24's Kiefer Sutherland Insists On Distinction Between Television And Reality

Kiefer Sutherland, star of terrorporn fantasia 24, was recently interviewed by the London Guardian, and asked to account for the show's depictions of torture in terms of the effects they've had on national security policy. To his credit, Sutherland gamely attempts to assert that there's some sort of distinction to be made between fiction and reality:

"First off, I'm just going to tell you outright, the problem is not 24. To try and correlate from what's happening on a television show to what the military is doing in the real world, I think that's ridiculous." Does he mean he doesn't believe the reports of 24's influence? "Well I haven't read all those reports. But if that's actually happening, then the problem that you have in the US military is massive. If your ethics in the military, in your training, is going to be counterminded by a one-hour weekly television show we've got a really big problem." His growl grows heavy with contempt. "If you can't tell the difference between reality and what's happening on a made-up TV show, and you're correlating that back to how to do your job in the real world, that's a big, big problem."

Yes. This is an epochal breakthrough in elementary existentialism. Or maybe not, considering how much Sutherland has invested in the "reality" of his character:

"Jack Bauer," he asserts, "is to me an apolitical character." Really? "Well, can you tell me if Jack Bauer is a Democrat or a Republican?" I would say he's clearly a Republican. "Absolutely not!" Sutherland flashes back triumphantly. "Not a chance." Why not? "Because I'm not a Republican, and I created the character."

Ultimately, the whole exchange leaves Sutherland's interlocutor mightily confused ("...I wonder if I'd half forgotten myself that Sutherland isn't a Pentagon official, or a politician, but an actor."), neatly presaging the psychotic break that Sutherland's assertions are sure to inspire in the torture fans of the wingnutosphere. So, on balance, upside.

Comments

[django707]

Oh, it's just a show!?! I wasn't sure.

Because the populace seems to be so very astute at discerning the difference between symbol (fiction) and reality (non-fiction).

Jack Bauer is a symbol. He gives meaning to a belief system. This is more powerful than an apologist's explanation that, "it's just a tv show."

Reality and fiction have little value in the debate over belief systems.

An atheist could argue that Jesus Christ is just a symbol. A Christian would counter that millions of followers attest to the truth of his existence (although there is no empirical proof).

But there is no denying that religious icons have very profound effects on their followers.

Jack Bauer is an icon. He gives meaning to the belief of a dominant American point-of-view. That point-of-view informs the validity of torture and an aggressive foreign policy.

Perhaps, in fifteen hundred years, fanatical followers will view Jack Bauer as a great warrior/prophet of early 21st century America. Stranger things have happened.

Merely a television character?

Hardly.

[pjones006]

Bauer --- > Jesus. Yet another reason not to get too plugged into religion.
So is your issue with the show or the intelligence of the viewing public? Of course some people will find their own way of justifying their belief in something even if they have to make it up themselves.

[django707]

My issue is that there is no such thing as "just a show."

It's not so much that the intelligence of the viewing public is so... wanting. It is that it is important to understand how modern propaganda works.

These shows are affirmations of American superiority. They are not harmless fun.

We have not lived in an era of harmless fun since gentlemen rode oversized bicycles on their dates to the tune of "casey was waltzing the strawberry blonde."

Shows that don't necessarily affirm our national superiority, work a more insidious propaganda: they lull us to sleep. And in our dulled state of "harmless fun" we nap as our world slips from our hands.

But the ultimate way that modern propaganda works is by co-opting. Think back to how Springsteen's classic of misguided American foreign policy became the Reaganomic anthem, "BORN IN THE USA!"

Take a look at the BBC documentary "happiness machines" on you tube. Nothing that goes into the unconscious is "harmless fun."

We've just been told it is.

And aren't we obedient.

[k6007]

Wow....Just....wow..

[shel3364]

I think you just proved his point.

Its just a show.

[CarlyS119]

Captain Kirk's an icon, too. I don't see anyone buying tickets to leave on the Enterprise. How about we let grown ups learn the difference between a dramaitcally told TV show and how they should behave. Did you jump off the roof because Superman could do it?

[kasinca]

He should have told the Bush Crime Family. It might have saved some lives.

[sinpareil]

One of my professors told me that many of the students in her Human Rights seminar who were in favor of torture used 24 as an example of how torture is useful in interrogations. Television influences people, even if you don't intend it.

[cowman]

People, yes. Policy and procedures, it really shouldn't.

If it did shouldn't the pentagon be investing in superheroes?

[racetoinfinity]

It shouldn't, but it gives the fascists public docility and consent to pursue their torture policies.

[DoomtoNeoCons]

And the Attack of the Tro ll's begins....NOW!

[beckpod1]

Which is more disturbing......24 which is confined to keep their reality within the fictional story....or...Fox News which slants reality into fictional political garbage? And 24 doesn't glorify torture and when it does use torture...there is a timeline of a ticking bomb. 24 glorifies technology and trying to do the right thing regardless of politics...something our boys(and girls)on the hill never seem to understand!
That's why 24 is so good...we have good people trying to do the right thing!

[InspiredByTruth]

24=social conditioning

The show is entirely unrealistic. Every episode features an imminent crisis which only Bauer's miraculous torture skills can save. In EVERY ONE of those instances where the person is tortured to confess, why is it always 100% accurate information? Under torture, a person telling a lie is just as convincing as one telling the truth - which is why its so ineffective in the real world.

Between Bauer's constant torture antics and the "Saw" movies (whose release coincided with the Iraq war), you have the neocons recipe for social conditioning, to take the "sting" out of torture.

[ivyj]

I used to love 24, but starting a couple of seasons ago, the right-wing politics and "pro-torture" stance of the producers/writers became so obvious I couldn't take it anymore.

This season I thought, maybe the writers have mended their ways, seeing that the mood of the country has so obviously changed. Maybe the show is back to being just a good, suspenseful thriller. I decided to give it another chance. Unfortunately, Jack's little speech at the beginning in which he justifies and refuses to apologize for his past use of torture could have been written by Dick Cheney. Sorry, I had to shut it off, and won't be watching it again.

Nice to hear Keifer's not a republican. Maybe he could use his fame for some good at some point.

[eahce]

Thanks for clearing that up for us Keifer.

[Opt1musPr1me]

No Mr. Sutherland. Everyone knows Hollywood steals from reality.

[cowman]

Yes, the more based in reality a show is the better it tends to be but it is still fiction. Hollywood taking from reality is good, reality taking from Hollywood is foolish and stupid.

[C IH8U2]

You mean 24 is not a Reality TV Show?????????????????????


But, But, But I thought it was like Cops only "Agent Style". **wink wink**
The Bill O'Ranter said so!!! :-D

[oregonbird]

A little late to the party, Keif. A 'TV vs. Reality' statement -- this one, maybe? -- should have been delivered the day after the Republican Party used YOUR show to try to excuse criminal acts. By not denouncing their agenda, and pointing out, quite rightly, that the torture and violence of your show is not meant to either imitate or subvert political morals, you left the reputation of your show in their hands.

You're intelligent enough to have realized that. Hitting the snooze alarm at the time proves that you did not see anything wrong in the Republican view of torture. And trying to rewind doesn't work without a VCR.

[cowman]

Perhaps he doesn't watch everything the GOP does. He IS Canadian afterall.

[CarlyS119]

What's going to be your next post... blaming George Reeves for playing Superman. Here's a newsbreak for you... Kiefer Sutherland is NOT responsible for all the weak minds in the world and what they want to blame things on. He's played a serial killer, a hitman, and AIDS victim, a cop and an FBI agent, too. Care to share your bright theories about what he's to blame fo in society for each of those roles?

FYI... James Earl Jones does not cruelly rule the universe either.

[protagonia]

Tell that to all the goons that think it is okay to torture.

[DRaymond]

Well, maybe those in the inteligence services understand the difference between reality and TV. However it was very clear from the way in which the Bush Administration and the neocons tried to justify their torture plans with 'ticking time bomb' scenarios that they felt they could convince the american public that there are real-life Jack Bauers who needed to be able to do those things in order to save the day.

It isn't that 24 influence the inteligence community, it was that 24 was used to sell the american people on it.

[pjones006]

Yeah right, pretty ingenious using a TV show to sell the American public. Fortunately that only works on faux news viewers and no one else.

[noam4prez]

It actually works on lots and lots of people. Also, other shows do the same kind of persuasion, usually a little more subtly. The same thing goes for news shows. They mostly do the same kind of social manipulation as Fox tries to do, only more subtly.

[MJinCanada]

Fiction, theatre and music all have great influence on what we think and do, because any ideas and concepts can be put forward in a metaphorical way. As thinking people, we can appreciate the entertainment value as well as consider the concepts and ideas and reject the ones that do not appeal to us.

Arthur C. Clarke gave us communications satellites.

Charles Manson was the only one who didn't understand that "Happiness Is a Warm Gun" was a sexual metaphor.

[ItsTooLate]

A few years ago fiction author Michael Crichton was invited to the Bush White House to discuss with Bush himself the "hoax" of global climate change as portrayed in Crichton's book "State of Fear". Scientists who have devoted their entire careers to studying climatic changes would never stand a chance of being heard, but an author who makes stuff up and who says what the those in authority want to hear? Well, they'll listen to him all day.

So, no, it doesn't surprise me in the least that a fictional TV show could or would influence government or military policy and actions.

[robXdion]

Yeah, because in reality he would get stomped like a used cigarette. Seriously, he's what? a 5'10 and a buck 70 running around like he's a combination of Chuck Norris, John Rambo, and Kaiser Sorze??? Keifer has been doing this teenage toughguy thing for a little too long. You gotta have more than a gravelly baritone in the real world.

[LaSirene]

Ran into Mr. Sutherland years ago in Santa Fe. He was in line in front of me at a concession stand at a James Taylor concert. I am 5'6" and he was at least 2 if not 4 inches shorter than me.

He has certainly made a good living as Jack Bauer but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that FOX programming is definitely "conditioning." 24 is the worst. I enjoyed the 1st season but it became crystal clear after that that it was little more than political programming.

Anybody who can't see that is an idiot. The only people I know anymore who bother to watch 24 are hardcore fans who also are hardcore Repubs and who support the use of torture.

THAT'S REALITY.

[pjones006]

Its tough to produce a hit show but to be able to slip in the conspiracy of political programming too. Darn, making me think a women or a black man(twice) can become president, what was I thinking. I would beg to differ with you on one other point, I wouldn't say idiot but I would say anyone who believes that it is political programming is probably a little too gullible and shouldn't watch TV.

P.S.I take offense to being called any kind of republican especially hardcore and I, for one, do not support torture in any way, shape or form.

[CarlyS119]

Well, here's an FYI for you. I'm a liberal, I've watched it from the start and loved it and it stars folks who are as liberal as it gets. You see.. however, those are people intelligent enough to tell fiction from real life. AS for the rest of them who can't, that's NOT the show's problem, it's theirs. If you want to believe that you can sail off a building and live and you're old enough to be wearing a Federal ID or a uniform to make a living, here's your blue jammies and jump. You won't be able to fly and you don't get to blame tv for your personal stupidity either.