Former Weather Underground Member: Ayers "Disingenuous"

Former Weather Underground member Howard Machtinger argues in an "In These Times" essay that Bill Ayers "glosses over" the violence of the organization's actions in a recent New York Times editorial.

As a former member of the Weather Underground, I feel compelled to add my voice to the recently re-heated discussion of the group's legacy.

...

We in the WU argued that militant nonviolence had been found wanting in stopping the war; we felt something more was urgently needed. However, there is no evidence that armed propaganda succeeded where militant nonviolence fell short. The WU argument only makes sense if its long-term aim was to set the stage for an armed overthrow of the state - a wildly wrong reading of the times.

...

One need not equate the relentless, pounding violence of the American war on Vietnam or against the Black Freedom movement with the small-time violent actions of the WU in order to be critical of the direction we set. While we in the WU did not, by some grace, become terrorists, we were wrong and destructive. We did lose our way. We were not demons, but we did succumb to our own fantasy of revolutionary pride.

The magazine website appears to be down; more quotes from the essay can be found here.

Comments

[army193]

What would you call a President that received memo that country was going to attached and did nothing?

[PDXKevin]

Criminally negligent??

[chitown8]

Bush!

[HC4BO]

Terrorist ! ...

[Redeemer777]

A president with good reading comprehension

[BushBites]

A lazy, rich frat boy on a month-long vacation at his fake ranch.

[Bobleblah1]

The Weather underground was a Foundation creation that was sent out to engage in terrorism.
They bombed places and real people died. Many years later Bill Clinton cleared many of these people.
Weather Underground were never about fighting for freedom, for the oppressed or anyone else.
They were paid agitators who were funded by The Ford foundation and If I'm not mistaken the Annenberg foundation (May have only been Ford foundation though).

So Yes, they were engaged in acts of violent agitation, but they were never truly on the outside.
They were always pawns of the Foundation system and hence part of cointelpro and a fraud.

How on earth is it that Bill Ayers has the access to the system that he has?
Now lets juxtapose that to real grass roots populous movements like the Panthers.
Look for them now.......­..........­.........T­heir all dead or locked up forever on trumped up charges.

Whatever you wish you believed about these people, just know that they were never on your side.
REGARDLESS WHAT SIDE YOU THINK YOU ARE ON.

[CosmicSpaceTurtle]

Most of what you've said is a lie. First of all, the bombs never killed anybody. The worst they ever did would be most accurately described as property damage. If anything, they're vandals, not terrorists.

[rainbowblue]

If you count the one that exploded on accident, then two were killed. Their own members.

[BushBites]

They killed themselves once by accident. That's about it.

If you want to call them "terrorists," you'd have to call them the Special Olympics of Terrorists.

Funny how the Fox News Idiots are making the WU way more scary than they were--one could almost accuse them of being the real terrorists.

[Gib]

More fantasies.

[chitown8]

Actually Ayers was rich and help fund the WU. Also the Black Panther dispite J Edgar Hoover belief actually did empower many black while the Government turned their back on social justice.

[jacqmac]

Got plenty of ALCOA stock? I don't know where you got your so-called 'facts' but the Weather Underground, up until 1969, SUPPORTED the Panthers. Obviously, you have been reading the trumped up rumors and lies that were used to discredit the WU and the Panthers too. The Weather Underground was 'part of Cointelpro'??!! Where exactly did you pull THAT piece of psuedo-logic from?

[NCRDIBULL]

it's amazing how extremists (progressives ) will defend even those who bomb, terrorize and kill as long as they are liberal

[amdezurik]

Ayers never killed anyone

[andyg]

Just tried too.

[pros54]

Just as the rightists never see a mass murder an ethnic cleansing or fascism they did not love so long as it is our government or Israel that is doing it.

[CosmicSpaceTurtle]

Ayers never killed anybody.

The worst he did was damage some property. He might have been a vandal, but he certainly wasn't a terrorist.

If you want to talk about somebody who has bombed and killed, how about George W Bush? He's responsible more deaths (thousands of US soldiers, tens of thousands of Aghani and Iraqi civilians) than Ayers ever was (zero, nobody, ever.)

I'm not saying what Ayers and the WU did was correct, but to label them as terrorists is slightly absurd, seeing as how they never killed anybody and never attempted to "terrorize" civilians.

[Gidster]

It wasn't terrorism until the Patriot Act. The man caused some property damage 40 years ago, hardly a terrorist act.

Two members of the WU blew themselves up accidentally, but the WU never actually hurt civilians or soldiers.

[devadasi]

It's amazing how ignorant you are ncrdibull. We've just had a peaceful election; let's hope Obama can bring about change for the progressive agenda....­if not, violence may be the only way to turn things around. The wall street pigs and the limbaughs, the madoffs, and the hannitys are murderers in my book---people losing their pension, being evicted, can't afford health insurance and so on and so on.

[zola77]

So do you support the violence that happened in the civil war? or the war of independence? The founding fathers "bombed, terrorised and killed" - but you applaud them, why?

The WU were misguided youth, but your logic is flawed.

I think we all know that sometimes violence is necessary to bring about essential changes that benefits people.

[simplify]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[voltage356]

Hey Howard, Bill at a point in his life now to get on board for the money train. Look at it this way A-Rod had no real money when he started he was young and naive about the way the world really works. But now he much older and is making real money of course one starts to change their tune to go with the flow now. Money is greater than you and i Howard. Did you hear Bill has some type of comic book come out?

[LWelsch]

I graduated high school in 1966 and college in 1970. I was number 24 on the draft lottery. The armed forces found me unfit for service and I received a 1-Y deferment. I called a 1-Y go?

I remember the Chicago Democratic convention, the SDS, the Chicago 7, demonstrations, marches, Kent State, the Weathermen, the Weather Underground and much more. In my memories Bill Ayers, the weathermen, and the weather underground were minor players in the anti-war movement.

Yes the weather underground committed acts of violence, but nothing compared to the Ohio National Guardsmen who fired at unarmed students at Kent State. And then there was the finger given by Governor Ronald Reagan to all of us in the anti-war movement.

I always felt the weather underground did more harm than benefit to the anti-war movement. Should Bill Ayers have been tried and convicted -- well I felt his transgressions were minor compared to Mayor Daley, the person who armed the Ohio National Guard, and the person who ordered them to fire. Many police hurt many demonstrators, spraying them with tear gas and locking them up unnecessarily. And then there was always the clubbing.

[goodog]

a good juxtaposition

[devadasi]

The Vietnam war was a tragedy...­over 50,000 service men and woman died in that war. We had every right to protest and to resort to violence if we had to.

[Gidster]

My cousin Paul is blind in his right eye and is missing 6 teeth because of a Chicago Policeman's nightstick in 68.

These were unarmed protesters, the authorities showed far less restraint than the WU

[OtayPanky]

I lived through those times.

The great divide, for those of us on the left, was how to respond to the egregious issues of the day: particularly racial injustice and US militarism in Vietnam and Cambodia. Was violence intrinsically the wrong response, or was it useful for "revolutionary" purposes.

One one side of the debate were MLK, the Berrigans, etc - people willing to be arrested for civil disobedience in accordance with Ghandi's basic teachings. On the other were those who talked and or acted out of deliberate violence: Stokely Carmichael, The Black Panthers, the Weathermen.

It's clear - to me,at least and now to Ayers as well - that the first group had it right, and the second had it wrong.

At this point, playing the blame game makes no sense - because those in power ALSO had it wrong. The real question is, what lessons are there for ALL of us to learn from the tragic mistakes of the past? Because - unfortunately - we seem to have repeated a bunch of them in the present, in our systematic violation of the Constution and the Geneva accords over the past eight years.

Any idiot can throw a stone. We've got to do better than that.

[devadasi]

Maybe we can do better than that? Let's hope so. There are no guarantees.

[SailFree]

No, it is yes!

[Grunty1]

Confused as always I see.

[biglover]

Looks like the new left is in power - so what does that say for your party johnniegenocie.

[msriseup]

No the Dems are in power. Sons of Clinton to be exact.

[inorbit]

Yes, the Weathermen were violent and were seen as an unacceptable fringe group at the time. I lived through those times - and I remember them well.

[TiredOfLiars]

Shouldn't Billy be somewhere making license plates, not educating young people?

[powerlift2201]

Bill Ayers was never charged or convicted of any crime. So why should he be doing time?

[bobfai]

He has admitted to his crime.

[Artboyz]

When our country loses its way only the bravest of us are willing to stand against it. Bill Ayers and the hundreds/thousands like him, while young and sometimes foolish, exemplified patriotism in the ways our founders would respect. The masses - who like sheep - blindly follow corrupt leaders during the worst of times, whether out of fear, ignorance or indifference would've filled the likes of Washington, Jefferson and Adams with shame.

[bobfai]

The most out of control comment I have ever heard. The freedom of speech in this Republic gives each person a voice. The fact that a person makes bombs an trys to injure or kill people to make a point is not ever going to be acceptable . Ayers should be in jail.

[randyjet]

The MAIN lesson is NOT to use humane methods in making changes or revolution, since those who force change are usually not the violent ones. The WU, Narodniks, SRs and others being failed exceptions. It is the existing powers that have to use violence to KEEP power against the mass of the people who turn against them.

I see that this writer still has not bothered to educate himself on many classics of revolutionary literature. For the relationship between ends and means, I suggest Their Morals and Ours, by Leon Trotsky. HE actually knows what he is talking about since he actually made a revolution, and created the Red Army, along the way defeating all the foreign nations which had invaded Russia. Or you might actually read his HIstory of the Russian Revolution, a book Herman Wouk called the most evil book ever written,since he did not like Trotsky's politics. Of course, that takes time and effort. It was much easier to read a book like Soul On Ice and proclaim it a masterpiece and think that was all that was needed.

[tedpikul]

Wow, that's very helpful...­got any other authors who participated in mass murder? For generations yet unborn, of course...t­he best of intentions. It sounds like Randy's made his mind up, if he has one, but anyone else interested in Comrade Trotsky's selfless slaughter of civilians might want to check out (e.g.) The Black Book Of Communism (written by Marxist historians) which documents the mass atrocities committed by various Marxist regimes, using the regimes' newly-available internal documents as evidence.

Some of us know that socialism doesn't have to be Marxist (and that Trotsky wassn't the Noble Exception to Stalinist tactics that SWP and others wish he was). It sounds like others still like participating in The World's Coolest Cult Ever. With the best of intentions, of course.

[randyjet]

I think you need to read what Trotsky himself said in Their Morals and Ours. He does NOT deny anything that he did or ordered. He also fought for freedom within the Soviet Union against the Stalinist dictatorship that grew out of the destitution of the aftermath of the Civil war.

I would compare what Lincoln did in many areas as well. He ordered the execution of POWs when the Confederacy declared they would execute Union officers of black troops and the troops themselves. Just what do you think would be a HUMANE response to such a thing? I could also say what my Uncle Bob who was a GI in WWII did to SS prisoners. He executed them as well by the way. He was rather proud of that fact, and I think he was right. I guess that such people as you who have never had to experience the horror of war can tut tut all you want, but the fact is that such things are sometimes needed.

[zola77]

"The Black Book Of Communism (written by Marxist historians­)..."

I am neither cap nor comm but I know that you are wrong. Actually it wasnt written by marxist historians - it was written by an avid pro-capitalist historian.

Marxist historians heavily critiqued the book and replied to the book by writing "the black book of capitalism". It rightly points out that capitalism has killed and oppressed more people than communism did.

A fantastic read if you are interested in hearing the other side of the argument. But I'm guessing you dont...

[Deparis]

Seems to me Mr. Machtinger is miffed about Mr. Ayers getting all the attention, but not him.

[ohmetoo]

Bingo

[SailFree]

Former Weather Underground Member: Ayers "Disingenuous"

Oh, REALLY? How surprising­...

[aliceinks]

LMAO...I had a thought I wanted to share, until I read your post. Just about says it all. Nothing we didn't know last year. ; -)

[amdezurik]

sadly you have shown by your posts that you are a Limpbaughlls drone and a Seansucker, so you knew nothing last year and you still know nothing and are happy as a clam about it.

[randyjet]

That is a fair recital of the politics of the WU. I hope that all will take note of the main points, that they were NOT part of the anti-war movement, that they were undisciplined fanatics, who had little serious thought behind what they were doing. The sad thing is that these errors could have been overcome if they had bothered to read and study real revolutions and people. I remember how little such people knew about much of anything and was astounded at their ignorance and arrogance.

For the rest of us who DID do the hard, boring work of studying and learning and spending tons of our little money that we could EARN, NOT given by Mommy,, we viewed the American people as our ALLIES, NOT our enemy. As a Vietnam era veteran, I had to laugh at the idea that an NCO dance is an officers dance, and these idiots wanted to kill those GIs who for the most part were draftees. IT did not take long to make rank in the Army back then folks. A first term guy would make Sgt in no time at all. The FACT is that it was the millions who protested in DC which forced Nixon to withdraw, NOT spoiled brats playing at revolution. LBJ and Nixon feared the millions of Americans, NOT them. It was the anti-war GIs who were the heroes of the movement, NOT the WU. THEY risked FAR more than any of them.