US Aviation, Public Transit, Roads, Water Earn 'D' Grade: Engineering Report

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SETH BORENSTEIN | January 28, 2009 12:18 AM EST | AP

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WASHINGTON — America's roads, public transit and aviation have gotten worse in the past four years. Water and sewage systems are dreadful. The basic physical backbone of American society is barely above failing, a report by top engineers says.

It'll cost $2.2 trillion to fix America's ailing infrastructure, according to highlights of a report being released early, just as the House of Representatives readies its first vote on President Barack Obama's call for a massive economic stimulus spending package.

The country's roads, dumps, dams, bridges, schools and rail systems need lots of that money, say the engineers, who would get a piece of the pie in working on the repairs. Government officials are already aiming billions of dollars at those physical needs as part of what at the moment is a $825 billion economic stimulus package. But the engineers say that's not enough.

Overall, the American Society of Civil Engineers gives the U.S. physical backbone for everything from schools and parks to dams and levees a D. That's the same overall grade as the last time the group gave a report, in 2005, but it really is slipping from a "high D" to a "low D," said report chairman Andrew Herrmann.

Herrmann, an engineer with the New York firm Hardesty & Hanover, said his group is issuing the highlights of the report _ the full document won't be out until late March _ "to be relevant ... investing in our infrastructure will create jobs."

Of the 15 areas the engineers looked at, three got worse and only one got better. The three that worsened were all transportation oriented: aviation dropped from a D+ to a D; so did public transit; and America's intricate roadway system potholed from a D to a D-. Only the energy system improved, from a D to a D+.

In 2005, the engineers said it would cost what would be $1.7 trillion in current dollars to fix what's broken. Now the pricetag is up to $2.2 trillion.

"That just goes to show that waiting has cost money," Herrmann told The Associated Press on Tuesday evening. "We haven't made any progress in four years. If my kid came home with 11 Ds and 4 Cs, I know I wouldn't be happy."

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America's solid waste system was the only C+ on the report card. Bridges got a C; parks and rail systems managed C-. The only D+ plus was for energy. Solid Ds went to aviation, dams, hazardous waste, schools and public transit. The worst grades, D-, went to drinking water, inland waterways, roads and sewage systems.

"That absolutely makes sense," said Granger Morgan, head of Carnegie Mellon University's engineering and public policy program and an expert who wasn't part of the 28-engineer panel that handed out the grades. Morgan said just traveling the world shows that American infrastructure, especially in transportation, "is certainly not in the same league as parts of the developing world and parts of Europe."

But just because the federal government is handing out lots of money and society's physical backbone needs plenty of repairs, that doesn't automatically mean the government should spend most of its dollars on things such as new roads and power plants, Morgan said. Often, building newer roads doesn't fix congestion, yet building better public transit would pay off more, he said. And spending on energy efficiency more than physical power plants makes sense, he added.

"One really needs to make these choices on a bit of solid engineering economics as opposed to emotion and rhetoric," Morgan said. "We've got an enormous pent-up need. The only message is: `Let's be careful to the extent that we can in the manner we spend the money.'"

And even though the pricetag to fix America's physical needs is $2.2 trillion over five years, it's really only half that bad because $1.1 trillion of that is already being spent or planned, Herrmann said. The biggest "gap" between what's being spent or planned and what's needed is an additional $548.5 billion in roads and bridges, the report said. Second is $189.5 billion for public transit.

"Do you realize we're driving on a lot of roads that were built during the Eisenhower Administration," Herrmann said.

The report, the first one issued since Hurricane Katrina flooded New Orleans, added America's 100,000 miles of levees as a new area of failing infrastructure. Levees, which hold back floodwaters, get a D minus grade, with the report saying, "The risk to the public health and safety from failure has increased."

___

On the Net

The American Society of Civil Engineers: http://www.asce.org

WASHINGTON — America's roads, public transit and aviation have gotten worse in the past four years. Water and sewage systems are dreadful. The basic physical backbone of American society is bare...
WASHINGTON — America's roads, public transit and aviation have gotten worse in the past four years. Water and sewage systems are dreadful. The basic physical backbone of American society is bare...
 
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A small tax on something like gas or Chinese imports (something huge) should be added to focus on major infrastructure work. The program should have a long term plan, for example a fifteen year time frame. This could be a huge stimulus with benefits to all sectors. To delay this indefinitely should not be an option. People say the people on Wall Street will not do these jobs, well their great grandfathers did, and if it is a choice between having work or being unemployed, they might. Anyway, just the production, supply, delivery, planning, financing etc. will create jobs. This will then flow money into the many various regular service sectors.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 PM on 01/31/2009

Maybe once the ecconomy stabilizes the goverment could charge a ONE time tax of $200 per adult (no seniors) that would automatically go into an infrustructure expenditure account for work to begin.
If there are 100 million adults is that two trillion? People who want could choose to get payments over a 12 or even 24 month period. Once work is finished we can all have a party and close the account. If anything is left we can give it to charity. I'm sure no one wants to pay, but I think everybody does realize these things do cost money.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:39 PM on 01/28/2009

As someone familiar with cost estimating from the engineer and technician point of view, let me just say that when it is unconstrained it is always a magnitude or more above what it should be. Fortunately, most of the time there are experienced production managers to constrain the costs (time and resources) to practical and competitive levels.

If I have a requirement that I am willing to compromise on constraints, I will often pay more more in the end due to laxity in planning and design.

System developed on the standard requirement development process are invariably bloated, and run over time and over budget. But systems developed under the stress of emergency and cast as mission essential are cost effective to the needs. Look at the difference between the military systems built in peacetime and those built in wartime.

I hope many would agree that our current situation is near emergency status.

So when engineers tell us than our development demands will cost 2.2 trillion we should ask them if they understand the constraints.

In this time of economic crisis, do we want to contract out our engineering requirements out to KBR or to Skunk Works?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:24 PM on 01/28/2009
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 255 fans permalink

Defense spending is one of the worst things you can spend money on. Its like an insurance policy.... you need to have some of it... but the min is the best.

If it works you dont use it and it rusts away, needs maintenance and does nothing and must be replaced. Its an investment that you largely pay to warehouse.­.. If you do use it, it must be quickly replaced.. just to get back to where you were.. no progress. and when you use it it cost you even more money.. like IRAQ. A very poor capital investment.

No one would see buying an insurance policy as an economic stimuli ... just something you need.

Now build a factory and supporting infrastructure, it produces items for sale, pays for itself and keeps on doing so with long term jobs... And if it makes capital goods... which are then used to build other items a true long term multipler effect is created.

Only MFG long term increases a countries wealth....­per Teddy Roosevelt. Defense spending decreases a countries wealth as we are now seeing. We are 23% of the worlds GDP, but we now spend 51 percent of the amount spent on a military goods. Not sustainable.

Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:10 PM on 01/28/2009
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 255 fans permalink

Ok, I'm a small business owner. Give me money and I will do what.... enlarge my factory.. relocate..­.. buy equipment made in Korea, China and japan... That will also all take years to do by the way... and because the stimuli is not directed on where I buy the equipment from... 65% of the benefit will go to Asia...

Many small businesses­.. most by far and large are service companies and restaurant­s... why would I need more seats in my restuarant until there are more people in my town? If I need more its likely because I have just attracted a competitors customers.­.. no net increase in business or jobs... Will doctors or lawyers need more staff, if they are no more lawt suits or sick people? NO

Any stimuli that is not for capital goods is short termn and any thats for capital goods will be slower to implement.

Repugs, pls get your heads out of your tail pipes... Infrastructure spending is the BEST, since you are buying a long term asset thats needed anyway and employee people to build the asset. Tax credits for US made equipment is good...

BUSH's tax cuts created no net new jobs over their 8 year history (at least not in the US)... duh...

Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:45 PM on 01/28/2009
- dollbaby I'm a Fan of dollbaby 5 fans permalink
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I've been thinking that all day. So far the money given to business, and so far its banks and big business has been spent on private planes, redecorating offices, bonuses, and luxurious staff meetings. It's suppose to trickle down.....b­ut it trickles to another country.
And didn't we just try all of this their way with the Bush tax cuts?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 PM on 01/28/2009
- loveu2 I'm a Fan of loveu2 6 fans permalink

Amen, amen, amen! Why are we paying any attention to these people? I know the new Pres. wants us all to cooperate, but BOTH parties have to agree to that for it to work. Just pass the damn thing!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:25 PM on 01/28/2009
- Beninn I'm a Fan of Beninn 33 fans permalink
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Republican senator Tom Coburn [R-OK] is calling for money in the stimulus to go for more jobs that build or manufacture things that we need and will use - MILITARY EQUIPMENT. That, and more tax cuts for the rich.

War is the only industry that Republicans' value.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 PM on 01/28/2009
- Beninn I'm a Fan of Beninn 33 fans permalink
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The Republican legislature in Arizona is cutting $1.5 BILLION from education.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:58 PM on 01/28/2009

We have a budget deficit here, as many states do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 01/28/2009
- dollbaby I'm a Fan of dollbaby 5 fans permalink
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Part of a plan to keep the rich rich. They can afford private school. The rest of the nation's children can get dumber and remain poor. Then they blame the poor for being poorm being in Katrina, and not using the bootstraps on the boots they don't have.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 PM on 01/28/2009
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TheLoyalOpposition See Profile I'm a Fan of TheLoyalOpposition permalink
Okay, Tiff.

Can we agree that truth should never be offensive and that if it is, the problem lies with the person being offended?

No, probably not.

I have so much work to do, so much personal growth before I can become a liberal.
**********­**********­**********­**********­**********­**********­****

I agree that there is a problem within a certain community whereby young women have babies out of wedlock. I completely agree that that is an issue and should be discussed in an honest way; however, that should be addressed in a more constructive way.

You were getting back at me because I talked about Sarah and Bristol.

I have you told over and over again that I would have a conversation with you about that kind of stuff, but you have stop antagonizing libruuls.

You make fair points, but no on sees them that way because of the other stuff.

You know what I'm sayin?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 01/28/2009
- RTIII I'm a Fan of RTIII 84 fans permalink

I'm a bit tired an annoyed at your LONG off-topic - and repetitively so - posts.

Please go somewhere else to "chat" on off-topic things.
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 PM on 01/28/2009
- kittykali I'm a Fan of kittykali 65 fans permalink

ditto.....­.as posted below.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 PM on 01/28/2009
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Do you have to read everything that you see?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 PM on 01/28/2009
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Am I the only one that's fla g ged "ere" for a busive use of free air time? The character's a walking adver tisement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 PM on 01/28/2009
- ere I'm a Fan of ere 50 fans permalink

lol, do you need a waaambulance?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 01/28/2009
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Hey Billboard!

How great to hear from you!

And without the advert!

I believe this is the only time I've ever seen a post of yours without the a buse of free airtime.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:45 AM on 01/29/2009
- U R 1 2 I'm a Fan of U R 1 2 25 fans permalink

The Republicans have just, however, offered their own stimulus package to help the U.S. economy:
http://www.needlenose.com/images/gop.jpg
Step right up. They think they have surpassed their old 'trickle down' mantra.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:38 PM on 01/28/2009
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And the bag represents the American working class.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 PM on 01/28/2009
- Rule Of Law I'm a Fan of Rule Of Law 146 fans permalink

And the money to maintain these public works went where? Down that rats hole called Iraq-istan, and into the pockets of Halliburton, AIG, Blackwater, General Dynamics, Wall Street bankers, and Bush's favorite, the OIL INDUSTRY! And let's not forget about the debt service to China, Japan, and the Saudis who carry the lion's share of the debt Bush ran up fighting two wars while lowering taxes.

Never mind that nonsense about smaller govt--we have the largest most debt laden govt. ever. The neos wanted to make it impossible for government to take care of The People--mission accomplished.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:38 PM on 01/28/2009
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TheLoyalOpposition See Profile I'm a Fan of TheLoyalOpposition permalink
If it offended you, I do apologize.

What part was offensive?

You've told me that you prefer "black" to "AA" so it can't be that.

You are an honest realist so it can't be the part about "holding it against anyone".

Help me out, Tiff. Enlighten me in the ways of liberals so that I might reach a higher state of consciousness, where you all reside.
**********­**********­**********­**********­**********­**********­**********­*******

I personally didn’t get offended by anything you said, but there are more black women on the site who did. I am sure some others as well.

They were offended by the black women and having a child without being married thing.

That angered a few of the girls in here and some happen to be black.

People don’t get that you’re cool in that way.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:38 PM on 01/28/2009
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Let me enlighten you about BitterBetty's views.

These are his comments under another of his many ba nned screen names.

All the comments that follow refer to President Obama.
.

SweetSydney
As long as he doesn't smile or stare.
posted 07/18/2008 at 20:14:41

SweetSydney
Anybody know where ole purple lips is going tomorrow?
Maybe Iraq?
Flagged Posted 09:23 PM on 07/19/2008

SweetSydney
"Watermelons don't even have any food value, and they're heavy and fragile and impossible to ship." But they sure taste good on a hot summer day! Ask O, I'll bet he agrees.
posted Jul 16, 2008 at 09:39:04
.

Now, Tiff---tell me that BitterBetty is "cool" in any way.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:43 PM on 01/28/2009

Barney Fife make a bid to regain his official B J archivist status.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 01/28/2009
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Thunder,

I know you and I disagree on him, but I am convinced he is cool.

I am sorry.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 PM on 01/28/2009

Okay, Tiff.

Can we agree that truth should never be offensive and that if it is, the problem lies with the person being offended?

No, probably not.

I have so much work to do, so much personal growth before I can become a liberal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:44 PM on 01/28/2009
- postman606 I'm a Fan of postman606 67 fans permalink
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Tiff just wasted all those keyboard strokes on you, because you obviously don't get it. You made a statement based on your own prejudices, had nothing to do with the truth.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 PM on 01/28/2009
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I think I was an old black woman in my last life...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 01/28/2009
- kittykali I'm a Fan of kittykali 65 fans permalink

well if you're not personally offended then stop hi-jacking the thread and posting about it......

since you accept this a.sshoIe as "cool" and since you are not personally offended by people writing shiit like that, let the ones that ARE offended make their comments known.....­.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:58 PM on 01/28/2009
- robodweeb I'm a Fan of robodweeb 116 fans permalink
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Orlando Utilities Commission (electricity & water/sewer) just announced a 14% rate hike.

Reasons given:

Fuel costs (Huh?)

Decreased demand (use less,pay more?)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:36 PM on 01/28/2009
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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The party that has retreated to Appalachia and The Ozarks is against education funding.

Who woulda thunk?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:34 PM on 01/28/2009
- helenwheels I'm a Fan of helenwheels 528 fans permalink
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LMAO, good one....!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 PM on 01/28/2009
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 620 fans permalink
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Here is the byproduct.­..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tqxzWdKKu8

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:38 PM on 01/28/2009
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