Most Immigrants In Detention Did Not Have Criminal Record, Reports AP

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MICHELLE ROBERTS | March 15, 2009 11:13 PM EST | AP

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This photo released by Lauren Rivera shows Sarjina Emy in an April 2006 photo. Emy, a 20-year-old former honors student, spent nearly two years in a Florida lockup, because her parents' asylum claim was denied when she was a child. (AP Photo/Lauren Rivera)

America's detention system for immigrants has mushroomed in the last decade, a costly building boom that was supposed to sweep up criminals and ensure that undocumented immigrants were quickly shown the door.

Instead, an Associated Press computer analysis of every person being held on a recent Sunday night shows that most did not have a criminal record and many were not about to leave the country _ voluntarily or via deportation.

An official Immigration and Customs Enforcement database, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, showed a U.S. detainee population of exactly 32,000 on the evening of Jan. 25.

The data show that 18,690 immigrants had no criminal conviction, not even for illegal entry or low-level crimes like trespassing. More than 400 of those with no criminal record had been incarcerated for at least a year. A dozen had been held for three years or more; one man from China had been locked up for more than five years.

Nearly 10,000 had been in custody longer than 31 days _ the average detention stay that ICE cites as evidence of its effective detention management.

Especially tough bail conditions are exacerbated by disregard or bending of the rules regarding how long immigrants can be detained.

Based on a 2001 ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court, ICE has about six months to deport or release immigrants after their case is decided. But immigration lawyers say that deadline is routinely missed. In the system snapshot provided to the AP, 950 people were in that category.

The detainee buildup began in the mid 1990s, long before the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Since 2003, though, Congress has doubled to $1.7 billion the amount dedicated to imprisoning immigrants, as furor over "criminal aliens" intertwined with post-9/11 fears and anti-immigrant political rhetoric.

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But the dragnet has come to include not only terrorism suspects and cop killers, but an honors student who was raised in Orlando, Fla.; a convenience store clerk who begged to go back to Canada; and a Pentecostal minister who was forcibly drugged by ICE agents after he asked to contact his wife, according to court records.

Immigration lawyers note that substantial numbers of detainees, from 177 countries in the data provided, are not illegal immigrants at all. Many of the longest-term non-criminal detainees are asylum seekers fighting to stay here because they fear being killed in their home country. Others are longtime residents who may be eligible to stay under other criteria, or whose applications for permanent residency were lost or mishandled, the lawyers say.

Still other long-term detainees include people who can't be deported because their home country won't accept them or people who seemingly have been forgotten in the behemoth system, where 58 percent have no lawyers or anyone else advocating on their behalf.

___

ICE says detention is the best way to guarantee that immigrants attend court hearings and leave the country when ordered.

"It's ensuring compliance, and if you look at the stats, for folks who are in detention, the stats are pretty darn high," said ICE spokeswoman Cori Bassett.

By comparison though, most criminal suspects, even sometimes those accused of heinous offenses, are entitled to bail.

For detainees, ICE agents make an initial determination whether someone is eligible for bond. Federal law says most criminals, some asylum seekers, arriving immigrants who have problems with their documentation and those recently ordered removed from the country must remain in detention.

"We're immigrants, and it makes it seem like it's worse than a criminal," said Sarjina Emy, a 20-year-old former honors student who spent nearly two years in a Florida lockup because her parents' asylum claim was denied when she was a child. "I always thought America does so much for justice. I really thought you get a fair trial. You actually go to court. (U.S. authorities) know what they are doing. Now, I figured out that it only works for criminal citizens."

Some advocates and lawyers complain that ICE often stretches the definition of non-bondable categories to keep immigrants in custody. Immigrants can appeal adverse determinations, but while their claim works through the court system, they remain jailed.

For example, Zoubir Bouchikhi, an Algerian imam who has lived legally in the United States for 11 years, said by phone from a Houston detention center that he was placed in custody early this year and classified as "an arriving alien," making him ineligible for bail. A homeowner with several U.S.-born children, Bouchikhi said he last entered the United States in 2006, on a legal visa.

The use of detention to ensure immigrants show up for immigration court comes at a high cost compared to alternatives like electronic ankle monitoring, which can track people for considerably less money per day.

Based on the amount budgeted for this fiscal year, U.S. taxpayers will pay about $141 a night _ the equivalent of a decent hotel room _ for each immigrant detained, even though paroling them on ankle monitors _ at a budgeted average daily cost of $13 _ has an almost perfect compliance rate, according to ICE's own stats.

Critics argue that since the immigration court system lacks the constitutional protections granted accused murderers and rapists, taxpayers are grossly overspending for a system that is inhumane and unfair.

"This is not an economically rational way of ensuring people show up, and it doesn't further justice," said Judy Rabinovitz of the American Civil Liberties Union's Immigrants Rights Project.

___

For years, ICE and its predecessor, the Immigration and Naturalization Service, had the power to detain immigrants. With little bed space or public clamor to lock people up, though, millions of foreigners quietly went about life in the United States.

In 1996, Congress passed a pair of laws requiring that immigrants who committed crimes be locked up for deportation, beginning a dramatic run-up in incarcerations. So-called "criminal aliens" _ immigrants convicted of a crime, including some misdemeanors like low-level drug crimes _ became mandatory detainees even if their original crime brought no prison time.

A system that housed 6,785 immigrants in 1994 now holds nearly five times that amount in 260 facilities across the country, most under contract with local governments or private companies. For this fiscal year, ICE has enough money budgeted for 33,400 people on any given night.

Groups that advocate limits on immigration see no problem with the growing use of incarceration, which they say is a deterrent.

"Just because you haven't committed a crime doesn't mean that you shouldn't be held in detention until you can be deported," said Ira Mehlman, a spokesman for the Federation for American Immigration Reform. Even though not every illegal immigrant can be held, "if you bust a certain amount, it sends a message."

The message hasn't resonated with Emy, who was raised in Orlando, Fla., but spent 20 months in a detention center even though she had no criminal record. She traded her Baby Phat clothes for a gray uniform and window-shopping at the mall for a law library behind razor wire.

Her only crime? Her parents, who feared her father's political affiliations endangered the family, brought her and two brothers to the United States from Bangladesh when she was 5, according to court documents.

She doesn't speak Bangla and never imagined a future without college. No one in her family realized her father's work certificate from the Labor Department didn't equate to legal immigration status.

Family members were rounded up in July 2007, treated as fugitives on a dated but active deportation order.

Her parents were deported first. Emy languished in custody while continuing her fight to stay.

But because the asylum application had been filed on behalf of the entire family, only the parents got a hearing. Emy never saw a judge, according to Emy and her attorney.

"Justice is not being served," she said from a prison pay phone.

In January, a federal appeals court denied her petition to stay in the U.S. Fearing she'd celebrate another birthday behind bars, Emy agreed to be deported and left the country Feb. 18.

Immigration law "is the only United States law where we punish the children for the actions of their parents," said Emy's attorney, Petia Vimitrova Knowles.

___

Immigration violations are considered civil, something akin to a moving violation in a car, so the government can imprison immigrants without many of the rights criminals receive: No court-appointed attorney for indigent defendants, no standard habeas corpus, no protection from double jeopardy, no guarantee of a speedy trial.

"You're locking up people without even a hearing," said Rabinovitz. "That, to me, is the outrage: basic due process. Since when do we allow the government to lock up people without even giving them a bond hearing?"

Most immigrants are navigating a complex legal system without an attorney. Fifty-eight percent went through immigration proceedings without an attorney in fiscal year 2007, according to the Executive Office for Immigration Review, a branch of the U.S. Justice Department.

Those who do have an attorney have little recourse if that lawyer turns out to be incompetent. In one of his last acts as Bush administration attorney general, Michael Mukasey reversed years of precedent by ruling that immigrants, unlike criminal defendants, cannot appeal on the grounds of incompetent counsel.

The Migration Policy Institute, a nonpartisan think tank that includes former officials from Republican and Democratic administrations, recently issued a study calling for numerous changes in the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees ICE, including allowing better access to legal counsel for incarcerated immigrants.

"People can be lost in that vortex, and they can be lost for years," said Donald Kerwin, who wrote the report with former INS Director Doris Meissner. "It's the reason why legal counsel is so crucial."

But, ICE officials often argue, immigrants largely hold the keys to their own freedom. If they simply agree to return to their home country, they can go, Bassett said.

"They're making a choice (that) they're going to appeal, which is their right," she said.

But even giving up, or winning a claim, doesn't always spell freedom because ICE acts as police officer, arraignment judge, jailer and prosecutor. It has sole jurisdiction over when a detained immigrant is sent back after a deportation order is issued, and can continue to hold immigrants while it appeals a decision that didn't go its way.

In 2007, an immigration judge ruled that Samuel Kambo, a former energy minister of Sierra Leone who had a master's degree and no criminal history, should be granted permanent residency after being detained for eight months. But ICE continued to hold him for four more months while it appealed. Kambo was released only after his lawyer went to federal court and made a successful constitutional challenge.

In another telling case, Ahmad Al-Shrmany, a 34-year-old Iraqi with no appeal pending, begged for a year to be deported and yet remained in detention. He wanted to be allowed to go to his native Iraq or his adopted Canada, where he had been granted asylum a decade ago. A lawyer filed a habeas corpus petition in December that went unanswered.

"Just deport me. That's your job," he said in a late January interview with the AP that ICE officials tried to block minutes before it was scheduled at a Houston lockup.

Less than a week after the interview, Al-Shrmany was deported to Canada, said his lawyer, Afreen Ahmed. Bassett said later the timing of the deportation was "completely coincidental."

In custody, Al-Shrmany had grown distraught.

"In Iraq, you can get killed one time. Here, this is not the life I was wishing for," he said from a cinderblock meeting room.

___

Immigrant advocates say ICE prefers incarceration for non-criminal immigrants, even though alternatives are available, for one major reason: to strong-arm people.

"When you're there for weeks and weeks or months or months, your determination to fight your charges is reduced," said Judy Green, a policy analyst with Justice Strategies, a nonpartisan think tank on incarceration issues. The goal is "to keep intense pressure on detainees to agree to removal and not to fight on whatever grounds they have for relief."

The Rev. Raymond Soeoth, a Pentecostal minister from Indonesia who had never been imprisoned, said his lengthy incarceration _ and the uncertainty of how long it would last _ wore on him as he fought his immigration case and pursued a lawsuit accusing ICE officials of forcibly drugging him and other detainees.

"We just wait. We cannot do anything," said Soeoth, who was released after more than two years, given a special visa as part of the government's settlement of the drugging lawsuit.

ICE officials argue that immigrants won't show up to hearings, or leave when ordered out, unless they're imprisoned. About a third of released immigrants with no electronic monitoring failed to show up to immigration court proceedings in fiscal year 2007, according to the Executive Office of Immigration Review.

Bassett said the failure-to-appear rate for actual deportation jumps to 95 to 97 percent with no electronic monitoring, the main reason groups like FAIR push for more use of detention.

Still, electronic monitoring has proven effective. ICE's intensive supervision program _ which includes electronic monitoring, curfews and other probation-like provisions _ has a 99 percent appearance rate at immigration hearings and 95 percent at final order hearings, according to ICE's fact sheets. The agency says 94 percent of those allowed to remain on electronic monitoring after they've been ordered deported leave when their appeals are exhausted.

The Migration Policy Institute says the agency should use electronic monitors to replace detention of immigrants without criminal records or even those with only nonviolent records who don't pose a risk to the community.

"What you've done is you've eliminated any fear of flight. The whole rationale for detention is to keep people from absconding, and in rare cases, protect the public," Kerwin said. "Alternatives can allow you to use detention space more judiciously."

Currently, an average of 2,700 immigrants per day are on electronic monitoring in "alternative to detention" programs budgeted to accommodate 13,000 people this year.

Immigrant advocates complain the agency is using the monitors mostly to supervise people who previously would have been released on bond or on their own recognizance _ not to reduce the number of people incarcerated.

"They're not trying to reduce bed space. Their goal is to have everybody in some kind of custodial program," said Andrea Black, coordinator for the nonprofit Detention Watch Network.

America's detention system for immigrants has mushroomed in the last decade, a costly building boom that was supposed to sweep up criminals and ensure that undocumented immigrants were quickly shown t...
America's detention system for immigrants has mushroomed in the last decade, a costly building boom that was supposed to sweep up criminals and ensure that undocumented immigrants were quickly shown t...
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I'm sorry, but I thought being in this country illegally was a crime in and of itself.

When did this change? Oh, it didn't?

Then this article is useless.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:44 PM on 03/15/2009
- wilray I'm a Fan of wilray 85 fans permalink
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Nothing has changed. Being in this country illegally is considered a civil or administrative matter not a criminal one. Overstaying your visa is not considered a crime. Entering the country illegally is considered a crime. Sneaking across the border is a crime. Remaining past the expiration of your student, visitor, or work visa would be a civil matter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 PM on 03/15/2009
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If Mexicans applied for entry, like citizens from other countries do, and come here legally, then there would be no need to hold people. So it's not our problem, it's theirs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:38 PM on 03/15/2009
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The problem is that the U.S. only allocates a certain amount of immigrant visas to Mexico - not enough apparently.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:45 PM on 03/15/2009

I fail to see the problem in that.

Not EVERYONE gets into all clubs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:50 PM on 03/15/2009

How do you define "enough"?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:52 PM on 03/15/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 74 fans permalink

plenty of visas are issued ........just more want in

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:56 PM on 03/15/2009
- SonnyBono I'm a Fan of SonnyBono 21 fans permalink

Yo, former Canadian dude - there are over 300 million people in this country - don't you think that the US should allocate visas based on the needs of this country rather than the "wants" of potential immigrants? Try to get a permanent resident visa into Mexico or Canada for that matter and see that those countries are pretty much interested in what you can provide for them. When a poor Guatemalan wants to move north into Mexico to improve his lot in life - the response is always - See you, wouldn't want to be you - the Mexican army rounds them out and sends them south - don't bother asking for a visa, they want people with money and skills that they need - not just a willingness to work hard and cheap.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:49 AM on 03/16/2009
- jweider I'm a Fan of jweider 30 fans permalink
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Illegals also come in through Canada. They're just as big of a problem as the Mexicans.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:20 PM on 03/15/2009
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Yeah, we "icebacks" are such a problem, 'eh? :-|

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:36 PM on 03/15/2009
- Vickster I'm a Fan of Vickster 16 fans permalink
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The problem is on the other side of the border, but perhaps not in the way you see it. I've read that a travel visa in Mexico cost $1,000.00, and that doesn't include the bribes that may have to be paid to local officials. Obviously, this is beyond the means of those people who come here to work for the minimum wage.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:23 PM on 03/15/2009
- zanzig I'm a Fan of zanzig 41 fans permalink

And how do you respond to the stories told in the above article, none of which refer to Mexican immigrants? The point is that quite a proportion of these people held in detention are seeking asylum due to a well-founded fear of persecution in their home countries. For America, which was founded by a people escaping from persecution in their own countries, to do such a thing is unconscionable. I say this with a strong sense of shame after 12 years of a racist and abusive government in Australia that treated asylum seekers in the same way, and with a clear conscience in knowing that I spent those 12 years fighting exactly the same system here. These immigration detention systems are set up and run by industrial complexes similar to your gigantic military industrial complexes. They are big business, and run to make a profit. The poor people caught in the system are lost. 2 clear examples in Australia were when we deported 2 Australian citizens, both of whom appeared to suffer from mental illness and were unable to communicate the truth to authorities, and also spoke English indifferently. One woman, of German origin was deported to a country she had never been to, and the other, a Filipina, was deported to the Phillipines and lost in that country in poverty for 2 years before she was found. You cannot conclude anything but that race is at the base of every decision made in this system.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:25 PM on 03/15/2009
- royevatom I'm a Fan of royevatom 11 fans permalink

The green card to work legally in the U S cost 750$ a year to possess. How many people who work the lowest paying jobs without any sort of benefit even medical care if they are injured are going to give up 750$ a year.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:42 PM on 03/15/2009
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I think you mean work permit. A Permanent Resident card is what used to be called the "green card."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:22 PM on 03/15/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 74 fans permalink

then go home

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 PM on 03/15/2009

This is barbaric and to be expected. Until our society cleans up it's act and put's the bigoted idiot's in line no one should even try to come to the US for anything. I meet a lot of ex-pats, from my time living in the UK (15 years) and my last 6 years living in Japan. No one I met is in any hurry to get back home. Its always the same - they should not be here send them back home crap. How about the CEOs who are not citizens - come to the US and bankrupt the economy? Do you republicans have anything to say about that? Of course not, they use you as foot soldiers for their causes. As long as they prop up your political party and ideology your ok with them. Anyone chasing the American Dream that's not American is not welcome I guess. Just a reminder - No One is American except the Native Americans. Your basically protecting stolen property.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:32 PM on 03/15/2009
- MRb1000 I'm a Fan of MRb1000 10 fans permalink

If the enter into America without following proper procedures, I guess they have a record now! They broke our laws. I say send them home now! So the can be with their family! If they were persecuted then the court should have mercy on them. if they were not persecuted, then send them back home! We cannot be all thing to all people. We need to follow our own laws. If we do not follow our laws, we will become a nation of lawlessness! Until the laws on the books are changed, we must up hold we have!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:31 PM on 03/15/2009
- aturner18 I'm a Fan of aturner18 6 fans permalink
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"ILLEGAL" IMMIGRANT. NOT LEGAL "ILLEGAL" SOUNDS LIKE A CRIMINAL TO ME.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:28 PM on 03/15/2009

I have more respect for the K K K - at least you know were they stand on issues. Stop using the immigration issue to cover up your bigotry. Without Immigrants we would not have NASA, and a whole host of American accomplishments. Everyone in America is an immigrant - Your family im sure came form some other country. Please give me a break with this America for Americans crap.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:41 PM on 03/15/2009

Not everyone is an immigrant.

People who were born here aren't.

And the difference with those of us who are immigrants? Those of us who came here LEGALLY went through a lengthy, expensive and tedious process for the RIGHT to be here. Illegal immigrants did not. Send them back where they came.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:47 PM on 03/15/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 74 fans permalink

they came in legally though

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:57 PM on 03/15/2009
- Mexitli I'm a Fan of Mexitli 10 fans permalink
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You;re going to make their heads explode if you continue with this logic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:49 PM on 03/15/2009
- SonnyBono I'm a Fan of SonnyBono 21 fans permalink

Attn TokyoCalling - name the three most heavily populated countries in the World.

Answer - China, India and (drum roll, please) the United States of America with between 300 and 330 million people. The situation in this country between the mid 19th and early 20th Centuries when we had our greatest influx of immigrants and now, the early 21st Century are significantly different. No one has the right to move across an international border and simply take up residence because they want to - the only ones who advocate that are the illegal immigrants themselves or their apologists.

Please try going to Canada without the proper documentation and get a job. Try going to Mexico and buy a house on the beach or work - as Bush Senior used to say, "Aint gonna happen."

Please try to view the situation without your "my parents were immigrants" glasses and take into account the negative impact on American workers at the lower end of the economic spectrum - don't be so generous in giving up their jobs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 AM on 03/18/2009
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There is something that I noticed most of you missed,or at least I think so. The simple fact that according to the article, MOST OF THEM ARE IN CONTRACT FACILITIES. In other words, they are being held in places that are privately owned and of whom it is in the best interests of the private contractors to keep them there.

After all you can't steal money from the taxpayer if you are letting them out.

Seems to me that some members of the prison/industrial complex LOBBYING department have managed to put in some rules to help keep those prisons nice and full.

As well, having worked in a law office for a little while that handled immigration issues among others, it is not uncommon, we found out for mail to sort of not make it out of the private system. The "Lost" files in those places is staggering.

So there seems to be another system at work here and that is the lobbying system that allows for these sort of disgraceful things. MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:26 PM on 03/15/2009
- Solja I'm a Fan of Solja 117 fans permalink
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:37 PM on 03/15/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 74 fans permalink

the only disgraceful thing is that it takes so long to send them home

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:45 PM on 03/15/2009
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Remember back in 2006 when Haliburton got that no bid contract to construct "immigration detention facilities" all over the country? Well that's what they're talking about here - another Cheney-made money maker for the Haliburton shareholders. Just like the Iraq war.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:27 PM on 03/15/2009
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But if you're in this country illegally, you've broken the law. So now you have a criminal record.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:24 PM on 03/15/2009
- qdog112 I'm a Fan of qdog112 71 fans permalink
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Technically, if you are NOT the descendant of native Americans, you are here illegally. Unless, of course if your ancestors were kidnapped and brought here criminally.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:29 PM on 03/15/2009
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LOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:37 PM on 03/15/2009
- jweider I'm a Fan of jweider 30 fans permalink
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Do you mean like most African Americans were?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:25 PM on 03/15/2009

Did you even read the article? Immigration violations are considered a civil matter, which is why the people being locked up don't have the same rights afforded real criminals. So no, they don't have a criminal record.

Give them a fair trial, if they're here illegally, deport them. If they are legal, it should be easy enough to prove. Not only is holding them in privately run prisons is just a waste of taxpayer money, it's a morally questionable practice at best...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:34 PM on 03/15/2009
- Solja I'm a Fan of Solja 117 fans permalink
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You didn't read the article, you ignoramous. The girl in the picture was brought here at age 5 seeking political asylum because of her father's political views, and has lived in the US every since. Her entire family was picked up; her parents were deported. She was ready to attend college but she's been in jail for years waiting just for a hearing! That's not how our court system is supposed to work. We are better than that as a country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:40 PM on 03/15/2009
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Sounds like Guantañamo Bay.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:46 PM on 03/15/2009
- jweider I'm a Fan of jweider 30 fans permalink
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So you are saying that if you can hide out and break the law long enough that you should be allowed to stay?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:47 PM on 03/15/2009

they do not have a criminal record

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:48 PM on 03/15/2009

I just want to ask one question.
Why would any one want to stay in this country?
r we all really happy?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:21 PM on 03/15/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 74 fans permalink

i am very happy.......are you not

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:29 PM on 03/15/2009

because it goes downhill from here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:31 PM on 03/15/2009
- Solja I'm a Fan of Solja 117 fans permalink
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Pick a better country! I prefer my homeland, the good ol' USA, with all of its faults!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:41 PM on 03/15/2009
- qdog112 I'm a Fan of qdog112 71 fans permalink
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Ever been out of your backyard?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:10 PM on 03/15/2009

Given the way the economy is going it will be Americans that will soon leaving to find work elsewhere.
Hope you get a taste of the way you deal with immigrants.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:18 PM on 03/15/2009
- davenav I'm a Fan of davenav 30 fans permalink

This is utterly shameful. How can we call this 'land of the free' when it isn't.

This is just another example of the dangerous ethnophobia of the Lou Dobbs types who rant rave and wave their fists on tv in front of an American flag, while spouting the most un-American stuff you can imagine.

It's all been about attacking straw-men, because that is how you win political points with people who have little or no sense whatsoever.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:03 PM on 03/15/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 74 fans permalink

they are not americans.......send them home........

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:13 PM on 03/15/2009
- jack7576 I'm a Fan of jack7576 34 fans permalink
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its not simple as you say

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:15 PM on 03/15/2009
- qdog112 I'm a Fan of qdog112 71 fans permalink
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You're not American - you go home.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:21 PM on 03/15/2009

And you can head back home as well - your not Native American. Stop trying to act like the land is yours. Its basically stolen property. Head beck to Europe or wherever your parents came from.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:34 PM on 03/15/2009
- Indie2008 I'm a Fan of Indie2008 45 fans permalink

I enthusiastically support President Obama, and am certain not a xenophobe.but I must take issue with your post. Nothing is "free". Try going to another country-even a democratic one- and demanding your "rights". I agree that politicians and pundits use the issue to drive their agenda, but it doesn't change the fact that we have been severely damaged economically by trying to acommodate an influx of non-citizens.As for Lou Dobbs, I think his private life would contradict the accusation of ethnophobia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:27 PM on 03/15/2009
- jweider I'm a Fan of jweider 30 fans permalink
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What is so un-American about expecting the people within our borders to obey the law?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:49 PM on 03/15/2009
- GBO I'm a Fan of GBO 7 fans permalink
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I thought the only true legal occupants of this patch of land are the so-called 'american indians'...but why worry...they've almost be wiped off their land.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:02 PM on 03/15/2009
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Everyone seems to forget that little tidbit. It's disgusting what we did to the Indians, yet they keep them at bay with a pathetic little piece of land and an allowance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:11 PM on 03/15/2009
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They = the government

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:11 PM on 03/15/2009

Such a shame that this problem is still dealt with inefficiency and inhumanity at the same time .
Point one . illegal immigration and illegal hiring are very much related (supply and demand for cheap exploitable labor) crack down on the demand, illegal employment ...lowering the incentive to migrate illegally.
point two. there is a cost to us as a society to lose the moral and mental aspects of this inefficient policy tinged with fear (that this country suffers from legal immigration and that being decent and timely with those we find out to who's only crime is looking for a better life ) and even worse those who have committed major crimes.
People tend to be so scared of others not like them an use intimidation to compensate Like the contractor who I over heard belittling some of the competition's hiring practice ..and then latter cussing out my welding section for asking about some missing overtime saying he could replace us with mexicans for half the cost and less taxes .... seems like a common sense solution needs to be figured out cus we cant have it both ways

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:59 PM on 03/15/2009
- msjimmied I'm a Fan of msjimmied 53 fans permalink
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"Just because you haven't committed a crime doesn't mean that you shouldn't be held in detention until you can be deported," said Ira Mehlman, a spokesman for the Federation for American Immigration Reform. Even though not every illegal immigrant can be held, "if you bust a certain amount, it sends a message."

"Immigrant advocates say ICE prefers incarceration for non-criminal immigrants, even though alternatives are available, for one major reason: to strong-arm people."

Wow...Amazing...This is not American values, we do not do this. It is extremely easy for ICE to say that the immigrant has a choice, they can go back to their home country. The fact is, a lot of them have no other home. They have built their lives here, many have family with children. We were all immigrants once. This madness has to stop. Even for legal immigrants the constant fear of one wrong step and you can be torn apart from everything and everyone is very real.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:57 PM on 03/15/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 74 fans permalink

no i was born here

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:16 PM on 03/15/2009
- royevatom I'm a Fan of royevatom 11 fans permalink

Yes; we have been relying on our government to make laws and provide equitable solutions to problems such as immigration. It is obvious that a policy of avoiding reality is and has been the method of not governing. Every prosperous nation is having to deal with massive immigration from the less prosperous around the globe. You would think our politicians would recognize this and deal with it accordingly. Well; just put them all in jail and just keep putting them in jail and if necessary we will build more jails and spend more money to keep them in jail until of course their are more people in jail than not. Perhaps we could cordon off a portion for the Americans an keep out any one else except of course those who do work for the true Americans. There are no borders just a bunch of poorly articulated laws and that is our fault.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:07 PM on 03/15/2009
- MrT3 I'm a Fan of MrT3 21 fans permalink
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cutie pie

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:56 PM on 03/15/2009
- zitlight73 I'm a Fan of zitlight73 43 fans permalink

We can no longer the elephant in the living room. The dangers of illegal emmigration have to be dealt with. From kidnappings in Pheonix to jobs Americans now need something has to be done about the 20 million people who aren't supposed to be here. As I construction worker and landscaper I have seen illegal workers take over these sectors of the economy. I seen gang violence in a small tourist town in the Rockies with more to come. Something had better be done.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:54 PM on 03/15/2009
- SimplyBkuz I'm a Fan of SimplyBkuz 13 fans permalink
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Did you even read this article?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:04 PM on 03/15/2009

Guess what? If those people were here legally, they'd be taking the same exact jobs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:08 PM on 03/15/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 74 fans permalink

but they are not here legally

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:24 PM on 03/15/2009
- jweider I'm a Fan of jweider 30 fans permalink
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but then they would be paying taxes and not driving down the wages of citizens.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:38 PM on 03/15/2009
- SonnyBono I'm a Fan of SonnyBono 21 fans permalink

"Guess what? If those people were here legally, they'd be taking the same exact jobs." - maybe true but not at those wages and not without health insurance or workman's comp or Social Security and certainly not at those hours or working weekends and holidays on straight pay - heavens, they might even join a union and then what's the fun of that for the employers.

Employers hire illegals because they are CHEAP labor and they can be easily intimidated and are disposable and not because the employer wants to help the poor and the downtrodden - heck, he makes more profit by keeping a large pool of the downtrodden readily at hand. Maybe you should stick your head out of your shell and as Deepthroat told Bob Woodward "Follow the money".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:03 AM on 03/16/2009
- jack7576 I'm a Fan of jack7576 34 fans permalink
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"seen illegal workers"

how do you know they are illegal ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:09 PM on 03/15/2009
- SonnyBono I'm a Fan of SonnyBono 21 fans permalink

If they are hanging around the parking lot at Home Depot - chances are, they're illegal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:54 AM on 03/16/2009
- jweider I'm a Fan of jweider 30 fans permalink
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And then they suck billions of dollars a year out of our economy and sent it back home.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:36 PM on 03/15/2009
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