Map Of Potential High-Speed Rail Built By The Stimulus

After much clamoring by energy hawks, who knows what it was that finally brought high-speed rail to the stimulus -- perhaps a little nudge from ol' Amtrak Joe? -- but it got in, to the tune of $8 billion.

And now the question is, where will the expansion be? Matthew Yglesias reports on possible new high speed rail expansion:

In a last-minute change, the total quantity of funds available was increased. But there's no special plan for Las Vegas. The money will be spread all across the country. As it happens, I think an LA-Vegas HSR line is a perfectly reasonable project. But in practice the areas that will get a leg up should be the Federal Railroad Administration's officially designated high-speed rail corridors. As it happens, LA-Vegas doesn't make the cut. But guess who does have such a corridor? Ohio!

RELATED:
::Obama Plots Huge High-Speed Rail Expansion In Stimulus Bill

Comments

[hippie chucker]

Definitely need more hi speed rail. Because, you know, Amtrak generates billions of dollars a year in revenue. /sarc

Show me a city that doesn't have taxpayer subsidized public transportation, and is making a profit?

Americans are car people. Deal with it.

You guys know Amtrak shut down the train between Vegas and LA years ago, because no one rode on it, right?

[shanefish]

Eurpoe has had FREE electric public transport for DECADES! This is not an engineering marvel, but just good economic sense. Then again, you guys always TALK about being all about the economy, but we're finally seeing through your smokescreens. Pathetic. We're Americans and we refuse to change is your moto and that moto is on its way to the dumpster where it belongs.

[biskitdaddy]

Replicans don't want it here. They want to continue to keep their blind sheep fearful and in the dark, and continue to pump 600 billion into the huge military industrial complex. No taxpayer dollars going to actually helping taxpayers, but to enrich their corporate buddies.

[Paul Brown]

Amtrak doesn't own the rails upon which it rides; the big railroad companies do. Which means that passenger service on the lines is the lowest priority to the freight shipping. This is the number one reason that Amtrak's service suffers.

The Northeast Corridor is a money maker. The Capitol Corridor between Sacramento and San Francisco is a money maker. In places where there is strong long-haul commuting demand, there are successful trains.

Show me a highway that doesn't have taxpayer subsidized public monies, and is making a profit? Since when is profit the only motive in maintaining quality infrastructure?

[biskitdaddy]

Are you a Georgia Republican? You sure sound like one; trying to keep the U.S. in the stone age behind the rest of the world.

[Vespasian]

Americans are not going to be "car people" very much longer.... deal with that!

[nobodyatall]

I hate to say this, but the US is seriously slipping behind the rest of the world...

In Shanghai you go from the airport to downtown on a MAGLEV train at 268 mph.

If we built that here, we could get from NYC to DC in about 50 min, or San Francisco to LA in 85 min.

Come on, America!!! Let's be #1 again!!! ;-)

[shanefish]

If the republicans really wanted economic equality, they'd be all for this. They NEED poor, uneducated people. Otherwise, who would rake their leaves for them?

[AirForceWx1701]

Maglev is an expensive gimmick, at least for now. The speed increase is definitely not worth the huge $$ required for even 1 mile of 'track'. Always nice to see anyone in the US who's pro-rail, though.

[ElPerro]

I like it. I'd like it better if they connected Dalas to Los Angeles via Albuquerque and Phoenix. But you can't have everything.

[Dampflok]

And:

On the other hand, as stimulus, numerous existing corridors could be upgraded relatively quickly by simply double or even triple tracking. This increases capacity substantially in freight clogged corridors. Signaling could be upgraded for passenger service / positive train control. If all these corridors were improved with the correct materials (concrete ties - heaviest welded rail), some might be upgraded as higher speed now or later. Putting trains on to the new track allows immediate upgrading of the existing track as well. Some or many grade crossings could be eliminated or grade separated with bridges relatively quickly. Most of this would allow 90 mph running and some higher, but probably not more than 125.

Most of this work can be done with off the shelf technology. Judicious selection of corridors could set these up for true HSR later. That would still leave the long term problem of finding HS corridors if you want true high speed everywhere.

[NickCatal]

IIRC, think the big problem, at least with the Acela trains, is that there is not enough room inbetween trains to effectively turn corners on a slope and not have the trains swipe the side of each other. And there is not enough room left on the Right-of-way to move the tracks much further apart.

[Dampflok]

Further:

The decades comment means just that. The incremental upgrades in the Northeast Corridor are taking a long time when the property is owned by Amtrak / Metro North. Washington to Boston is now 125 to 150 mph over much of its length, but is still often clogged in the Metro North section NY into CT. The catenary is 1930s and predictions for its longevity are not good and it needs rebuilding. Several bridges need replacement and have speed restrictions. Much of the $8 B stimulus could go to just completing that corridor. The most that the rest of the stimulus would pay for as stimulus is preliminary studies and maybe engineering. Finding dedicated rights-of-way is a tedious process - nimbys come to mind.

[NickCatal]

Finding new ROWs in that part of the country in general is a tedious problem... nimby or not, that's a lot of land a huge amount of private landowners are going to have taken from them.

[Dampflok]

For those who object to some of my earlier comments:

As stated, the 90 mph figure is the US Federal Railway Administration cheating. We should be looking at the European figure of 125 mph minimum. I rode on the Eurostar Paris to London and asked the attendant what our speed was. Answer 180 mph and we were just cruising. The ride was absolutely flat. The city to city timing is now just over 2 hours, which no plane can beat. And this includes 18 minutes under the English Channel.

[BambiKiller]

High speed trains are not a stimulus. It will take ten years just to clear the environmental studies. Get real people.

[SCVADem]

Environmental Impact Assessments: http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/250

[shanefish]

You're right, we should just bury our heads in the sand.

[Dina Jacobs]

Hey you big jerks. People live in Ohio. Like lots of them. So before you go snubbing your nose at the Midwest and elevating the sunglass-wearing, Prada-toting legions out west, go look at a census.

[mdwstbst]

absolutely, dina jacobs!

how very progressive of Matthew Yglesias.

[Realityism]

If you actually read the quoted blog post, Yglesias is calling out Boehner on his complaints that a rail line from L.A. to Vegas won't help his constituents. This is fallacious because (A) such a rail line is not planned, and (B) there are several rail projects planned for Boehner's home state of Ohio.

[Paul Brown]

Yes, I agree. Bashing the midwest isn't productive.

[Antifascist-08]

I for one am very glad the train for Vegas will probably never be built (mostly because of terrain). Las Vegas represents everything that is wrong with this country. It is a city for losers. Just like the state of Nevada.

Let the casinos build their own trains. They have plenty of money, taken from the suckers who go there. No bailouts for them.

[Lauren Glenn]

Capitalism isn't what's wrong with this country. People willingly spent their money at these casinos.

The state of Nevada does things like legalizing prostitution which actually makes sense because you can't police something you can't control.

I think the casinos should fund the train themselves, but there is also entertainment in Vegas aside from casinos. A train that actually goes to a place of interest where people might find work? Why would anyone want that? ;)

[AirForceWx1701]

Hear, hear! In Pensacola, FL [my hometown] there is a charter/tour company that does bus trips to all sorts of events [Saints games, FSU games, etc], but their bread and butter are their trips to Biloxi, MS casinos, 2 hours away. You get more $$ in gambling cash than your fare, plus a free buffet-- the casinos make a profit off folks that gamble [and, obviously, lose] some of their own money on top of the $10-20 they're given. It's a simple model that is proven, and I know the Vegas casinos are WAY more high-buck than the Biloxi ones- why not fund a train on the same premise?

[Lauren Glenn]

How is just over 90 mph "high speed?" The current NJ Transit trains run at 80 to 85 mph (I used my GPS to track the speed).

At a time of crisis, how is this going to improve our economy unless you are in construction? Can a mother of 2 children leave her home after working as a customer service rep and build a train?

Like I said in another post, create jobs by taxing companies that don't create them here instead of letting them keep the jobs overseas.

[shanefish]

You would have more work, not because you're a train track builder, but because when these guys are working, rather than on unemployment, they'll be more likely to shop at your store. Do you really not see the value in infrastructure spending?

[gracie99]

If it isn't fast, cheap, and convenient enough to lure passengers from taking planes, it's just GREENSTANDING, another vastly expensive pork barrel project of the sort politicians love -- "Look! I got us a new train set!" -- and that wastes money that could be used for green projects that would have more effect for the money spent.

90 miles/hour does not sound fast enough.

[ccpostman]

Where do you live, under a rock?

The new designed trains are a little faster than 90 miles/hour . Faster than a lot of planes now flying!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw4zn-qw1oM

[shanefish]

Don't confuse these people with facts, they will not believe it anyway.

[NURREDIN]

I for one can't wait. A flock of birds can't kill me on a train, and I at least have a chance if the engineer guns it when there's ice on the tracks! What happened to Vegas to L.A.?

[Julia Howe]

Is it just me.. or does the Dept of Transportation logo looks like a hurricane threatening the coast of Florida?

Back I nerdgress.­..
1. Why isnt there a crosscountry rail that passes through Vegas?
a. It would open up a whole new expanse of ecovillages along the way.
b. LA folks can get to Vegas for work/play.
2. Why isnt cali all linked up through to Vancouver? That would help the movie industry folks a ton.
3. It's not HSR unless its 175-200mph. At 90mph.. that's like 3am on the Garden State Parkway. I'm not impressed.

[ccpostman]

"Why isn't there a cross country rail that passes through Vegas?"

They can't build a very good high speed train to Vegas from LA for one costly reason.

Europe is flat where they run the high speed trains. From Barstow to Primm there is a very steep grade that a high speed train can not climb well. They would have to make a few long switch backs to get up that grade. Any sharpe un-banked turn would slow a train way down. It really would not work that well. There are better locations to build the super high speed trains in the U.S. Once we figure out how to build a few, Vegas-LA will be done.

Gravity is a b i t c h!

[shanefish]

Dang physics. Hey, most of these guys don't even believe in science, it is no wonder they can't wrap their brains around that little tid-bit.

[MarioTheRetiree]

I keep hearing references on some of the talk shows and even on Fox News TV that Senator Reid 'snagged' a huge piece of pork on the high speed rail allocation of the stimulus bill.

A Disneyland to Vegas HSR line. Mr. "K" on Fox News even referred to it as the "Fantasyland Express."

I can find no mention of such a HSR line.

Does anyone have accurate information?

Mr. "K" on Fox News is known to occasionaly distort facts to favor the right. But, I can't believe he would put an outright fabrication out there.

[khamak]

I believe there has been long range planning of a LA to Vegas line along with scores of other mass transit lines all over the fcountry. There is nothing in the stim plan specifying that any money will go to any specific project. The Transportation secretary and the DOT will determine which projoects get funding.

[koolwoman]

Mariotheretiree. What's that? You don't think Fox would put out an outright fabricatio­n.. Maybe you should check it more closely. I don't believe a thing they say. If any one lies to me one time, I never trust them again.

[SCVADem]

There was an Environmental Impact Assessment for that line and some may have taken that as proof is was going to come to be.
Victorville to Las Vegas: http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/1703

[shanefish]

Have we all missed the memo that these guys ignore facts willfully in order to brainwash (I use the term loosly) their audience?

[Richard DeArmond]

Another after-thought: There is pressure in Canada for a Windsor - Quesbec City high speed rail system (an old idea, but it never dies). If this country can get its act together and build it, there should definitely be Detroit-Windsor link with through running hs trains. Trying get from Chicago to Toronto is major pain in the posterior since Amtrak cut off the though running with Via. This link is vital.

Cheers, Richard