Map Of Potential High-Speed Rail Built By The Stimulus

After much clamoring by energy hawks, who knows what it was that finally brought high-speed rail to the stimulus -- perhaps a little nudge from ol' Amtrak Joe? -- but it got in, to the tune of $8 billion.

And now the question is, where will the expansion be? Matthew Yglesias reports on possible new high speed rail expansion:

In a last-minute change, the total quantity of funds available was increased. But there's no special plan for Las Vegas. The money will be spread all across the country. As it happens, I think an LA-Vegas HSR line is a perfectly reasonable project. But in practice the areas that will get a leg up should be the Federal Railroad Administration's officially designated high-speed rail corridors. As it happens, LA-Vegas doesn't make the cut. But guess who does have such a corridor? Ohio!

RELATED:
::Obama Plots Huge High-Speed Rail Expansion In Stimulus Bill

Comments

[DRaymond]

Let's talk a little about the economics of why certain routes were picked.

To start with of course you a looking at LARGE city pairs, ideally with some fairly large cities along the way.

Second, rail costs take a huge jump once speeds pass 85mph. The reason is that you are then required to have grade separations on all road crossings (no crossing gates) and you must have separate tracks for the high speed rail and freight rail.

Third, once you buy off on full grade separation it makes sense to go with the fastest practical technology. The reason is that the same train can make twice the number of round trips at 200mph as it does at 100 mph.

Also in general trains have about a two hour head start on aircraft because of the time to get to and from and through the airports compared to the train stations.

So you don't want short runs. If the difference between an 85mph conventional rail and a 200mph high speed rail is only a few minutes people won't want to pay the higher price. You also don't want very long runs because the jet aircraft passes the high speed train.

So that is why you don't see many long east-west routes across the midwest. To connect the big cities is plane distance.

[Diogenes08]

Don't forget that there are few remaining, intact long-distance corridors, which are totally necessary for this to have any chance of working. Can you imagine trying to buy such a corridor today? The full-grade separation you mention will be fantastically expensive by itself.

[Totto]

Selling off those corridors is probably equalled only by the selling of US bridges and highways today to foreign investors. Perhaps Russia will buy Alaska back and we could sell Texas to China.

[NoPCZone]

Looks like it was designed by a political consultant (delegate/elector counter). I live in metro Memphis and have to go to St Louis or New Orleans to get an east-west Amtrack connection and this is no better.

It's not the NE that needs high speed rail- it's the wide open spaces and the spread out midwest, south and great plains that could use it the most.

If this is the best they can do, I say no.

[CeeDeeCee]

"Looks like it was designed by a political consultant (delegate/elector counter)."

Maybe so but if that is the case it was a repug political consultant.

Everyone needs to take note that the map was released by the Federal Railroad Administration in October of 2005 (lower left corner of map.) Obama and the Dems didn't do it.

[wdw505]

and yet Mr. b.o. kept it

[moneyman1]

Let's all remember that the latest highspeed trains are not designed or built in the United States. Not to say that GE at the Erie works in PA couldn't do the work but the fastest trains come from Germany, France and Japan and they all have top speeds of 500+Km per hour or about 300 Miles per hour. The problem isn't the capability of the trains its the straightness of the right of way. And of course all the high speed ( I'm not talking about Amtrak except for the Northeast corridor Acela built by Alstom) trains are ELECTRIC - not diesel !!!

[johnb3950]

Hey, let's not get carried away here. The speed of the fast trains in Europe and Japan is not 300 mph, it is 300 kph - I think you got your units crossed. Of course that's still plenty fast. They cruise between major cities at a steady 186 mph. And the ride is smooth.

The superfast trains are experimental , except for a few fairly short maglev runs that do indeed run att 300 mph / 500 kph - e.g. at Shanghai. And the French have upped the ante - last record was I think 574 kph or about 350 mph, and electric, not maglev.. But these are not in regular service.

However, all these figures remind us that the US is about 40 years behind the rest of the world in train service...

[whitewaterwillie]

I wonder why they didn't connect the Chicago and South Central hubs to other eastern hubs since they are so close to each other? Also, if you were to shoot a line from Kansas City to Sacramento though Denver and Salt Lake City, you would have most of the major metro areas in the US connected to each other. Its a grand plan, but it appears they could get a lot more bang for the buck if they were to make some modifications.

[NoPCZone]

Exactly,
Design by committee not based upon real need.

[Mo in VA]

It seems the routes were chosen by rank in overall intercity traffic and lack of travel options, and routes with increased ridership in need of rehabilitation.

I'm sure the idea is that at some point all routes nationwide would be high-speed.

[missouriwatcher]

I have been writing my congressmen for years about the need for affordable and dependable public transportation in our area. Usually I received no response; once in a while I get a "I'll keep your thoughts in mind". We in the Midwest and West need public transportation as much as the more densely populated areas of the country, considering the long distances we must travel. I am disappointed that we are still left out of this plan. The excuse most often given for ignoring our need is that we would rather drive. I say that this is pure bull and where this attitude does prevail could be changed with the right PR. When are we going to get integrated into the mainstream?

[Mo in VA]

Sorry? I see a line from Chicago to St. Louis to Kansas City. It doesn't seem like Missouri was forgotten.

I agree that the notion that Midwesterners don't want to use passenger rail is bogus. Make it easy for people to drive to a rail station, park, and board. As ridership increases more system enhancements will be warranted, but there is certainly a chicken-egg aspect to it.

[missouriwatcher]

I happen to live in SW Missouri, a good 3-4 hours from KC, depending on what part of the city one might have as a destination, and 4 hours from St Louis. Of course, Jefferson City is a bit closer, but not much. We do have rails from St Louis to Springfield and on to Tulsa, but that is strickly freight at the moment. Why is there no passenger service on this rail? I have no idea.

[Dots]

The midwest may want to notice some advantages to voting Democratic.
Isn't Nashville is a neglected hub for the mideast?
Thank you Mr. Corker and Mr. Alexander.

[ADVOCATE4ZPG]

If this EIGHT billion is sprinkled across a multitude of regional projects, it won't go anywhere near far enough to compass ANY high-speed rail. At best it will bring rail service back to EARLY 20th Century levels. It should be focused on the NE and AUGMENTED by tens of billions more!!!!

[Cybersquirt]

:drools:
It's about time we begin to enter the 21st century!

[Hilodave]

Train travel, high speed or otherwise is easy and convenient to use in Europe and Japan. It often runs past or underneath airports and connects to mass transit at city center hubs. In Europe the security screening is the same as airports thorough, efficient and much faster than the U.S. In Japan...heck they don't even lock the restrooms in the parks at night...everyone lines up and obeys he rules.
In the high population corridors efficient train service is long overdue. The final cost will be many billions.

[hrholmes]

I don't know where the $8billion number came from but in short, wtf? No way you get new rails even from Miami to Orlandowith only that much money much less buy a few trains to run up and down the tracks. Where would you even put the new tracks? Oh I know! Let's do a suspended train! They could use the never opened multi million dollar station in Ft Lauderdale at the end of the airport runway. Yep.This was to connect the mostly empty MetroRail and Metro Mover in Miami to the also empty Tri-rail that runs on up through Ft Lauderdale to West Palm Beach. They did show some prudence by cutting back the number of empty cars that they pull/push up and down the tracks. Yeah we could use some more empty trains here that could do 110 mph to Disney world for sure.

[USBrit]

Where to get the land? How about starting with knocking down some of the over built housing developments in the prime speculation state, I suspect that might get you a nice strip to put tracks on. As regards the $8B, that is about enough to do the proper studies needed, not much more. Yanks, yee need to get past the idiotic age of the automobile mindset. You're importing massive amounts of oil to fuel the insane addiction and it is time you all got over your obvious phobias regarding mass transit, whether high speed rail, tramways or even, God forbid, buses. Perhaps the culture of the US, endlessly stuck in teenie bopper mode, can now finally start to move towards a more adult like outlook and the country behave like something passing for adult like. And once that goes through get over the idea that endless violence on TV and the movies isn't pornographic, it is far worse than anything in any XXX film.

[wdw505]

I'll keep my cars thank you.......

[Derek Snyder]

I love when they call us Yanks.

[NobodysPoodle]

But will we be able to afford a ticket?

Today it is much less expensive to fly than it is to take Amtrak.

[ADVOCATE4ZPG]

This generalization is broadly suspect. It seems likely that "poodle" doesn't travel very often or to many places; nonetheless, he deems himself qualified to extrapolate from that "experience"!

[Skeetshooter]

P.S. Any American who has doubts about the efficacy of high speed rail need only take the channel tunnel between London and Paris.

The hours they think they are saving in the air are eaten up by security checks, baggage checks, and travel to two airports between home and destination. These stressful rage inducing wastes of time gasoline and sanity can be made obsolete in a modern rational and efficient society run for the benefit of the citizenry rather than the benefit of corporations and their shareholders.

Air travel may start to be cost effective and preferable for business trips exceeding 500 miles, but such trips represent a relatively small portion of present day air travel. Pleasure travel with fewer time constraints remains cost effective over much greater distances.

While we're busy carrying on about the legacy we're leaving our kids in budget deficits and the national debt, why don't we start digging our way out of our past present and future hole by thinking ahead for a change? Just because greedy corporations won't look beyond their next quarter's profits, does not mean the rest of us shouldn't.

It's called LEADERSHIP.

[Michugena]

Sadly, most americans don't think about the future, or the big picture, or anything else for that matter. Just listen to that idiot ranting on CNBC - I'm afraid that's the typical american. I'm all for this rail. Lets go.

[ADVOCATE4ZPG]

Michugena has nailed the mindset of most "Murkans"! For some reason, they expect progress to occur despite their opposition, an absence of funding, and a conceptual overlay based in science fiction. Most "Murkans" only know that HIGH SPEED rail exists "somewhere overseas" but that they would be unlikely to use it in the U.S.

[johnb3950]

Skeet mentions "a modern rational and efficient society run for the benefit of the citizenry rather than the benefit of corporations and their shareholders" Unfortunately, that does not describe America - it's just exactly the other way round.
However, given the groundswell of anger at the current economic meltdown, we MAY just shift a little bit towards fairness and decency. Though it's extraordinary how my conservative friends still cling to their "free market is great" myths.

[Skeetshooter]

OH MY GOD! It's the future! It's the 21st century that I saw in Europe and Japan decades ago, coming to America! Coming to a city near you! Just when you thought time itself had been crushed into a singularity by the sheer weight of idiocy, lethargy and biblical prophecy, TIME has begun to move forward again!

And not a moment too soon.

[pascaljim]

Don't hold your breath.....

[NicoloM]

SS-- I'm gonna plagiarize that riff.

[annnw]

Go to Recovery.gov and comment on anything you object to. They are asking for input from the general public -- give it!

[joliepoppy]

I really hope that this can happen. I live in France and can travel everywhere! I don't even have a car-it is wonderful. I can travel to China by train!! Surely, this is possible in the US!

[GFR]

We can't take a train from the US to China because there is water in the way. How long does it take to get from France to China by train? A week? You could fly there in 12 hours.

[At home abroad]

Don't know much about geography. And proud of it, aren't you.

[joanno]

After using it in Italy, I have been looking forward to high speed rail here for years! Much more comfortable and timely than air travel, I think it would be hugely sucessful if it truly crisscrossed the country and became something one could easily use as a mass transport option to any major city. No little seats to crunch into, no long waits on the tarmac, no weather delays...who could ask for anything more?!