Gaza War Crimes Go Unpunished: Yasmin Alibhai-Brown

So that's that then, is it? Gaza is done and dusted? Very satisfying, I'm sure, for the Israeli leadership and their devoted allies at the BBC. But not so fast. For the one and a half million traumatised and wounded souls in that small strip, unendurable agony goes on. The very earth they stand on burns and cracks. And I am not here indulging a writer's tendency to hyperbole or neat metaphor.

Up to 60 per cent of the best farmland in Gaza has been systematically destroyed, livestock too. Christine van Nieuwenhuyse, a director at the World Food Programme, says this deliberately blighted land "may not be exploitable again". The lemon trees and noisy chickens must have been hiding Hamas rockets. Israel is also keeping some of the remaining arable land beyond the reach of the Palestinians who own it by making it into a buffer zone. Almost all the infrastructure has been flattened too. The resulting perpetual humiliation and dependency, one assumes, is part of Israel's strategic plan.

President Obama has sent forth George Mitchell, a skilled and respected negotiator, to start dialogues that could eventually lead to a durable settlement. We must hope he can achieve the impossible. But even if he does, that alone cannot ensure the kind of peace that all the people in that region sorely need and surely deserve.

Continue reading from the Independent.

Comments

[TruthSeeker2009]

http://www.sowarmag.com/megasowar/2009/02/05/Gaza_Aftermath.htm
How can these people forget !
War is clearly not the solution, has never been, and will never be.

[skialethia]

Since September 29, 2000 1,487 Palestinian CHILDREN have been mur dered by I s r a el.

Why is I s r ael targetting Pal est in ian Children???

[BubbaC33]

Why is Hamas starving its own citizens? Why does Hamas hide behind Arab children and other civilians?

[Freenation]

Future Civilian killer:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123376292084948147.html

"Netanyahu Says Israel's Gaza Offensive Ended Too Soon..."

[Hasur]

PART 2:
MagisterLudi are you taking notes? or searching to find more arabs that served in the Israeli government.

The primary objective was prevent Palestinians from regaining ownership (through purchase of THEIR own land mind you) or that of their people. Not ONE Palestinian settlement or village has been built since 1948. The Palestinian were (and still are) forced to make do with jus 3% of the land in Israel, where only 2% they can build on and the remaining is designated as ‘agricultural’ land by the Israeli government which cannot be built upon. Even with privitaization of land that began in the 1990s, the JNF excludes Palestinians from this.

Democracy in Israel is mainly a mechanical process, and even though there a number of knesset members of parliament, and arabs that have served in the military, the majority of arab isrealis have to deal with discriminatory laws and policies that no other western democracy can get away with.

[MagisterLudi]

Reality:
Fact:The situation in Israel is not ideal for Palestinian Israeli citizens.
Fac t: Israeli Arabs extremely value their Israeli citizenship and benefits that bring.
Fact:Israeli Arabs enjoy one of the best FREE Health insurances in the world WAY better that most of Western countries. WAY better than American system.
Fact:Israeli Arabs enjoy one of the best social benefits in the world.
Fact: One of the biggest fears Israeli Arab have is to end up under Arab governance.

"When Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak raised the prospect, in mid-2000, of some Arab-majority parts of Jerusalem being transferred to the PA, a Palestinian Arab social worker found that "an overwhelming majority" of Jerusalem's 200,000 Arabs chose to remain under Israeli control.

A member of the Palestinian National Council, Fadal Tahabub, specified that 70% preferred Israeli sovereignty.
Another politician, Husam Watad, described people as "in a panic" at the prospect of finding themselves under Palestinian rule.

"...We want to stay in Israel. At least here I can speak my mind freely without being dumped in prison, as well as having a chance to earn an honest day's wage."

[Hasur]

You're quite the disappointment MagisterLudi.
I'm still convinced that you haven't read a single book about the region.... Daniel Pipes? The hawkish founder of pro-israeli Middle East Forum? The same man who set up Campus Watch in 2002, a website that posted files on academics suspected of "anti-isreali" behavior? that encouraged students to report comments or behaviours considered hostile to Israel from the professors? Or how about his attempts to lobby congress to curtail US federal government funding for Middle East study programs at universities.

Sartre, Solzhenitsyn, Gandhi would be disgusted at such attempt to stifle open debates in universities. I won't even get into what your alma mater would say about your improper use of use of quotes.

[skialethia]

You reek of pro pag anda.

[skialethia]

You re e k of propaganda and I'm not buying any of it. If a Pal est inian state were established with full rights, complete sovereignty including open borders do you think those people would remain under the yoke of Is r ael and serve as cheap labor??? Gimme a break!

[scared4ALL]

Come on people. Help save the innocent & their children by speaking out concerning Israel. Pass this link around as much as possible and tell everyone to demand President Obama stop "US" from supporting Israel in the manner we have been doing for far too long.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

Email media & demand truth in reporting concerning the atrocities of Israel, too. I'll send a media list in a minute so you can save it for all important matters. I send the media the following when I write them. Funny how this scene from the movie "Network" still applies to today. "Mad As Hell">

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08

[MagisterLudi]

Chaos4700See, that's the part that ML got wrong -- it wasn't a Hamas rocket. "
Sigh... usual pattern of precious enthusiasms bereft of actual information..
Freenation posted: " Post the link of the news from some 'credible' source and I WILL criticize Hamas for it."
Ready?
A crude rocket fired by Palestinian militants fell short of its target in Israel on Friday, striking a house in the northern Gaza Strip and killing two schoolgirls.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/26/israel-allows-humanitaria_n_153539.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-12-26-israel-palestine_N.htm
http://cbs5.com/national/Gaza.rocket.misfires.2.895240.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/3966259/Palestinian-rocket-kills-
two-Gaza-s­choolgirls­.html

Now go ahead. Let's hear it.

[Brett575]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/04/un-says-hamas-seized-aid_n_163834.html

Nah, it must have been the tooth-fairy. Keep on exposing the loony lies, Magaister. Good job!!!

[chaos4700]

A hasbara high five. How quaint.

[MagisterLudi]

Well, freenation. Where are you? Let's hear it.

[skialethia]

God Bless You....Chaos4700 and Freenation!!!

(Please post at least this for God's sakes!)

[Freenation]

Do thank HP moderators also for providing a fair forum...

To make myself clear I stand by truth and have no favorites...Had IDF killed 100% Hamas in their latest misadventure I would have supported them...but they killed 750+ civilians...I would have still supported them if they would have made a sincere effort to show they were sorry for this fiasco...but IDF and Israeli leadership made no apologies...to make it worse US MM tried to cover up as always actions of IDF thugs...

Call a Killer a Killer be it HAMAS or IDF...

[skialethia]

I hear you. I don't like any form of v i o l e n c e. But can someone please tell me how, after more than 40 years of occupation, if not 60, and all the injustice the P a l e s t i n i a n s are suffering are they supposed to defend themselves? How is someone supposed to live under oppression for so many years and the world does nothing, because I s r a e l has managed to f o o l the world into believing that they are the real victims in this? I s r a e l has defied International Law and the U.N. for years without so much as a slap on the wrist. So what other means are available for these people to resist?

The unfortunate thing is that so many had to pay with their lives in this m a s s a c r e for people to begin to see, and still NOTHING is being done. It's already being dropped off the front pages, and now Net an yahu is going to win the elections and impose even more suffering on these people. How do you make the suffereing stop???

[skialethia]

The bias on this thread is outrageous. MagisterLudi is the only one allowed to post freely here, while my posts have been deleted!

[MagisterLudi]

Start making sense. Use reputable links. Stop hate mongering.

[chaos4700]

Use reputable links. You know, too much irony can be toxic, ML.

[scared4ALL]

I'm sorry to hear that skialethia. Mine probably won't post then, either. I'll give it a try in a minute but first I was wondering where the propagandist Michale32086 is? I see this thread is already in the hands of those trying to cover truth so maybe Michale is taking a break. Did you notice he removed his profile and comments? Right when it was being pointed out that all the disinfo he was dishing out was never backed by links or any other sources. It figures. Maybe he gave up and went away or is using another name because so many were on to him? I hope what I want to post is allowed. This matter is so important. So many are suffering. So many innocent have died or been maimed. Little children and babies, my God, why is this allowed? This will end soon because not only are some in our media speaking up and reporting fact & truth but in Israel a few in media are too. Just like our own citizens here who've awakened to the big picture as to what's been going on, so are Israel's good people finally speaking out, too.

[chaos4700]

Michale who? :D
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/users/profile/Michale32086

[MagisterLudi]

Hazzer asked:"Explain how democracy works in this case of muslims and chirstians. "
Explaining. Take notes:
Lesson:
Nawaf Massalha, Muslim Israeli -, has served as Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, since 199
Raleb Majadele -- Palestinian Israeli Government Minister (2007)
Abdul-Aziz Zoabi--Arab Deputy minister.
Majalli Wahabi--Palestinian Parliament Speaker.
Abdulmalik Dehamshe--­Palestinia­n Senior Parliament Speaker.
Hussniya Jabara---female Arab MP.
Tawfik Toubi-- Arab senior MP ( 41 years).
Colonel Hasson Hasson --brigadier general in IDF. Israeli president security adviser.
2 Palestinian Israelis--­Ambassador­s
Abd el-Amin Hajer --Lieutenant Colonel of IDF received the Order of Distinction for heroism.
2006 Haifa University pool:
62% of Arab citizens of Israel worry that Israel could transfer their communities to the jurisdiction of a future Palestinian state

[Freenation]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/09/israel-foreign-ministry-media

[skialethia]

Hasbara anyone?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/09/israel-foreign-ministry-media

[MagisterLudi]

quickly... skieletor..... when proven wrong.... Change the subject.... change the subject.....

[MagisterLudi]

OK, habib, can you dispute ONE fact I posted? I dare you.

[MagisterLudi]

Israel is a strong ally of the United States," said Obama. "They will not stop being a strong ally of the United States. And I will continue to believe that Israel's security is paramount. But I also believe that there are Israelis who recognize that it is important to achieve peace. They will be willing to make sacrifices if the time is appropriate and if there is serious partnership on the other side."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/26/al-arabiya-obama-does-fir_n_161087.html
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2009/01/27/65087.html

[Freenation]

AIPAC is the one which is the real enemy, also to be noted maybe Israel is second to USSR whose citizens have been caught spying in USA (Pollard etc), ordinary Israelis are allies of USA because of community links but Israeli politicians are corrupt and opportunist:

Do read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIPAC_espionage_scandal

[JacksonJones]

Shocked there's gambling going on at Rick's eh? (here are your winnings, sir....)

puhleez......

[BubbaC33]

Other than Jonathan Pollard name one. And the Brits have had a number of spies arrested inside the US over the years.

[Fireslayer]

Herein is revealed the strategy of delay discussions and reframe the issues to make negotiations impossible. Isreal has this down to an art.

Israelis' right wing government has no intention of giving up an inch of land. It is not beyond possibility they will actually try to steal more land- not from the West Bank, but beyond the Jordan. Menachim Begin actually had designs on Jordan and even parts of Iraq where Judaism was born prior to their expulsion from Babylon. Fortunately he could never build support, even in his othewise war-happy inner circles.

But the key to obsturction of talks has always been pre-conditions. The IDF of course will accept no conditions. The IDF is aware that a near complete blockade in violation of international law and basic human decency makes any attempt at negotiation or long term cease fire impossible under the conditions they impose.

Lastly, in the complete dehumanization of Palestinians in general and vilification of Hamas in particular, it becomes easy to avoid recognizing a party for discussions. Hamas has many flaws and a regrettable and unhealthy hostility towards Israel, But it is IDF strategy to keep that hostility going and to point to their innane and inept attacks on Israel to justify their own slaughters and intransigence.

Both sides are being difficult, but the IDF is clearly the winner in obstructing talks.

[BubbaC33]

Israel has already given up more of the land gained in 1967 than it now holds. The land it does hold is legally and ethically a part of Israel, won during a defenisive war. When the West Bank was held by Arabs no Jews were allowed to worship at our holiest sites. This is not a practice of the Israeli government, people of all faiths are allowed to worship as they desire.
The IDF is a professional military organization and I am proud of my service to Israel.Compared to the military in any Arab nation the IDF has displayed a real restraint, a higher level of professionalism, and an ability to get the job done.

[MagisterLudi]

There's established, wildly successful and powerful state--Israel.
That state is in dispute with a group of stateless Arabs living in the territories partially controlled by Israel.
Most of the world ( even Arab) leaders has pretty much out of patience with Palestinian antics. That is why they're tightly controlled in, or outright barred from many ME states.
That's indisputable reality.

Now choices:

Palestinains can fight---and they WILL lose as they have been losing for decades--zero chance of a state.
OR
Palestinians can negotiate --in good faith like Jordanians and Egyptians. Excellent statehood chance.
R
Palestinains can engage in Gandhi like non-violent resistance-- excellent statehood chances.
Or
They can remain a stateless group controlled by Egypt, Jordan and Israel.

They are the choices, Everything else is empty talk..

[TruthSeeker2009]

Since when do Arab leaders represent the voice of Arabs in general.
I believe Arabs are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, as for the leaders of Arab country, I agree with you that they are pretty much out of patience, the reason though is that they are afraid of loosing their seat because some of the Arabs anger toward Israel started to turn towards these puppets leaders.

[MagisterLudi]

This is a reasonable response, Truthseeker,
Arab Are sympathetic to Palestinian cause. And why not. But Arab masses are being fed astonishing amounts of hallucinatory yAnti- Jewish and Anti-Israeli propaganda.
In exclusion of everything else.
I ASSURE you that you will not read in Islamic MSM that Kuwaitis ethnically cleansed about 400,000 Palestinains after the Desert Stom.
Not often you hear that Egypt and Joordan controlled W. Bank,. Gaza and J lem and did NOTHING for P-nians.
You will NOT read about Hama event when Syrians annihilated untold thousands of Lebanese, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_massacre
It is not often you read about astonishing human right abuses of Palestinians in Lebanon.
Think why?

[MagisterLudi]

Bottom line: If you replace one corrupt ruler, another one will come to power. What Arab world needs is democratic reform from within. By courageous Arabs who are willing to stand up to the religious and political oppression. Where are they?

[MagisterLudi]

I can ASSURE you Hamas will not bring peace to Palestinains with their actions. Regardless of what Israel does or doesn't not do.
Hamas wants war. Their sponsors Syria and Iran want war. Hamas is raising a new generation of warped and brainwashed children who are raised on dreams of war.
The results will be predictable-- no state for Palestinains in Gaza.
Perhaps military Egyptian control.. Like during 1947-1967 time.
In the end the world doesn't care about Palestinains.
Only about Palestinains under Israeli control.

[Freenation]

Yeah and IDF wants to shower flowers on Gazan's....

[JacksonJones]

I don't think they do. I think what they want is to stop being rocketed and otherwise attacked, which isn't that much to ask, really.

[MagisterLudi]

An unofficial poll among Palestinians shows that most would rather go back to Israeli or Egyptian control than live in the area controlled by Hamas. Of course, they wouldn't say that to a Western reporter.
Most of people just want to enjoy normal things in life-- Many P-nians now realize that this will never be possible under Hamas.
Palestinian joke:
How many Gazans will it take to put in the light bulb?
None. Under Hamas there will be no electricity.

[skialethia]

No one can believe a word you say anymore. People have a right to resist cr im es against humanity, oppression and apartheid. Check the history of the KLA in Kosovo and the ANC in South Africa. They too were resisting what H am as is resisting today, and they unfortunately had to use v i o lence to draw the world's attention to the inhumanity being imposed on their people.

[JacksonJones]

Sorry, no one has a right to target civilians (as Hamas does), no one has the right to seek to destroy a state (as Hamas does). Hamas isn't resisting, its attacking.

[MagisterLudi]

Ah, Skia so violence is the answer in your opinion.
So explain to me what did the unremitting violence got Palestinian Arabs?
Answer---NOTHING.
They're a stateless people and will remain so, unless they change their way.
And no amount of slogans will change that..
It's a peaceful state next to Israel, Egypt and Jordan or NOTHING.
Reality-- get acquainted with it,

[MagisterLudi]

"Neither the liberation of the Gaza Strip nor the liberation of the West Bank or even Jerusalem will suffice us. Hamas will pursue the armed struggle until the liberation of all our lands. We don't recognize the state of Israel or its right to hold onto one inch of Palestine. Palestine is an Islamic land belonging to all the Muslims."
-Dr. Mahmud al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza, August 18, 2005

"To hell with you all."
-Khalid al-Mish'al, leader of Hamas, speaking about German Chancellor Merkel's call for Hamas to recognize Israel, Al-Jazeera TV, February 3, 2006

"The Israelis have been warning you that this was coming if you continue your cross border rocket attacks. Egypt has been imploring you to stop firing rockets into Israel, but you ignored our words. We have been urging you to renew the cease-fire with Israel, but you refused. You have brought this upon yourselves. You are responsible for what is happening to the people of Gaza."
Egyptian Foreign Minister, Ahmed Aboul Gheit "

So opinions AND actions like this by Hamas have NOTHING to do with Gaza war. Right?
How oblivious can people get..
When Palestinians decide to live in a small state alongside Israel, they will have state.
Until then --- ZERO chance.
Get used to it.

[Freenation]

Hasbara brigade: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/09/israel-foreign-ministry-media

[JacksonJones]

Interesting link, I suppose, but that initiative was announced publicly by Israel when it was established (as the piece you cite confirms). Not quite sure what your objection is. Facts are facts regardless of who prompts them to be diseminated. Truth is not established by majority vote.

[Freenation]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123362422088941893.html

This article is just amazing...it is sad Daniel pearl was brutally murdered but the article penned by his father is just like fresh piece of bread coming out from neocon factory. He bashes Carter, Bill Moyer and all others who 'rightfully' justified Gaza killings plus some other arguments like killing of a girl by some radical Palestinian while conveniently leaving killing of 22+ Palestinians by Jewish settler and current crisis in which 750+ civilians were killed...If Daniel Pearl was killed brutally this does not mean whole IDF's despicable actions will be excused...This is a sad article and WSJ of course publishes it...

[Amomma]

Freenation, this is a moving article. A clear voice in all of this. Thank you.

[MagisterLudi]

Where was the anger by Arabs when two Palestinian schoolgirls were killed in Gaza when Hamas rockets meant for Israeli schoolgirls misfired?

[Freenation]

Of course you witnessed it...MegaPhones updates are complete I presume...

[MagisterLudi]

"this does not mean whole IDF's despicable actions will be excused."
But then you're excusing the despicable action of Hamas, repeatedly and vociferously.

[chaos4700]

False dichotomy. Condemning the crimes of Hams does not preclude condemning the crimes of Israel. If Israel's crimes are decried more loudly, I dare say it's because there are more of them and they are more atrocious.

[Freenation]

MagisterLudi: "But then you're excusing the despicable action of Hamas, repeatedly and vociferously."

Really do point me where I am HAILING Hamas...this is how it goes right..first deception, second deception, third deception if nothing works start throwing mud....Show me one post of your where you are criticizing despicable actions of IDF instead of supporting the thugs...

Speak TRUTH....Hear TRUTH..Life will be beautiful!!!

[Macready]

"The resulting perpetual humiliation and dependency, one assumes, is part of Israel's strategic plan."

sure looks like it .. .so happy to see a critical article about israel . . . israel thinks it is above the law . . . israel it top of the league tables on human rights offences, it repeatly builds illegal settlements, it is sitting on nuclear weapons and it isn't even a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, it has its own "berlin wall" and hey that is ok . . it's israel . . . when will the international community stop excusing israel's horrific crimes . . . when will our Congress stop supporting this zionist regime??? what does it take to wake people up . . . if any other country had committed these crimes there would be outrage . . . such hypocrisy is truly sickening

[MagisterLudi]

when will our Congress stop supporting this zionist regime???
As long as Israel remains what it is: a democratic country with most freedom of ANY ME country: for its Jewish,. Muslims, Christian and atheist citizens:
USA will continue to support Israel and oppose the oppressors of their own citizens like Hamas, Syria and Iran.
Deal with it.

[chaos4700]

Really? And how fast are we overturning Mubarak's corrupt regime? How loudly are we calling for the toppling of the Saudi monarchy?

[Hasur]

You do know, as ALL israelis do, that 93% of Israel is state owned land, administered by The Jewsih National Fund and Jewish Agency, neither of which sell to non-jews or accept non-jews in housing projects or communities.

Explain how democracy works in this case of muslims and chirstians.

LEARN THEN POST!