Continental Crew Noted Significant Ice Build Up On Plane Right Before Crash

CAROLYN THOMPSON   02/13/09 09:50 PM ET   AP

Plane Into Home

BUFFALO, N.Y. — The crew of the commuter plane that fell on a house, killing all 49 people aboard and one person on the ground, noticed significant ice buildup on the wings and windshield just before the aircraft began pitching and rolling violently, investigators said Friday.

Officials stopped short of saying the ice buildup caused Thursday night's crash and stressed that nothing has been ruled out. But ice on the wings can interfere catastrophically with an aircraft's handling and has been blamed for a number of major air disasters over the years.

Continental Connection Flight 3407, bound from Newark, N.J., went down in light snow and mist _ ideal conditions for ice to form _ about six miles short of the Buffalo airport, plunging nose-first through the roof of a house in the suburb of Clarence.

All 44 passengers, four crew members, an off-duty pilot and one person on the ground were killed. Two others escaped from the home, which was engulfed in a raging fireball that climbed higher than the treetops and burned for hours, making it too hot to begin removing the bodies until around nightfall Friday.

Among the passengers killed was a woman whose husband died in the World Trade Center attacks of Sept. 11.

It was the nation's first deadly crash of a commercial airliner in 2 1/2 years.

One of the survivors from the house, Karen Wielinski, 57, told WBEN-AM that she was watching TV in the family room when she heard a noise. She said her daughter, 22-year-old Jill, who also survived, was watching TV in another part of the house.

"Planes do go over our house, but this one just sounded really different, louder, and I thought to myself, `If that's a plane, it's going to hit something,'" she told the station. "The next thing I knew the ceiling was on me."

She said she and her daughter escaped in their socks.

"I was panicking a little but trying to stay cool," she said. "I happened to notice a little light on the right of me. I shouted first in case anybody was out there. Then I just kind of pushed what was on top of me off and crawled out the hole. ... The back of the house was gone, the fire had started. I could see the wing of the plane."

She said she hadn't been told the fate of her husband, Doug, but added: "He was a good person, loved his family."

Investigators pulled the black box recorders from the wreckage, sent them to Washington and immediately began analyzing the flight data and listening to the cockpit conversations.

Steve Chealander, a spokesman for the National Transportation Safety Board, said at an afternoon news conference that the crew of the twin-engine turboprop discussed "significant ice buildup" on the windshield and the leading edge of the wings at an altitude of around 11,000 feet as the plane was coming in for a landing.

The flight data recorder indicated the plane's de-icing equipment was in the "on" position, but Chealander would not say whether the equipment was functioning.

The landing gear was lowered one minute before the end of the flight at an altitude of more than 2,000 feet, and 20 seconds later the wing flaps were set to slow the plane down, after which the aircraft went through "severe pitch and roll," Chealander said.

The crew raised the landing gear at the last moment, just before the recording ran out. No mayday call came from the pilot.

Doug Hartmayer, a spokesman for Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority, which runs the Buffalo airport, said: "The plane simply dropped off the radar screen."

"Icing, if a significant buildup, is an aerodynamic impediment, if you will," Chealander said. "Airplanes are built with wings that are shaped a certain way. If you have too much ice, the shape of the wing can change requiring different airspeeds."

But he refused to draw any conclusions from the data, and cautioned: "We are not ruling anything in or anything out at this time."

Witnesses heard the plane sputtering before it plunged squarely through the roof of the house, its tail section visible through the flames.

"The whole sky was lit up orange," said Bob Dworak, who lives less than a mile away. "There was a big bang, and the house shook." He added: "It looked like the house just got destroyed the instant it got hit."

William Voss, a former official of the Federal Aviation Administration and current president of the Flight Safety Foundation, a nonprofit advocacy group, said the plane's near vertical drop suggests that ice or a mechanical failure, such as wing flaps deploying asymmetrically or the two engines putting out different thrust, caused the crash.

After the crash, at least two pilots were heard on air traffic control circuits saying they had been picking up ice on their wings.

The 74-seat Q400 Bombardier aircraft, in the Dash 8 family of planes, was operated by Colgan Air, based in Manassas, Va. Colgan's parent company, Pinnacle Airlines of Memphis, Tenn., said the plane was new and had a clean safety record.

The pilot, Capt. Marvin Renslow, had been with the airline for nearly 3 1/2 years and had more than 3,000 hours of flying experience with Colgan, which is nearly the maximum a pilot can fly over that period of time under government regulations.

Flight 3407 is the first fatal crash of a commercial airliner in the United States since Aug. 27, 2006, when 49 people were killed after a Comair jetliner mistakenly took off from a Lexington, Ky., runway that was too short.

In general, smaller planes like the Dash 8, which uses a system of pneumatic de-icing boots, are more susceptible to ice buildup than larger commuter planes that use a system to warm the wings. The boots, a rubber membrane stretched over the surface, are filled with compressed air to crack any ice that builds up.

A similar turboprop jet crash 15 years ago in Indiana was caused by ice, and after that the NTSB recommended more aggressively using pneumatic de-icing boots. But the FAA has not adopted the recommendation. It remains on the NTSB's list of most-wanted safety improvements.

Clarence is a growing eastern suburb of Buffalo. The crash site was on a street of older, single-family homes about 20 to 25 feet apart.

___

Contributing to this report were Associated Press writers John Wawrow in Clarence, Linda Franklin in Dallas, Daniel Yee in Atlanta, Ron Powers in Washington, and Cristian Salazar, Jennifer Peltz and the AP News Research Center in New York.

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04:40 PM on 02/14/2009
From Wikipedia:

Michael L. Connell was subpoenaed regarding tampering with the 2004 U.S. Presidential election. He was killed in a plane crash on December 19, 2008 when his single-engine plane which he was flying, crashed in Lake Township, between 2.5 and 3 miles short of the runway.

Paul David Wellstone was a two-term U.S. Senator from Minnesota and a leading spokesman for the progressive wing of the national Democratic Party. He served in the Senate from 1991 until his death in a plane crash on 25 October 2002, 11 days before he was to stand in the midterm US senate election. His Beechcraft King Air A100 plane crashed into dense forest about two miles from the Eveleth airport,
03:14 PM on 02/14/2009
What is the name of the government organization that is like the Air Force's CIA?
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Carolab
Walking an 87-year-old in the sand isn't easy
03:20 PM on 02/14/2009
The NSA?
05:07 PM on 02/14/2009
I just called my friend to find out. The name is S t r a t e g i c A i r C o m m a n d or S A C. My friend's daughter dated a man who was involved with them and the CIA during the times of IranContra, seeing that they are still importing d rugs-- wherever the Bushes goes this always happens, and have access to things that can bring these vehicles down, and perhaps unfettered access to the FAA and inspecting flights, I suspect that the Bush influence is very great there. I have been told that they are crooked to the bone. Their daughter and boy friend would always have a million dollars cash on them at any one time. Her boyfriend ended up getting k illed "mysteriously." These fake stories about icing are disturbing.
02:04 PM on 02/14/2009
P1. Beverly Eckert was a passenger on this f light and was the only person to have a lawsuit about the event in NY as well was the head organizer of families who question about the way the event was handled and who was to blame. Another suspicious accident happened to Mike C onnell. What is the likelihood that two people who were both big thorns in the Bush administration's side should both be in p lane accidents in a matter of months of each other? I don't know the number of f lights of small planes in this country per day or how many f a t a l i t i e s there are of small planes within a given year, but I am sure the number of small p lane f lights is significant and that the likelihood of a f a t a l i t y to be low or people would not fly them with confidence. So, the chance of having an accident would have to be significantly small.
02:17 PM on 02/14/2009
And then there was the Shre veport den tist who went to the F B I shortly after 9 11 to tell them that they were wrong about the terro rists locations because he personally had met with two of them prior to 9 11. He was poiso ned, and while at the emer gency room F B I age nts showed up to tell docto rs and nurses that he was cra zy and sui cidal. His entire family and friends disa gree. They are still trying to bring his case to court.

http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=9688945
02:37 PM on 02/14/2009
Our presidencies since Carter have all been manure factories. Thank you for telling me about this. I was unaware of this. I like to fan people, because I like to get fanned. You have been fanned.
02:04 PM on 02/14/2009
I just read the transcript and listened to the audiotape. There was no mention of ice build up from the pilots. If they had significant ice-buildup, you would think they would mention it to the control tower. Reading blogs from a few pilots, even if the pilots didn't see the icing they would have felt it. It could be engine failure. I hope the NTSB investigates thoroughly. The victim's families deserve the absolute truth.
02:03 PM on 02/14/2009
P2.Let us say to be generous that there is a list of 25 top foes that it would be convenient not to have around. Multiply that chance times the chance that one of 25 critical Bush foes be on a commercial f light that has an accident. It has been 2 and a half years since there has been a f a t a l commercial p lane accident. To be generous, let us say just two. The chance that a flight gets in an accident within that time would be the average number of flights in a given day which is around 20,000. Multiply that times the number of days in two years, 730. The answer would be one in 14,600,000 flights would be f a t a l. What is the chance of someone to be on one of those f lights? To be generous, I factored in a person who flies a 100 times more often than the average person. There are 305 million people in this country. The likelihood of a person on Bush's list who flies a 100 times more than the average person being on a f a t a l flight is twenty five times the number of passengers on the p lane, 44= 1100 divided by 3,050,000(the pop. divided by 100). This equals a .360655737705% chance.
02:02 PM on 02/14/2009
P3.When you multiply the chance of a f light getting in a c rash with the chance that a Bush foe be on that f light, then you get a .00000002470244 % chance of that happening. This is already an infinitesimally small number, but if you were to multiply the chance of two Bush foes having similar accidents in a matter of months of each other, Mike C onnell and Beverly Eckert, then you would have a number so small that it would make the number above seem huge and, with all my figures, I was being generous.
02:06 PM on 02/14/2009
And I did not even factor in the likelihood that she and her husband both be taken in plane "accidents".
02:07 PM on 02/14/2009
How do they catch k ill er nurses? Pure statistics.
02:01 PM on 02/14/2009
P3.When you multiply the chance of a flight getting in a crash with the chance that a Bush foe be on that flight, then you get a .00000002470244 % chance of that happening. This is already an infinitesimally small number, but if you were to multiply the chance of two Bush foes having similar accidents in a matter of months of each other, Mike C onnell and Beverly Eckert, then you would have a number so small that it would make the number above seem huge and, with all my figures, I was being generous.
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02:32 PM on 02/14/2009
I have no idea where you are getting your numbers.

First off, given that Bush had a 28% approval rating, the chances of any death being someone who didn't like him is 72%.
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Carolab
Walking an 87-year-old in the sand isn't easy
02:43 PM on 02/14/2009
You have to look at the "big picture"--the Bush family itself, and the entire corru_pt system of so-called "government".
02:44 PM on 02/14/2009
I was picking the number of 25 for people that Bush would have on the top of the list of people he would want d e a d because they were intrinsic to any successful prosecution of him. Not the people who did not like Bush. Bush has not been injured. You logic is very convoluted. Only Mike C onnell seems to be a greater t h r e a t than Eckert and he went down first. Who are the top twenty five t h r e a t s to him. These were definitely some of the most high profile. Do you know who J e r o m e H a u e r is?
ChairmanOfTheBoard
Yeah, What He Said!
01:10 PM on 02/14/2009
Ice build up? yeah sure... RIP all the victims of this tragedy
11:52 AM on 02/14/2009
Planes with 'high aspect-ratio' (long & narrow) wings are said to be prone to
leading-edge icing problems, and are more difficult to fly, supposedly. SAS
(Scandanavian Air) took their Q800's out of service last fall, after landing-gear
problems, they said.

(Wiki) Dash 8 Q400 removal -
On 28 October 2007, in a move that was described as unique by Swedish news,
the board of directors announced that all 27 Dash 8 Q400 aircraft were to be removed
from service due to the three recent landing gear failures.
12:38 PM on 02/14/2009
ScandAir removed these type aircraft from service due to an unrelated problem with the strength of the a/c's landing gear upon hard landings, after a couple of (non-fatal) accidents where the gear collapsed.
11:25 AM on 02/14/2009
From the Buffalo News: "The recorders also detected the plane's landing gear were engaged one minute before the crash. Approximately 20 seconds later, when the plane was 2,200 feet off the ground, it aircraft experienced "severe pitch and roll" — violent sideways and up and down motions."

They were 6 miles, or 3 minutes, from landing. It just seems a higher pobabilty that, at that moment, there was a problem associated with activating the landing gear, rather then ice. It also builds a better case for conspiracy theorists - that something could have been activated when the wheels went down. One thing we do know, It was QUICK a nose dive.
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MajorKong
If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally
12:13 PM on 02/14/2009
I can't imagine a landing gear problem bringing the plane down like that. Even if one gear didn't come down it shouldn't cause any serious handling issues.

They would, however, have likely changed their flap setting at the same time. A split-flap condition (one comes down and the other doesn't) can cause some serious handling problems. Or, as has been speculated, ice on the wing combined with lowering flaps and slowing the plane could have caused a stall and/or control issues.

They'll know a lot more when they analyze the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder.
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Carolab
Walking an 87-year-old in the sand isn't easy
02:35 PM on 02/14/2009
Connell's plane and Wellstone's planes both had their landing gear down, were within a few miles of the airport, using the guidance system to land and "explod_ed". In both cases, the engines also were heard to "sputter".
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Carolab
Walking an 87-year-old in the sand isn't easy
02:45 PM on 02/14/2009
Both also quickly nose-dived as well, and the initial reports tried to blame ice, then pilot er_ror. We know in J F K Jr's case they blamed weather and inexperience.
11:06 AM on 02/14/2009
"Investigators pulled the black box recorders from the wreckage, sent them to Washington and immediately began analyzing the flight data and listening to the cockpit conversations"

Yet these black boxes "were not found"?

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/black-box/
11:48 AM on 02/14/2009
Wow - very interesting.
And to think, that same reporter got ran out of town.
What a coincidence.
03:09 PM on 02/14/2009
Fanned.
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10:17 AM on 02/14/2009
To the pilots here, can you explain this--are these kind of infractions normal and everyday--or the exception--esp. drug-testing violations?

(from New York Times)

Federal Aviation Administration records show that Colgan paid three penalties totaling $20,521 in 2005 and 2007 for maintenance, flight operations and drug-testing violations. ((((In 2005, the safety board found loose rivets in the tail elevator in a different model of small plane that Colgan flies; the Dash 8 also has had landing-gear problems.))))
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fumes
Pass The Pakalolo
10:51 AM on 02/14/2009
like in anything... ''stuff'' happens..

and like in anything... it is the exception.

feel better?

i thought so..
10:02 AM on 02/14/2009
I'm beginning to think the "boot" deicing systems they use on turboprops aren't very reliable:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deicing_boot
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12:16 PM on 02/14/2009
That's a little unfair. The technology has been in service since the 1920s and air travel is by far the safest mode of travel; compared to them cars are deathtraps.

It is, however, fair to say they're probably not the *most* reliable of technologies for dealing with ice. But that's a far cry from calling them "unreliable" given their safety record.
09:50 AM on 02/14/2009
I used to fly for a Northwest commuter out of Memphis, TN. I flew Saab 340's and BAE Jetstreams. I used to dread icing conditions.

De-ice boots are a lousy system. Pure jets, not turboprops, have a "hot wing" which uses bleed air from the engines to heat the leading edge of the wings. Turboprops, at least the ones I flew, used bleed air to inflate rubber boots attached to the leading edges. Hot wings rarely accumulate ice as it melts the ice forming on the leading edge before it builds up.

De-ice boots you have to judge the right time to activate them. The aircraft I flew had no indicator to tell you how much ice you had, you had to look visually.. Blow the boots too early and all you do is "inflate" the ice so that it forms a bubble ahead of the leading edge so that it can't be hit again by the rubber boots. Activate the boots too late and the ice won't break off or it breaks off unevenly which makes for turbulent airflow and increased stall speed.

The other problem with de-ice boots is they are repaired with rubber patches. Maintenance is allowed a lot of patches. I flew an aircraft once with eight patches on one wing. The patches come loose, allowing bleed air to escape from under the patches. This causes an already marginal de-ice system to become even more marginal.
08:57 AM on 02/14/2009
My heart goes out to all the families. I am so sorry for your loss.