Lord Nicholas Stern Paints Dire Climate Change Scenario: Mass Migrations, Extended World War

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CHARLES J. HANLEY | 02/21/09 06:57 PM | AP

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Mass Migration

CAPE TOWN, South Africa — If we don't deal with climate change decisively, "what we're talking about then is extended world war," the eminent economist said.

His audience Saturday, small and elite, had been stranded here by bad weather and were talking climate. They couldn't do much about the one, but the other was squarely in their hands. And so, Lord Nicholas Stern was telling them, was the potential for mass migrations setting off mass conflict.

"Somehow we have to explain to people just how worrying that is," the British economic thinker said.

Stern, author of a major British government report detailing the cost of climate change, was one of a select group of two dozen _ environment ministers, climate negotiators and experts from 16 nations _ scheduled to fly to Antarctica to learn firsthand how global warming might melt its ice into the sea, raising ocean levels worldwide.

Their midnight flight was scrubbed on Friday and Saturday because of high winds on the southernmost continent, 3,000 miles from here. While waiting at their Cape Town hotel for the gusts to ease down south, chief sponsor Erik Solheim, Norway's environment minister, improvised with group exchanges over coffee and wine about the future of the planet.

"International diplomacy is all about personal relations," Solheim said. "The more people know each other, the less likely there will be misunderstandings."

Understandings will be vital in this "year of climate," as the world's nations and their negotiators count down toward a U.N. climate conference in Copenhagen in December, target date for concluding a grand new deal to replace the Kyoto Protocol _ the 1997 agreement, expiring in 2012, to reduce carbon dioxide and other global-warming emissions by industrial nations.

Solheim drew together key players for the planned brief visit to Norway's Troll Research Station in East Antarctica.

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Trying on polar outfits for size on Friday were China's chief climate negotiator Xie Zhenhua, veteran U.S. climate envoy Dan Reifsnyder, and environment ministers Hilary Benn of Britain and Carlos Minc Baumfeld of Brazil.

Later, at dinner, the heavyweights heard from smaller or poorer nations about the trials they face as warming disrupts climate, turns some regions drier, threatens food production in poor African nations.

Jose Endundo, environment minister of Congo, said he recently visited huge Lake Victoria in nearby Uganda, at 80,000 square kilometers (31,000 square miles) a vital source for the Nile River, and learned the lake level had dropped 3 meters (10 feet) in the past six years _ a loss blamed in part on warmer temperatures and diminishing rains.

In the face of such threats, "the rich countries have to give us a helping hand," the African minister said.

But it was Stern, former chief World Bank economist, who on Saturday laid out a case to his stranded companions in sobering PowerPoint detail.

If the world's nations act responsibly, Stern said, they will achieve "zero-carbon" electricity production and zero-carbon road transport by 2050 _ by replacing coal power plants with wind, solar or other energy sources that emit no carbon dioxide, and fossil fuel-burning vehicles with cars running on electric or other "clean" energy.

Then warming could be contained to a 2-degree-Celsius (3.4-degree-Fahrenheit) rise this century, he said.

But if negotiators falter, if emissions reductions are not made soon and deep, the severe climate shifts and sea-level rises projected by scientists would be "disastrous."

It would "transform where people can live," Stern said. "People would move on a massive scale. Hundreds of millions, probably billions of people would have to move if you talk about 4-, 5-, 6-degree increases" _ 7 to 10 degrees Fahrenheit. And that would mean extended global conflict, "because there's no way the world can handle that kind of population move in the time period in which it would take place."

Melting ice, rising seas, dwindling lakes and war _ the stranded ministers had a lot to consider. But many worried, too, that the current global economic crisis will keep governments from transforming carbon-dependent economies just now. For them, Stern offered a vision of working today on energy-efficient economies that would be more "sustainable" in the future.

"The unemployed builders of Europe should be insulating all the houses of Europe," he said.

After he spoke, Norwegian organizers announced that the forecast looked good for Stern and the rest to fly south on Sunday to further ponder the future while meeting with scientists in the forbidding vastness of Antarctica.

CAPE TOWN, South Africa — If we don't deal with climate change decisively, "what we're talking about then is extended world war," the eminent economist said. His audience Saturday, small and el...
CAPE TOWN, South Africa — If we don't deal with climate change decisively, "what we're talking about then is extended world war," the eminent economist said. His audience Saturday, small and el...
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- seted I'm a Fan of seted 25 fans permalink
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I think that not only do we need to reduce ALL pollution in our environment, we need to seriously do something about population levels. One enormous road block in the way of that is the Catholic Church. They have a strangle hold on a lot of second and third world countries and have made it Taboo to practice any form of birth control to increase their numbers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:13 AM on 02/23/2009
- V4Vendetta I'm a Fan of V4Vendetta 6 fans permalink
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You are correct. I find it truly disturbing that supposedly eminent thinkers do not mention overpopulation as the true cause of climate change and the energy/resource crisis. Perhaps they think climate change and peak oil will solve the overpopulation problem. They will find that the Earth will shrug off the elites just as easily as us peons.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 PM on 02/23/2009

Every problem in the world is caused by overpopulation, but they will wait a few decades before they get brave enough to say something about it. People don't like to hear that they need to reduce the size of their litter. The people doing the most breeding are the least likely to understand the ramifications of having too many of one species (any species, especially the most destructive) to rule over the planet. If there were too many elephants knocking-down trees everywhere, we would reduce the population. If there were too many whales, we would reduce their population (to save them). When there are too many deer, we hunt them (to protect them). There are too many humans, but we don't have the heart to tell them. One of the reasons I haven't had kids is knowing what kind of people they will have to share the planet with....and they're not the type to share.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 PM on 02/23/2009
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You're right. The population escalation is one of the prime factors in what, in the worst case as envisioned, is horror and hardship. The interests who have put money as their immortality have reaped the whirlwind? or is that too melodramatic?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:04 PM on 02/23/2009
- Gasparilla I'm a Fan of Gasparilla 29 fans permalink

Is perhaps soot from burning of coal in massive amounts in Asia reflecting sunlight and keeping down temperatures?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:20 AM on 02/23/2009
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Probably the most important post at Huff Post in the last six months.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:05 AM on 02/23/2009
- cinesimon I'm a Fan of cinesimon 58 fans permalink

Funny how the deniers can provide NO scientific data - to them, it's all about 'fanatics' who're trying to profit from the fear.

Sounds like right wing projection to me, or if you're part of the Alex Jones fantasy land: well, you get your info from a deranged man with no history of ever spending any real time studying what he proposes to know so much about.
Kind of like the Rush Limbaugh for conspiracy theorists.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 AM on 02/23/2009

If by 'deniers' you mean skeptics, I suggest you go here and read-up...
http://wattsupwiththat.com/ these folks use data from both sides of the argument and so far have found that the AGW callamity is a hoax.

There is more than enough science, and scientists, that disagree with the present day alarmism concerning AGW.
http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/another-big-lie/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:31 PM on 02/23/2009
- javadawg I'm a Fan of javadawg 9 fans permalink

Here's the thing, as a scientist, I say What if you are right and we clean up our act and conserve and straighten our polluting ways ? Did we do any harm ? No.
Now what if we are right and you did nothing and we changed the climate to a point of drastically altering the way life operates on the planet - what are you gong to say - Sorry ?

The risk to the planet is to high to be wrong about this and all I hear are the fools on the right saying it cost too much.

We can't afford to be wrong - and if just a little caring - a few preventative actions - and an altruism towards the planet might go a long way.

To all the right wing Republicans I ask - What if you are wrong ? What if we do nothing and climate changes drastically - what will you tell your grandchildren ? I did it for money ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:10 PM on 02/23/2009
- rshrink I'm a Fan of rshrink 57 fans permalink

The key to this is that "They use data," to get the results they already believe. These web sites are there to promote the Republican agenda even if they deny it. They are deniers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:33 PM on 02/23/2009
- cinesimon I'm a Fan of cinesimon 58 fans permalink

I find it very amusing that people who consider themselves 'skeptics' when it comes to climate change/global warming, are quite happy to accept the evidence pushed forth by the Bush white house, who were given irrefutable data by Nasa,government climate scientists, EPA, independent etc - the overwhelming consensus is that we have a major problem

But Bush's hard right base(for whom Rush Limbaugh is a political scholar) won't accept that, so he got his political gutters to rewrite the report.

The so-called 'skeptics' are actually more willing to believe politicians over science - and they call the SCIENTISTS fanatics?

PROJECTION, ANYONE?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 AM on 02/23/2009
- mh01 I'm a Fan of mh01 25 fans permalink

Climate change in the hands of government is not about climate, its about control.

The fact that skeptics are harrassed, vilified, threatened, or otherwise shouted down should be the first clue to any reasonable person that there is a lot more at work here than just climate change.

Which brings up the second thing that should have the common sense alarm bells going off in any reasonable persons mind.....what exactly is the problem, Global warming? Or cooling? Or climate change?

The fear was global cooling in the 1970's. It was global warming in the 1990's. Now its climate change, or for Al Gore, its climate catastrophe. And in each case we were certain of doom, and in each case we were wrong.

Well the only thing consistent about climate is that it changes, why should we re-order an entire global industrial and economic system over something that is doing exactly what its supposed to be doing, climate is changing.

Finally, if the national weather service can only predict local weather to a (usually less than 50%) probablity, what on earth would make me believe that the UN can predict global climate change.

Global warming is fear monger for social change, and to wrest more control of your life from your hands to theirs.

Read Red Hot Lies, it will blow your doors off.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:08 PM on 02/22/2009
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"The surest sign that an aristocracy exists is the discovery of barriers against change, curtains of iron or steel or stone or of any substance which excludes the new, the different."

- Frank Herbert

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare
already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our
country."

- Thomas Jefferson

You are correct; it is about control, the continuing *corporate* control of democratic government to reserve the interests and institutions of a self-anointed aristocracy. You are also correct that there is more at work here than just climate change; the conflict is between those of us who hold our children's future as something worth fighting for, and those who are only interested in their current lifestyle and positions of privilege, and care for nothing beyond their own egos.

Science denying is appealing to ignorance for no other cause than to defend a status quo that is about to collapse under its own dead weight, and caring not a whit if we're all crushed under the rubble when the whole crack-riddled edifice comes tumbling down.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 PM on 02/22/2009
- mh01 I'm a Fan of mh01 25 fans permalink

So what would you call the treatment of scientists who disagree with Global warming? Would that be science denying? Or how about witch hunting?

Industrialization and economic advancement has lifted more people out of poverty that anything in the history of mankind.

I only suggest that we spend a little more time on the science before we throw that system out the door.

That, Mr. Erickson, is also thinking about children, and our children's children.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 AM on 02/23/2009
- rshrink I'm a Fan of rshrink 57 fans permalink

The above is a load of c o m p l e t e ________! It is full of straw men, demons and fake enemies and promoted by the real enemies, which the Black Widow points out in an eloquent and accurate manner below, so I will leave it at that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 PM on 02/22/2009
- Pharos I'm a Fan of Pharos 9 fans permalink

Why don't you do some research before polluting with your nonsense. Firstly, scientists were not predicting global cooling in the 1970s, some were speculating but the majority were not. The media made a big deal of it, the peer reviewed journals did not. Secondly weather is not the same as climate. Any amount of even half hearted research would have discovered that. The issue is global (not local) warming, not weather. You comments are 100% wrong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 PM on 02/22/2009
- mh01 I'm a Fan of mh01 25 fans permalink

Interesting. Some scientists were speculating about global cooling, and the media picked it up and ran with it? That sounds a bit like scientists predicting global warming, and the media running with it. There has been no net global warming in the past 10 years, and so now we are talking about climate change.

There is science on both sides, but only one side calls the other flat-earhters, deniers, or otherwise shouts them down. I wonder why that is.

As for weather vs. climate, if you can't decipher my comment, i don't know what to say, let me try again.

The difficulty in predicting weather (local) is manifest in the fact that they get it wrong about as often as getting it right. it seems natural to state that, when trying to predict global climate, the difficulty is even greater.

And so far, all of the sophisticated modeling has done a poor job of matching with experienced observation on a global level.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:52 AM on 02/23/2009
- cinesimon I'm a Fan of cinesimon 58 fans permalink

Such pathetic projection

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:14 AM on 02/23/2009
- doriath22 I'm a Fan of doriath22 9 fans permalink

Climate Change deniers should not be vilified. They should be treated like children, or ignored altogether

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:09 AM on 02/23/2009

Yet another well thought out and mature argument by this misguided individual. I would be surprised if you have even read a _single_ article in any journal related to climate change. You are buying 100% into what a political machine is telling you and then slamming your opposition without any type of logic. A true modern crusader.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:38 PM on 02/23/2009
- stunsitfel I'm a Fan of stunsitfel 34 fans permalink
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TakAccording to the National Climate Data Center 2008 temperatures in the USA were below the 114 year average for most of the country.

*NASA announced that 2008 global temperatures were significantly cooler than 2007, the coolest since 2000 and below the average of the last 30 years.

*temperatures that were once rising are now falling rapidly, 1998 was a warm year but the ten years since have each been cooler.

*Spring '08 and October '08 in the USA were the 36ths coolest in 114 years, December was the 35th coolest same month, -.9F below the average

*According to the University of Illinois Arctic research center when combining total global sea ice for December 2008 (Arctic and Antarctic) the amount of ice was equal to 1979. The above average Summer melting of the Arctic sea ice has been more than offset by growth in the Antarctic sea ice which exceeded 1979 levels in ten of eleven months in 2008. The Antarctic had a record amount of ice in 2008, and had as much as one million square kilometers more ice than the average of the 1979-2008 period, an increase in over 17%.

*there is no net loss of polar sea ice when adding the total volume at ice at both poles!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:40 PM on 02/22/2009

The sun is warming. Massive solar activity. The sun is the main driver of climate throughout the solar system. How is it that carbon emissions on planet Earth cause the polar ice caps of Mars to recede while the ice moons of Saturn and Jupiter melt into liquid seas? How is it that SUVs and coal factories on Earth cause not just global warming but solar system warming?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:00 PM on 02/22/2009
- MGhamma I'm a Fan of MGhamma 12 fans permalink

What about Neptune, Uranus, Venus, Mercury? I guess you just forgot about those, huh jones?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:27 PM on 02/22/2009
- Pharos I'm a Fan of Pharos 9 fans permalink

How much is the sun warming? Data please, (in the proper units for temperature).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 AM on 02/23/2009
- cinesimon I'm a Fan of cinesimon 58 fans permalink

USJones, you have NO data about that - get over yourself.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 AM on 02/23/2009
- Exusian I'm a Fan of Exusian 25 fans permalink

"1998 was a warm year but the ten years since have each been cooler."

Is a perfect example of both cherry-picking and deliberate misinformation.

Never mind that by any criteria that you care to choose, 1998 was an outlier that was well above the long term trend.

Never mind that every year since since 1997 has in fact been warmer than 1997.

Never mind the fact that the temperature record continued to rise until 2005 or 2007, depending on the data set you use.

Anyone who chooses to start or end a temperature comparison with 1998 is hoping that you are ignorant about statistics and is deliberately attempting to mislead you and lie to you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:18 PM on 02/22/2009
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I find it somewhat amusing that almost as soon as the skeptics pointed out what the climate change fanatic's own data already stated, that global warming subsided in 1998, the fanatics went back into the data to pull out arctic temperatures that proved "2005 was the hottest in over a century". Let's just forget that reliable arctic temps are less than 40 years old.

Honestly, I don't know if Earth is getting warmer or if mankind is causing it. I am however, absolutely convinced that the fanatics of global warming don't know either.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=aIe9swvOqwIY

Feb. 20 (Bloomberg) -- A glitch in satellite sensors caused scientists to underestimate the extent of Arctic sea ice by 500,000 square kilometers (193,000 square miles), a California- size area, the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center said.

--and then the mandatory caviat--

The recent error doesn’t change findings that Arctic ice is retreating, the NSIDC said.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:40 PM on 02/22/2009
- MGhamma I'm a Fan of MGhamma 12 fans permalink

stunsitfel, here's a link for you to read, if you dare. www.climateprogress.org/2009/02/15/george-will-global-cooling-warming-debunked/. Seems the University of Illinois Arctic Research Center is tired of BEING MISQUOTED by you deniers. They have some interesting things to say about the Antarctic to. Nothing about the combined total equaling 1779. I hear that toe jam goes good with peanut butter. Yum.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 PM on 02/22/2009
- Pharos I'm a Fan of Pharos 9 fans permalink

Ten year average global temperature. Where do you see cooling?
Do you know the difference between weather and climate? Do you understand that global warming does not imply every point on the earth will be warmer? Are you talking about the volume of ice or the area of the ice?

-0.26 1880 to 1889
-0.27
-0.26 1900 to 1909
-0.29
-0.15
-0.03
0.06
-0.03 1950 to 1959
-0.02
-0.01
0.18
0.32
0.51 2000 to 2008

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:47 PM on 02/22/2009
- Tim303 I'm a Fan of Tim303 87 fans permalink
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Good point. You can't see climate, just like you can't see momentum. You can see weather and you can see velocity. Computers can just about model climate with terabytes of RAM.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:52 PM on 02/23/2009
- glockman I'm a Fan of glockman 39 fans permalink
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"Human sacrifice, dogs and cats sleeping together, mass hysteria..."

Sheesh.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:22 PM on 02/22/2009

I'm sick of this demonization of carbon dioxide, a gas which we exhale and which plants and trees breath. It is not a noxious or poisonous gas as the propaganda states. It is not a catalyst or cause of this so-called climate change crisis. Why are we begging monster-sized governments to regulate and tax our carbon emissions? We do we want to live in a nanny state where every facet of your consumption is subject to scrutiny? What do we want monitors attached to our thermostats, our odometers, our electrical meters and our flier miles? Why do we want to tighten the noose on our already-diminished industrial base so American factories are forced to move overseas where there are no carbon emissions restrictions? Why do we think we can save the planet by forcing developing countries to develop their infrastructures around experimental solar and wind energy sources? Why are we trying to save the planet by demonizing the same industrialization which provides us with the goods and services we enjoy? Man-made climate change is a fraud. The power elite are hijacking and manipulating the environmental movement as a pretext to impose global carbon taxes on the populus. There are real enemies and villains at work here. Carbon is not one of them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:42 PM on 02/22/2009
- rshrink I'm a Fan of rshrink 57 fans permalink

This is the diatribe of the duped who have spent far too much time listening to Hannity and Limbaugh, known "experts" on everything. Don't bother trying to keep up with the Jones.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:58 PM on 02/22/2009

I do not listen to Hannity, Limbaugh, Anderson Cooper, Wolf Blitzer or any of the bought-and-paid-for talking heads on the corporate-­controlled mainstream media disinformation channels.

Try alternative, nonpartisan news sources.

INFOWARS.COM

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:05 PM on 02/22/2009

you're kidding right? what is wrong with a clean environment? hedging the future is probably a good idea. you obviously work for an oil industry or fundamental religious group.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:01 PM on 02/22/2009

"you obviously work for an oil industry or fundamental religious group."

Sorry -- I work in the animation industry. Evidently, anyone who dares question man-made global warming is some sort of paid disinformant. It is so easy to attack the messenger instead of refute the message.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:34 PM on 02/22/2009

There are real environmental issues to address without demonizing manufacturing and human population.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:44 PM on 02/22/2009
- marinade I'm a Fan of marinade 39 fans permalink

How about those ice shelves. Over 5200 square miles have melted in 30 years. This isn't a natural trend.

It's naive to think that 600,000,000 automobiles wouldn't have an effect on global warming. And automobiles produce a fraction of emissions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:05 PM on 02/22/2009

"Put a price on the carbon. A tax is the best way."

-Al Gore

Folks, this is all about the TAX!!! Taxing human existence and development. Wake up from the global warming deception.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:50 PM on 02/22/2009
- Gasparilla I'm a Fan of Gasparilla 29 fans permalink

Who said carbon dioxide was a "poisonous gas"?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:25 PM on 02/22/2009
- Tim303 I'm a Fan of Tim303 87 fans permalink
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The EPA, very soon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:52 PM on 02/23/2009
- Pharos I'm a Fan of Pharos 9 fans permalink

The error of your argument has been pointed out to you before. Why do you keep repeating it. Do you just hope there is a different audience here?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:50 PM on 02/22/2009


This man needs to take a Valium and calm down. What is the point of all that hysterical doom saying?
The fact is that this guy has no guarantee, as do any of us, that we will live another 24 hours. Or 24 minutes. So chill. Now is the appointed time. Have a little faith. The human race is nothing if not clever and resourceful. Remember when the zero population people were predicting world famines by the "90's" Never happened. So cheer up. We can solve these problems if we all put our heads together.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:23 PM on 02/22/2009
- marinade I'm a Fan of marinade 39 fans permalink

The key is to put our heads together and do something now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:07 PM on 02/22/2009
- rshrink I'm a Fan of rshrink 57 fans permalink

One has to first recognize a problem or otherwise nothing will be done about it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:58 PM on 02/22/2009
- mh01 I'm a Fan of mh01 25 fans permalink

I would also submit that those who have been selling us on this problem need to do more to test their beliefs against emerging science, and spend a little less time trying to shout down or otherwise destroy or silence those who question apw.

I have found those who claim most strongly that the science favors their viewpoint, are usually the least concerned about the scientific method, and there is something frightening about that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 PM on 02/22/2009

Global warming is a myth (NOT) - oh wait, George Bush says it is! So end of discussion!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:34 PM on 02/22/2009
- zizyphus I'm a Fan of zizyphus 105 fans permalink
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I think every town, county and state should be planting fruit and nut trees as well as other valuable trees everywhere they can to improve the air and provide resources.

Every family should make their land a showpiece of productivity, growing their own foods and medicines. Lawns are an unsustainable Victorian relic, dependent on labor and gas. Instead, convert it to a patch of beautiful, delicious sweet potatoes or black eye peas. Put it all in berry bushes. Make it provide for you, not just be a drain on your resources. Make a biosphere for yourself that represents the sustainable future you wish for our planet.

A few years ago, I learned about Masanobu Fukuoka, and read his "One Straw Revolution". It was so uplifting and inspiring. If we all made the most of what we have, what a different world it would become, as all the biospheres ultimately link up and refresh the planet.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:38 PM on 02/22/2009
- rblackbird I'm a Fan of rblackbird 9 fans permalink

This sounds like a good idea. But, I wonder. It would seem that this farming would be very dependent on compost piles to generate natural fertilizer. Compost piles cause the degeneration of organic matter. This process releases CO2 which is vital to plant growth. This is why compost is such an excellent fertilizer. If everybody adopted your suggestion there would be a vast increase in compost piles releasing substantially greater amounts of CO2. How do we reduce our carbon footprints if we all have compost piles?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:19 PM on 02/22/2009

Because the produce we then consume would not have travelled anywhere. Eating local, in-season produce vastly reduces the carbon footprint. And, CO2 from the compost would be taken in by the newly-planted trees, bushes, etc. and breathed out as oxygen.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:59 PM on 02/22/2009
- LintLass I'm a Fan of LintLass 23 fans permalink

Silly, Blackbird.

Composting is carbon-neutral: it's not the same as digging up fossil fuels and *adding* CO2 to the biosphere, as long as you're not ripping down an ecosystem to *do* it, all that's involved is in the system to begin with. It's better than *burying* garbage in landfills, certainly, then you get big pockets of *methane,* which is an even worse greenhouse gas when it gets out.

Petroleum-based fertilizers on a chemically-fed lawn and shipping things all over the country certainly isn't an answer:

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:22 PM on 02/22/2009
- UbiVeritas I'm a Fan of UbiVeritas 3 fans permalink

AGW adherents always argue that only climate scientists possess the knowledge to pontificate on global warming. This guy is an economist, so by definition he is disqualified from having anything useful to say on the topic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 PM on 02/22/2009
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No, those of us who care about our children's future recognize that a horde of climatologists, biologists, marine biologists, et al have far more credibility than a relative handful of science deniers, oil industry shills, and outright quacks and their desperate-­to-deny-em­pirical-fa­cts followers.

BTW, you received your training in the Sciences where?

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 02/22/2009
- rblackbird I'm a Fan of rblackbird 9 fans permalink

Where did Al Gore receive his scientific training?

For that matter, where did you do your training in the Sciences? What specifically was your field and what is the highest degree you earned?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:11 PM on 02/22/2009
- AngieMom57 I'm a Fan of AngieMom57 68 fans permalink
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Just call it World Pollution Crises; which is what it is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:37 PM on 02/22/2009
- rshrink I'm a Fan of rshrink 57 fans permalink

Ubi, going on being wrong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:35 PM on 02/22/2009
- realpolitic I'm a Fan of realpolitic 148 fans permalink

Well, many of us may have useful opinions on a subject, but our opinions may not change the underlying scientific arguments. Economist's opinions will be important in determining the cost/benefits responses to approaches to lower CO2 emissions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:23 AM on 02/23/2009
- MyTake I'm a Fan of MyTake 31 fans permalink
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Gee, is there any chance that Al Gore will stay in that EMISSIONS FREE Antarctica house for a few months. I will pay his flight cost to get up there.

I wonder if these CLIMATE CHANGE CHAMPIONS are running hydrogen fuel cell electrical generators up there to aid there comfort level. And couldn't they have airdropped in a couple of gaunt looking polar bears to finish off this picture which the allied corporate media will pound the public with over the next year?

It would be nice to sit this British Lord and the current EU President, Czech Prime Minister Topolánek, in the same room for a few minutes as Mr. Topolánek has called Climate Change the worst scam in history.

As for the mass migrations and global war scare mongering, if the U.S. would just release its "wafer" technology to the world, then everyone would be adequately nourished and would just stay home.

The technology exists today to embed all the vitamins, minerals and nutrients required to sustain life into a simple edible wafer that people consume 3-4 times per day which would eliminate the massive amounts of energy required for raising and killing of animals and birds, raising crops etc for us just to fill our faces 3 or more times a day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 PM on 02/22/2009
- cinesimon I'm a Fan of cinesimon 58 fans permalink

You really think the U.S is the only one with such old technology?

duuuhhhh

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 AM on 02/23/2009
- barriosbabe I'm a Fan of barriosbabe 240 fans permalink
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So what areas are safer for cheapo retirement? Away from oceans, flatlands and mountains? What, like a hillside in Montana? Yeah I know, I'm thinking catastrophes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:32 PM on 02/22/2009
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You'd do better IMHO to think of what you can do to help stave off this worst case scenario.

If this is allowed to come to pass, there will be nowhere to hide.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 PM on 02/22/2009
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