Gun Permits: What The Latest Mass Killings Have In Common

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DEBORAH HASTINGS | 04/ 7/09 07:43 PM | AP

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FILE - This file image provided by News 10 Now in Syracuse, N.Y. on Monday April 6, 2009 shows Jiverly Wong's gun permit. A letter that included three photos, a gun permit and Wong's driver's license was mailed to News 10 Now and postmarked Friday April 3, the day Wong killed 13 people before taking his own life in the American Civic Association community center in Binghamton, N.Y. There have been seven rampages that have claimed 53 lives since March 10 in this country, and nearly every gunman in this month-long series of mass killings was legally entitled to wield the weapons he opened fire with. (AP Photo/News 10 Now)

They had more in common than unleashing carnage _ nearly every gunman in this monthlong series of mass killings was legally entitled to fire his weapons.

So what does that say about the state of gun control laws in this country? One thing appears certain: the regulations aren't getting stricter. Many recent efforts to change weapons laws have been about easing them.

Despite eight rampages that have claimed 57 lives since March 10, "it hasn't sparked any national goal to deal with this epidemic. In fact, it's going the other way," said Scott Vogel of the Freedom States Alliance, a gun control activist group.

Even President Barack Obama has felt that sway. Last month, 65 House Democrats said they would block any attempt to resurrect an expired federal ban against assault weapons.

The pro-gun Democrats, led by Rep. Mike Ross of Arkansas, wrote Attorney General Eric Holder saying they opposed not only a ban on military-style guns, but also efforts "to pass any similar law."

Gun control issues would only produce "a long and divisive fight," they said, at a time when Congress should be focused on the roiling economy.

A few states are trying to loosen gun restrictions. In the Texas Capitol _ where legislators can carry guns _ bills easily passed the Senate in recent weeks that would allow employees to bring weapons to work as long as they leave them locked in their cars, and let those packing heat off the legal hook if they walked into a bar that didn't have signs saying guns weren't allowed inside.

The state also is considering allowing students licensed to carry a concealed weapon _ there are about 300,000 such adults in Texas _ to bring guns on campus.

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Kansas plans to put a measure on its 2010 ballot that would rewrite the state constitution to make gun ownership a personal, rather than collective, right. In Tennessee, lawmakers made progress this month toward allowing guns to be carried in state and local parks.

"I think you're seeing a continuing change of culture," Vogel said. "I think the gun lobby wants to take away any stigma to gun ownership. I think they feel emboldened, like who's going to stop them?"

The National Rifle Association, the country's most powerful gun lobbying group, declined to comment this week on gun control laws. "Now is not the time to debate politics or discuss policy. It is time for families and communities to grieve and to heal," it said in a prepared statement.

Groups such as Vogel's, and the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, say existing laws are already too weak _ just look at the men who received gun permits, legally bought high-powered weapons, and then mowed down family, friends and total strangers in these past few weeks, they say.

Joining their outrage was the U.S. Conference of Mayors. "How many more gun-related acts of violence must we experience before the nation's leaders will decide that it is time to act?" asked president Manuel Diaz, mayor of Miami.

Gun enthusiasts say there is no way to prevent human beings from committing insane acts _ whether they have a gun permit or not. And studies conflict on whether stricter gun laws lessen gun violence.

On Friday, a depressed and angry Jiverly Wong used a 9 mm and .45-caliber handgun to kill 13 immigrants and service center employees in Binghamton, N.Y., police said. Earlier that day, the ethnic Chinese immigrant from Vietnam mailed an envelope to a Syracuse television station. In it were his gun permit, photos of him smiling while hoisting shiny, big handguns, and his driver's license.

Questions have been raised over the upstate New York gun permit issued to Wong in 1997. Two years later, he was reported to state police by an informer who claimed Wong was planning a bank heist to feed a crack-cocaine habit. Unlike other areas of the state, including New York City, Wong's Broome County permit did not have to be renewed.

Local authorities, however, have broad discretion in reviewing and revoking such permits, according to legal experts. Especially when it comes to drug use, criminal behavior and violence.

"In retrospect, this is probably not a guy who should have had a gun," said attorney Jeffrey Chamberlain, a former Rochester prosecutor and chief counsel to the New York State Police. "No one likes to see things fall through the cracks and it looks like this guy fell through the cracks."

Binghamton police chief Joseph Zikuski said Tuesday that no robbery occurred and there was no merit to review Wong's gun permit.

In New York City, gun permits are reissued every three years.

Yet, regulations differ only slightly between states, Chamberlain said. "They're fairly typical _ don't be a felon, don't be a drunk, don't beat your kids or your wife. Don't be so mentally unbalanced that you need be in an institution."

To Chamberlain, the answer to gun violence lies not in stricter regulations, but in answering the question, "Why are we so tolerant of having guns in this country? The answer to that is historical. We've had guns for a very long time.

"I can't think of any sweeping law change that would address that."

To Vogel, the answer to why atrocities happen in places such as Binghamton, and before that Washington state and Santa Clara, Calif., lies in sheer numbers.

The number 280 million, to be precise, the estimated total of every gun in this country.

"When you have that many guns, those guns are going to be used in horrific ways," Vogel said. "There's just too many. Inevitably, somehow, some way, those weapons are going to be used in an egregious way."

They had more in common than unleashing carnage _ nearly every gunman in this monthlong series of mass killings was legally entitled to fire his weapons. So what does that say about the state of gun ...
They had more in common than unleashing carnage _ nearly every gunman in this monthlong series of mass killings was legally entitled to fire his weapons. So what does that say about the state of gun ...
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- Boboday555 I'm a Fan of Boboday555 116 fans permalink
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Police are for stricter gun control laws while the NRA and GOP are for loosening gun control laws.
If forced to decide, I'll side with the police every time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:37 AM on 04/08/2009

Boboday, what cities are these police officers in? Washington, DC? New Yourk City? This doesn't surprise me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:43 AM on 04/08/2009
- loria I'm a Fan of loria 152 fans permalink
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I'm sure those three officers who were killed by the assault rifle would have preferred to go up against a semi automatic. Thank God we have police officers, they are brave to do what they do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:43 AM on 04/08/2009
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I understand your point of view. I would rather be allowed to see evidence and judge from a less partial point of few. The reason I say that isthis: Over the years cops , while having the total backing of the government and well meaning citizens like yourself, have also done some pretty terrible things with guns and for the worst of reasons. I know most are well meaning, but the recent past shows me that they should not be dismissed from this discussion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 AM on 04/08/2009
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Point of view......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:52 AM on 04/08/2009

Of course the police favor gun control.

They don't want anyone k illing people except them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 AM on 04/08/2009
- sixchair I'm a Fan of sixchair 52 fans permalink

I'm in favor of gun control, because we should do what we can. We all own highly lethal weapons that we use aggressively and irresponsibly - cars. While thousands of victims fall prey to guns each year, (29,000 in '04) far more die on the road (41,509 in '07), and there isn't but a peep in the media. Also, note on a daily basis, that most gun deaths are white males over 40, suicide. http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/04/21/weekinreview/20070422_MARSH_GRAPHIC.html

I have prostate cancer, of which 30,000 men die each year. But there is precious little coverage and little gov't. focus on that. ( or other cancers, btw ). I wonder how many of those male suicides are also cancer-related?

I'm saying, if saved lives are the metric, let's get a little more focus on the less "spectacular" but manageable causes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 AM on 04/08/2009
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Let's outlaw Penises...­.that would reduce violence across the board!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 AM on 04/08/2009
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You go first. I'll be an outlaw.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 AM on 04/08/2009
- sixchair I'm a Fan of sixchair 52 fans permalink

Must be a lot of women with penises out there, judging by the way they tear around in their Ford Expeditions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:04 AM on 04/08/2009
- loria I'm a Fan of loria 152 fans permalink
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Should we outlaw cars? I'm not understanding what you are saying.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:37 AM on 04/08/2009
- sixchair I'm a Fan of sixchair 52 fans permalink

No, make cars safer, enforce laws, take drunks off the road, crack down on cell phone use, etc. Point is really about media though, focusing only on sensational murders/gun control. When was the last time you heard about a drunk killing a family of 4 in a head-on in the nat'l news? Not as much crime scene tape, I guess.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:03 AM on 04/08/2009

True. I agree. But not so much with car aspect of your point.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 AM on 04/08/2009
- sixchair I'm a Fan of sixchair 52 fans permalink

Yeah, but traffic deaths we can do more about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:04 AM on 04/08/2009
- dannydog I'm a Fan of dannydog 2 fans permalink
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Gun shows make all of these 'restrictive' laws moot. Most people don't seem to be aware that you can buy and sell guns with no restrictions at these events. Attendants, both purchasers and sellers, represent the heart of the gun-obsessed, hobbyists and collectors in the US. I attended one recently in Victoria, Texas. Business was exceptional because these people are convinced that Obama is going to confiscate or ban their favorite weapons. Many of the conversations I overheard revolved around Obama's race, imagined religion, liberalism etc. He is the enemy to those who see the entire world through the prism of gun-ownership. Like the sex-crazed religions right, these people are organized and entirely convinced that their rights are being trampled on. They are dangerous. After the gun show I was in a restaurant with my Dad, a card-carrying NRA member and enemy of all wildlife. The Binghampton loonie had just gone off and killed 13 people. Dad seemed a little sad at the news but the fact that the guy was armed to the teeth had no effect on him. He actually said that if some of the victims had been armed this wouldn't have happened. With crazies like Michelle Bachmann and Glen Beck stirring up the paranoiacs like my father and his buddies there will be more of these incidents. Obama had better watch his ass. It's just a matter of time before one of these Proud Americans goes off in his direction.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 AM on 04/08/2009
- NWRICK I'm a Fan of NWRICK 273 fans permalink
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Well, I guess we are not going to solve the problem here and now.
It is a good debate, though.
I must go to work now.
Have a great day, folks!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 04/08/2009
- All in All I'm a Fan of All in All 62 fans permalink

Have a good day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 AM on 04/08/2009
- loria I'm a Fan of loria 152 fans permalink
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It will never be solved. We live in a gun cultrue where an rational attempt to control guns is seen as an assault on gun ownership. When it comes to gun control all rational thinking goes out the door.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:33 AM on 04/08/2009

Show me a rational attempt to control guns in the hands of the criminal aspect of society, and I will be behind it 100%. Show me the attempts made by politicians bent on a certain ideology that deters honest citizen's 2nd ammendment rights to own a gun, and I am against it. It isas simple as that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 AM on 04/08/2009
- deanfv I'm a Fan of deanfv 13 fans permalink

Let's ban all guns that look mean. Ignore the caliber but if it looks like an assault weapon, OUTLAW it.

That will fix everything.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 04/08/2009
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I think that is a great idea. Ban ugly guns, NOW!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 AM on 04/08/2009
- loria I'm a Fan of loria 152 fans permalink
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We agree on something. Assault rifles and automatic weapons are ugly guns and we should ban them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:38 AM on 04/08/2009
- loria I'm a Fan of loria 152 fans permalink
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Tell us the purpose of an assualt weapon. It's used to kill a lot of people very quickly and is perfectly suited to war. Why does anyone else need one?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 AM on 04/08/2009
- MaxBob I'm a Fan of MaxBob 44 fans permalink
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I expect these type incidences and tragedies will occur more frequently as economic conditions worsen. Desperation sets in. Inflaming calls for more gun control is not the answer. Bailing out big companies over taxpayer's that are losing their livelihoods doesn't help either.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:27 AM on 04/08/2009
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The NRA loves it when the people feel a threat to gun ownership. The price goes up and more of thier "product" is sold . That is the ultimate goal. They could care less about the welfare of the country or the people that buy the "product" they are lobbying for. They scare and incite people to buy thier product.. There should be restrictions on lobbyists like the NRA instaed of guns.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 AM on 04/08/2009

Your opposition to their lobbying just shows how much we need it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 AM on 04/08/2009

The NRA is an advocate for safe gun handling. They represent the honest gun owners of the country. Good thing, also. Because it looks like the government is going to be attempting to take away our rights to own a gun very soon. Then, the old antage "When guns are outlawed only criminals will have guns" will come true. And this is NOT a good thing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:35 AM on 04/08/2009
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The NRA is an irresponsible far-right-wing fringe group that is focused on eliminating all restrictions on guns and their ownership.
The NRA is a prime source of misinformation and disinformation about gun laws and gun control.

The US Constitution is very clear on the right to own guns, but the courts have long ago ruled that sensible restrictions---such as licenses and background checks---do not infringe on those rights.

Short of repealing the Second Amendment---which is not going to happen---no one's rights are going to be taken away.

The very fact that you post such utter swill shows how effective the NRA has been in its campaign of Iies and half-truths about gun regulation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:39 AM on 04/08/2009
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Bull. The NRA used to be for safety. it is no longer the case.They, like all other marketers want more of thier products sold and could care less how many are killed because of it. I have no problem with people owning guns but because of the danger of the item, there should be tighter restrictions ,not weaker ones. You have to have a precription from a doctor to get drugs,take driving tests to drive a car, there likewise should be required safety class for gun users. They all kill and there should be every precaution made to ensure they are not used in any way but safe and responsibl­e.The NRA is for the easiest and less restrictive way possible to get thier "product".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 AM on 04/08/2009
- deanfv I'm a Fan of deanfv 13 fans permalink

California doesn't allow assault weapons and has very strict weapons laws. And we almost never have gun related crimes. Ignore those pesky statistics.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:25 AM on 04/08/2009

Yeah, the lack of gun crime in hollywood and silicon valley is because of effective gun laws....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:27 AM on 04/08/2009
- VPN I'm a Fan of VPN 109 fans permalink
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What, a gun shot disturbing the nighttime quiet of South Central, LA, never!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 04/08/2009
- rockyb26 I'm a Fan of rockyb26 129 fans permalink
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south central L.A. is still in california, right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 04/08/2009
- EarthToZoey I'm a Fan of EarthToZoey 227 fans permalink
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He's cracking a joke. :P

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 AM on 04/08/2009
- loria I'm a Fan of loria 152 fans permalink
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CA does have strick laws and possession of a firearm without the permit to own one is a felony. A crime with a gun has a mandatory two year enhancement. I was shocked when I moved to SC and found that having a gun in a care (permit or no) was perfectly acceptable. The state I live in has a higher per capita rate of violent crimes than CA or any other state in the country, and despite living in a small city we hear about shootings several times a week.

I prefer the tighter regulations and am always left to wonder why anyone NEEDS an automatic weapon. There sole purpose is to shoot a lot of people very fast.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 AM on 04/08/2009
- ChangeNow I'm a Fan of ChangeNow 2 fans permalink
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Automatic weapons were essentially banned in 1934. They still are. None were used in any of the recent shootings.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:38 AM on 04/08/2009
- Amalek I'm a Fan of Amalek 108 fans permalink
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You live in South Carolina. Notice anything else about these people other than they shoot each other a lot? Observe and you will realize it is not the laws.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:39 AM on 04/08/2009
- Dimensio I'm a Fan of Dimensio 21 fans permalink

Kentucky arguably has fewer firearms restrictions than do either California or South Carolina, and it also consistently has a lower homicide rate than either state. Have you considered that there may exist factors that affect homicide rates far more significantly than do firearms restrictions? Additionally, are you unaware that fully automatic firearms are heavily restricted by federal law, and that they are rarely, if ever, criminally misused?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:58 AM on 04/08/2009
- Boboday555 I'm a Fan of Boboday555 116 fans permalink
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Cops want stricter gun control laws.
The GOP and NRA want looser laws.

Why does the NRA and the GOP hate cops and their families?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:25 AM on 04/08/2009
- Dimensio I'm a Fan of Dimensio 21 fans permalink

Your inquires are based upon unsubstantiated and vague assertions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:53 AM on 04/08/2009
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One thing that is apalling about the whole argument; Most of the people involved in the shootings are American Citizens. Ignorance in high places is a real problem. Laws that are outdated and unenforcable are a prime example od that ignorance. The creation of super citezens is another example. To suggest that the cops that were killed in Oakland were more valuable to Americans than the kid that was shot in the back of the head by an Oakland Transit Cop is wrong, whether it is suggested by media, politicians or otherwise. They were all americans killed by people that had no business with access to deadly force.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 AM on 04/08/2009
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Citizens that is......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 AM on 04/08/2009
- felisa11 I'm a Fan of felisa11 23 fans permalink

Today in the Tennessee Assembly, they will vote if guns can be allowed on Collge Campus.

The vote is expected to pass.

Don't worry, I have already contacted lots of members, they don't return calls. They couldn't care less. Our only hope is the Bredsen won't sign the bill. I'm tired of these hillbillies, thinking about relocating, but someone has to watch them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 AM on 04/08/2009
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hmm. Tired of hillbillies? Another other racial or ethnic group you are tired of?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 04/08/2009
- Boboday555 I'm a Fan of Boboday555 116 fans permalink
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Yeah, republicans.
Oops, that's the same thing as hillbillies right RumpledForeSkin?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 AM on 04/08/2009
- All in All I'm a Fan of All in All 62 fans permalink

Hopefully their only talking about "Stun-Guns" only!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 AM on 04/08/2009
- ChangeNow I'm a Fan of ChangeNow 2 fans permalink
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"campus carry" is a disaster waiting to happen.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:41 AM on 04/08/2009
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This is happening in Tennessee because the GOP has taken control of the legislature.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 AM on 04/08/2009
- Dimensio I'm a Fan of Dimensio 21 fans permalink

Please justify your assertion. Cite examples from states already allowing "campus carry", such as Utah.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 AM on 04/08/2009
- rockyb26 I'm a Fan of rockyb26 129 fans permalink
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FoX News is culpable as well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:23 AM on 04/08/2009
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So are you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 AM on 04/08/2009
- rockyb26 I'm a Fan of rockyb26 129 fans permalink
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ok

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 AM on 04/08/2009
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Fox "News" needs to be outlawed..­..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 AM on 04/08/2009
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Good point. I thinks news outlets should have to be certified by a government agency before they are allowed to broadcast.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:25 AM on 04/08/2009
- NWRICK I'm a Fan of NWRICK 273 fans permalink
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Regardless of your opinion on gun control, I think this is a discussion we need to have?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:22 AM on 04/08/2009
- rockyb26 I'm a Fan of rockyb26 129 fans permalink
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agreed

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:22 AM on 04/08/2009
- MaxBob I'm a Fan of MaxBob 44 fans permalink
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It's been debated for over 200 years, just more frequently lately.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:22 AM on 04/08/2009
- ToL1 I'm a Fan of ToL1 14 fans permalink
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Good point, NWRICK.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:23 AM on 04/08/2009
- Boboday555 I'm a Fan of Boboday555 116 fans permalink
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“But guns are a tradition in this country!!!”
Blah, blah, blah...so were arranged marriages, and slavery but we moved passed them.

The bottom line is the rest of the world is passing us by.
The rest of the world is killing us technology-wise and they’re doing it with incredibly tough gun laws.
Its time we move on from a culture of guns to one of books and science.
The day of the hillbilly is over and good riddance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 AM on 04/08/2009
- SouPro I'm a Fan of SouPro 9 fans permalink
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Ah of course! If it weren't for our loose gun laws GM would still be the leading auto producer in the world! Never mind we climbed to the only-hegemon status with the 2nd Amendment in place. But now that we face decline it's all the fault of an irrelevant (and according to you) out dated Amendment to our Constitution.

Clearly we need to move from a culture that bans the quartering of soldiers in peace times because countries without this law are passing us technologically.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 AM on 04/08/2009
- Dimensio I'm a Fan of Dimensio 21 fans permalink

What relevance have "hillbillies" to the current subject of discussion?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:55 AM on 04/08/2009
- rr52 I'm a Fan of rr52 8 fans permalink
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I'm sick of the way gun ownership has been politicized in this country no differently than global warming. The NRA and gun lobbyists show up in force every election to resurrect the issue of liberals vs. conservatives relative to gun ownership. To end this once and for all we should have a gun census. When our forefathers wrote that into the Constitution this country was still half wild. I understand farms and homes in the country having shotguns and rifles because of predatory animals, hunting, and lack of neighbors, but city dwellers owning guns with close neighbors and police nearby? Assault weapons are just what their name intends. The argument that violence will not stop just because there are no guns is a crock. My husband is manic depressive. He and other bi-polars should never own hand guns. Hand guns are his first choice. Never has he gone to reach for a shotgun or rifle, but the others...w­ell, that's why I've hid them. Unbalanced people with lack of control should never own a gun. And Americans don't have self discipline just look at us. We're fat, and probably have more addictions than anyone else. During this financial crisis our lack of discipline for spending beyond our means and instant gratification is evident worldwide. We feel we can do whatever we want, whenever we want but when something runs amok we shirk responsibility for it. We simply are not model citizens for gun ownership. I've seen it first hand!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:20 AM on 04/08/2009
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