Ohio Republican Admits FDR Did Not Cause The Depression

One of the talking points that the GOP has attempted to deploy in the battle over the stimulus package is, "Hey! Remember that New Deal dealie? Boy, howdy, wasn't that a massive failure!" Oooh, oooh! And what if the Nazis had gotten the bomb? Then we'd be in some serious doo-doo, tra-la-la!"

Anyway, freshman Representative Steve Austria heard that talking point and decided that it could be made way awesomer. And in an environment where his colleagues are playing fast and loose with the facts, who can blame him? Still, I think this revision took things a step too far with the editors of the Columbus Dispatch:

The day before, as Austria was explaining his opposition to the huge federal stimulus package backed by President Barack Obama, he told The Dispatch editorial board: "When Roosevelt did this, he put our country into a Great Depression. ... He tried to borrow and spend, he tried to use the Keynesian approach, and our country ended up in a Great Depression. That's just history."

Austria said he gave that message via telephone to constituents at a recent town-hall meeting.

Uhm, yeah. That led the Dispatch to point out that "Roosevelt took office in March 1933. Many historians date the Depression from the stock-market crash later dubbed Black Tuesday, which happened in 1929."

And so, Austria had to get back on point:

"I did not mean to imply in any way that President Roosevelt was responsible for putting us into the Depression, but rather was trying to make the point that Roosevelt's attempt to use significant spending to get us out of the Depression did not have the desired effect. Roosevelt did not put us into the Depression, but rather his policies could not pull the nation out of the recession."

I guess now is as good a time as any to offer Austria the chance to familiarize himself with what the New Deal accomplished, via the handy graph Rachel Maddow deployed Monday night:

That's just history!

Comments

[Iscarius]

The Disaster Called the New Deal:

http://mises.org/story/3234

[kenwg]

Mises.org? That group of knuckle draggers? Their whole economic philosophy is based on Say's Law, a long-ago refuted nostrum used by the right to legitimize the concentration of wealth into the hands of the few. These guys are just a bunch of latter day John Birchers. Be serious...

[timetorevolt]

Not surprising..Rethugs hate education..so he probably spent more time studying the bible and learning hate rather than study american history...

[workturtle]

The use of the term Rethugs sounds hate to me. There's nothing wrong with having a moral standard or moral courage timetorevolt. Do you have a point to make on american history?

[desertman]

I agree it is an insulting term. Not PC at all. I thought we were past this.

[Agent420]

One thing we do not need in this stimulus bill is tax cuts. The rich will either put their money in the off shore bank or spend it in France. The tax cut for the little guy will be a couple of bucks a week. He will spend it on a beer and say, "Thanks, Obama, but this won't pay my rent."

[macjon]

.
Tax cuts will be of absolutely NO help for those that have lost their jobs.
.

[zanzig]

So true. This is the point that everyone seems to have forgotten. That tax cuts only apply if you have any tax to pay; that is, if you have an income that attracts tax.

[blurredtruth]

The depression did start under Hoover so this should have been done. I'm still awaiting to hear this is worst situation since the civil war and the plan will create 100m jobs. Just a matter of time and the nose just keeps on growing.

[Articulator]

There is no one policy that fits all. When the economy is about to collapse we need spending somewhere and tax cuts at this point would just take money out of the economy - all taxes collected are spent (and more unfortunately), there is no big matress in the basement of the treasury with all the tax money stuffed in it. Tax cuts will not necessarily be spent. When the economy is moving, we need to cut back on govt spending. The economy is like a big structure built with trusses, each member (teacher, doctor, plumber, ....) is interconnected in some way to each other. When part of the structure is rotted out, you need to prop it up until you can replace the rotted parts, otherwise the whole thing will collapse. Once it collapses, you have to start all over from the ground up and that could take decades and possibly generations. Tax cuts are like putting coat of paint on each piece which at this point will do nothing. The stimulus is only the propping up part, we need to find the fundamental causes and fix it.

[ResistanceisFutile]

Who elects these retards, anyway?

[jweider]

other retards, that's who

[workturtle]

Our goverment has been highjacked by the political elite (Dem and Rep) and the bankers and all we have to read is this article about the "New Deal." Eight hundred billion dollars! Please ask yourself where that money is coming from. We will never be able to pay it back... never!!! Remember also the Social Security (New Deal) has been plundered and we can't pay for that program either. Lastly, I do believe I heard President Obama say that he doesn't know if it's going to work(CNN). God help us if it doesn't.

[americanalien]

Are Republicans born re.tarded?

[pqn]

lol

[Ghostzapper]

VP Joe Biden said that FDR got on TV to tell Americans about the tough times..........

[thaneb]

Joe made a mistake. FDR got on the radio. And the people listened. And they were reassured. And they followed his advise, e.g. they put their money back in the banks. And your contribution, though factually correct, adds nothing.

[desertman]

We are a more cynical and jaded population. Joe may have been thinking of the newsreel footage. Maybe some put their money in the banks. My grandparents and neighbors left their money in the mattress.

[TheNoBullExpress]

He doesn't listen to himself is Joes deal. He's a great man. Biden was obviously around when TV was invented and surely knows the timeline

[workturtle]

I've never heard a true conservative say "The New Deal" caused the great depression. Although they will sat that it prolonged it. But then again I don't listen to Fox News so i'm not sure what they're saying nor do I listen to freshman reps from far off states. What true consertatives and Libertarians blame the great depression on is printing money.

Point's for you to look into remembering that President Clinton pushed programs that forced banks to give loans to subprime borrowers and I do believe President Bush expanded it. This led to over borrowing(currency deflation), speculation and an asset bubble. 5/1 ARMS came do and everyone was trying to unload houses they couldn't afford in the first place. Speculators walked away from thier "investments" because, with zero down, they had nothing to lose. Assets became liabilities and it spiraled out of control. President Bush tried to fix it by spending and now President Obama is doing the same. An 800 page pork laiden bill that, despite promises of tranparency, is being passed through the system before you get a chance to see what's inside. Not that you would bother to look anyway.

The points:
Fractional Reserve Banking
The Gold Standard
The Federal Reserve Act

[MNmommy]

Ohio is a far off state?

[workturtle]

yes. but that's not the point. the point is that we live in ignorance and we don't hold our government accountable. spending like this was bad when President Bush did it and it's bad when President Obama does it. They're spending your money. They're vision of the future doesn't go beyond the next election.

[DuckButter]

Correct. Conservatives aren't saying he "caused" the Great Depression. Rather, he prolonged it. Hell, Hoover had some of the same policies with many of his public works projects (ever heard of the Hoover Dam?) and he tried everything under the sun.

What eventually got us through the Great Depression was World War 2.

FDR can be credited with getting us through WW2. But there's plenty of evidence to suggest his policies weren't exactly good for the economy.

Read Amity Schlaes. It's a great book. She started the book a few years so it's not like she just wrote it because she had an agenda.

[workturtle]

To Bernique
I dont even know who Rove is. Didn't know this was a spelling contest and I'm not a writer so it doesn't bother me at all. Thanks:)

To Duckbetter
Good points I enjoyed your comment and I will read the book.

[BillZBubb]

Amity Schlaes book is baloney. It is right wing cra - p. Anyone with a even minimum amount of intelligence can easily debunk every major claim she makes. Her main claim is that the stock market didn't recover to its 1929 levels until after WWII. Now, even a Republican ought to (ought to!) understand the stock market is not the economy. The '29 crash destroyed any confidence in the stock market. It wasn't Roosevelt's or the New Deal's objective to boost stock prices.

The facts clearly dispute any claim the New Deal didn't have very positive consequences for the economy. GDP recovered smartly. There were limits due to the fact the rest of the world was in worse shape. America couldn't do a worldwide New Deal.

As for Hoover, he did not "try everything under the sun". He was a conservative. He tried several half measures, but they were based primarily on the market. He failed miserably like most Republicans.

[bobwalters]

Except she did have an agenda -- the Wall St Journal & BushCo agenda -- and her conclusions have been shown to be incorrect and have been rebutted by several Nobel Laureates in Economics. She just cherry-picked her history sources. Lousy book!

[Bernique]

workturtle. -- please put your spectacles on before transcribing GOP/Rove talking points. The spelling is embarrassing.

[neutrino74]

Simply not correct. The far right keeps trying to push this load of horse hockey that forced lending to lower income people or minorities caused the mortgage crisis. Simply not true. Predatory lending practices and bundling of known bad loans into securities and having these rated AAA caused the crisis. People who qualified for and could have paid for simple 30 year fixed mortgages were steered into ARM and other mortgages with high commission fees for those writing the loans. Those writing the loans didn't care because they packaged the loans and sold them off. Throwing gas on the fire was the Bush administration tactic of reining in the state attorneys general from prosecuting predatory lending practices.

[workturtle]

True. When I purchased my house late 2007 they tried to steer me into an ARM. I could've purchased a much larger house with a ARM as many people did. I've never heard the right specifically refer to minority (they may have mentioned lower income) just people who couldn't afford what they were buying. "Predatory Lending" was a result not a cause it was the result of bad policy (started by Pres Clinton) and people not being able to pay thier mortgages had nothing to do with what the banks were doing with the loans behind the scenes. The fact is everyone said, "Let's take a second mortgage on the house and buy a suburban." They were going to unload those houses when the ARMS came due. What the heck property doesn't loose value! Does it? But the real problem came when the speculators walked away and left a flooded housing market. The chick or the egg? You did prove my points though: 1) AAA rated mortgage-backed securities became liabilities when they 2) bundled subprime loans together. How much the broker got paid doesn't matter. what does matter is that we keep pointing our fingers at the repubs or the dems but were not holding the goverment accountable.

[BethStuart]

Do the republicans really believe they can keep pushing voodoo economics onto a gullible public?

[desertman]

I get it. This is a rhetorical question.

[Flymast]

These Republicans are idiots and are not doing their research. Starting a week after the election I procedded to begin to read over 6 books about FDR and this period, including the Best Seller by Jonathan Alter. Along with Abraham Lincoln, FDR saved this country. The one thing I can learn from the readings are that the mistake FDR made was "putting on the spending brakes" in or around 1934-35 which was probably a mistake; however he did this to appease Republicans at the time. We did not begin to rise untile 1939 when the government, get this, was spending 39% of the GDP.

I think the thing to learn from all of this is when there is no confidence in the markets, consumer confidence is low, and there is no money flowing Government has to intervene and "stimulate" and create GDP growth to stope the spiral. So I hope this President does not make the same mistake FDR did by putting on the brakes.

[Halter]

Exactly right. The "R" in "republican" must stand for the "R" in "Revisionist" too.

[flatus]

Both Roosevelts rocked.
Isn't it funny that the Obstructionists seldom mention Theodore with pride? Could it be that he just did too dam.ned many good things for those without backyard tennis courts?

[ObjectiveRealist]

Their voters are idiots and not doing their research. The representatives are liars.

[luke150]

By the way, this is happening obviously everywhere. Republican pundits go to meetings and scare people with FDR type of depression. I have a Republican colleague who attended such meeting. She was terrified of how Obama will spend us into depression, just like FDR...

[SCG]

I guess they missed the Paulson "the sky is falling" I need $750bil no strings attached now, routine? Or the "Decider" on national television telling the country of our impending doom if we didn't comply.

Now it's Obama's fault.

Typical, republicans have no shame.

[Mikecoatl]

I think deep inside, the GOP is worried that Obama will spend us OUT OF a depression. If he is even halfway successful, it could be 20-30 years before a Republican sees the Oval Office again.

[Ghostzapper]

Nice Guess

[Skyhawk]

We can only hope.

[tcasper213]

Let us hope that it is a thousand years before ignorant, hypocritical morons are granted the privelege to lead.

[Bernique]

I think Obama will be successful, but we can't expect change overnight. One tactic is to let the Republican shibboleths run their course, and FAIL (and demolish the ideology), then strike with what the rest of the planet wants, a fair, and non-threatening U.S. of A.

[desertman]

Spends us out of depression only if we have takers for the debt.

[luke150]

When you run out of ideas, the only thing left is trying to discredit others' ideas and achievements. You can't expect more from folks who don't believe in evolution.

[spartanmom]

Machiavelli said you should attack your opponent's strengths.
That is what they did to Kerry with the Swiftboating campaign. That is the center of Rovian political thought.

So, whatever they are attacking is what they fear most will succeed

[luke150]

Well, Machiavelli didn't live in a representative democracy, so he didn't have to consider whom people will like and stand behind.
They will try to manipulate truth, history, present, everything, my hope is that the people will not be easily deceived this time. We'll live and see...

[neuron]

The best history lesson about the Depression? Talk to folk who lived through it, and see what they tell you. It's obvious this maroon slept through history class.

[midwesthousewife]

I sent him an email telling him to sponsor legislation requiring all congressmen to pass a test on American history and economic theory before they can make statements on these subjects to the public. I suggest others should write and complain about his ignorance on matters of such relevance at this time for our country.