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Health Benefits For Unemployed Stripped From Stimulus, HuffPost Readers Find

First Posted: 03/07/09 05:12 AM ET Updated: 05/25/11 02:05 PM ET

Whitehouse

Reading even a single page of a Senate bill is often no simple task, with legislative-ese obscuring the purpose behind the language. Reading 736 pages of the stuff is like mountain climbing in a wheelchair.

So we outsourced the work to Huffington Post readers: 367 people responded to the call and signed up to read portions of the Senate stimulus bill, compare it to the House bill passed earlier, and look for anything else interesting or newsworthy in it. Hundreds more posted their finds in the comments section below the full text of the bill. Responses that came in earlier are featured here.

The readers who signed up brought varying degrees of expertise to the project. One reader, who wanted to stay anonymous, is a consultant who works with the Department of Defense doing facilities and infrastructure assessments to determine the need for just the kinds of projects included in the section of the bill he read. Another, Tim Dickinson, is a politics reporter for Rolling Stone. Dickinson quickly found that the Senate had increased funding for STD prevention to $400 million. (Senate Republicans found that appalling and have succeeded in stripping it from the bill.)

Citizen journalism is still in its infancy and there will be many more opportunities around budget time to dig through congressional and presidential products. If you were one of the hundreds of people who contributed -- or signed up to, but didn't end up having time -- let us know where the kinks are. How could it have been smoother?

To join the team for the next round of research, sign up here.

The sifters found some noteworthy nuggets in the bill. Combing through his section of the bill, law professor and health care author Timothy Jost noticed that the Senate had removed the House provision that would allow people 55 and over who are laid off to continue COBRA coverage until they're 65 and eligible for Medicare. The House version also made folks who were laid off temporarily eligible for Medicaid; the Senate version strips that out, Jost found. Every one percent increase in unemployment throws more than a million people into the ranks of the uninsured.

Our Pentagon consultant broke the spending differences into a spreadsheet and also found a nugget in the bill giving Filipino World War II veterans $198 million. His find highlights what citizen journalists are capable of. His item had yet to be reported when he e-mailed it Tuesday evening; between then and now, the L.A. Times broke the story. So we cost our guy a scoop. Our apologies. We'll get it next time.

Still, his analysis is worth sharing. He said that his "pork-o-meter went off" and he did some rough math. "For U.S. citizens, [the payment is] $15,000 a head and for non-citizens it's $9,000 a head. Considering that there are only 1.6 million Filipinos in the U.S. and only 30 percent of those are over the age of 55, and to qualify you would have to be at least 78 years old, the lion's share of this money would be going to non-citizens. This will not create jobs or stimulate the economy," he wrote.

Diane Szilagy, whose expertise is in the energy and information technology fields, broke her section into a comparison chart you can see here.

Jost, the law professor, noticed that a crucial word had been added to the Senate bill's health care section. The House had appropriated $700 million for health care "comparative effectiveness research." Finding what health care approaches are most cost effective is a key to reducing those costs, but opponents of such research see it is a first step toward rationing care -- not that we don't ration care already, in a different way -- and health care companies oppose it because it could cut into profits.

Jost noticed that the word "clinical" was inserted into the Senate package so that the money would only go to study the clinical effectiveness of treatment, not cost effectiveness.

The website Medical Devices Today, the voice of the medical device industry, had been pushing for the change. "We need a clear statement in the language of the bill that it would fund clinical comparative effectiveness, not cost comparative effectiveness, and that the studies will not be used for national coverage determinations," it quoted AdvaMed Senior Executive VP David Nexon as saying last week.

CORRECTION: An earlier version of this article said that the House version would allow laid-off workers 55 and over to be eligible for subsidized COBRA healthcare coverage until they reach the age of 65. The House version, in fact, allows for unsubsidized COBRA coverage during that period.

UPDATE: WashingtonWatchdog.com ran a contest among its folks to find the best and worst stuff in the stimulus. The awards are out.

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Reading even a single page of a Senate bill is often no simple task, with legislative-ese obscuring the purpose behind the language. Reading 736 pages of the stuff is like mountain climbing in a wheel...
Reading even a single page of a Senate bill is often no simple task, with legislative-ese obscuring the purpose behind the language. Reading 736 pages of the stuff is like mountain climbing in a wheel...
 
 
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12:05 PM on 02/09/2009
Tell me if I'm wrong, but since the House and Senate bills are different they must go to conference, and this is where the Repugs use to do their real dirty work. Like not letting the Dem's know where the conference was being held, and if one should happened to show up any way not letting them in. Subsequently the bill goes back to the respective branches where they can only be voted up or down, and none of the rules regarding debate apply. So this is where a lot of the stuff removed from the bill by the Senate can be put back in, and a lot of the stuff (tax cuts and such) can be removed. Just don't let them in the door. They can complain about nothing.
12:23 PM on 02/05/2009
A bill this big? A bill this complex? A bill this involved? Lots of loopholes, lots of earmarks, lots of vagarities.
Just what we'd expect from Washington.
Mr. Obama- this is a travesty. You are supposed to be stopping these old practices, not endorsing them.

By the way, for those of you blubbering about the concept of welfare: guaranteeing people health care creates jobs! No only in the healthcare industry, but in the plethora of industries that support it. And, with people well enough to work, they can occupy those jobs. And with people working, they're paying taxes, which goes back into these "evil evil welfare" programs.
Stop being so d8mn obstinant and look at the big picture!!
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
MossyOak
11:37 AM on 02/05/2009
I was one of the volunteers who signed up to read. I haven't finished... it's hard and time consuming. But heh, I was laid off so it's not like I don't have the time.

I agree with other posters, however, that the bill is WAY too long. Of course if it was broken up then each section would have to be discussed and voted on, but at least SOMETHING would get started. Maybe. But having citizens combing through it has brought us the realization that these bills are full of cr@p that gets stuck between the teeth of the thing so that no one will see them. This is Congress at its worst. Truthfully, I think it's a mess.
07:33 PM on 02/05/2009
Try this Spread sheet of the house versions:

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9976/hr1aspassed.pdf
10:54 AM on 02/05/2009
You don't need no stinkin health benefits if you're unemployed. Just load it onto those who stil HAVE jobs, and their companies.
Typical Republican short-sighted thinking.
10:18 AM on 02/05/2009
Health care reform needs to cover all Americans. Any changes should be part of that effort not this stimulus bill.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
1088
10:17 AM on 02/05/2009
The President is learning that when you create a recipe for success, you never other cooks for input. Big mistake!!
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09:38 AM on 02/05/2009
It's taken 350+ people to review this thing? Does ANYONE in Congress understand the whole thing?

When bills become this huge, they strike me as incredibly dangerous! As a software engineer, this is scary. I know how hard it is to get things right when things get big and complex.

"Quick, Fast, Good - You can have two out of three"
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jcwtts1
Elections have consequences
10:31 AM on 02/05/2009
nah, these people do this for a living. They have staffers read and summarize.

J
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
RRuin
09:27 AM on 02/05/2009
I'm waiting for Obama to fully accept that the Republicans have no interest in being bipartisan.
their only interest is in being obstructionists who will stop all progress in this country.
They were voted out. Let them sit on the sidelines and whine, but stop trying to appease them.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MNTom
10:39 AM on 02/05/2009
I don't see that Happeneing.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
SunnyT
09:17 AM on 02/05/2009
Congratulations and many thanks to HuffPo and HuffPo readers! Awesome work!

I like the proposal to subsidize COBRA coverage for workers 55 and older when they're laid off. I suppose that it had to be removed because it's too much like helping people (OMG! Welfare! Socialism! Strip it!).

I have a question:

In the 8 years of the Bush-Cheney regime, did they or Congressional Republicans propose or advocate or support any legislation to provide or expand health care, or to curb health care costs?

Thanks!
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
JimR
09:32 AM on 02/05/2009
I don't have a problem with subsidizing COBRA coverage, or some of the other proposals. But it does NOT belong in this bill, which was supposed to be a short-term stimulus package aimed solely at job creation. Instead, it has morphed into an obscene, out-of-control, malignant growth that needs to DIE. Scrap this obnoxious piece of excrement and start from scratch.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
SunnyT
09:48 AM on 02/05/2009
That's the dilemma. More healthcare coverage is needed for new millions of uninsured people losing their jobs and insurance, but it won't be supported by Republicans. As HuffPo reported yesterday, there's Republican talk to shoot down the stimulus so it will be easier to shoot down a healthcare bill. Democrats obviously knew they wouldn't have the support for any increase in healthcare coverage, so they incuded it in the stimulus bill.

But I think you're right - the stimulus bill needs to be clean and ... stimulating, all about economic recovery and nothing else. Let healthcare be a separate issue.
10:07 AM on 02/05/2009
I know. I am sick and tired of everyone treating this recovery package like a federal budget. I think that subsidizing COBRA is a bad idea anyway. Why not just let folks over 55 who lost their jobs join medicare early. If it turns out to be more cost efficient then it could be used as further justification for H.R. 676. That would be better than lining the big insurance companies pockets for COBRA.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
nana4g
11:33 AM on 02/05/2009
No. Bush funded the creation of these satellite clinics, "Doc In The Boxes", and thought that would help. Of course, to use them you have to have cash or insurance or Medicaid or Medicare....That kind of move "stimulated" big business and helped corporations, but it did not improve access or coverage for people. The Medicare Part D prescription plan was passed during Bush Admin. However, this plan is through private insurers who underwrite it for Medicare and it is designed to benefit the insurance companies, allowing a "donut hole" or "gap" after a certain amt is spent, then, the insured is on their own paying 100% out of pocket and continuing to pay the monthly premium until they reach another limit. So, basically, the big insurance companies have another product to sell with which they actually make profits at the expense of the insured. These Part D plans are not allowed to negotiate with drug companies, either, for costs, so, that helps the drug companies. The consumer is at the bottom of this feed trough.
08:59 AM on 02/05/2009
Midnight addition by the senate - 50 bllion dollar loan guarantees for nuclear energy.

50 billion dollars !!!!!!!!!!
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
PWM
Eisenhower Republican. Liberalism = Liberty
08:40 AM on 02/05/2009
The dems are deluding themselves if they think the republicans will support them. The Republicans are against the very idea of empowering the poor or putting money into the pockets of the working man - it is part of their ideology. I will be very surprised if Obama gets any Republican votes in the Senate.

GOP: Gross Old Party
08:44 AM on 02/05/2009
I agree they have a failed ideology and they continue to hold us back. American's who have never felt the sting of poverty and lack of medical care are going to experience it now. That empty short-sighted Regan era rhetoric is not going to help them and they are going to be angry about being screwed over for so long.
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Soulsurfer
Solar Electrician,Longtime Surfin'Fool
08:56 AM on 02/05/2009
Absolutely. They've become more and more obvious about it, and people are finally starting to catch on.
08:39 AM on 02/05/2009
Nancy Pelosi should never be in charge of drafting a single piece of legislation. As a conservative Democrat who also believes in Barack Obama, she handed him a trou.bled bill from the beginning. Obama was at a disadvantage with an economic crisis on his hands but no inauguration to give him the presidential power he needed when this bill was being formulated. But given the goofi.ness of both Pelosi and Reid, Obama should introduce his own legislation from here on out. Pelosi, in particular, should be locked in a sound.proof room. I don't usually get this petty but she even LOOKS like she's on another planet. Facial expressions say it all.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
THISTLE
11:32 AM on 02/05/2009
Totally agree with you on this and on Pelosi.
She is a disaster and looks like she is "on another planet."
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
nana4g
11:59 AM on 02/05/2009
I think Obama has figured that out. I really do. She is doing things "the old way" and he will reign her in.
08:31 AM on 02/05/2009
Here's what I think the Dems should do strip these things out of the bill see if they get bipartisan support I wont hold my breath on that but make it a lean bill that will create jobs and jumpstart the economy. Then in 2010 we can start thinking about things like expanding healthcare and other non stimulus things that were stripped off the bill republicans would have no leg to stand on and considering how far Obama went to court them with the stimulus when they cry that they are being left out the American people will just roll their eyes. Let them have this stimulus bill make it focus on job creation investment in energy efficiency and indepdence then when we get the seats IGNORE the GOP.

Its sad that Obama makes a party thats Persona nongrata feel like they have a say and of course like typical republicans you give them an inch and they take the whole cake. Now let them pay the price IGNORE them.

Carol
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
nana4g
12:04 PM on 02/05/2009
My sentiments exactly! I so agree with you. Many of my posts re healthcare access are meant to help us understand the existing system of healthcare and how to provide for yourself if you find yourself unemployed, with no coverage, and needing care, in the absence of any temporary assist from the govt, such as Medicaid. We have to take care of ourselves and not panic. In the last couple of days, I see President Obama becoming more firm and confident; I think he is catching on to the dysfunction of Republicans. Olympia Snow, Susan Collins, are reasonable and smart. If the Republican Party were more like they are, I could have more respect for them and their opposing views, but, they are not.
08:21 AM on 02/05/2009
The problem is that too many items were added to the stimulus bill that are not stimulus.
If you're going to create a bill to stimulate the economy it should be a bill that does just that, otherwise it should have a different name.
Everything in the bill is worthy, it's just in the wrong bill.
The democrats did a disservice to President O when they created this stimulus bill and added everything but the kitchen sink - redo the bill with only true stimulus items andit will get passed.
Never give the republicans a chance to outsmart you, but sadly, thats what they did.
Now our president will suffer the consequences because the democrats are taking advantage.
REWRITE THE BILL!!!
08:33 AM on 02/05/2009
These are real issues faced by Americans losing their jobs. It may not fit in with the theme of the bill-but it is desperately needed by the Americans losing everything. The fact that the Republicans are grandstanding on this issue is unconscionable to those suffering. I think in the long run the Republicans gain nothing by opposing a benefit to their constituents-it will be remembered at voting time for many years to come. Even former Republican voters feeling the sudden weight of these issues on their shoulders are greatly upset about this and are hoping that it is passed in the near future in some other sort of bill.
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08:52 AM on 02/05/2009
Can't these "REAL ISSUES" be taken up in another bill? Parent planning was stripped from the bill by the House using the justification that it was not related to stimulatng the economy. That is true of any number of parts of the remaining bill. I don't see the necessity of overloading it just because people are in deparate need. Let's pass the stimulus bill and go to work on a desparate need bill.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LARRYB28
10:36 AM on 02/05/2009
why is it grandstanding to oppose a stimulus bill that will not provide much stimulus and is filled with pork.look at the things cut out of this bloated bill since the republicans voiced their opposition.aid to hollywood ,aid to fillipian war vets.it may be that some of these isues need to be addressed but not buried in a massive stimulus package.obamas own advisor Lawrence Summers laid out what he thought would be smart guidelines for stimulus and this plan goes against each of his ideas.as we heard during the main part of the iraq war opposition is patriotic
07:39 AM on 02/05/2009
I was on the phone the other night trying to get support for my computer -- with Toshiba and Microsoft. Neither would help me. It was a Vista known issue (found this on Microsoft's site). They wanted to charge me a fee to fix their bug. Previously a software analyst/tester, you don't charge people to fix your bugs.

They were in the Phillipines. So is Verizon. So is RCN.

A lot of outsourcing is going to the Phillipines, and it IS THE WORST. They waste hours and hours of time on an issue and cannot fix it.

I seriously think we need to cut the Phillipines out of the loop here.

p.s. Fixed it myself.
11:11 AM on 02/05/2009
Um, this is an example of why America is in trouble. I don't know your age or how long you've been in America but call centers have been outsourcing for decades. Just an FYI, it's not just one country. Much of this has happened while Americans read about Hollywood and watch sitcoms on TV. Nothing will change until Americans wakeup and participate in their country.