Gun Permits: What The Latest Mass Killings Have In Common

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DEBORAH HASTINGS | 04/ 7/09 07:43 PM | AP

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FILE - This file image provided by News 10 Now in Syracuse, N.Y. on Monday April 6, 2009 shows Jiverly Wong's gun permit. A letter that included three photos, a gun permit and Wong's driver's license was mailed to News 10 Now and postmarked Friday April 3, the day Wong killed 13 people before taking his own life in the American Civic Association community center in Binghamton, N.Y. There have been seven rampages that have claimed 53 lives since March 10 in this country, and nearly every gunman in this month-long series of mass killings was legally entitled to wield the weapons he opened fire with. (AP Photo/News 10 Now)

They had more in common than unleashing carnage _ nearly every gunman in this monthlong series of mass killings was legally entitled to fire his weapons.

So what does that say about the state of gun control laws in this country? One thing appears certain: the regulations aren't getting stricter. Many recent efforts to change weapons laws have been about easing them.

Despite eight rampages that have claimed 57 lives since March 10, "it hasn't sparked any national goal to deal with this epidemic. In fact, it's going the other way," said Scott Vogel of the Freedom States Alliance, a gun control activist group.

Even President Barack Obama has felt that sway. Last month, 65 House Democrats said they would block any attempt to resurrect an expired federal ban against assault weapons.

The pro-gun Democrats, led by Rep. Mike Ross of Arkansas, wrote Attorney General Eric Holder saying they opposed not only a ban on military-style guns, but also efforts "to pass any similar law."

Gun control issues would only produce "a long and divisive fight," they said, at a time when Congress should be focused on the roiling economy.

A few states are trying to loosen gun restrictions. In the Texas Capitol _ where legislators can carry guns _ bills easily passed the Senate in recent weeks that would allow employees to bring weapons to work as long as they leave them locked in their cars, and let those packing heat off the legal hook if they walked into a bar that didn't have signs saying guns weren't allowed inside.

The state also is considering allowing students licensed to carry a concealed weapon _ there are about 300,000 such adults in Texas _ to bring guns on campus.

Story continues below

Kansas plans to put a measure on its 2010 ballot that would rewrite the state constitution to make gun ownership a personal, rather than collective, right. In Tennessee, lawmakers made progress this month toward allowing guns to be carried in state and local parks.

"I think you're seeing a continuing change of culture," Vogel said. "I think the gun lobby wants to take away any stigma to gun ownership. I think they feel emboldened, like who's going to stop them?"

The National Rifle Association, the country's most powerful gun lobbying group, declined to comment this week on gun control laws. "Now is not the time to debate politics or discuss policy. It is time for families and communities to grieve and to heal," it said in a prepared statement.

Groups such as Vogel's, and the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, say existing laws are already too weak _ just look at the men who received gun permits, legally bought high-powered weapons, and then mowed down family, friends and total strangers in these past few weeks, they say.

Joining their outrage was the U.S. Conference of Mayors. "How many more gun-related acts of violence must we experience before the nation's leaders will decide that it is time to act?" asked president Manuel Diaz, mayor of Miami.

Gun enthusiasts say there is no way to prevent human beings from committing insane acts _ whether they have a gun permit or not. And studies conflict on whether stricter gun laws lessen gun violence.

On Friday, a depressed and angry Jiverly Wong used a 9 mm and .45-caliber handgun to kill 13 immigrants and service center employees in Binghamton, N.Y., police said. Earlier that day, the ethnic Chinese immigrant from Vietnam mailed an envelope to a Syracuse television station. In it were his gun permit, photos of him smiling while hoisting shiny, big handguns, and his driver's license.

Questions have been raised over the upstate New York gun permit issued to Wong in 1997. Two years later, he was reported to state police by an informer who claimed Wong was planning a bank heist to feed a crack-cocaine habit. Unlike other areas of the state, including New York City, Wong's Broome County permit did not have to be renewed.

Local authorities, however, have broad discretion in reviewing and revoking such permits, according to legal experts. Especially when it comes to drug use, criminal behavior and violence.

"In retrospect, this is probably not a guy who should have had a gun," said attorney Jeffrey Chamberlain, a former Rochester prosecutor and chief counsel to the New York State Police. "No one likes to see things fall through the cracks and it looks like this guy fell through the cracks."

Binghamton police chief Joseph Zikuski said Tuesday that no robbery occurred and there was no merit to review Wong's gun permit.

In New York City, gun permits are reissued every three years.

Yet, regulations differ only slightly between states, Chamberlain said. "They're fairly typical _ don't be a felon, don't be a drunk, don't beat your kids or your wife. Don't be so mentally unbalanced that you need be in an institution."

To Chamberlain, the answer to gun violence lies not in stricter regulations, but in answering the question, "Why are we so tolerant of having guns in this country? The answer to that is historical. We've had guns for a very long time.

"I can't think of any sweeping law change that would address that."

To Vogel, the answer to why atrocities happen in places such as Binghamton, and before that Washington state and Santa Clara, Calif., lies in sheer numbers.

The number 280 million, to be precise, the estimated total of every gun in this country.

"When you have that many guns, those guns are going to be used in horrific ways," Vogel said. "There's just too many. Inevitably, somehow, some way, those weapons are going to be used in an egregious way."

They had more in common than unleashing carnage _ nearly every gunman in this monthlong series of mass killings was legally entitled to fire his weapons. So what does that say about the state of gun ...
They had more in common than unleashing carnage _ nearly every gunman in this monthlong series of mass killings was legally entitled to fire his weapons. So what does that say about the state of gun ...
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- tbonehead I'm a Fan of tbonehead 15 fans permalink

when will we legalize personal nuke pkgs? (PNP's)! PNP's will make every American feel safe at home, school, work, parks and play. We'll be the first country to establish the freedom to carry nuclear arms to work or to the restaurant. No shortage of amo ever. Everyone will be forced to say hello, in the friendliest tones; mutual destruction is guaranteed to keep the peace; collateral damage is just the cost of doing business, but noone will suffer, long. A PNP in every home and car as long as America lasts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 04/08/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 183 fans permalink
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Would have get the weight down first. The smallest nukes weigh about six hundred pounds and most of that weight is fuel....Oh, yoe were being satirical?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:17 PM on 04/08/2009

Not true...tactical nuclear weapons fit on standard missiles and weigh far less...just so you know! LOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:57 PM on 04/08/2009
- dan-o I'm a Fan of dan-o 5 fans permalink

I saw a Nuke being loaded on a B-52 bomber about 25 yrs ago. I realize electronics have been made a lot smaller but I still think that the nuke would not fit into my concealed pistol holster.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:14 PM on 04/08/2009
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

Since the only people talking about the "right" to own nukes, grenades and WMDs are the gun ban supporters, I would guess that nukes probably will never be legalized

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:27 PM on 04/08/2009
- mesoholy I'm a Fan of mesoholy 5 fans permalink

On the bright side, it's a very effective way of population control.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 PM on 04/08/2009
- jozinha I'm a Fan of jozinha 21 fans permalink
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On the dark side, it makes EVERYONE para noi d, not just the cr azies who think they need guns, and the even cr azier ones who use them on perfect strangers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:25 PM on 04/08/2009
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Fact is it's political suicide to fight against the NRA. Here in GA, politicians have been openly threatened by NRA lobbyists to have their political careers ruined if they if they vote against gun bills that come before the legislature. Isn't it amazing that government works so much for the big guy and so little for the little guy?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:55 PM on 04/08/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 183 fans permalink
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You're right. It will a major assassination or a wholesale slaugher which includes celebrities before our politicians will have the public support needed to pass meaningful regulation. That's what it took in Australia in 1995.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 04/08/2009
- BruceHNV I'm a Fan of BruceHNV 64 fans permalink

Oh, don't worry. It will happen soon enough.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:24 PM on 04/08/2009
- Glocksf21 I'm a Fan of Glocksf21 20 fans permalink
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If our govt. enforced current gunlaws, we would not be having this discussion. Oakland (violent criminal let out of prison on parole, )-Pitts. gunman kicked out of the military (dis honorable dischargeand other domestic disturbances)) NY- this guy had mental problems and they knew he was armed, police said he slipped through the cracks. The father that killed his kids-history domestic abuse. If we do not enforce the current laws how are they going to enforce new laws.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:42 PM on 04/08/2009
- BruceHNV I'm a Fan of BruceHNV 64 fans permalink

There aren't enough police to enforce the current laws, nor enough information sharing.

And there's no background check for rifles.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:51 PM on 04/08/2009
- Glocksf21 I'm a Fan of Glocksf21 20 fans permalink
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so all that paper work i filled out was bogus. and I should not have had to wait 10hrs for the background check? to buY a ruger 10/22.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 04/08/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 183 fans permalink
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In virtually every case of mass murder this year, the gun owners were legally entitled to own the weapons they used to commit their crimes. State law and. local law are what prevail when it comes to gun ownership. Dubya's sheep gutted Federal Law during his tenure. That's why the article mentions that there is no longer a Federal ban on the ownership of assault rifles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_(by_state)
The circumstances you allude to don't prevent ownership in most states. Nor, is there yet any law anywhere in the US allowing any authority to pull a gun permit, once issued, without judicial due process we even if it is issued to someone who turns out to be a nutter.

We have seriously dysfunctional attitudes about gun control in the US. And, our laws correspond to the rhythm method of birth control.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 04/08/2009
- Dimensio I'm a Fan of Dimensio 22 fans permalink

Are you suggesting that it would be preferrable to allow the revocation of a Constitutionally protected right without due process?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:20 PM on 04/08/2009

I love the people who think they will take on the most powerful military on earth with their handguns.

First of all they have a wildly unrealistic concept of how a "take over" will occur. When Bush rewrote entire sections of the Constitution....did he send any tanks down Main Street? Nope.

So can one of these people please explain under what circumstances it would ever be necessary to send an armored tank division to Battle Creek, MI? If the President and Congress want to change something....they just change it! No tanks necessary. Bush CLEARLY demonstrated that, didn't he?

And if our government truly was "crazed" and out of control....wouldn't they just carpet bomb "resistance fighters" from the air? Do you really think they would waste time sending in foot soliders to personally wrestle you to the ground? They'd just have a tank bulldoze your house and blow you up from the sky.

But again....WHY would it ever be necessary to use the military to do anything? So long as the Repubs have running water, beer and cable TV they won't complain. Bush CLEARLY demonstrated that as well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:40 PM on 04/08/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 183 fans permalink
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Well, if I remember correctly, In my distant misspent childhood Quaker Puffed Rice was advertised as being "shot from guns." Maybe, Kellog's or General Mills is devising a new cereal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 04/08/2009

Obama better not try to attack me with a Blackhawk Attack Helicopter. I'z got's me a handgun!

Hmmm. Now that I say that out loud it sounds utterly ridiculous.

See...the "right to bear arms" made a lot of sense in 1778 when BOTH the military and the citizen were limited to single shot muskets.

But I'm stunned otherwise educated people still believe with all their heart that owing a handgun is going to "empower" them to fend off the government.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:21 PM on 04/08/2009

Why not replace handguns with tasers or some other non-lethal weapon?

Walking down a dark alley? A taser is EXACTLY as effective as a handgun...even more so because you won't hesitate to fire it becaus eyou know it won't kill someone. And if there are 2 or 3 people (with guns) who are about to mug you? Then how would a handgun be anymore effective? In REALITY those muggers would have their guns drawn and pointed at your head long before you could say, "2nd amendment."

Someone breaks into your house with a gun? Again, a taser is exactly has effective as a handgun.

The real problem with our gun culture is that we have millions of people with unrealistic fantasies about how a crime will occur and how they will react. They watch these old crime movies from the 70's and think, "Yeah! I'll just whip my gun out and the minority will just run away in terror!" Nope. In real life you'll just get shot in the back of the head and the criminal will steal your wallet. There is no "dramatic" confrontation wherein you "heroically" scare away the bad guys.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:34 PM on 04/08/2009
- Dimensio I'm a Fan of Dimensio 22 fans permalink

A "tazer" is not as effective as a handgun at deterring a criminal attack. A tazer must be manually reloaded after being discharged once, and imposes a significantly greater possibility of failing to stop an attacker than does a bullet.

Your assertion regarding "unrealistic fantasies" is entirely unsubstantiated. It is irrational and dishonest to use vague and unjustified generalizations as the basis for an argument.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:52 PM on 04/08/2009
- Glocksf21 I'm a Fan of Glocksf21 20 fans permalink
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George Washington: "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the
people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than
99% of them [guns] by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very
atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference [crime]. When firearms go, all goes,
we need them every hour." (Address to 1st session of Congress)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:10 PM on 04/08/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 183 fans permalink
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http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndbog.html

Bull hockey. You want to discuss gun control issues? Fine. Only weaklings need bogus crutches.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:16 PM on 04/08/2009
- Glocksf21 I'm a Fan of Glocksf21 20 fans permalink
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Bill Clinton: (US President, has sworn an oath to defend the US Constitution, (not to violate it,
criticize it, and belittle it)) "When we got organized as a country, [and] wrote a fairly radical
Constitution, with a radical Bill of Rights, giving radical amounts of freedom to Americans, it was
assumed that Americans who had that freedom would use it responsibly...When personal freedom is
being abused, you have to move to limit it." (April 19 1994, on MTV) I GUESS YOUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH SHOULD BE LIMITED!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:24 PM on 04/08/2009
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I believe our current assailant's guns were silent until he decided to unload on innocent civilans.
Maybe if the victims could have heard them coming before he got in the building, some of them may have survived.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 PM on 04/08/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 183 fans permalink
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My girl friend just told to be plain. Your quote is phony. http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndbog.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:23 PM on 04/08/2009
- jozinha I'm a Fan of jozinha 21 fans permalink
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We don't need to sh oot a possum for dinner.

We don't have to sh oot critters who poach our livestock.

We live in a totally different era than our founding fathers, who had a utilitarian need for f ire arms hundreds of years ago that no longer apply.

That you don't immediately see the differences means you have a major fix ation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:23 PM on 04/08/2009
- JulieSA I'm a Fan of JulieSA 165 fans permalink
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"We don't have to sh oot critters who poach our livestock."

Actually, we do. Did you not know there are still ranchers in this country?

I live in the city, and I have mine mainly for self-defense against se x offenders, as well as sport, and they've served me well in both those capacities. It's none of your business why someone needs a gun. It's in the bill of rights.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 PM on 04/08/2009
- TFlint I'm a Fan of TFlint 42 fans permalink
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He was talking about single shot muzzle loading muskets, not AK47s.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:49 PM on 04/08/2009
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The last comments in the article are true, no matter what side of the debate you are on.
Guns are meant to be shot, and many guns, especially military style, are meant to be shot AT PEOPLE. NOT TO STOP THEM, HURT THEM, OR THREATEN. MILITARY GUNS ARE MEANT FOR KILLING PEOPLE.
It is complete lunacy to believe that anyone has a personal 'right' to own such a thing in a civil society. It is really too bad that restrictions would not help, it is a cultural problem. You cannot reason with these people, because they live, breath, and believe in the lies they perpetuate. Ask them what Jesus would do about their assault rifles and I am sure whatever they would answer would only prove my point.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 PM on 04/08/2009
- Dimensio I'm a Fan of Dimensio 22 fans permalink

Firearms constructed solely for military use are not readily available for civilians in the United States, however many "military" firearms were initially derived from firearms designed for hunting purposes, and many hunting firearms were derived from firearms designed for military use. It is irrational and unreasonable to examine the "military" purpose of a firearm in assessing its suitability on a civilian market.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:52 PM on 04/08/2009
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Dimensio.....You seem to take great pleasure in pontificating and correcting the blogs of everyone. My mother used to call people like you a know-it-all and that wasn't a compliment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:06 PM on 04/08/2009
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my family are hunters, and we've never used an assault weapon to hunt for food, that is why it is called an 'assault weapon'...regardless what model a gun is designed after, they do have specific purposes, very obvious ones.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:11 PM on 04/08/2009
- Skepticat I'm a Fan of Skepticat 64 fans permalink
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Many of the military derived weapons were converted from full auto to semi for sale - but can easily be converted back. A few years ago while working in public safety my section got invited to a training session on gang weapons and we had the opportunity to handle an AK-47 taken from a gangsta that was fully auto. There were also fully auto uzis and various machine pistols.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:28 PM on 04/08/2009
- StanDaMan I'm a Fan of StanDaMan 4 fans permalink

What it says is that the gun manufacturers, NRA and gun-friendly PACs are calling the shots (excuse the pun) when it comes to gun "control" laws and policies while, year after year, tens of thousands of Americans are wounded and die in the streets in a blood-bath of carnage. IT'S TOTALLY INSANE!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 PM on 04/08/2009

There should be new laws put in place for people like Glen Beck and Michelle Bachman inciting violence. People have to start being held accountable for what they do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:20 PM on 04/08/2009

Right after Bill Ayers?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:31 PM on 04/08/2009
- BruceHNV I'm a Fan of BruceHNV 64 fans permalink

Bill was arrested and tried for what he did. How 'bout them other inciters?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 PM on 04/08/2009
- Portnoy I'm a Fan of Portnoy 16 fans permalink

Yell FIRE! in a crowded theater or BOMB! in an airport and see how far Free Speech takes you.

These people are inciting people to commit acts of violence. They should be held accountable for their words. We have a process in this country of electing our leaders. Neo-cons and the right try to subvert the process. A clear majority of this country's population made it celar that they want to move forward in the direction President Obama has set. The republicans and their NRA buddies are a small minority.

Time to let the grown-ups run things for a while..Let the little cowboys go to bed early.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:41 PM on 04/08/2009
- JulieSA I'm a Fan of JulieSA 165 fans permalink
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Randi Rhodes threatened Bush's life, and Keith Olbermann ranted and raved about Bush's fascism. What they said was much worse than anything Beck, etc have said.

And yet, no one on the right ever called for "new laws" to censor them. We criticized their vicious rants, but we never called for the government to crack down on them. It's too bad there's so little regard for all of our rights on the left.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:51 PM on 04/08/2009
- BruceHNV I'm a Fan of BruceHNV 64 fans permalink

Olbermann speaks truth to power. He does not go off wild-eyed looneytunes with undocumented and made-up BS. He expresses his opinions forcefully, but with a solid foundation which he airs at the same time.

Randi Rhodes made a bad joke (did not THREATEN anyone) and APOLOGIZED. Any of yer right-wingnutters apologize for anything yet? Or do they just keep escalating?

Don't defend those jackanapes. It makes you look like you don't know how to think.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:41 PM on 04/08/2009
- mtdem4ever I'm a Fan of mtdem4ever 62 fans permalink
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Maybe that's because the people who listen to Rhodes and Olbermann are smart enough to realize they are talking heads. On the other hand, those who listen to Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, the "politician" Bachmann, etc. aren't smart enough to know the difference and so take everything they say as fact.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:43 PM on 04/08/2009
- TFlint I'm a Fan of TFlint 42 fans permalink
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Protect your right to kill your children with an assault rifle.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:52 PM on 04/08/2009
- EyeDoc007 I'm a Fan of EyeDoc007 5 fans permalink
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Don't forget Marylin Manson and those crazy songs he sings.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:55 PM on 04/08/2009
- Portnoy I'm a Fan of Portnoy 16 fans permalink

We need to face the facts: The righ wing gun supporters are planning something big. There are ammo shortages in may states. From what I have heard, they are buying bullets by the pallet load!

These massacres are jus tthe beginning. The right, with their tea bagging parties are gearing up for a near assault on November's election. This is sedition pure and simple.

Make no mistake: Something drastic is going to happen and its going to be one of these right wing lunatics behind it. You and your children are not safe unless we petition our Government to step in and put this down once and for all. We need to act now on gun control We can debate mental health tillthe cows come home, but the fact remains, these people would be alive today if these lunatics did not have a gun.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 PM on 04/08/2009
- jozinha I'm a Fan of jozinha 21 fans permalink
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Fear m onger ing. You're no better than Alex Jones and the rest of his cu ckoos.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:29 PM on 04/08/2009

Oy, Portnoy. I suppose 911 was an inside job too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 PM on 04/08/2009
- missette I'm a Fan of missette 22 fans permalink

Interesting you bring up 9/11. Our government did not heed the warning signs then either - an FBI agent in Minnesota, flight school director in Arizona, and the ominous memo in August - all ignored.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:07 PM on 04/08/2009
- zippy01 I'm a Fan of zippy01 5 fans permalink

Stop trying to scare people to get what you want.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 PM on 04/08/2009
- BruceHNV I'm a Fan of BruceHNV 64 fans permalink

Right. That is strictly Republican territory.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:37 PM on 04/08/2009

We need to face the facts: The righ wing gun supporters are planning something big. There are ammo shortages in may states. From what I have heard, they are buying bullets by the pallet load!

That is true, there is a ammo shortage but the rest of what you say is insane, what have you been smoking. More gun control is not the answer, what we need to do is make murder a mandatory capital crime, in other words you murder someone, you get the death penalty, no appeals, no parole. it's that simple. You also get rid of these cry baby civil liberty groups like the ACLU, tht will eliminate alot of problems.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:10 PM on 04/08/2009
- BruceHNV I'm a Fan of BruceHNV 64 fans permalink

Y-know - Portnoy sounds just like...oh, I don't know...

One of the big-time gun advocates!

You guys can't see crazy when you're spewing it, or acknowledge it in your own, but let a "lib" sound the least bit "para noid" and you're all over it like white on rice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 04/08/2009
- nadin I'm a Fan of nadin 4 fans permalink

making murder a mandatory capital crime as a way to get rid of murder is as smart as saying we should ban all guns. Not sure how a person who kills his whole family and then himself is going to be deterred by it being a capital offense. INVEST IN ANTI_VIOLENCE. Ask the NRA to put money into domestic violence agencies, mental health intervention, and gang intervention. Support gang truces. Make sure that low-level ex offenders get placed in real jobs with real educations so they dont go back on the street (I have seen this work with my own eyes). Make sure there is better information sharing with mental health workers and the NCIS so that folks with serious mental problems can't buy guns. Seriously discourage buying children toy guns (trust me they are more dangerous than toy guns). People with real guns in the house should not buy video games that are first person shooter (responsible gun owners tell their kids to never point a gun at anyone, so they shouldn't do it for play). That is how you stop violence

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:33 PM on 04/08/2009
- BruceHNV I'm a Fan of BruceHNV 64 fans permalink

Portnoy - the run on ammo is no more well-coordinated than the run on the banks that set off the Great Depression.

It's the same mentality. A bunch of individual para noid scaredy-cats freaking out and causing more trouble than had they kept calm.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:28 PM on 04/08/2009
- vendetta I'm a Fan of vendetta 5 fans permalink

Most drunk drivers have licenses.
Most crooked cops have badges.
Most crooked bankers have degrees.
Most crooked politicians have supporters.
etc, etc, etc...

WHAT'S THE POINT OF THE HEADLINE?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 04/08/2009
- jozinha I'm a Fan of jozinha 21 fans permalink
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Your handle: what's your agenda? No, don't tell me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 PM on 04/08/2009
- qdog112 I'm a Fan of qdog112 71 fans permalink
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To dispel the myth that only "criminals" with illegal guns commit gun crimes.

Can you wrap your mind around that?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 PM on 04/08/2009

Right On the Money!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:17 PM on 04/08/2009
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One down................a whole lot more to go!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:20 PM on 04/08/2009
- All in All I'm a Fan of All in All 63 fans permalink

USCitizen2009:

Fine. Use psychological testing before issuing a gun permit. This is great. And all the honest gun owners will adhere to this.

But then the criminal element is a different story. They do not obtain their guns from reputable dealers. They get theirs from different black markets and such. So, all this testing would do NOTHING to stem the criminal's use of any type of gun.
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All in All:

While You're partially right, You fail to mention that these latest shootings were done by non-criminals.

So testing would help on that side of things.
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elizlucinda:

okay..then you would only have to worry about criminals and those that lack the capacity to own a gun..Thats a good start.
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What's the new right-wing word of the day "punishment"...........

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 AM on 04/08/2009
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Man. I feel like I am with liberals on almost every issue--except this one. Come on. We have to get over the idea the we as a society can control everything that people do. We simply cannot, and for every nut job that opens fire, there are thousands of responsible gun owners. Restrictive laws are not going to help, but maybe some compassion towards people before they go postal would help.

Oh, and by the way, Ms Hastings. No permit gives you the right to fire your weapon. The permit gives you the right to own it, maybe to carry it in a certain way. You have no right to fire, and if you ever did fire a weapon in anger--even in self defense--you would soon find out exactly how our laws handle that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:46 AM on 04/08/2009
- motoboy I'm a Fan of motoboy 18 fans permalink
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alfredjr,

I feel exactly the same as you on this: I am a liberal, but disarming the populace is not a liberal position. It is a very totalitarian position.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:53 AM on 04/08/2009
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I for one am not advocating the total restriction of guns in the U.S. It is far too late to suggest that, even if that was my position.

It seems to me that people are becoming much too desensitized to the fact that 21 people have been killed in mass shootings in the U.S. in the past month. These people were loved and will be missed by someone.

Restrictive gun laws do help...whether you wish to believe it or not . You only need to look to the number of deaths by guns in Canada on a PER CAPITA basis as compared to the U.S. .I would suggest the difference can be explained by Canada's more restrictive gun laws.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 PM on 04/08/2009
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"disarming the populace is not a liberal position. It is a very totalitarian position."

Damn. Thank you for putting it out there in words that can be easily understood.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 04/08/2009
- Borborigny I'm a Fan of Borborigny 6 fans permalink
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You mean I'm not the only one? That feels nice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 AM on 04/08/2009
- All in All I'm a Fan of All in All 63 fans permalink

While I agree with You on the passion part, I have to block You on the anti-law part!

Restrictive laws aren't a end to all means, however they do help; ask the police & other people whom follow those laws themselves and rather that other people would do the same.

How's that boarder doing....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 04/08/2009

Goto Wikipedia and look up Democide.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 PM on 04/08/2009
- jozinha I'm a Fan of jozinha 21 fans permalink
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Look up the data for gun ram pages in other developed countries, and then look up their gun laws.

Then weep for this country and its insan ities and denials.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 PM on 04/08/2009
- nadin I'm a Fan of nadin 4 fans permalink

This "look at Europe" stuff is flawed. A new york times study found that when you ONLY look at europe, countries with the highest rate of gun ownership have LOWER murder rates. Europe is not the US. In Germany (some of the strictest gun laws in the world) after the most recent mass shooting, the president admitted that what was needed was not more gun laws (b/c they where already strict) but an investment in change of "culture".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:38 PM on 04/08/2009

It's going to be a very busy recession for American swat teams, hostage negotiators, and paramedics, and a bloody bonanza for nightly, and cable news anchors. Funeral homes should have a profitable recession as well, offering massacre discounts, to try and get all the victims. There is financial desperation, and mental illness all over the world, but it's a sure bet that at the end of this global recession, America will lead the world in recession related gun deaths, and murder-suicides by a wide margin. We are the champions. I'm sure Vegas has that bet on the board.

If you take together the total populations of the other advanced industrialized nations (Japan, Australia, Canada, UK, Germany, France, Spain, Scandinavia etc.,) until it approximates our population number, their total guns deaths for a year are in the hundreds, while our gun deaths are in the thousands. What is it that is unique in American society which creates more irrational, violent criminal behavior, and gun deaths than other advanced countries? If it's not the easier access to guns in America which is responsible for that disparity, then are we Americans just a more homicidal, and emotionally weak natured people?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 AM on 04/08/2009
- Borborigny I'm a Fan of Borborigny 6 fans permalink
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Ok, I'll bite: we are as a society more homicidal. We kill thousands of civilians in illegal wars and call it "collateral damage." We encourage our military to follow orders, no matter how illegal. We let our leaders do things far, far worse than shooting up an immigrant center. We execute people to show how bad killing is. "Culture of life" -- ha!

The real question is: who profits from the status quo? Who profits from your ongoing state of terror? Hint: Dwight Eisenhower warned us about 'em.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 AM on 04/08/2009

Hey Eisenhower, thanks for bringing us the Vietnam War

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:47 AM on 04/08/2009

Hey Eisenhower, thanks for bringing us the V ietnam W ar

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:47 AM on 04/08/2009
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Borborigny...Perhaps you would feel better if you went for a walk because right now you are ranting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 AM on 04/08/2009
- JulieSA I'm a Fan of JulieSA 165 fans permalink
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Why do the Japanese and Swiss have a far higher suicide rate than we do?

Cultural differences.

The Swiss have a higher gun ownership rate than we do, and adult males keep fully-automatic assault rifles at home for national defense. But they have a very low murder rate.

When you combine suicide and homicide rates, we have about the same rate of lives taken by man's hand as those low murder rate countries. It's all very interesting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 AM on 04/08/2009

Why with all the guns do the Swiss murder so much less than we do? And our suicide rate is nothing to sneeze at and is increasing. I don't know what's behind the higher suicide rate in Japan and Switzerland, but why is our murder rate so much higher than other European countries? What is it in our culture that explains that in your opinion? Is it something in our value system? Do you feel that we value life less?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 PM on 04/08/2009
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Thanks Julie.
That is very interesting. I'm going to have to check into that. Where do you get your info?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 PM on 04/08/2009
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