in office, back-peddles on his previous promises to prosecute these crimes, he will lose all support from everyone who truly understands and holds dear the principles upon which this nation was founded, regardless of political stripe.

[eden4barack08]

I'm all for prosecution and all, but please tell me when when exactly did Obama "previously promise to prosecute these crimes", specifically? He's had to be somewhat ambiguous throughout the campaign that I can recall. He has always said the same thing he's saying now, that is that nobody's above the law, and that he would look into everything if laws were broken. But I've never specifically heard him 'promise' anything. If he's eventually able to carry on with this, it'll be because he upholds the Constitution and believes prosecution is necessary for the country, NOT because of some phantomatic promise.

[joeblow69]

torture?? trying to watch her show is torture, she should be prosecuted!!!

[harrymellon]

If he doesn't then YOU know we have been scammed again.He will be seen for what he is...window dressing...a trick to make us think there is change when he is really in Daddy Bushs pocket. Bill Clinton always was. You can watch them practically making out nowdays without fear of being seen as business partners. One big crime family.

[jcwtts1]

insanity. How can you take yourself seriously Harry? Lets act like we've seen a little something of the world and that we weren't born yesterday. There are two issues going on. War Crimes, and Politics. While under normal circumstances I might agree with you and go with investigating Bush til the tide came home, these aren't normal time. Obama and we dems have a unique opportunity, one that hasn't come around since Watergate, and before that since the great depression. We can actually destroy the republican party. Before you scoff, think about the elections in 2010. There are 4 open seats now, plus vulnerable seats in PA, Iowa, and Vitter the lover of hookers in Louisiana. If we hold what we have, difficult but not impossible, we have the opportunity to pick up 7 more in the senate. At worst that means the GOP will need four election cycles to get back to even and five to take a lead in the senate. At best it means that the GOP has gone the way of the Whigs and the Duncan Hunters and Tom Tancreto's (sp) of the world form their own party, the Scooters and Cheney's form their own party and the christian right forms its own party. The point I'm making is that the only thing that might possibly mess this all up is a vendetta against Bush, justified though it is. We lose that political fight and we damage our chances to really change the world.

J

[eden4barack08]

It will happen. We just have to be patient and understand the politics behind it. But it will happen, trust me.

[b-rad81]

I highly doubt Obama will prosecute anybody

[LKV]

At first I was one that thought lets move forward and fix this disaster as quickly as possible, Now the more time Ive had to think and process I strongly believe we need to prosecute and jail everyone involved in this administration it is the only way we will regain our reputation in the world and regain our self respect as a nation.

[oafishcad]

Prosecuting the people who did more to destroy America than any terrorist ever could hope to is not a distraction, and it's not in the past. It is important and the harm is continuing.

[meko]

One of the reasons I campaigned for Obama is that I want the US to regain the respect of the world. If these war crimes are not investigated (and prosecuted) then the world will see Obama's victory as merely symbolic.

[oafishcad]

All crimes are "in the past". They're still crimes.

[LITNUP]

not when there are no crimes

[Shashi0224]

But there were crimes. Bush admitted to okaying torture on tv the other day. THAT is a war crime. And that's not even going into the illegal wiretaps etc.

[oafishcad]

Torture is a war crime. Waterboarding is torture. Japanese soldiers were executed for waterboarding after WWII. Cheney/Bush OKd waterboarding. They are war criminals.

[hjfraser2002]

Oh thir there.

[timberdoodle]

If there is not an investigation and subsequent prosecution of any alleged crimes then the U.S. will never be a nation of laws and social justice. Sooner or later the only alternative will be an uprising of the masses something similar to the French Revolution.

Otherwise America be content to live in a third world country that pretends it's the greatest nation in the world.

[reliant1]

We have never been a nation of laws. We have been a nation of ever changing business rules, policies and practices. The uprising will never happen - we won't ever copy the French. Ever.

We will continue along until a debtor gets tired of putting up with us and the chickens come home to roost.

[b-rad81]

Wow, you are extremely delusional

[oafishcad]

Obama has no obligation at this point in time to prosecute anyone. Once he takes the oath of office to protect, preserve and defend the Constitution, he will have the duty to do so.