Gun Permits: What The Latest Mass Killings Have In Common

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DEBORAH HASTINGS | 04/ 7/09 07:43 PM | AP

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FILE - This file image provided by News 10 Now in Syracuse, N.Y. on Monday April 6, 2009 shows Jiverly Wong's gun permit. A letter that included three photos, a gun permit and Wong's driver's license was mailed to News 10 Now and postmarked Friday April 3, the day Wong killed 13 people before taking his own life in the American Civic Association community center in Binghamton, N.Y. There have been seven rampages that have claimed 53 lives since March 10 in this country, and nearly every gunman in this month-long series of mass killings was legally entitled to wield the weapons he opened fire with. (AP Photo/News 10 Now)

They had more in common than unleashing carnage _ nearly every gunman in this monthlong series of mass killings was legally entitled to fire his weapons.

So what does that say about the state of gun control laws in this country? One thing appears certain: the regulations aren't getting stricter. Many recent efforts to change weapons laws have been about easing them.

Despite eight rampages that have claimed 57 lives since March 10, "it hasn't sparked any national goal to deal with this epidemic. In fact, it's going the other way," said Scott Vogel of the Freedom States Alliance, a gun control activist group.

Even President Barack Obama has felt that sway. Last month, 65 House Democrats said they would block any attempt to resurrect an expired federal ban against assault weapons.

The pro-gun Democrats, led by Rep. Mike Ross of Arkansas, wrote Attorney General Eric Holder saying they opposed not only a ban on military-style guns, but also efforts "to pass any similar law."

Gun control issues would only produce "a long and divisive fight," they said, at a time when Congress should be focused on the roiling economy.

A few states are trying to loosen gun restrictions. In the Texas Capitol _ where legislators can carry guns _ bills easily passed the Senate in recent weeks that would allow employees to bring weapons to work as long as they leave them locked in their cars, and let those packing heat off the legal hook if they walked into a bar that didn't have signs saying guns weren't allowed inside.

The state also is considering allowing students licensed to carry a concealed weapon _ there are about 300,000 such adults in Texas _ to bring guns on campus.

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Kansas plans to put a measure on its 2010 ballot that would rewrite the state constitution to make gun ownership a personal, rather than collective, right. In Tennessee, lawmakers made progress this month toward allowing guns to be carried in state and local parks.

"I think you're seeing a continuing change of culture," Vogel said. "I think the gun lobby wants to take away any stigma to gun ownership. I think they feel emboldened, like who's going to stop them?"

The National Rifle Association, the country's most powerful gun lobbying group, declined to comment this week on gun control laws. "Now is not the time to debate politics or discuss policy. It is time for families and communities to grieve and to heal," it said in a prepared statement.

Groups such as Vogel's, and the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, say existing laws are already too weak _ just look at the men who received gun permits, legally bought high-powered weapons, and then mowed down family, friends and total strangers in these past few weeks, they say.

Joining their outrage was the U.S. Conference of Mayors. "How many more gun-related acts of violence must we experience before the nation's leaders will decide that it is time to act?" asked president Manuel Diaz, mayor of Miami.

Gun enthusiasts say there is no way to prevent human beings from committing insane acts _ whether they have a gun permit or not. And studies conflict on whether stricter gun laws lessen gun violence.

On Friday, a depressed and angry Jiverly Wong used a 9 mm and .45-caliber handgun to kill 13 immigrants and service center employees in Binghamton, N.Y., police said. Earlier that day, the ethnic Chinese immigrant from Vietnam mailed an envelope to a Syracuse television station. In it were his gun permit, photos of him smiling while hoisting shiny, big handguns, and his driver's license.

Questions have been raised over the upstate New York gun permit issued to Wong in 1997. Two years later, he was reported to state police by an informer who claimed Wong was planning a bank heist to feed a crack-cocaine habit. Unlike other areas of the state, including New York City, Wong's Broome County permit did not have to be renewed.

Local authorities, however, have broad discretion in reviewing and revoking such permits, according to legal experts. Especially when it comes to drug use, criminal behavior and violence.

"In retrospect, this is probably not a guy who should have had a gun," said attorney Jeffrey Chamberlain, a former Rochester prosecutor and chief counsel to the New York State Police. "No one likes to see things fall through the cracks and it looks like this guy fell through the cracks."

Binghamton police chief Joseph Zikuski said Tuesday that no robbery occurred and there was no merit to review Wong's gun permit.

In New York City, gun permits are reissued every three years.

Yet, regulations differ only slightly between states, Chamberlain said. "They're fairly typical _ don't be a felon, don't be a drunk, don't beat your kids or your wife. Don't be so mentally unbalanced that you need be in an institution."

To Chamberlain, the answer to gun violence lies not in stricter regulations, but in answering the question, "Why are we so tolerant of having guns in this country? The answer to that is historical. We've had guns for a very long time.

"I can't think of any sweeping law change that would address that."

To Vogel, the answer to why atrocities happen in places such as Binghamton, and before that Washington state and Santa Clara, Calif., lies in sheer numbers.

The number 280 million, to be precise, the estimated total of every gun in this country.

"When you have that many guns, those guns are going to be used in horrific ways," Vogel said. "There's just too many. Inevitably, somehow, some way, those weapons are going to be used in an egregious way."

They had more in common than unleashing carnage _ nearly every gunman in this monthlong series of mass killings was legally entitled to fire his weapons. So what does that say about the state of gun ...
They had more in common than unleashing carnage _ nearly every gunman in this monthlong series of mass killings was legally entitled to fire his weapons. So what does that say about the state of gun ...
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Let's see, legal gun owners get angry go on killing sprees and some folks holler "don't mess with my second amendment rights." One guy gets arrested for trying to set off a shoe bomb on a plane and in the aftermath everybody who flies now has to take off their shoes, coats, and Lord knows what else for the foreseeable future. The actions of one man put restrictions on the rest of us in the name of fighting terrorism. Well what do you call these random killing sprees? They all appear to be acts of domestic terrorism. So where is the legal protection for citizens who are exposed to the people who own any of the 200 million hand guns, both legally and illegally, that are circulating around the country? Even in the Old West, there were towns where everybody had to turn in their guns to the sheriff within the town limits. And no, everybody doesn't need to be armed because then you would have more than one fool shooting at one another not knowing if they were shooting at a perpetrator or another citizen trying to defend themselves. Maybe the solution is flintlocks because these were the weapons of the day back in 1787. One shot at a time could be the answer to the problem. Of course with 200 milliom guns already on the street the horse is out of the barn, so there may not be a solution after all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:19 AM on 04/08/2009
- Garrett123 I'm a Fan of Garrett123 8 fans permalink

The argument that having a gun will protect you is ridiculous it will only endanger you. If anyone has been mugged at gunpoint you will know that a gun will not stop the mugging. The reason for this is the mugger has gotten the drop on you and has a gun already pointed at you. Maybe you can shoot the mugger in the back when he has already taken your money but I don't call that protection

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:18 AM on 04/08/2009
- rampage I'm a Fan of rampage 199 fans permalink
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When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 AM on 04/08/2009
- nobozos I'm a Fan of nobozos 13 fans permalink

What are you, 12?
That bumper sticker went it's merry way 20 years ago - thanfully.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:20 AM on 04/08/2009
- rampage I'm a Fan of rampage 199 fans permalink
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Read your post again. You think your smart?
You ask if I am 12, and in the next sentence you post that the slogan I used is 20 years old.
When I was 12 my math was better than yours is now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 AM on 04/08/2009
- All in All I'm a Fan of All in All 63 fans permalink

That's mostly true, however no one is advocating "outlawing" guns in whole............

Stop the cycle of blindness!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:20 AM on 04/08/2009
- Borborigny I'm a Fan of Borborigny 6 fans permalink
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Speak for yourself, friend. Many people are advocating outlawing guns. Ask around.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:37 AM on 04/08/2009
- ToL1 I'm a Fan of ToL1 14 fans permalink
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And that is part of the problem. The people who are committing these crimes will find ways to get these weapons whether they are legal or not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 AM on 04/08/2009
- rampage I'm a Fan of rampage 199 fans permalink
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That is 100% correct.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:22 AM on 04/08/2009
- loria I'm a Fan of loria 158 fans permalink
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No one wants to outlaw guns, just certain types of them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 AM on 04/08/2009
- rampage I'm a Fan of rampage 199 fans permalink
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Agreed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:22 AM on 04/08/2009
- Dimensio I'm a Fan of Dimensio 22 fans permalink

Which "types" of firearms should be "outlawed", and why should they be "outlawed"?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 AM on 04/08/2009
- liminal67 I'm a Fan of liminal67 3 fans permalink

What a sad reflection on our society...

http://pitchbendpost.blogspot.com/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 AM on 04/08/2009
- vesaversa1 I'm a Fan of vesaversa1 18 fans permalink
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I'm guessing these Democrats who oppose any new gun laws in this country are waiting to see a few more mass killing before changing thier tune . With the help of Fox news the democrats should Stay tune because these mass killing are going to happen over and over again .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 AM on 04/08/2009
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Why was the term "legally entitled" put in quotes on the headline? I suppose if it wasn't in quotes it would just say what it's supposed to say, that Americans are legally entitled to own guns. No I don't own a single gun. I don't want one and don't need one but as of now we are constitutionally allowed to have guns.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 AM on 04/08/2009
- MaxBob I'm a Fan of MaxBob 48 fans permalink
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The government doesn't 'allow' us to have guns. It's a RIGHT affirmed by the 2nd Amendment. Just like the rest of the BILL OF RIGHTS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:20 AM on 04/08/2009
- Jaczar I'm a Fan of Jaczar 3 fans permalink

Someone breaking into my home at 3 am. Call 911? When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Actually I live in rural America. The law is between 15 and 30 mins. away depending upon what's going on in the county at that particular time. Give me an "assault weapon" for self-defense anytime and you keep the cops.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:15 AM on 04/08/2009
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If you can pass the background check, MMPI, and be responsible if your weapon is stolen or diverted; more power to ya.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:18 AM on 04/08/2009
- NWRICK I'm a Fan of NWRICK 324 fans permalink
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That is the biggest point, I think. Stolen weapons. No law can address that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 AM on 04/08/2009

As long as you agree to be responsible for any item that is stolen from you and then used in the commission of a crime. It will be interesting to see your auto insurance rates.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 AM on 04/08/2009
- NWRICK I'm a Fan of NWRICK 324 fans permalink
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Good aim with a handgun would work too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:19 AM on 04/08/2009
- VPN I'm a Fan of VPN 114 fans permalink
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Understandable sentiment but seriously, how many scenarios like that have happened in your area in the last 6 months, enough to justify all that can go wrong with being suddenly awakened at 3 AM armed without benefit of being fully awake and clear thinking? ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:23 AM on 04/08/2009
- rockyb26 I'm a Fan of rockyb26 131 fans permalink
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AP just released a story detailing how much ammo the NY guy had with him. it's unbelievable that one person can be this armed and dangerous. what else is all of that stuff for but a massacre?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 AM on 04/08/2009
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Says something about a country that has more regulations on fireworks than guns. Shouldn't this be the same with drugs? After all drugs don't kill people, people kill......We'll be another tribal country like Afghanistan if things keep on going like this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 AM on 04/08/2009
- Boboday555 I'm a Fan of Boboday555 128 fans permalink
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Police Officers Are For Stricter Gun Control Laws!!!

And I'll stick with police over the NRA everytime!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 AM on 04/08/2009
- MaxBob I'm a Fan of MaxBob 48 fans permalink
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Good for you. But, it's a stoopid analogy. Then again, the government is the fastest growing sector of our economy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:23 AM on 04/08/2009
- Boboday555 I'm a Fan of Boboday555 128 fans permalink
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Why do you hate cops?

Ps
And you're wrong...again.
After 30 years of republican lead privatiation, the largest and fastest growing sector of our economy is Health Care.
Now you can pay $135/week in health care premiums only to have your gun shot wound be labeled as "Not Covered Under this Policy!!!

How do people like you sleep at night?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:35 AM on 04/08/2009
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As I have to go pretend to work.

One last nutshell
"regulate the people that own/buy firearms"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 AM on 04/08/2009

That's great. Honest people WILL register their guns, take all of the precautions of gun safety, take all of the safety courses, etc. But then there is the criminal. He doesn't care about the law, or the general welfare and safety of the citizens. Nor will he register his gun. So, the old antage of "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" is not such a good thing anymore.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 AM on 04/08/2009
- justice11 I'm a Fan of justice11 15 fans permalink

Psychological testing sounds alright to me. After reading all the nuts over at fox and gretawire always speaking about their guns and what they'd like to do to our president I'd think this kind of testing would be a very good idea!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:13 AM on 04/08/2009
- MaxBob I'm a Fan of MaxBob 48 fans permalink
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My medical records were reviewed as part of my concealed carry background check. A definite infringement on my privacy, but one I agreed to.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 AM on 04/08/2009

You are still under the assumption that criminals register their guns or buy them from reputable dealers. This is just not true. The registration the psychological testing, all of this is fine for honest folks. The criminal is the one's that we as citizens need to watch out for. That is why I carry my .38 everywhere with me, especially when I travel for work and pleasure.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 AM on 04/08/2009
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What a non-story this is. So what are you saying here, that gun ownership indicates a pre-disposition towards mass murder?
Why don't we tighten automobile driver's licences because of those who drive drunk and commit vehicular homicide?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:13 AM on 04/08/2009
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Should I........................I think I will.


Would you rather run from a drunk in a car or a drunk with a Mac 10?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 AM on 04/08/2009
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hard to run when you're wering your seatbelt

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 AM on 04/08/2009
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It should be obvious that it isn't the people, the guns, or the laws; none of these things have changed. It is the cultural juxtaposition of conservative/GOP fearmongering over gun grabs and the general despair over economic conditions. In each of these situations, the perpetrator had suffered or was threatened with a devastating financial blow, some with close family relationships also endangered. There are historical spikes in violence that happen to occur with economic hard times- that is the common thread of causality. Also, historically, increased restriction on firearms has trended toward prolonging societal peaks in violence. Clinton's Assault Weapon Ban did nothing to curb violence with or without the restricted weapons, but his economic policies generally helped. Address the real problems- poverty and despair.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:12 AM on 04/08/2009
- deanfv I'm a Fan of deanfv 13 fans permalink

We should outlaw guns. Just like Mexico.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:12 AM on 04/08/2009
- rampage I'm a Fan of rampage 199 fans permalink
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We outlawed Mexico?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 AM on 04/08/2009
- ToL1 I'm a Fan of ToL1 14 fans permalink
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We have bans on several types of narcotics, barbiturates, etc. How is that working out? We have declared "war" on drugs since the 80s. Obviously it isn't working. The solution isn't just black and white i.e. outlawing guns.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:18 AM on 04/08/2009
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