Video Showing Beating Of Girl Shakes Pakistan Peace Accord (VIDEO)

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AP   |  ASIF SHAHZAD   |   April 4, 2009 at 08:35 PM

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ISLAMABAD — Pakistani authorities ordered inquiries Friday into a video showing the public flogging of a screaming woman in a northwestern valley where officials have yielded to Taliban demands for Islamic law.

A militant spokesman defended the punishment, fueling a furor that cast more doubt on a creaking peace deal in the Swat valley that U.S. officials fear has created another haven for allies of al-Qaida.

WATCH (WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGES)



Officials vowed to impose Islamic law, or Shariah, in Swat in February to halt 18 months of terror and bloody fighting between militants and security forces that killed hundreds of people.

Shariah has not yet formally been introduced and provincial officials say that, in any case, they would not condone such whippings or the harsh brand of Islamic law practiced under Afghanistan's former Taliban rule. But the video provided a reminder of how hard-liners in control of much of valley interpret Islamic strictures.

Though it was unclear when and where the video was shot, it was believed to have been taken with a mobile phone in the Swat valley. It was broadcast widely Friday on Dunya TV and other Pakistani television stations.

The embattled government of Pakistan's North West Frontier Province struck the deal with a hardline cleric who helped secure a cease-fire. However, President Asif Ali Zardari's office says he won't sign the bill introducing Islamic law there unless he is satisfied that peace has been restored _ a prospect that seemed to recede Friday after a sharp outcry by rights groups.

"It is not a peace accord in Swat, instead it is a surrender by the government of Pakistan," said Asma Jehangir, head of Pakistan's main human rights organization. The flogging "is against all the women of Pakistan."

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani said the government remained committed to reconciliation in Swat but warned that it would restart the military operation if its authority was challenged.

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The two-minute video, widely aired on local television Friday, shows the woman face down on the ground with two men holding her arms and feet. Her all-enveloping burqa has been hitched up to expose a pair of pink trousers.

A third man in a black turban with a long beard whips her backside more than a dozen times, causing her to scream repeatedly and shout "Stop it, stop it! It is painful!" A crowd of men watches silently in the background.

It was unclear who ordered the lashing and when it occurred.

Muslim Khan, spokesman for the Swat Taliban, said the militants publicly flogged a woman nine months ago over allegations that she had an illicit relationship with her father-in-law, but he was not sure if the video showed that incident.

He defended the punishment, although he said it should not have been done in public and should have been carried out by a boy who had not yet reached puberty.

Provincial government spokesman Mian Iftikhar Hussein said the incident occurred Jan. 3 _ before the peace agreement was signed. Some regional officials and the Taliban spokesman suggested the release of the video was an attempt to sabotage the agreement.

"The Shariah regulation in no way is going to allow this thing to happen at all," provincial Law Minister Arshad Abdullah said. "Let's not judge our deal by this video."

A spokesman for Zardari, the widower of slain former leader and women's rights torch bearer Benazir Bhutto, described the flogging as "barbarism" that should not be tolerated.

spokesman Farhatullah Babar said Zardari had ordered authorities to apprehend those responsible _ a near-impossible task in a zone from which the police and moderate tribal leaders have fled in fear.

Pakistan's recently restored chief justice also opened an inquiry, saying the case represented "a serious violation" of the law and fundamental rights.

Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhry, who had been removed by former military ruler Pervez Musharraf in part for pursuing human rights cases, ordered security officials to produce the victim in the Supreme Court in time for a hearing on April 6.

U.S. officials have criticized Pakistan for striking a series of usually short-lived peace deals with militants, arguing that they give extremists time to regroup and focus on launching cross-border attacks against U.S. and NATO troops in Afghanistan.

They have expressed concern about the accord in Swat, but are also pressing Pakistan's army to switch its focus to al-Qaida strongholds closer to the Afghan border.

___

Associated Press writers Munir Ahmad in Islamabad and Riaz Khan in Peshawar contributed to this report.

ISLAMABAD — Pakistani authorities ordered inquiries Friday into a video showing the public flogging of a screaming woman in a northwestern valley where officials have yielded to Taliban demands ...
ISLAMABAD — Pakistani authorities ordered inquiries Friday into a video showing the public flogging of a screaming woman in a northwestern valley where officials have yielded to Taliban demands ...
 
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- nostalgia I'm a Fan of nostalgia 10 fans permalink

Oh God! do I hate the world of men!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:01 AM on 04/04/2009
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Violence is the way of the fundamentalist religious cults of the world, because if the truth of love and human spirit were ever realized by these mislead followers, it would expose a core weakness for understanding, moral flexibility, and peace.

Religion has become the beast, the dark half, it has strove to suppress. Religion is a blackened rot that eats at the intelligence of humanity. Religion needs to die now!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:45 AM on 04/04/2009
- Chubbster I'm a Fan of Chubbster 34 fans permalink

These people are insane. However, as far as beatings go it was nothing compared to the viciousness of blue-eyed Americans at Abu Gharaib and Guantanamo.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 PM on 04/04/2009
- dshwa I'm a Fan of dshwa 2 fans permalink

Religion is a tool. It depends on how you use it. If I use a hammer to bash in a man's head, is the hammer to blame? If that hammer then is used to build a house, is it suddenly good? It is not the hammer that needs to be changed, but the use to which it is put.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:33 PM on 04/04/2009
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Claymore mines, RPG's and Cluster bombs are just tools too, designed to mangle and kill. You could even say they are used to protect, as defensive tools. But I don't want one going off in my face. Do you advocate their use? I don't. But too many "Followers" do.
As well, I respect and understand the moral teachings of many religions and feel they are worthy of study and adherence, but there is no rational basis for violence as a form of persuasion, or using dogmatic laws to enforce the will of the few based on stories, myths and fables. Sexual repression is another matter worthy of mention. Two words: "Pedophilia and Rape". These lovely human aspects are not just confined to the catholics. Not to mention the overt war on the feminine aspect. Castigation of women and the continual misogynistic atrocities like the kind being forced on that poor woman in the video above.
Religion, putting it gently, is a tool as useful as the abacus. You know the tool used by the Medici's to add up all the gold which led to the inventions of banking system.
( Another great institute of humanities suffering.)
One more thing; many religious fundamentalists all have in common some type of end times, judgment day, or apocalypse scenario. But it is not the end of the world they see, but the end of the childish world of fantasy and make believe they live in.
Thank you for your input.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:31 PM on 04/04/2009
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Amen!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 PM on 04/04/2009
- Hillrick I'm a Fan of Hillrick 104 fans permalink
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"should not have been done in public and should have been carried out by a boy who had not yet reached puberty."

Oh. Well at least there are guidelines for this. Just a clerical error or someone misspoke or something. How comforting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:25 AM on 04/04/2009

I have always believed that people that support such archaic punishment do so as a collective choice. Give these people the independent opportunity to chose between this sort of punishment and one regulated by logic and human rights, I am sure the majority would chose the latter.

Imagine, as has been done in the UK, that you allow people to 'opt in' to Islamic law while the remainder of the society chose to follow the 'secular' path. I believe that due to peer pressure almost all Muslims would opt in. However, once charged with any such crime they would demand judgment under a more rational system.

I am absolutely for religious freedom, but this sort of mess shouldn't be acceptablel. A friend who happens to be a Muslim, assures me under true Islam incidents like this should not occur. The problem is, they do! Islam is used in the poor and unstructured parts of the world to suppress women. The sad thing is this portrays a negative image of Islam for the rest of the world. As really is this sort of Roman style punishment even relevant in modern society?

Given the choice I am sure this woman would have chosen to be tried, first in an actual court, second, to be punished under a secular law (if community pressure were not applied). These people need to grow up if they want to be treated with respect on the world stage. They shame Islam with Barbarism.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 AM on 04/04/2009
- clamperken I'm a Fan of clamperken 4 fans permalink

As usual, these religous zealots use thier god as an excuse to terrorize the population. Man has used this time-tested method of control for thousands of years. The idea that we can somehow change this is futile. As far as I know men wrote all of the various books, the bible, koran ect. It is obvious to anyone with a brain that they were written as a fear tactic to keep the sheep in line. With threats of eternal damnation, burning in he// or being denied entrance to the kingdom of heaven, men have kept thier power over women, children and anyone who dares to question thier beliefs. Now the bad news folks. As long as the makebelieve word of god excuses the criminal behavior of religous fanatics, it will never change. If I'm wrong and god does exist, he must be discusted with mankind.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:02 AM on 04/04/2009
- dshwa I'm a Fan of dshwa 2 fans permalink

I'm pretty sure, that if there was a god, he would not have the slightest interest in humans and what we were doing. We would be so small in comparison that we would be beneath the notice of such a being.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:36 PM on 04/04/2009
- unkn1 I'm a Fan of unkn1 4 fans permalink

That's He does have interest in everything and everybody is what makes God so cool !

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 PM on 04/05/2009
- All in All I'm a Fan of All in All 62 fans permalink

I like the Huffington Post, however sometimes I just wonder, why-oh-why do We People do the things that We do.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7980899.stm

Relatives of the man involved in the incident told the BBC he had gone to the house of the girl in the village of Kala Kalay to do repairs as an electrician, but militants accused him of having a relationship with her.

They dragged him from the house and flogged him before punishing the girl, his relatives said.

The Taleban made the girl's brother hold her down during the flogging, they said.

After the incident, the Taleban forced the couple to marry and instructed the man not to divorce his wife. His relatives say he has been left mentally scarred.

The incident happened weeks before the new Sharia courts began to be introduced in Swat.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:58 AM on 04/04/2009
- marko77 I'm a Fan of marko77 32 fans permalink

The Taleban made the girl's brother hold her down during the flogging, they said.
After the incident, the Taleban forced the couple to marry and instructed the man not to divorce his wife. His relatives say he has been left mentally scarred.
The incident happened weeks before the new Sharia courts began to be introduced in Swat.
by All in All
__________­__________­__________­__________­__________­__________­__

OK, now that the "new" Sharia courts are probably up and running, the girls will be taken to soccer stadiums to be flogged before an audience who can sit in comfort for the show.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:36 PM on 04/04/2009
- Libilou I'm a Fan of Libilou 3 fans permalink
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Anyone that can say that Islam is a religion of peace needs to see this video. Any religion that teaches this kind of barbarism needs to be stopped.

And yes, we are our brother's keepers. Human rights are human rights. Humans should not be treated this way. Absolutely disgusting. Those males (they don't deserve the term men, as they most certainly are not human) deserve to be sent out into the wilderness, stripped and left.

Or rather, let's do that, but give the women the flogs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 AM on 04/04/2009
- trunk65 I'm a Fan of trunk65 32 fans permalink
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If you view history with an accurate eye, you will find many examples of similar or worse cruelty carried out in the name of Christ. This is not about religion, but rather about control. Bush's misguided idea of the Arab world being ready and willing for democracy is surely reputed by this video. We are not going to be able to club the rest of the world into behaving like proper members of a modern world. Education, education, and only education will solve these atrocities. Now that we have a leader that fully understands the complexity of a modern world, we can turn or resources towards educating and helping the backward countries that allow such behavior. Islamic men that practice this type of action need to be exposed to a better way, but I know it is easier just to hate them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 PM on 04/04/2009
- Libilou I'm a Fan of Libilou 3 fans permalink
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Wrapping up what was done with the flag of "well, it was done by "this group" in the past" is disgusting.

Christians no longer burn anyone at the stake. Muslims do stone, flog and generally mistreat women to their hearts delight.

Islam is not a religion of peace. When I see this kind of thing condemned by an Islamic government, then I'll say things have changed, until then, all Islam is is a religion of men who are bullies who enjoy raping and beating their women. There is no peace, there is no joy, there is no salvation. Just hurt. They were hurt as children and all they can do is hurt as adults.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:56 AM on 04/05/2009
- dshwa I'm a Fan of dshwa 2 fans permalink

It's not Islam. The perpetrators of this wrap up their deeds in the robe of Islam in order to put themselves above criticism and reproach. It's the same tactic that George Bush used with Iraq, only he used "patriotism" instead. We're not as advanced as we like to pretend we are.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:40 PM on 04/04/2009
- marko77 I'm a Fan of marko77 32 fans permalink

Yes, agreed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:11 PM on 04/04/2009
- greymom I'm a Fan of greymom 37 fans permalink

I see the comparison.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 PM on 04/04/2009
- unkn1 I'm a Fan of unkn1 4 fans permalink

That is like saying Christianity doesn't value human life because some people who practice abortion "claim" to be Christians. Such ignorant comdemnation of Islam has no place in legitimate conversation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 PM on 04/04/2009
- reno1190 I'm a Fan of reno1190 16 fans permalink
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AND A MANY CHRISTIANS PRACTICE SLAVERY,RAPE MASS MURDER

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:13 AM on 04/05/2009
- unkn1 I'm a Fan of unkn1 4 fans permalink

I found this more strange than disturbing. I'm sure it hurt (a lot) and surely was old fashioned - as it 800 years behind the times. But, I have to confess it was not as bad at the headline made me expect. We in the West have to understand the cultural differences. Make no mistake - I DON'T LIKE THIS - but understand it in the proper context. I'd take this beating over a bare assed caning in Singapore any day !

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 AM on 04/04/2009
- NYNY I'm a Fan of NYNY permalink

Cultural differences? More like barbaric and disgusting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:10 AM on 04/04/2009
- unkn1 I'm a Fan of unkn1 4 fans permalink

Yes, cultural differences. As in these people live in mud huts. They are likely illiterate. They have no court system as we know. In these areas of the world there are no prison systems - justice is swift and often corporal. Our western concepts of justice are as alien to them as a public beating are to us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:46 AM on 04/04/2009
- CR46 I'm a Fan of CR46 222 fans permalink

Exactly!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:01 AM on 04/04/2009
- All in All I'm a Fan of All in All 62 fans permalink

Oh-yeah, agreed.

I remember when I was Young My brother got a beating using the belt buckle!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:14 AM on 04/04/2009
- marko77 I'm a Fan of marko77 32 fans permalink

All in All
Oh-yeah, agreed.
I remember when I was Young My brother got a beating using the belt buckle!
__________­__________­__________­__________­__________­_______

Yeah, there was a time in America when kids got the strap, but by their father or mother - and now we don't see it. That said, this girl is being held down by three guys off the street, who could have starred in the Pakistani version of the movie Deliverance, and they whaled away. A bad day to have to admit you're a Pakistani and that's for sure!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 PM on 04/04/2009
- agett12 I'm a Fan of agett12 6 fans permalink

Are you kidding me? And we wonder why women's rights hasn't advanced much in developing nations. If it was a family thing it should have been dealt with within the family. It also shows a point about how radical the Taliban can be in its enforcement of Sharia. cultural context my arse.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:16 AM on 04/04/2009

"it was not as bad at the headline made me expect. "

You weren't the one being whipped; it's possible the woman would disagree...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:54 AM on 04/04/2009
- glockman I'm a Fan of glockman 40 fans permalink
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So, you must support female genital mutilation, child soldiering, etc.?

I mean, all that cultural differences nonsense, right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:10 AM on 04/04/2009
- unkn1 I'm a Fan of unkn1 4 fans permalink

Re: child soldiering, don't think that, although pure evil, is a part of any culture. Many in the world look at the US and our culture as evil, what with our acceptance of the murder of the unborn and capital punishment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 PM on 04/04/2009
- zukervati I'm a Fan of zukervati 25 fans permalink
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We're all witnessing the results of our policies for the last few decades - reaping what we sowed (more like that little girl reaping what we sowed). It's the Policy Stupid! We've propped up, financiall­y/militari­ly supported, toppled legitimate and quashed moderate Governments all over the world - A Wilsonian wet-dream for a neo-imperial America.
Instead of backing the regime of Daoud, who was a "moderate" but corrupt puppet of the Soviets, we created the Taliban to counter the Soviet expansion.
Taliban, like a venomous snake, can never be befriended - their existence is based on warped logic, based on radical interpretation of Islam (one could argue that Islam itself is radical. However, I'll let others be the judge of that).
All I'm suggesting is that we shouldn't promote international Policies that create these venomous snakes like Taliban, IDF (Israeli Defense Forces), Pinochet, Samoza, Savimbi to name a few!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:10 AM on 04/04/2009
- glockman I'm a Fan of glockman 40 fans permalink
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US policy didn't write the Koran. Quit trying to blame this barbarism on the US.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:11 AM on 04/04/2009
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If Christian Dominionists (who are very active in the GOP) had their way we would be beating gays the same way here in the US. Religious fanatics are pretty much the same all over the world. It only becaome a problem in areas where Church and State are not kept strictly separated.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 PM on 04/04/2009
- Blutus I'm a Fan of Blutus 11 fans permalink

You are nuts. Try to focus.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 PM on 04/04/2009
- rocko2466 I'm a Fan of rocko2466 3 fans permalink
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Makes me think a lot more people should be supportive of countries like Israel - given this kind of thing is considered abhorrent there - and Israel's the only secular democracy in the region (also, India, but noone has been so vehemently anti-India for no apparent reason, I didn't feel the need to make a point about it).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:06 AM on 04/04/2009
- zanzig I'm a Fan of zanzig 39 fans permalink

Look at an atlas before you make statements like this. Pakistan and Israel and NOT in the same region. One is in Asia and the other in Middle-East (border line Africa and Europe).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 AM on 04/04/2009
- Freenation I'm a Fan of Freenation 25 fans permalink

Did you read the news yesterday about Israel newspapers doctored photo, reason there was a woman in the photo along with the elected members...other incidence a woman in Jerusalem bus was beaten because she refused to sit in the back...

As for India...domestic violence is fairly high...women are routinely beaten for various reasons honor killings, dowry etc read the news (this is happening in all parts of India so don't come back with a pattern)....

This does not mean this poor girl was rightly beaten, but before you ask us to 'support' someone get your facts right...

An abuse is an abuse...who ever does it should be condemned to the fullest...as I stated in earlier post the people who committed this act should be publicly flogged for their act maybe 3 times more...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:15 AM on 04/04/2009
- regulargal I'm a Fan of regulargal 9 fans permalink

Israel is no better. To not offend Israel orthodox, papers in Israel recently Photoshopped out two women cabinet members from a group cabinet member photo. Where there is fundamentalism, there is subjugation, violence, demoralization and unequal rights for women. Just say no to religion!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:17 AM on 04/04/2009
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The IDF routinely carries out acts of violence against elderly Palestinians, women and children; they are hardly icons of restraint.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 AM on 04/04/2009
- OneWoman I'm a Fan of OneWoman 6 fans permalink

"He defended the punishment, although he said it should not have been done in public and should have been carried out by a boy who had not yet reached puberty."

To further increase your humiliation and ensure you know your place in society, woman, your 'punishment' is to be meted out by prepubescent BOYS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:59 AM on 04/04/2009
- Hillrick I'm a Fan of Hillrick 104 fans permalink
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I think they use boys because they are not as strong and because they will not become aroused. Remember, in this place it is the woman's fault for stirring a man's desire.
Probably as bad an example for young boys as taking your children to Hoooters and teaching them women should be half dressed and serving you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:28 AM on 04/04/2009

Also, by letting young boys mete out punishment to grown women, it will ensure that these boys know at a young age that they have power over women, that boys can humiliate women and beat them, and these boys will have the full support of their community.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 AM on 04/04/2009

Muslim Khan, spokesman for the Swat Taliban, said it should not have been done in public and should have been carried out by a boy who had not yet reached puberty.... WELL, DUH

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:56 AM on 04/04/2009
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I didn't watch the video (violence porn is still porn), but isn't this the same sort of thing al Qaeda would do in reverse: presenting Gitmo or Abu Graib as symbols of America and our values? I can't condemn such inhuman behavior in strong enough terms. These men are cowards and moral criminals, but does this mean it is the result of Islam? or of organized religion in general?

I belong to no church and claim only my parents as "my creator." It seems I believe like many posting to this thread that when I die the only afterlife I'll enjoy is in the belly of a worm. But the level of smug condemnation of religion in these posts is really sad, especially for a progressive site like this. It may benefit some of you to study the role of devout believers and the source of progressivism in this country. Were Wm. Lloyd Garrison, Jane Addams, and MLK jr. all bigots too? Is it "possible" that faith may also provide a path for Muslim nations to seek their own social order, or do they simply need to shut up and listen to us? Tolerance isn't easy and clips like this are disturbing, but it seems our energies might be better spent on, say, domestic violence at home rather than smug condemnations of people half a world away who we barely understand.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:54 AM on 04/04/2009
- All in All I'm a Fan of All in All 62 fans permalink

Well that might sit some people down for awhile.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:21 AM on 04/04/2009
- zanzig I'm a Fan of zanzig 39 fans permalink

Unfortunately some of us do understand the people in this clip, or other people very like these, having lived with them for a large part of our lives. And I can only say that I agree wholeheartedly with all those condemning religion. Most of the people - lets admit to it, men - who come up with religious reasons to beat women are sadists. There is absolutely no other reason. They use religion as their raison d'etre to indulge in their chauvnism and gullible idiots swallow their stories and myths that form religions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 AM on 04/04/2009
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Agreed, but don't you think mysogyny would still be prevalent even if there were no religions? I just think that ascribing the blame to a creed (any creed) gives a pass to the secular values of the culture that tolerates such behavior. I guess I'm just still preoccupied with Bush's legacy in the Muslim world, which can only be described as imperialism couched in religious chauvinish.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:05 PM on 04/04/2009
- Gatormouth I'm a Fan of Gatormouth 22 fans permalink
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But this is valuable to our understanding. Although the Deity may be, and I hope is, compassionate some of the Deity's followers are most certainly not! This holds true in Swat and in Gitmo. This could inform both the non-fundamentalists of Islam and Christianity and serve to create points of agreement between us. Mankind may be given events of this type to serve as mirrors. Who knows? I understand the Fundamentalist's aversion to being photographed, though. Who likes being shown as a bad example?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 04/04/2009
- Earl I'm a Fan of Earl 90 fans permalink
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When religion is the law, this is what you get. And don't forget those responsible for Abu Ghraib incidents were brought up with religion as well. Where else but church do Americans hear the weekly drumbeat of "false religions" and disparagement of other people and cultures? Check out "The End of Faith" by Sam Harris. Religion turns us against each other today the same way it has for centuries.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 AM on 04/04/2009
- Jane48 I'm a Fan of Jane48 15 fans permalink
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Well said. Domestic violence here in the U.S. is rampant. Men beating & killing & threatening & stalking women every day. Controlling & keeping women *down and powerless* is very important to many, many American men. The majority of the anti-abortion movement is all about the same thing...keep women powerless. Control them, Shame them, mock them, punish them, make them chattel. Some states still have the law that women are chattel.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:50 AM on 04/04/2009
- WSKI77 I'm a Fan of WSKI77 8 fans permalink
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Lets see....Christians call it, "spare the rod, spoil the child".
In catholic elementary school around 1960, we had three students marched up to the front of the class, told to bend over and were hit 3 time each with a ruler. I was spanked in front of the class in 1st grade. Yea.....beat the child....religion rules, which is why I have no religious affiliation and never spanked my children, who are now 24 and 21 and really good young adults.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:53 AM on 04/04/2009

Spare the rod, spoil the child" does not mean you should beat your kid with a stick, but rather guide and care for your children like a shepherd does his flock. the rod is a reference to the shepherd's crook.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:01 AM on 04/04/2009
- etcetc I'm a Fan of etcetc 5 fans permalink

The problem is- with religion- that people interpret these things differently. YOu interpreted it the wise way, and WSKI77's teachers interpreted in a way to justify violence against children.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 AM on 04/04/2009

not when i was in school!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 AM on 04/04/2009
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I spent years in a Catholic school where children were beaten with a ruler in front of the class. Spare the rod had a very different meaning than a "reference to a shepard's crook". Now grant you this was in the 50's, but in my Catholic school, being swat with a ruler in front of class was a very common tool used to keep children in line.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:12 AM on 04/04/2009
- poochytown I'm a Fan of poochytown 18 fans permalink

Talk about new wine in an old skin. I don't believe it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 AM on 04/04/2009
photo

At the catholic school I went to, Sister Mary Patricia (may she burn in hell forever) had a "board of education", a large paddle with holes drilled in it to reduce drag. She never gave less than 10 whacks and could swing like Mickey Mantle. Of course the belting we got at home later was even worse.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 AM on 04/04/2009
- TXfemmom I'm a Fan of TXfemmom 191 fans permalink

My goodness, isn't fundamentalist religion just grand? Fundamentist Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, all isms are dangerous to society.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:48 AM on 04/04/2009
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