Obama Backs Bush On Bagram Detainees

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NEDRA PICKLER and MATT APUZZO | February 20, 2009 07:48 PM EST | AP

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WASHINGTON — The Obama administration, siding with the Bush White House, contended Friday that detainees in Afghanistan have no constitutional rights.

In a two-sentence court filing, the Justice Department said it agreed that detainees at Bagram Airfield cannot use U.S. courts to challenge their detention. The filing shocked human rights attorneys.

"The hope we all had in President Obama to lead us on a different path has not turned out as we'd hoped," said Tina Monshipour Foster, a human rights attorney representing a detainee at the Bagram Airfield. "We all expected better."

The Supreme Court last summer gave al-Qaida and Taliban suspects held at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the right to challenge their detention. With about 600 detainees at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan and thousands more held in Iraq, courts are grappling with whether they, too, can sue to be released.

Three months after the Supreme Court's ruling on Guantanamo Bay, four Afghan citizens being detained at Bagram tried to challenge their detentions in U.S. District Court in Washington. Court filings alleged that the U.S. military had held them without charges, repeatedly interrogating them without any means to contact an attorney. Their petition was filed by relatives on their behalf since they had no way of getting access to the legal system.

The military has determined that all the detainees at Bagram are "enemy combatants." The Bush administration said in a response to the petition last year that the enemy combatant status of the Bagram detainees is reviewed every six months, taking into consideration classified intelligence and testimony from those involved in their capture and interrogation.

After Barack Obama took office, a federal judge in Washington gave the new administration a month to decide whether it wanted to stand by Bush's legal argument. Justice Department spokesman Dean Boyd says the filing speaks for itself.

"They've now embraced the Bush policy that you can create prisons outside the law," said Jonathan Hafetz, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union who has represented several detainees.

The Justice Department argues that Bagram is different from Guantanamo Bay because it is in an overseas war zone and the prisoners there are being held as part of a military action. The government argues that releasing enemy combatants into the Afghan war zone, or even diverting U.S. personnel there to consider their legal cases, could threaten security.

The government also said if the Bagram detainees got access to the courts, it would allow all foreigners captured by the United States in conflicts worldwide to do the same.

It's not the first time that the Obama administration has used a Bush administration legal argument after promising to review it. Last week, Attorney General Eric Holder announced a review of every court case in which the Bush administration invoked the state secrets privilege, a separate legal tool it used to have lawsuits thrown out rather than reveal secrets.

The same day, however, Justice Department attorney Douglas Letter cited that privilege in asking an appeals court to uphold dismissal of a suit accusing a Boeing Co. subsidiary of illegally helping the CIA fly suspected terrorists to allied foreign nations that tortured them.

Letter said that Obama officials approved his argument.

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration, siding with the Bush White House, contended Friday that detainees in Afghanistan have no constitutional rights. In a two-sentence court filing, the Justic...
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration, siding with the Bush White House, contended Friday that detainees in Afghanistan have no constitutional rights. In a two-sentence court filing, the Justic...
 
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This whole story is about the justice department saying that detainees in Afghanistan do not have access to U.S. courts. What the hell is so "alarming" about that? Never in history has someone in another country been subject to U.S. courts. That is not to say they are not subject to the rules of war, the Geneva Convention, International courts, or even Afghan courts. There is a lot of weirdness in the posts on this article. What is different about Guantanamo? Some highly unintelligent people removed detainees from a war zone and put them in a U.S. territory, and are not observing the Geneva Convention. Nearly 500,000 POWs were detained within the U.S. during WWII and none of them had the rights of U.S. citizenship including access to the courts. There is no constitutional authority nor legal precedent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:05 PM on 02/21/2009
- Jezreel I'm a Fan of Jezreel 75 fans permalink
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Precisely, KansasWrangler. I'm amazed at the lack of understanding implied through the some of the commentary on this article.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 PM on 02/21/2009
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 660 fans permalink
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Okie dokie, as long as we can sleep warm in our beds at night anything goes. I give up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:00 PM on 02/21/2009
- alm123 I'm a Fan of alm123 9 fans permalink

I was not a big supporter of Bush, but least I slept better under his watch.

Right now, I’m worried about that 3 am call.
Are we safer?

Another 911 will set American back for many years!

We need to do every thing possible to maintain our freedom from terror and protect every man, woman and child.

The psych of “TERROR” has taken over the world is just as damaging as its physical destruction.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 PM on 02/21/2009
- gonnuts I'm a Fan of gonnuts 15 fans permalink

Hey Sparky, terror has been with us as long as war has, it's a "tactic". You can't fight a war on a tactic. All terror is, is a method to make you fearful, which seems to have worked wonders on you.

This whole "war on terror" is a sham. You can't defeat terror with an army. It's like trying to fight the Mafia with an army. It's beyond stupid. But I'm afraid that won't register with you.

Just a little exercise, go to the FBI most wanted list and look under Osama binLaden, tell us if you see him wanted for 9/11. Just to save you the trouble, he's not. They have no evidence of OBL being connected to that attack. But don't take my word for it, go look.

That should disturb your sleep for awhile.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 02/21/2009
- R1Rider I'm a Fan of R1Rider 4 fans permalink

If you dont feel safe under Obama's watch, you can leave the country. Good riddance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:43 PM on 02/21/2009
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Now, now, c'mon all you lefties. Ya'all are just really sore winners. and whiners. Are you enjoying the 3rd Bush Administration? I know I am. I know it will take time to accept, but both republicans and democrats, say, 90%+ of Americans, see the world clearly and our enemies for who they are. Isn't this just swell, democrats vindicating the policy of conservatives, again. Consequently, the far left position has, once again, been thoroughly repudiated for what it is. Intellectually, ethically and morally bankrupt. Lefties = pacifists = dangerous. Come to think of it, pacifists would look good in hijabs. LMOA

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:57 PM on 02/21/2009
- gonnuts I'm a Fan of gonnuts 15 fans permalink

Ah, you are so happy with your sociopath friends.

Only thing this proves is that our government isn't ours. That both parties are beholden to a MIC and international bankers, whose policies dictate they need war to survive. Things like compassion don't mix well with that ideology.

But none of this will ring with you. You're still stuck in that left/right paradigm, Hegelian Dialect BS that makes you all a tingle anytime you think "your side" is winning.

Sorry Sparky, but when one person loses their rights, we all lose. If you ever had the capacity to realize this you wouldn't be posting such stupid tripe.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:07 PM on 02/21/2009
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Cheers gonuts, thanks for making my point so, eh un-eloquently? LMAO

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 PM on 02/21/2009
- pesfb I'm a Fan of pesfb 8 fans permalink
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Jesus is getting p_i_s_s_e_d with you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:12 PM on 02/21/2009
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pesfb, aren't you late for your meeting with your parole officer?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 PM on 02/21/2009

How is this the 3rd Bush Administration? I don't expect President Obama to repudiate everything Bush did. Only the policies that were objectively stupid--as many of them were. He's closed Guantanamo, started troop drawdown in Iraq, refocused on Afghanistan, sent envoys to the middle east, and Afghanistan, and Pakistan, reengaged in a collaborative fashion with our allies, guaranteed children healthcare, opened up the government policy to more transparency, offered to have dialogue with Iran, rejected deregulated laissez-faire capitalism, rejected tax cuts focused solely on the rich, refocused government priorities from satisfying only the wealthy to looking out for the welfare of the broader electorate. And you call that the 3rd Bush term? Get real.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:39 PM on 02/21/2009
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I'm jus sayin'.... I really enjoy your mental gymnastics here. Transparency? Show me one example of this. Just one. You're an apologist. But, my guess is that you'll see the folly in that soon enough. The koolaid will start tasting pretty bitter eventually.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 02/21/2009
- theMightyT I'm a Fan of theMightyT 182 fans permalink

reason2008 See Profile I'm a Fan of reason2008 permalink
Folks, here's the situation: In your eyes, EVERYTHING BUSH did was wrong or a lie.
==============================================================================

remember, back in 2001 or so, after the w.a.r started in Afghanistan and Bush had the country behind him, had allies on board, and was taking the fight to the ta.li.ban and al qua.e.da? Nobody thought he was wrong then.

then along came 2003, the neo con push to invade I.r.aq, and the abandonment of Afghanistan.

Since then, it's been the shredding of the constitution, illegal wiretapping, vetoing health care coverage for kids, vetoing stem cell research, politicizing the justice department, sex and drug parties at the ministry of the interior, suspension of Habeus Corpus...

What's not to like in all of that?

The real issue is not about Bush being wrong or ly.ing all the time. It's about an administration that seemed to encourage incompetence; turned a blind eye to corruption; encouraged hyperpartisanship; hid the true cost of the war from the American people; repeatedly l.i.ed and ultimately proved the old republican adage that government doesn't work.

My sympathies for being on the wrong side in all of this. Truly, the republican party has been hijacked by a group of folks so heavily invested in pure right-wing ideology that the resurgence of the right as a political force is really doubtful

Too bad, because not all authentically conservative ideas are bad ones.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:55 PM on 02/21/2009
- janeInCA I'm a Fan of janeInCA 5 fans permalink
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Constitutional rights are only applied to Americans. Geneva convention rights are for citizens who are not Americans.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 PM on 02/21/2009
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Thanks jane. I don't think you can make any clearer. The level of reading comprehension, or any comprehension, among lefties look to be around the 4th grade. LMAO. Being liberal must somehow adversely affect one's brain. LOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:04 PM on 02/21/2009
- Babzter I'm a Fan of Babzter 23 fans permalink
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You apparently find insulting "liberals" entertaining. Why do you stoop to that level if you believe your argument is cogent?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 02/21/2009
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Geneva conventions apply to POWs in declared wars. There hasn't been a declaration of war from congress only a Authorizations for use of Force. Also notice they are not being called POWs, there are commonly referred to as detainees or enemy combatants. Many are detained on faulty Intel and do not get a quick trial. Some of these people are innocent. There needs to be a new Convention Rights based on Insurgencies. The goals of a "war" of this kind should be based off of winning the hearts and minds.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:24 PM on 02/21/2009
- glockman I'm a Fan of glockman 47 fans permalink
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Only partially true. Constitutional rights are extended to anyone in this country, citizen or not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:58 PM on 02/21/2009
- janeInCA I'm a Fan of janeInCA 5 fans permalink
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Thanks for making it clearer. Sorry.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:10 PM on 02/21/2009
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Can anyone tell me?? Why can't a lot of people on this board read do a simple reading comprehension?? Even the writer make the whole thing sound gloomy. There is no torture here as it was during Bush's administration. These people are "prisoners or detainees of war". They are part of those people caught in the war front. You can't just release them and say "do well". Unless you want to risk US soldier's lives. Com'on people, understand this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:36 PM on 02/21/2009
- dhinds I'm a Fan of dhinds 29 fans permalink

Time waster wrote:

> These people are "prisoners or detainees of war"

When did Congress declare war on Afghanistan?

When the prisoners were caught, were they wearing a uniform?

> those people caught in the war front.

You are referring to people that are native to the area you call a war front, an area that was invaded by the USA's Military, which the USA's Government can then call a War Front.

Obama was the best candidate of the two possible winners of the Presidential Elections, but many of us are disappointed by a few of the decisions he's made as POTUS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 PM on 02/21/2009
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about a year ago, the prison in Kabul had a wall blown up and most of the detainees just ran away...around 200 of them. This prison was under the watch of the Afghani police and guards. The Canadian soldiers who captured them and turned them over to the Afghani's were shocked to discover that the prisoners were just allowed to leave.....

enemy combatants, military prisoners of war, what ever the title...will be a reality in afghanistan and the Geneva convention must apply....this is the beginning of winning the hearts and minds of the people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 PM on 02/21/2009
- noamjunior I'm a Fan of noamjunior 86 fans permalink

I guess all you Obama= bush posters forgot about GTMO and Abu Garib?
This position simply says foreign enemy combatants aren't entitled to the same constitutional protections that US citizens are.

Are you posters REALLY that confused that you think the US constitution is the same as the Geneva Convention?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 PM on 02/21/2009
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 660 fans permalink
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This is about executive power. Hasn't the last 8 years demonstrated how dangerous that is ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:31 PM on 02/21/2009
- noamjunior I'm a Fan of noamjunior 86 fans permalink

Really?
I would say the last 8 years proved how dangerous executive power is in the hand of a drunk sociopath pretending to be conservative.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:38 PM on 02/21/2009
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Na, were not confused, we're just amused at lefties' breathtaking hypocrisy on this and a host of other issues. LOL.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:36 PM on 02/21/2009
- marbiol I'm a Fan of marbiol 7 fans permalink

JUDAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:21 PM on 02/21/2009
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JUDAS?? For protecting the US military?? I though that's part of why you elected him. If I understood this correctly; these people are "prisoners of war" on the war front. To some fellow liberals who are concerned here, you can't just release "prisoners of war", or you threathen the lives of US militants. Do you want the US soldiers to be vulnerable?? This is not the same as the Guantanamo Bay, this is part of war front activities. And I don't think they are using any torture there either. They just hold hostage some "prisoners of war". Enough of "I voted for change", "Is this change?". He's trying to make the US soldier safe.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 PM on 02/21/2009
- JamesRiver I'm a Fan of JamesRiver 4 fans permalink

Ha, ha, ha!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:20 PM on 02/21/2009
- lynettema I'm a Fan of lynettema 57 fans permalink

My understanding of this article: Not exactly sure what Tina Foster wanted for these prisoners other than access to American courts. This ruling doesn't mean that prisoners are going to be tortured as they were under the Bush administration. It means that these detainees IN Afghanistan will be treated as POW's where military law will prevail. I am sure we have not heard the end story on how these prisoners will be handled.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:16 PM on 02/21/2009
- marbiol I'm a Fan of marbiol 7 fans permalink

if they are going to be treated as POWs--that is GREAT!!! Then, they will NOT BE RELEASED until either the Taleban (if they are Taleban) or Al-Qaeda (if they are Al-Qaeda) FORMALLY SURRENDER. NO TRIALS. NO TRIBUNALS. NO LEGAL REPRESENTATION. POWs until the war is over.

That's the perfect way to treat these people. Treatment as POWs per the Geneva Conventions should have been implemented for those in Guantonamo as well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:25 PM on 02/21/2009
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 660 fans permalink
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ALL repubs are happy with this news, shouldn't that give you pause ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:10 PM on 02/21/2009
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Do trqlls give you pause? I have shat more intelligent things than this article.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:15 PM on 02/21/2009
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 660 fans permalink
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Are you a reverse ditto head ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:19 PM on 02/21/2009
- Luvial I'm a Fan of Luvial 17 fans permalink

Obama has found the way to bring Democrats and Republicans together: Barefooted Muslims living in mud huts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:17 PM on 02/21/2009

Here's the deal guys. Obama's been left with a hard choice in this matter. Bush had created a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation for this policy. If he gave them rights then they would have to be let go just because of the way Bush handled things to begin with. Then the question would be, "who did we let go and what will they do now?". I really hate to say this but until Obama comes up with a better idea on what to do with the real terrorist, the innocent, and the innocent's whom become bitter to seek vengence...it may be best to leave the policy as is until something else can be formed. I don't think this policy is indefinite but temporary.

Lets be real folks. WE HAVE ENEMIES! Do you honestly think just because Obama closed Gautanamo, and gave detainess rights that they won't turn around and seek vengence. Are YOU prepared to face the consequences of more terrorist attacks? I'm on the fence with this one. At the end of the day, America's safety comes first.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 PM on 02/21/2009
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 660 fans permalink
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An ends justify the means kinda guy are you ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 PM on 02/21/2009
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He's so blindly, ignorantly left that extreme conservatives making arguments that they don't believe and trqlling make sense to him. He's the target of their bait. There is no reasoning with either extreme of the spectrum.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:43 PM on 02/21/2009
- elcojonu I'm a Fan of elcojonu 28 fans permalink

This, the additional troops for Afghanistan, the prolonged Iraqi pull-out may all become academic if there is a total economic collapse which now looks more likely than not.
It's bad and becoming worse, much worse.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:07 PM on 02/21/2009
- Luvial I'm a Fan of Luvial 17 fans permalink

History shows that war is the way governments distract people from revolting over economic collapse.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:15 PM on 02/21/2009
- Meah I'm a Fan of Meah 52 fans permalink
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I guess the Geneva Conventions does not apply in Afghanistan. Simple as that. What are you thinking Mr.President?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:04 PM on 02/21/2009
- lynettema I'm a Fan of lynettema 57 fans permalink

This says "constitutional" law does not apply to these prisoners. The Obama administration has already declared that the Geneva Convention will be observed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:17 PM on 02/21/2009
- PWM I'm a Fan of PWM 288 fans permalink
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Republicans don't pay attention to anything Obama says.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:31 PM on 02/21/2009
- theMightyT I'm a Fan of theMightyT 182 fans permalink

reason2008 See Profile I'm a Fan of reason2008 permalink
Folks, here's the situation: In your eyes, EVERYTHING BUSH did was wrong or a lie.
==============================================================================

remember, back in 2001 or so, after the w.a.r started in Afghanistan and Bush had the country behind him, had allies on board, and was taking the fight to the ta.li.ban and al qua.e.da? Nobody thought he was wrong then.

then along came 2003, the neo con push to invade I.r.aq, and the abandonment of Afghanistan.

Since then, it's been the shredding of the constitution, illegal wiretapping, vetoing health care coverage for kids, vetoing stem cell research, politicizing the justice department, sex and drug parties at the ministry of the interior, suspension of Habeus Corpus...

What's not to like in all of that?

The real issue is not about Bush being wrong or ly.ing all the time. It's about an administration that seemed to encourage incompetence; turned a blind eye to corruption; encouraged hyperpartisanship; hid the true cost of the war from the American people; repeatedly l.i.ed and ultimately proved the old republican adage that government doesn't work.

My sympathies for being on the wrong side in all of this. Truly, the republican party has been hijacked by a group of folks so heavily invested in pure right-wing ideology that the resurgence of the right as a political force is really doubtful

Too bad, because not all authentically conservative ideas are bad ones.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 PM on 02/21/2009
- Luvial I'm a Fan of Luvial 17 fans permalink

The fact that there has not been another sophisticated attack like 9-11 proves one thing...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 PM on 02/21/2009
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 660 fans permalink
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Let me guess , that the Constitution is just a gawd d*mn piece of paper ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:04 PM on 02/21/2009
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No, that was the Bushtar.dian Doctrine.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:17 PM on 02/21/2009
- gonnuts I'm a Fan of gonnuts 15 fans permalink

So I guess you don't think the Anthrax attacks matter? Or that attacks worldwide have increased 5-fold? Or maybe no more 9/11's occurred because when you're the one creating them you can control them.

Bet if things keep getting worse and people start revolting they'll be another one. Any takers?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:37 PM on 02/21/2009
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