Surveys: Americans Grip To Individualism In Economic Storm

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First Posted: 03-17-09 07:17 AM   |   Updated: 04-17-09 05:12 AM

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In the face of a recession that has destroyed billions in family savings and home values, Americans remain convinced that personal initiative and hard work are the key to big rewards, and they continue to repudiate the idea of government intervention to alleviate economic inequality, according to two Pew-sponsored reports.

Not only do voters continue to be convinced, by large majorities, that they, and not government or big corporations, control their own destinies in the midst of the current recession, but they do so despite more long-term evidence suggesting that there is less class mobility in the United States than in most Northern European countries, or in Canada, and that U.S. wages have not kept up with productivity gains for the past three decades.

This conviction underpins the long-standing American hostility to a full-fledged welfare state -- along the lines of many European counties -- and underpins the lack of a strong socialist tradition in the US. It also shapes the debate over policies to deal with the current recession, including the Obama administration's rejection of bank nationalization.

A survey of 2119 respondents conducted by the Democratic firm Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research and the Republican firm Public Opinion Strategies for the Pew Economic Mobility Project asked: "Currently the country is in a recession. Do you believe it is still possible for people to improve their economic standing?"

Eighty percent answered "yes," including 56 percent answering "strongly" in the affirmative. Only 16 percent said "no."

African Americans, Hispanics and persons under 40 were even more affirmative than the public as a whole, with "yes" to "no" ratios respectively 83-15, 86-11, and 85-13.

A report on the findings of the survey, produced by the two polling firms, declared: "In the midst of an historic economic crisis, Americans insist that, despite the recession, it is still possible for people to improve their economic standing, and most believe that they control their economic destiny. Americans believe ambition, hard work and education primarily drive mobility, rather than outside forces like the current state of the economy."

The continuing strength of what amounts to an American 'ethos' -- a dimension of what some scholars call 'American Exceptionalism' -- was evident in the following conclusions:

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"Americans care more about opportunity than inequality and are far more concerned about the ability of lower-income Americans to move up the income ladder than about the persistence of upper-income Americans at the top. By a 71 to 21 percent margin, Americans believe it is more important to give people a fair chance to succeed than it is to reduce inequality in this country. Each demographic subgroup, including those at the lowest end of the economic spectrum, concurs with the majority on this issue."

What makes these findings particularly striking is the evidence that -- according to a second study, "Economic Mobility: Is the American Dream Alive and Well?," by Isabel Sawhill of the Brookings Institution and John E. Morton of the Pew Charitable Trusts -- the "American Dream" is not working as effectively as it has in the past.

According to the Brookings/Pew report, the pay-off for hard work has been diminishing. In the three decades after WWII, workers' wages rose almost exactly in proportion to productivity gains. For the past three decades, however, wage increases have fallen significantly behind productivity gains. The following Pew chart shows this spread beginning in the late 1970s and steadily growing over time.

Supporters of the theory that America is an 'exceptional' nation argue that the United States is different from other countries because a) it does not grapple with a legacy of rigid social stratification, as many other countries with formerly feudal or caste systems do; and b) that Americans' strong historic opposition to 'collectivist' forms of social intervention and a relatively greater preference for 'individualism' have led to higher levels of economic mobility than are found elsewhere.

The findings of the Pew/Brookings study, however, dispute this.

What this chart shows is that there is less mobility in the U.S. than in France, Germany, Sweden, Canada, Finland, Norway and Denmark (England has lower levels of social mobility than the U.S.); that sons are more likely to earn close to what their fathers made in the United States (after adjusting for inflation) than in most of the other developed countries cited in the study.

Despite these trends, the 'individualistic' convictions of Americans remain strong, and are powerful factors in policy decisions.

President Obama, in rejecting nationalization of banks as a way to deal with collapsing financial institutions cited the alien character of such actions to this country.

Acknowledging that Sweden had successfully nationalized banks during an earlier financial crisis, Obama noted that that not only are there vastly more banks in the U.S. than in Sweden, but "we also have different traditions in this country. Obviously, Sweden has a different set of cultures in terms of how the government relates to markets and America's different. And we want to retain a strong sense of private capital fulfilling the core -- core investment needs of this country. And so, what we've tried to do is to apply some of the tough love that's going to be necessary, but do it in a way that's also recognizing we've got big private capital markets and ultimately that's going to be the key to getting credit flowing again."

* * * * *

In practice, the public may be more ambivalent about activist government, and perhaps even about bank nationalization. Rasmussen Reports conducted a survey of 1,000 adults on February 3 and 4, 2009, putting the questions of nationalization in extreme terms, "Should the Government take over our banking system and have one centralized government bank?" Not very surprisingly, some 75 percent of respondents said no, only 9 percent said yes, with the remainder either declining to answer or suggesting another alternative.

A month later, Newsweek asked 1,203 adults a parallel, but much more moderate, version of the nationalization question: "Temporary nationalization is another way for the federal government to deal with large banks in danger of failing. This is where the government takes over a failing bank, cleans its balance sheets, and then quickly sells it off. In general, which do YOU think is the better way to deal with failing banks?" Again, not very surprisingly, the response was 56 percent for "nationalization where the government takes temporary control" and 29 percent for "government financial aid without any government control of the bank."

On a broader -- and perhaps most illuminating -- scale, Newsweek asked: "In general, government grows bigger as it provides more services. If you had to choose, would you rather have a smaller government providing less services, or a bigger government providing more services?"

Republicans preferred smaller government by a 67-24 margin; Democrats were the mirror opposite, choosing bigger government by better than two to one, 65-25; independents slightly favored smaller government, 45-42.

Reflecting the nation's deep ambivalence on this issue, when all the numbers are added together, the respondents split right down the middle, 44 to 44.

In the face of a recession that has destroyed billions in family savings and home values, Americans remain convinced that personal initiative and hard work are the key to big rewards, and they continu...
In the face of a recession that has destroyed billions in family savings and home values, Americans remain convinced that personal initiative and hard work are the key to big rewards, and they continu...
 
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- snesich I'm a Fan of snesich 27 fans permalink
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Confused and confusing data and questions here.

I believe strongly that I'm responsible for my own economic standing and my ability to improve it. I believe in the individual going out and working hard and making a difference.

Yet, I also believe strongly in the idea of a shared common good: that education, health care and a decent way of life should be assured, through government actions, for everyone who works full time.

The two are not mutually exclusive. But the framing of these questions assumes that they are. If you asked most people, "Do you think you can improve your situation or should you wait around for the government to make things better?" I'd be amazed if you got more than 5% to advocate the latter.

All of the Western European countries have capitalist economies that work as well or better than ours. Yet, they also assure that all citizens are guaranteed the basics of a good life in return for their work. You can still get rich in any of those countries, but you'll never be living in a Tent City, regardless of your lack of luck or effort.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 PM on 03/17/2009
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OUTSTANDING!!! Very well said! What you have detailed is the crux of the matter. I firmly believe that rugged individualism should be valued, and that we should each be responsible for ourselves. However, as we walk the path of the individulist, we should eventually find that this road merges with the road to wisdom. The road to wisdom is brightly illuminated by the bright light of perspective. With this light, you will come to see that ... people matter. Many of these people are very, very ignorant, and they need help. Many of them would gladly pull themselves up by their bootstraps, if they had them, if they knew what they looked like, and where to find them. You can't pull yourself up if you have no conception of how to do it. This, is what we would ask government to provide, the basis, the basic foundation, support RIF, Headstart, programs to re-educate parents, invest in our people and our infrastructure (like hmm ... China). Let's all learn together. Be individuals, and then learn the importance of valuing and nurturing each other, our groups, teams, Communities, and nation. So we don't see middle-class people living in tent cities.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:07 PM on 03/17/2009
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My final observation . Isn't it interesting there is an ad for "ceramic armor" next to the article about Individualism"... as Seinfeld would say: "What's up with that?"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 PM on 03/17/2009

This article highlights several interesting things. First, it shows how radically different your poll results will be, depending on how you frame the question. This is one of the reasons that polls are so suspect and they all should be taken with a boulder of salt.

Second, it shows how adept the conservative plutocracy has been at using some of Americans' most dearly held ideals (equality, opportunity, upward mobility, belief in the American dream) and twisting them to a point that Americans believe all government is bad, they're responsible for their jobs getting shipped overseas, and when the economy tanks due to no fault of their own it's still their fault when they lose their job or their house.

Third, the almost 50-50 split mentioned at the end of the article shows that we are at a most interesting time in this country's history. We have deep and enduring divisions that evoke tremendous emotional responses from people. We also, of course, have a worrisomely large portion of the population that's completely disengaged from the political process for whatever reason - lack of education, lack of time, feeling disenfranchised or disenchanted or skeptical, etc. But at any rate, the 50-50 split shows that, among those who are paying attention to national issues, we've just about finished choosing sides. There's still a narrow slice of the populace on the fence (the moderates or Independents or swing voters, call them what you will).

Wonder what happens next?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 PM on 03/17/2009
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"Temporary nationalization is another way for the federal government to deal with large banks in danger of failing. This is where the government takes over a failing bank, cleans its balance sheets, and then quickly sells it off. In general, which do YOU think is the better way to deal with failing banks?"

I bet If I took this question to the local coffee shop, most people would answer: "Huh?"; or "Are you trying to start trouble?"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:58 PM on 03/17/2009
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The polls are not surprising to me. People are obligated to beleiev what makes them "comfortable" and allows them to cope. The incredulous look on the faes of people when their understanding of their world is truly revealed. Minorties (even me) have believed that if the use the power of education, work like the devil, play their cards straight, be kind to others, etc. (well, taht is what we are told) That prosperity will find them and they have nothing to fear. Nothing can be further from the truth. Education and hard work is no barrier to injustice or tragedy. Plants close, the man (or woman ) in power takes a dislike to you, family illness, a car accident, RUF's, tax mistakes, variable ineterst, overlimit feees, a slip and fall, and myriad of other events that place you at the meryc of another that usually doesn't care whether you livce or die. While it is true, you have some self determination, always remember, it is only because "they" (whoever in your life pulls your strings the most) allows you to. However, since we cannot believe in others, we must believe in ourselves, for as far as that can go.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 PM on 03/17/2009

I agree with 75% of Americans who think the Government should NOT take over our banking system. Check out the video rant at: http://bearonbusiness.com/history-of-telecom -- We compare lessons learned in the Telecom industry's meltdown in the early 2000's to today's economic crisis. Ultimately, the political direction we are taking is undermining our capability to self-correct the situation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 PM on 03/17/2009
- vjoseph I'm a Fan of vjoseph 65 fans permalink
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Yet in Canada, where the government has shares in the same industry, these industries are thriving and don't suffer the same calamity as it does here. Explain that to me

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 03/17/2009
- vjoseph I'm a Fan of vjoseph 65 fans permalink
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The Austrian School is the most ridiculous ideology there is

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:54 PM on 03/17/2009
- desertman I'm a Fan of desertman 16 fans permalink

"Emergencies" have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded. -- F.A. von Hayek

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 PM on 03/17/2009
- arachne646 I'm a Fan of arachne646 5 fans permalink

My Dad came to Canada to escape the British way of life where success depended on wearing the "right" school tie; and having an accent from the "right" county--to Canada, where he could work with people from around the world to build a good life for his family. In Canada we have higher taxes, but no one goes without medical care. There are some things like police and fire that are better handled by government, but we have to get together ourselves and figure out where our interest lies, not what's best for big business--which increasingly is uninterested in us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:54 AM on 03/17/2009

Obviously, Americans are fully subscribed to their cultural delusions. It's going to take a whole heap of pain and disillusionment before a new understanding takes hold. The propaganda and generational issues have been too potent and profound for people to pivot very quickly.

But a new day is coming.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:19 AM on 03/17/2009
- glockman I'm a Fan of glockman 47 fans permalink
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"Obviously, Americans are fully subscribed to their cultural delusions"

Being able to make your own decisions about your employment and economic freedom are delusional?

So, who instructed you, then, on how to word your statement?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 AM on 03/17/2009
- RandVictims I'm a Fan of RandVictims 131 fans permalink
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What do you do for a living? Be honest.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 AM on 03/17/2009
- carbolaw I'm a Fan of carbolaw 34 fans permalink

I think what is delusional is the belief that we have such freedom and that there is any type of true equality of opportunity in the United States. For those living in poverty, the evidence is clear that if there mother does not have access to prenatal care they are already at a disadvantage and thus do not have an equal opportunity by the time they are born. Then add in that this individual is much more likely to live in a single parent home, or a home where both parents work more than one job, they are not likely to have access to learning based toys or even learning based television and by the time they are two their opportunities are far from equal from those from the middle to upper classes. Then add in the fact that their schools will get a small portion of the funding that is received by the schools of the wealthier students and the opportunities become even more unequal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 03/17/2009

Glockman,
Where does your scrip come from?
I think that we all understand that there isn't equal opportunity and that misfortune can strike even the most talented.
I think we all know that the aim of large corporations is to make money for themselves and that the fate of the workers is of no concern.
I think we understand that an individual against the corporation does not have a chance of success.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 03/17/2009
- vjoseph I'm a Fan of vjoseph 65 fans permalink
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So are you claiming that in countries such as Canada, Norway, Finland, Sweden and Netherlands, people don't make their own decision about their employment and economic freedom? Are you ready to go on record with this?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 03/17/2009
- 11907281 I'm a Fan of 11907281 15 fans permalink
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"don't ask, don't tell" Directly effects Americans employment freedom, this law does not exist in many of the other countries listed. Just keep waving that flag and doing that 3 letter chant.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:19 PM on 03/17/2009
- RandVictims I'm a Fan of RandVictims 131 fans permalink
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I invite all those who drink the long debunked Libertarian fantasy to leave the country, head for Dubai, Kuwait or any other country where they practice the form of Free Market Capitalism you desire.

Really.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:17 AM on 03/17/2009
- glockman I'm a Fan of glockman 47 fans permalink
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I invite all those who worship at the alter of governmental authority to leave the country, head for China, Venezuela, or any other country where they practice the form of governmental control you desire.

really.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:35 AM on 03/17/2009
- RandVictims I'm a Fan of RandVictims 131 fans permalink
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Excuse me, herr Gunguy, but WE won.

.....I heard you can get a cheap connector flight to Saudi Arabia if you act quickly.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:47 AM on 03/17/2009
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I lived in the bush in Guatemala for 3.5 years; you could go there and be all the liberatrian you think you can enforce. Do your own thing; until somebody comes alone and wants to do their own thing and the xpense of your thing. The government won't bother you. Was that clear? Have fun, bring ammunition and bribe money.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 PM on 03/17/2009
- MajorKong I'm a Fan of MajorKong 423 fans permalink
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What do you mean? China is a right-winger's fantasy come true:

They have capitol punishment.
Tough prisons.
Few limits on police powers.
A compliant press.
Very weak unions.
Lots of defense spending.
An increasingly aggressive foreign policy.
Lots of sweet, sweet coal burning power plants.
Government spying.
Torture.
And an unlimited supply of cheap, cheap labor.

What's not to love for a conservative?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 PM on 03/17/2009

Couldn't agree more Rand.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 03/17/2009
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"grip to"? how does one "grip to"? "cling to" maybe.......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 AM on 03/17/2009

The American people have beliefs despite evidence to the contrary? Shocking.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:42 AM on 03/17/2009

:-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:43 PM on 03/17/2009
- iluvsam I'm a Fan of iluvsam 17 fans permalink

This is stupid as having opportunity and equality are mutally exclusive. For instance, women didn't have opportunity until government provided equality in the workplace and in schools. Ask these same Americans whether it's government's responsibility to provide them with a good education so that they have the TOOLS to succeed or whether all American parents should have to pay for a private school for their kids? Ask them if they think government has a role in giving them the TOOLS to raise their station in life...such as an education, access to health care, public transportation to get to work, equal pay laws, the right to sue for discriminatory practices, etc. Ask them specific questions instead of asking about broad concepts and the results would be different. What people want is the freedom to become whatever they want and to benefit from their hard work, but they want government to provide them EQUAL ACCESS to the tools necessary to do so. They want government to provide a level playing field. Most people I know dislike Paris Hilton, yet like Madonna despite their obvious similarities. Paris got her money the easy way...Madonna got hers the hard way. We don't like the easy money getters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 AM on 03/17/2009
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Well, I like Par and don't like Madonna (except in "Evita") and Par's got a great environmental policy to boot!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 AM on 03/17/2009
- TexMex69 I'm a Fan of TexMex69 4 fans permalink
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Exactly... Since when did a Nation empowering it's people to Succeed become WELFARE.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:12 AM on 03/17/2009
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Unfortunately, the government has been negligent in their attempts at giving us a level playing field. Half the programs they set up only end up reinforcing the same patterns and rules of engagement that they were intended to break.

Take for example, the Americans with Disabilities act. While there was a lot of great promise in the ADA, the rules were not strict enough, and have allowed retrofitted buildings to accomodate their wheelchair accesses in the back of the facilities in service entrances, and given passes by considering produce and service elevators as adequate mobility accomodations, which end up giving the disabled a very distinct "separate but equal" "Back of the bus" feeling, when we are forced to use service entrances and elevators in 5 star neck tie dress code restaurants

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:19 AM on 03/17/2009
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I can top that; in 2004 ; HUD had a big "party" to celebrate "Brown V"; they chose a hotel in DC that DID NOT have public elevators to the conference center. Those in wheelchairs had to br brought up through a along arduous route throught the kitchen. Then some glitch or other ,prevented them from actually being able to be on the conference floor because organizaers feared they could not evacuate the wheelchair people if there was a fire, etc.. It was just a mess.

In addition, employment has proven to be a joke; all an employer has to do is state they cannot accomodate; then the legal burden shifts to the APPLICANT to prove the company could/can. Now how would a regualr person go about achieving that (proof).?

You can blame bush/bush for gutting thes eprograms ; like EEOC and Clinton for beleieving what he was told, and not moving fast enough to fix in between.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:28 PM on 03/17/2009
- camper65 I'm a Fan of camper65 7 fans permalink

And try to remember that the Americans with Disabilities Act was SUPPORTED by large businesses because they knew that enforcement would cost more, proportionately, to their smaller competitors than it would cost them. Some of those competitors just might be forced to close their doors due to the expense, or raise their prices to pay for it, thus making them LESS competitive. Not that the idea was bad, mind you - It was necessary and right! But ALWAYS check motives!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 PM on 03/17/2009
- glockman I'm a Fan of glockman 47 fans permalink
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I do not believe it's the governments responsibility to provide me an education, or access to health care, or public transportation, or equal pay, etc. It is my responsibility.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 AM on 03/17/2009
- RandVictims I'm a Fan of RandVictims 131 fans permalink
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You and your Trust Fund.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 AM on 03/17/2009
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Then, go an do as you please.

We, however, think otherwise.

And since we won and now have the means to make these things happen, either get with the program or get out of the way.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:33 PM on 03/17/2009

Glockman,
You did all that by yourself!!!!!!!!!!
Incredible and unbelievable!!!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:22 PM on 03/17/2009
- markinaz I'm a Fan of markinaz 8 fans permalink

Then please don't use the roads or sidewalks or drink clean water from the tap as you think these are things that are your responsibility.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:33 PM on 03/17/2009
- zola77 I'm a Fan of zola77 29 fans permalink
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Glockman, what is your idea of the role of government and nation? if a govt doesnt provide services for the common good and to level the playing field among its citizenry (which is 1 big reason why the formation of nation states was originally created)?

Common wealth, common protection, national unity and a national team...if there is no sense of there being a common wealth or a national "team", why should i be FORCED to be part of a country? What is the purpose of a nation in your mind - because it differs from the original reasons for their creation.

What is your alternative political system?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:30 PM on 03/17/2009
- ohiomark I'm a Fan of ohiomark 128 fans permalink

Duh!!

The American people figured out along time ago that more government is the problem, NOT the answer.

Too bad some of them believed Obama when he said that he would cut some government and lower taxes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 AM on 03/17/2009
- RandVictims I'm a Fan of RandVictims 131 fans permalink
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I don't remember him saying he would cut government.

Nonetheless, - do you want the govt. to be cut or just the oversight on business? Libertarian theory inherently lacks any depth. Cutting govt. now means no cops, no firefighters, no defense if China, Russia want to invade and a few dozen high-tech, disenfranchised, greedy defense contractors who have a lot of neat weapons at their disposal. How long do you think you Libertarians and your outdated assault rifles last in THAT world? My guess? - a week.

Is THIS what you want or are you the typical hypocritical so-called "Libertarian" who wants the Police State and all the creature comforts afforded by modern govt. but you don't want to pay for it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 AM on 03/17/2009
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Are you back? What your election promise?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 PM on 03/17/2009
- WoodyCPM I'm a Fan of WoodyCPM 81 fans permalink

If I don't have to scramble to secure medical treatments. If I don't have to scurry around, scrimp and rob the food pot to pay the rent pot. If I don't have to sell the first born into slavery to afford to send him to college, or myself. If I don't have to work three jobs just to put a roof over my head....... then I am free to exercise the kind of entreprenuerial spirit that most Americans believe God blessed them with, exclusively. That's why the economic systems in Northern Europe and Canada are superior to the United States. Struggling to survive precludes any experimentation in the marketplace for most people. You can not risk it because to fail means living in the street.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 03/17/2009
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And that's why libertarianism is such a total crock. Very well put.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:41 AM on 03/17/2009
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Great theory if it is 1800 and you are the biggest, strongest, richest, and healthiest.

Hmmm, maybe even in 2009

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:18 PM on 03/17/2009
- glockman I'm a Fan of glockman 47 fans permalink
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I don't have to scurry around for any of those things, and I make only $52,000.00 a year. You like hyperbole, don't you?

And if Europe is so superior, in all seriousness, why don't you move there?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 AM on 03/17/2009
- RandVictims I'm a Fan of RandVictims 131 fans permalink
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Because WE won. That's why we are no longer allowing Corporate America to convert our country into a replica of Kuwait.

....And if the New America resembles Europe where people read books, enjoy art and engage in critical thought - icing on the cake.

Your idols are fleeing to Dubai, you're welcome to join them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 AM on 03/17/2009
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Because we love our country enough to fix what's wrong with it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:34 PM on 03/17/2009
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So, after taxes, you make do on about 39K a year? and have no financial crunch? pay for your own healthcare, no school loans (paid cash for your education, if you have one), and you have never taken advantage of mass transit? (surely you have no children)
Please share your budget with us. Millions want to know!!
I wonder if you would totally like a "free country" ; no rpice supports for : milk ($12.00 gallon); Beef ($15.00), wheat (bread $7.00 loaf) ...how would that work out on your budget ? your individual tax break would be around 2% to eliminate those supports.

As Janice said: "Freedom is having nothing left to lose"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:44 PM on 03/17/2009
- zola77 I'm a Fan of zola77 29 fans permalink
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why shoulod he move there when he wants to transform his own country?

However you are the naysayer here so why dont you set up your own state based on your own political principles?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:32 PM on 03/17/2009
- Soulsurfer I'm a Fan of Soulsurfer 38 fans permalink

Horatio Alger is an attractive and romantic myth. However, its true that college is getting out of reach of the majority, and good jobs are hard to come by. Blue collar wages have been slipping for decades, and white collar jobs are now feeling the same pinch, as workers are pitted against educated third worlders willing to take a fraction of American workers' pay. Those facts alone show that its harder to elevate yourself economically in this country. Mythology takes a long time to die, though.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 AM on 03/17/2009
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Even WITH a graduate-level college education, it's not all that easy. I've been laid off twice in the past 10 years. Once was just before 9./11, and if you think the job market is bad now -- I ended up doing a stint as a cashier at Walgreen's and even that took a month of pounding the pavement to get and I was happy to get it at the time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 AM on 03/17/2009
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I am hip.

Been told I am "too "something"; too white , too black, too smart too experienced, too inexperienced, too old , too young,

Self determination has nothing to do with it; the power lies elsewhere.

Many of us did everything we were supposed to do, and to no avail.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 03/17/2009

There is nothing surprising about this at all. You have to realize there has been, for over 30 years, a propaganda campaign saying this very thing by the well funded right wing of this country. Essentially, the message is ....you are your own master and don't be jealous of the rich in this country because one day if you work hard enough you could be rich also! That old "trickle down", "voodoo" economics theory is complete bull as any sane person knows, but if you point it out you are labeled as being into "class warfare. Ironically the graph showing productivity and income growth coincides with this starting with the Reagan administration. How strange! Hard to believe! I saw a similar graph a few weeks ago online about personal savings rate since about 1950 and it showed the same thing, ever since Reagan took office the personal savings rate went steadily down just like the income on the productivity map. Coincidence? You be the judge.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 AM on 03/17/2009
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Trickle-down economics -- p i s s on it!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 AM on 03/17/2009

But isnt the "trikcle down" theory the way the stimulus package is supposed to work? Money for government funded projects creates jobs and then that caused trickle down spending. All you out there that say tricle down doesnt work are being disingenuous.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:52 AM on 03/17/2009
- glockman I'm a Fan of glockman 47 fans permalink
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If I am not my own master, please tell me who is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 AM on 03/17/2009
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Just about everybody.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 PM on 03/17/2009

Glockman
Small world isn't it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 PM on 03/17/2009

Glockman,
We've been waiting to see your budget and to see how you afford heatlhcare on 39,000 gross per year. Hope you don't actually need to use any health insurance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 PM on 03/17/2009
- camper65 I'm a Fan of camper65 7 fans permalink

And MARXISM is going to make it better??!! Show me just one example of Marxism being successful!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 03/18/2009
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