Map Of Potential High-Speed Rail Built By The Stimulus

After much clamoring by energy hawks, who knows what it was that finally brought high-speed rail to the stimulus -- perhaps a little nudge from ol' Amtrak Joe? -- but it got in, to the tune of $8 billion.

And now the question is, where will the expansion be? Matthew Yglesias reports on possible new high speed rail expansion:

In a last-minute change, the total quantity of funds available was increased. But there's no special plan for Las Vegas. The money will be spread all across the country. As it happens, I think an LA-Vegas HSR line is a perfectly reasonable project. But in practice the areas that will get a leg up should be the Federal Railroad Administration's officially designated high-speed rail corridors. As it happens, LA-Vegas doesn't make the cut. But guess who does have such a corridor? Ohio!

RELATED:
::Obama Plots Huge High-Speed Rail Expansion In Stimulus Bill

Comments

[Gunwing]

For those wondering about the medias lack of calling any GOP members out on lies:

1. GOP owns the fallowing news stations:

Fox News: Fixed Noise

CNBC

CNN

BBC

NBC: Nothing But Conservatives

60 Minutes: 60 Minutes of right wing talking points

C-SPAN: All those GOP supporters are most likely payed by the GOP to flood out the independents, and Democratic voters. (Though I will watch when a independent, or a democrat has something to say as they have good heads on their shoulders most of the time)

There you have it also the GOP during the bush era took over KARE 11 news as well. Now me and my family call it FEAR 11 news.

[GFR]

If you think that NBC and 60 minutes are conservative you've been smoking something

[NicoloM]

The old narative that these are "news stations" doesn't work. These are the propaganda arm of the same obscene wealth that has its political component saying we can't cap CEO compensation and voting in lockstep against jobs bills and infrastructure renewal.
Propaganda that has worked so well, that simple people think the media is "liberal". More and more people are awakening to the fundamental of Orwell's 1984, and willing to use the "P" word to call attention to it.
PS you forgot that Bush corrupted the Petroleum Broadcasting System with Tomlinson, which is why the Brits followed suit with the BBC.

[fantomette]

LA---> Vegas is WAYY overdue. I always felt ashamed when my European relatives visit and ask about taking a train to vegas.

I think the only ones opposed are the oil execs and *some* brainwashed repubs

[Keith52]

There is no LA to Vegas train planned and their won't be because the Republicans will use it as a blathering point about pork. Ironic when that's where most of them go when they want to pork a babe.

[johnb3950]

LOL!

[pewty]

pork a schoolboy, you mean?

[GFR]

I'd feel ashamed if I had European relatives too. They should stay in Europe where they belong. In case you haven't noticed California is run by dummycrats - why blame the Republicans for something that they have no control over?

[Mo in VA]

I think Ah-nold might take exception to that. Though after this week he may want to switch teams.

California has no reason to subsidize rail to Las Vegas. If Las Vegas wants rail to attract Californians, they need to make the case to the Feds and be ready to cover a fair amount of the costs. Considering how long it took them to get their sh*t together on the strip monorail, and the condition of Vegas tourism right now, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[pascaljim]

For many years we have been without "regular" train service to Vegas, guess we can wait another 20 or 30 years for Hi-Speed..­....

[LaurieLee]

I love traveling by rail. I love that in London you can go from the center of the city to central Paris in a couple of hours, comfortably, no hassle at the airport, I've never had a delayed TGV. If we get our rail in California I will never fly to LA again.
Why the disconnect between SF and Portland? Why not a straight shot from Seattle, Portland, SF with a branch to Sacramento, to LA and on to San Diego?

[naviline]

I'm wondering the same thing about Dallas > Houston, the most common trip made in Texas and one of the most common in the South. I think someone is lobbying against it.

[GFR]

London is only 2 or 3 hundred miles from Paris. In the US most people drive over that distance. Most of the "hassle" at the airport is cause by the security screening. What makes you think that trains are immune to terrorism?

[andylyke]

I'm not sure I caught the full significance of "As it happens, LA-Vegas doesn't make the cut. But guess who does have such a corridor? Ohio! " Is this meant to deride Ohio?

Consider this - that Las Vegas produces absolutely nothing of value (other, perhaps, than being a stopover point for people going to the weapons ranges, if you count that) while the much derided "rust belt", while it's hurting at the moment, has historically produced and continues to produce goods of merit.

Maybe it's a good sign that money's being spent in an area that has a productive ethic, and maybe it's short sighted to dismiss us with a snarky sneer, if that's what the "!" is supposed to evoke.

[kotexbarbie]

I think it was either euphoric, as in "Ohio really needs the jobs and money!" or cynical, as in "Guess Obama is already doling out the goodies to a 2012 battleground state!"

Hard to tell which. Or maybe a little of both? Either way, it's still good news for Ohio.

[speedingpullet]

"Las Vegas produces absolutely nothing of value"

That's not entirely true - its still one of the fastest growing cities in America, and not just for the huge amount of tourism it generates each year.
Its also home to a growing number of tech, game and telecom companies that hire a lot of people.

Anyway, I'm not being an applogist for LV - personally I'd like to see BOTH Ohio and Nevada have cheap efficient high-speed rail corridors.

[hrholmes]

andylyke there is lots to be said for titties and beer, viva las vegas.

[notanicegirl]

If part of the reasoning behind these high speed rail corridors is environmental, the LA - LV makes sense. Also, Las Vegas produces jobs - a lot of jobs. Whether or not you think hotel and restaurant and other hospitality and entertainment related jobs (and I don't mean hookers) are of value, to the people who do the work and stay alive doing it, your attitude is rude and demeaning and senseless. Based on this kind of thinking, eliminate Anaheim and Orlando while you're at it.

[jrcjr]

it says Ohio because Boehner is from Ohio and has been the one spreading the myth that the money is for Las Vegas.

[ManFromTheOC]

I assume LA-Las Vegas is based on expected passenger traffic. Anyone who thinks this isn't viable should sit in traffic for 4 hours from Vegas to LA on Sunday afternoons.

[RexPrimoris]

Serious investment in passenger rail transport in the U.S. is long overdue. The ball should have gotten rolling decades ago, but the powers that be stifled any kind of substantive progress on that front. Amtrak has to dance and beg Congress every year for its paltry $1.5 billion in a pathetic ritual of self-flagellation, while tens of billions of dollars gets poured into airports and the federal highway system. Oil prices are low currently, but they won't stay there forever, and worldwide production is on the decline. Passenger rail is going to be the backbone of U.S. transit in the future, so we'd best start creating a first-class system of true high-speed rail, instead of the third-world 85mph infrastructure that we have now.

[GFR]

Where is all this money that you say is going into highways and airports? I haven't seen any of it? Trains have their place but they will never replace air travel. Air travel is much more flexible and it is more economical when you take into account the cost of building the railway track. The only advantage that rail has is that it can use ground-based electrical power. In France this makes sense because they get 80% of their power from nukes but it makes no sense at all here because we get only 20% of our power from nukes. Obama should be building more clean, inexpensive nuke plants and nuclear reprocessing facilities.

[johnb3950]

Oh, wake up, GFR. You think the airlines pay for the airports and the air traffic control systems? RexPrimoris is exactly right. See http://www.hasbrouck.org/blog/archives/001001.html for more on this.
Or, from http://www.trainweb.org/moksrail/advocacy/resources/subsidies/transport.htm -
"Much is made of the $30 billion spent on Amtrak over the last 30 years, but in that same period the federal government spent $1.89 TRILLION on air and highway modes, according to the New York Times and Washington Post."

[DotCommie]

So all those Republicans who got on national tv to denounce spending on High Speed Rail between Los Angeles and Las Vegas were lying? Why didn't news reporters report that it was a lie. Wolf Blitzer and his ilk should hold lyers accountable and report the truth.

[tsicby]

This is what I mean by "Boondoggle". Why build a high-speed rail line from Dallas to Little Rock instead of Dallas to Houston which would link 15 million people from Dallas, Austin and San Antonio to Houston and the entire East coast high speed rail corridor. People in Arkansas and Oklahoma don't ride trains to Dallas, they drive their pick-ups here. Idiots.

[Buddy McCue]

It sounds as if you have some serious input to offer this project.

You could write and explain your ideas to those planning these rail lines. If you have information about the transportation habits of Arkansas and Oklahoma, then maybe these planners could use your help.

[Ohsherrie]

As a non-flier and daughter of a former railroad man who grew up around trains I'm very disappointed that there's nothing coming my way. But maybe if this is successful we'll see expansion. I'll never really understand the logic behind letting our railways go in favor of air freight and trucking.

[speedingpullet]

My guess is big oil and car manufacturers probably had a hand in the RR demise...

Totally with you on the efficacy of rail - nothing's more efficient than rail for getting goods from A to B. Especially in a country the size of the US.

As a European, one of the things I miss the most is lack of trains here in the US - can't think of a better way to travel than to kick back, relax and watch the scenery go by ;-)

[GFR]

The reasons why trains were replaced by cars and planes in the US are easy to see. The European population lives in a handful of densely populated areas. Try getting anywhere in rural England using public transportation - it's impossible. I once went from Paris to Calais in 2-3 hours. Crossed the channel in about an hour and then spent two hours and 50 pounds taking a taxi from the ferry terminal to my final destination 15 miles away. Most Americans live in what Europeans would call "the country" - providing them with public transportation is a pipe dream. Airplanes are much more flexible than trains and they don't require the initial enormous investment in infrastructure. That being said there are some places in the US where trains would be a good idea, but trying to do away with cars and planes is a stupid idea and will never work.

[ngannon]

Seems like a good start- would like to see it coast to coast.

[GFR]

You can take a train coast to coast if you want - it takes four days. Even with a TGV it would still take 15-20 hours. That's a lot of time to be cooped up in a train even if they are bigger than airplanes. Hi-speed trains only make sense over "short-fat" routes like SanFrancisco to LA. Anything that requires a longer trip is better served by airplanes and only very large city pairs would allow those railway routes to be economical.

[johnb3950]

Nobody minded the longer times on long trips in the days before widespread air service. And there are plenty of trips that are less than coast to coast, but more than just "fat corridors.­"

And in the corridors, the train wins hands down even now, much more so if it had better speed. You complain about the cost of the trip from the terminal to your destination - same applies to air travel, you;re going to have some last piece to do by taxi, car rental, whatever. But note: I live about 12 miles out of Boston: if I fly into Logan outside public transport hours, a taxi home costs $50 - $60: in the daytime I can make it via the subway/commuter rail connections, free with my commuter pass, but then I have to get form the local station to the house: if I come in from NY on the Acela, I can pick up my car that I left at the parking at the Rte 128 stop and be home at the same time as the train is reaching the terminus (South Station). Add in the wonderful saving in non-travel time and it's a total win.

[AirForceWx1701]

With overland travel, the revenue picture is much more complicated than a simple look at its endpoints; interurban stops as well as small-to-medium sized towns en route can supply a large amount of revenue unavailable to planes, which are dependent upon costly, heavily subsidized, and tax-burdening airports. 500 miles is the general rule of thumb on high-speed rail, so LA-Frisco is a good route- as demonstrated by the current very popular Amtrak California services on that route. 15-20 hours on a train is no big deal if a dining car and sleepers are available at a reasonable cost. Leave at 5pm, arrive 1pm the next day, fully rested, with plenty of time to work or relax en route. It's not the same as a 4-hour flight, but it would be much more attractive than 4 days.

[Johnagain]

Why aren't Houston and Dallas linked?

[Huffmeister1]

Being a Texan, that's a good damned question! I live in Nashville now, and there's no rail at all even though it's in every major city around us!

[kotexbarbie]

Infrastructure was always the best part of what Obama promised to do, and the best part of the stimulus bill. Wish there was more of it -- but, okay, this would be change I could believe in. Kudos to Obama or Biden for pushing it.

One small quibble. I'm from Boston, where it took about $15 billion dollars and fifteen years to implement the Big Dig. This $8 billion for a nationwide system sounds more like exploratory stuff to me. Hope future funding doesn't dry up like Amtrak.

[GFR]

An excellent point - I remember when th big dig was first proposed it was going to cost $800 Million!

Politicians will always milk public works projects for all they've got. For every dollar that goes to Washington in taxes on 24 cents eventually gets back to the American people.

[Aesthete]

At last. I've been stating for years that high-speed rail would result in a more efficient use of our nation's resources as well as providing employment and efficient, comfortable travel. There's technology out there that we haven't been developing or using. This is only a beginning. In time, I hope to see more routes established.

[babyboomerorig]

Just a curious observatio­n....there­'s NO high speed rail from LA to Vegas, as protested by the Republican­s....hmmmm­....were they given fabrications by their leaders or Rush?

[GFR]

That's right - they're all "mind-numbed robots" who Rush controls. High speed rail between LV and LA has been proposed at least a dozen times.

[byogman]

I can't really complain about what this would do for me. Raleigh has a small-ish airport, but is very well situated on this map.

Still, the value of a network grows exponentially with size. It's utterly ridiculous that that didn't connect Pittsburgh­-Cleveland­, to combine the two largest pieces to create a single, more valuable network. Are they worried about football fans? Just a breathtaking omission.

They also need to hook Jacksonville to the rest of Florida through Orlando, Houston to the rest of TX through Dallas, and there should be a link or two to link the midwestern cities to the south and southeast. For instance, put Nashville on the map between Louisville and Atlanta, and probably link St. Louis to Little Rock through Memphis and then Memphis to Nashville.

If you do these fairly small things you have a pretty solid network over the eastern half of the country + big city texas with links from midwest to northeast, across the south, the north east to the southeast and the south, the south east and south to the midwest.

Seems a lot better than laying 85% of the same track and get so much less in return.

[dreadylocks]

Really? No Chicago-New York line? Or even Philli?

[babyboomerorig]

It'll come. The more people realize they can relax on these rails and not be stuck in traffic, other lines will be opened up.

[NickCatal]

A ChicagoNew York line would be VERY expensive. Almost too expensive. And you would wonder how many people would actually use it.

For anything other than regional routes it is faster (and, if you look at Acela rates, cheaper) to hop on a flight. There is no real benefit on taking a high-speed rail connection between NY and Chicago over just getting a flight